Limerick improvement projects

zulutango

sleepyman wrote: »

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Also is it possible for the Council to CPO the old Dunnes Building on Sarsfield St?Seems a big chunk of the Limerick 2030 plan can't kick off until that's demolished.

Dunnes told the Council to feck off and have pretty much scuppered the Limerick 2030 plan (which isn't really a plan at all but an aspirational document for how the city could develop). I don't think you can CPO unless there's a strategic national interest?

Vanquished

sleepyman wrote: »

Does anyone know if work on the Hanging Gardens building on Henry St has resumed?The council bought it last year.
Also is it possible for the Council to CPO the old Dunnes Building on Sarsfield St?Seems a big chunk of the Limerick 2030 plan can't kick off until that's demolished.

Funding has been allocated to finish the hanging gardens development this year but who knows when we'll see machinery and workers back on site. Council projects tend to move painfully slowly. They've also bought the former office interiors warehouse at the corner of Henry Street/Glentworth Street so this is also being integrated in to the overall development site. We'll probably see more office accommodation provided in a new build here.

Vanquished

zulutango wrote: »

Dunnes told the Council to feck off and have pretty much scuppered the Limerick 2030 plan (which isn't really a plan at all but an aspirational document for how the city could develop). I don't think you can CPO unless there's a strategic national interest?

The CPO route allows a council to acquire a site if required for development purposes providing that they have a specific use or purpose planned for that site. I'm not sure if they are still negotiating with Dunnes Stores to acquire it by agreement. Although Dunnes don't have a history of relinquishing property easily. I doubt the council have a firm plan for the site anyhow. However something needs to happen at this stage. It's a dreadful building and has been lying empty, blighting a key approach to the city centre since 2008!

Jofspring

About 2 weeks ago there was a lot of guys in suits with highvis vests and hard hats going in to the hanging gardens. Looked like possible architects, quantity surveyors etc..

Townie_P

zulutango wrote: »

Dunnes told the Council to feck off and have pretty much scuppered the Limerick 2030 plan (which isn't really a plan at all but an aspirational document for how the city could develop). I don't think you can CPO unless there's a strategic national interest?

That would be typical Dunnes. They also own a large prime City Centre unit directly across from Brown Thomas on O'Connell Street. They're so greedy and awkward that they'd rather leave the building idle than let some other retailer have it. They won't let any business that touches on any of their own business in there - so for example if a luxury brand wanted to open a clothing store there they'd refuse to consider it based on the fact that Dunnes sells clothing too (even though their clothing is at the lower end). They've also refused to consider splitting said unit in two even though it could be easily done. There should be laws in place to allow councils to deal with this sort of thing imo.

zulutango

Townie_P wrote: »

That would be typical Dunnes. They also own a large prime City Centre unit directly across from Brown Thomas on O'Connell Street. They're so greedy and awkward that they'd rather leave the building idle than let some other retailer have it. They won't let any business that touches on any of their own business in there - so for example if a luxury brand wanted to open a clothing store there they'd refuse to consider it based on the fact that Dunnes sells clothing too (even though their clothing is at the lower end). They've also refused to consider splitting said unit in two even though it could be easily done. There should be laws in place to allow councils to deal with this sort of thing imo.

I'm really hoping the Vacant Sites Levy, which is coming in the the next year or two, will give them a kick on the arse.

Poxyshamrock

Work has started on the extension to the MIC campus on O'Connell Avenue. It's nice to see Mount St Vincent getting a new lease of life. It'll be handy to be able to cut through from South Circular Road to O'Connell Avenue too! :pac:

MIC Expands its Footprint onto Limerick’s O’Connell Avenue

Mary Immaculate College is set to expand its footprint onto Limerick’s O’Connell Avenue with the redevelopment of the former Mount complex, on the South Circular Road, giving the College a physical imprint that will extend from the Dock Road to the main city thoroughfare.

Building works commenced earlier this week on the former Sisters of Mercy Mount Convent Complex, a landmark 19th Century building which is adjacent to the College and covers approximately 4000 square metres.

The redeveloped building, scheduled to be opened in September, will be named as the John Henry Newman Campus in honour of the Nineteenth Century priest, Cardinal and now Blessed, and author of the seminal work ‘The Idea of the University’ and who preached a mission in St Michael’s Church in Limerick for the establishment of the Mount as an orphanage.

The John Henry Newman Campus will be refurbished to the highest specification as a fit-for-purpose research and postgraduate facility, bringing all postgraduate activities together into one space and significantly advancing provision in this area.

From a strategic perspective, the extension of the estate will bring the campus footprint onto O’Connell Avenue, the main city thoroughfare, raising the profile of the College as a prominent physical feature of Limerick City and, more importantly, as integral to the currency of the wider community.

This redevelopment coincides with Limerick City and County Council’s new plans to transform O’Connell Street as part of an urban centre revitalisation project. Senior Executive Planner Kieran Reeves recently spoke of how the redevelopment of O’Connell Street would “join up a whole lot of other things, from Mary I, down to the Opera site and down to City Hall. This is going to be the new spine [of the city] and it is a fantastic opportunity”.

More ambitious plans are afoot at Mary Immaculate College to build a new, technologically advanced and future-proofed Library Building at the heart of the campus which will further support the quality of the student experience at MIC. This project also took a major step forward in recent days with the completion of an EU–wide procurement process, which led to the appointment by Mary Immaculate College of a Design Team led by Scott Tallon Walker Architects. The appointed team have commenced the design work which will lead to the submission of a Planning Application in the coming months.

These ambitious capital projects will provide for the increased student numbers at MIC, which rose by 16% in 2015 bringing the student body to in excess of 3,500. This upward traction of student numbers is set to increase as a result of the forthcoming incorporation of St. Patrick’s College, Thurles, to be renamed as MIC, St. Patrick’s Campus, Thurles. As a result of this incorporation, which will take place formally in July 2016, Mary Immaculate College will become a multi-campus institution offering nine undergraduate degree programmes in Education and the Liberal Arts, as well as a wide range of Continuing Professional Development offerings for teachers and numerous postgraduate opportunities to Masters and PhD level. This development will consolidate the position of MIC as the most significant provider of initial teacher education outside of Dublin and the largest institution operating independently in Ireland as a specialist provider of prestigious, high quality programmes for those wishing to become professional teachers at primary and secondary levels.

Speaking on these recent developments Prof. Michael A Hayes, President of MIC said “these plans are very much consistent with the College’s Strategic Plan 2012-2016. One of the pillars of the College’s Strategic Plan sets out to enhance the College’s learning environment and provide a workplace of the highest quality. Another aims to improve the quality of Mary Immaculate College’s postgraduate student experience. These recent strategically important developments are further testament to our growing confidence as an institution.”

gryff

zulutango wrote: »

Dunnes told the Council to feck off and have pretty much scuppered the Limerick 2030 plan (which isn't really a plan at all but an aspirational document for how the city could develop). I don't think you can CPO unless there's a strategic national interest?

This site would be ideal IMO for the new city library. They recently received 2 million euro funding to initiate this project. I think it would be hard for Dunnes to argue that people borrowing books would interfere with their business/sales.

Poxyshamrock

gryff wrote: »

This site would be ideal IMO for the new city library. They recently received 2 million euro funding to initiate this project. I think it would be hard for Dunnes to argue that people borrowing books would interfere with their business/sales.

If people are reading then they can't be shopping. More people reading means less people buying stuff in Dunnes. It would be disastrous for their business.

theblackstuff

An Taisce have objected to planning for LIT campus at Coonagh, says it will be bad for city centre... here we go again!!!
Limerick a place where any development has to be stopped...

planning objections http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/202791/Objection-to-new-Limerick-Institute-of.html

by the way, an taisce lodged an appeal against Regeneron, and other office developments around the city which the later withdrew, timewasters...

dave 27

How is this able to get stalled? So they are saying there's adequate room in the centre of town to build a massive college campus in an existing site? It's not even retail it's just a campus, this is the reason things don't get built

Vanquished

theblackstuff wrote: »

An Taisce have objected to planning for LIT campus at Coonagh, says it will be bad for city centre... here we go again!!!
Limerick a place where any development has to be stopped...

planning objections http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/202791/Objection-to-new-Limerick-Institute-of.html

by the way, an taisce lodged an appeal against Regeneron, and other office developments around the city which the later withdrew, timewasters...

To be fair they lodged an objection to the Regeneron development on the grounds that there was insufficient provision made for those who would walk or cycle to work. Not enough bike parking, shelters, showers etc. The applicants were then required to prepare a mobility plan detailing how employees would travel to the plant, exploring ways of promoting the use of public transport and reducing car dependancy etc.

Hardly an unreasonable request given that a couple of hundred people would be travelling there every day.

The Coonagh Cross submission isn't without foundation either. That whole project dating back to 2006 or so has been a complete disaster. A development of that nature was never warranted and should never have been built in such an unsuitable location way out on the edge of the city! Just like Parkway Valley we've been left with an ugly scar on the approach to Limerick for the last seven or eight years!

Cookiemunster

Vanquished wrote: »

The Coonagh Cross submission isn't without foundation either. That whole project dating back to 2006 or so has been a complete disaster. A development of that nature was never warranted and should never have been built in such an unsuitable location way out on the edge of the city! Just like Parkway Valley we've been left with an ugly scar on the approach to Limerick for the last seven or eight years!

What has any of this got to do with the LIT plan? The Coonagh center is already there and it's an eyesore. I agree is should never have been built, but it's not going anywhere. LIT need more space it's available literally down the road from their campus. The an taisce objection is a joke. It will be years before any building work is done on the opera center.

And I'd also point out that the then city council opposed this and the Parkway Valley developments, but the county council was more interested in its own rates than the city center.

sioda

Ah for fùck sake a precision engineering course needs space something the city centre can't give Lit have already ifrc gotten on board with the multiple education campus on the opera site. Objecting to this is ridiculous adds more to the area uses already vacant/derelict building an taisce need to cop on to themselves tbh

Vanquished

Cookiemunster wrote: »

What has any of this got to do with the LIT plan? The Coonagh center is already there and it's an eyesore. I agree is should never have been built, but it's not going anywhere. LIT need more space it's available literally down the road from their campus. The an taisce objection is a joke. It will be years before any building work is done on the opera center.

And I'd also point out that the then city council opposed this and the Parkway Valley developments, but the county council was more interested in its own rates than the city center.

Then what exactly is the point in committing to a presence in the "opera" site? There's plenty of space for an education facility there. LIT are planning a significant sports complex on the Coonagh Cross site. Why not relocate all sports activities there and develop the new engineering facility on the current pitches?! Or on the completely underutilised area between the Millennium theatre and Thomond Park. Decamping a whole faculty along with a couple of hundred students to a converted shopping mall on a poorly serviced site right on the edge of the city is a strange move in my book!

By the way I'm fully aware of the history of Coonagh Cross and Parkway Valley. It's all the more pertinent to remind ourselves of the bulls*it circumstances under which they were built when we're left to find alternative uses for pathetically ill-advised developments!

Jofspring

Can't see any foundation for stopping LIT campus. If anything a bigger campus will mean more students. More students in Limerick will be beneficial no? LIT is a lot closer to town than UL also so there should be a decent flow of students into the centre. It will be a lot better than the current eyesore also.

The only issue I would have is housing if the institute gets bigger. Are there provisions for more student accomodation to be built?

I was only thinking more about the centre the other day. We need need more people living in the centre full stop. This whinging about out of town shopping centres or more companies need to be forced into town is pretty much a non runner. If you want more people using in the businesses in town then there needs to be a reason for them to be in town. Living in the city centre would surely be a huge reason for people to use the businesses there. More apartments and renovate the Georgian buildings into town houses or apartments and you are pushing up the centres population immeasurably. A lot of people would love to live in the city but can't due to lack of accomodation. The city council needs to think outside the box. Surely the €10m+ that is going on a bridge that is not needed would be better spent on renovating building in the city centre.

elastico

zulutango wrote: »

I'm really hoping the Vacant Sites Levy, which is coming in the the next year or two, will give them a kick on the arse.

If they opened a Santa's Grotto or Art exhibition once a year they would probably keep the council off their case.

Cookiemunster

Vanquished wrote: »

Then what exactly is the point in committing to a presence in the "opera" site? There's plenty of space for an education facility there. LIT are planning a significant sports complex on the Coonagh Cross site. Why not relocate all sports activities there and develop the new engineering facility on the current pitches?! Or on the completely underutilised area between the Millennium theatre and Thomond Park. Decamping a whole faculty along with a couple of hundred students to a converted shopping mall on a poorly serviced site right on the edge of the city is a strange move in my book!

When will there be plenty of space in the opera site? Because as far as I can there are no concrete proposals or plans for the site. It's years away from being built. They can move into the Coonagh site immediately.

And where are you getting the info that they're planning on moving their sports to Coonagh? It's the first I've heard about this.
EDIT the only reference I've found is this line in the leader article New cafes will be opened along with sporting facilities for the students. Thats a long way from a significant new sports complex.

zulutango

Jofspring wrote: »

Can't see any foundation for stopping LIT campus. If anything a bigger campus will mean more students. More students in Limerick will be beneficial no? LIT is a lot closer to town than UL also so there should be a decent flow of students into the centre. It will be a lot better than the current eyesore also.

The only issue I would have is housing if the institute gets bigger. Are there provisions for more student accomodation to be built?

I was only thinking more about the centre the other day. We need need more people living in the centre full stop. This whinging about out of town shopping centres or more companies need to be forced into town is pretty much a non runner. If you want more people using in the businesses in town then there needs to be a reason for them to be in town. Living in the city centre would surely be a huge reason for people to use the businesses there. More apartments and renovate the Georgian buildings into town houses or apartments and you are pushing up the centres population immeasurably. A lot of people would love to live in the city but can't due to lack of accomodation. The city council needs to think outside the box. Surely the €10m+ that is going on a bridge that is not needed would be better spent on renovating building in the city centre.

I'm 100% in agreement with your third paragraph, but I'm confused by your first one! The LIT plan is going to pull life out of the city. I think Coonagh Cross is just as far away from the city as UL is, and that's not a good thing if we're trying to breath life into the city centre.

Jofspring

UL is around 5-6km from town but not very direct. Coonagh is around 3-4km but it is a direct road in. On a bus you could get from Coonagh to Town in 10minutes or less but UL you would probably be talking 20-30mins. LIT is closer again and the bus stop into town is only 5 minutes from the centre so if students were interchanging between Coonagh Campus and LIT then town would be fairly close. As a student you could actually live in town (if the accomodation was there) and attend the Coonagh campus, by bus, very easily and pretty quick time wise. Better again throw a cycle lane in the whole way out the Ennis road and you have a safe direct cycle lane out to the campus (not to mention they could use Condell bike lane). Even better again slap in a Coca Cola bike station out in Coonagh, the Jetland and LIT. You have a nice little link then. Happy days, all our problems are solved. Easy peasy

On the sports section I actually thought that was the main reason it was going to Coonagh with plans for Astor Turf pitches, grass pitches, gym etc...

Vanquished

Cookiemunster wrote: »

When will there be plenty of space in the opera site? Because as far as I can there are no concrete proposals or plans for the site. It's years away from being built. They can move into the Coonagh site immediately.

Many designs concept have been developed for the "opera" site including educational accommodation along the Michael Street side. Yes it's taking an infuriatingly long time but a joint venture with a development partner is to be secured this year. Would it not be advisable to wait slightly longer for a potentially superior solution rather than jumping at another option because it happens to be available in a shorter timeframe?

And where are you getting the info that they're planning on moving their sports to Coonagh? It's the first I've heard about this.
EDIT the only reference I've found is this line in the leader article New cafes will be opened along with sporting facilities for the students. Thats a long way from a significant new sports complex.

A Limerick Leader article is the hardly the most reliable source of information! A quick search for their development plan will show you exactly what they are hoping to develop. 5 pitches and associated facilities. Quite similar to what UL built on the north bank of the Shannon.

Cookiemunster

Vanquished wrote: »

A Limerick Leader article is the hardly the most reliable source of information! A quick search for their development plan will show you exactly what they are hoping to develop. 5 pitches and associated facilities. Quite similar to what UL built on the north bank of the Shannon.

I wasn't aware of that, but on reading it I see that the Coonagh plan is from 2012. So while they only went ahead with the deal recently, it's been in planning for 4 years as part of their overall campus development. Long before the commitment to the Opera center. I'll link the full document. They also have a map of proposed cycle routes on page 183.

Jofspring

If they do build those pitches at Coonagh Cross then it really opens up the current LIT site for expansion. They have huge land out the back.

Cookiemunster

On reading more of the LIT development plans I see that there are a few city center developments planned.

Irish Fashion Incubator Limerick - (IFIL)
A currently vacant retail premises is being purchased, and will be
re-purposed as a City Centre Education and Enterprise Incubation
Hub, with IFIL as the primary occupant of the building

LSAD Quadrangle
Building on the proven international success of the School of Art
and Design (LSAD) this project will create a series of 15 additional
learning, social and civic spaces which will bring new life to a
collection of century-old protected buildings


Food Development / Tourism, Hospitality & Culinary Arts
This innovative scheme will incorporate: new teaching kitchens,
multiple teaching spaces, a Research Centre for Tourism and
Hospitality including product development, a food and nutrition
laboratory. This facility will create a new food orientated destination
for the city centre.

Student Accommodation
The design will provide a home from home for Limerick based
Higher Education students in a new city settlement. The project
consists of study bedrooms designed for a wide range of students,
from fresher to postgraduate and international.

The last 2 seem to be in the Opera Center, but aren't due till after 2020.

Anyone who thinks they are ignoring the city center by expanding to Coonagh needs to read the document. I'd suggest someone from An Taisce read it too.

Vanquished

Cookiemunster wrote: »

On reading more of the LIT development plans I see that there are a few city center developments planned.


The last 2 seem to be in the Opera Center, but aren't due till after 2020.

Anyone who thinks they are ignoring the city center by expanding to Coonagh needs to read the document. I'd suggest someone from An Taisce read it too.

There's no suggestion they're "ignoring" the city centre. How could they be when they already have a considerable presence there already! The point is that Coonagh Cross is a peripheral and not very attractive site on a dual carriageway at the edge of the city. Significant linkages will be required to improve its accessability and connectivity. Especially compared to their other campus locations.

The fashion incubator is to be developed in the former Instore furniture building on Ellen Street. They seem to have set up temporarily at Lock Quay for the moment. Hopefully they'll get cracking on the permanent premises shortly. It's looking pretty shabby now with broken windows etc.

Cookiemunster

Vanquished wrote: »

There's no suggestion they're "ignoring" the city centre. How could they be when they already have a considerable presence there already! The point is that Coonagh Cross is a peripheral and not very attractive site on a dual carriageway at the edge of the city. Significant linkages will be required to improve its accessability and connectivity. Especially compared to their other campus locations.

The fashion incubator is to be developed in the former Instore furniture building on Ellen Street. They seem to have set up temporarily at Lock Quay for the moment. Hopefully they'll get cracking on the permanent premises shortly. It's looking pretty shabby now with broken windows etc.

It's hardly out in the middle of nowhere. It's next to a huge residential area and will soon be linked to Moyross by the Coonagh-Knockalisheen Distributor Road, which is currently out to tender. And believe it or not being right next to the N18 dual cariage way, the Condell Rd and the Ennis Rd is excellent connectivity. There's a cycle path on the Condell Rd to and from the city center. The 343 bus stops outside the Greenhills which is next door. What more do you want?

timesnewroman

I'd tend to side with An Taisce on this one. I'd love to see LIT take over the old Golden Vale site (North Circular Road/O'Callaghans Strand). A lovely campus could be developed there and its only a short hop into town. Hell, link the strand with the quays on the other side of the river with a pedestrian bridge (the council seem intent on imposing a pedestrian bridge on us). When the nearby secondary school closes (has it already closed?) that entire block will be vacant.

zulutango

Cookiemunster wrote: »

And believe it or not being right next to the N18 dual cariage way, the Condell Rd and the Ennis Rd is excellent connectivity. There's a cycle path on the Condell Rd to and from the city center. The 343 bus stops outside the Greenhills which is next door. What more do you want?

Car dependent connectivity. Not really a good thing, to be fair.

We're all decrying the fact that UL is so far out of town. We know how massively different and better Limerick would be if it was located in the centre. I don't think there's any arguing with this, is there? We're jealous of Galway and Cork because they have major educational institutions very near the centre. It makes such a massive difference to the vibrancy of a city to have thousands of students and staff milling about the place. There's no denying that.

In an ideal world the outskirts of a city should be for the heavy industry that can't go in the centre. Pretty much everything else should go in the centre. We're not in an ideal world but we should strive for it.

zulutango

timesnewroman wrote: »

I'd tend to side with An Taisce on this one. I'd love to see LIT take over the old Golden Vale site (North Circular Road/O'Callaghans Strand). A lovely campus could be developed there and its only a short hop into town. Hell, link the strand with the quays on the other side of the river with a pedestrian bridge (the council seem intent on imposing a pedestrian bridge on us). When the nearby secondary school closes (has it already closed?) that entire block will vacant.

I'm with you on that. That Cleeves site is ideal for a major development, and a a bridge linking O'Callaghan Strand to Howley's Quay wouldn't be nearly as controversial as the one they have proposed, which is in such a historically sensitive site. Actually, if you made it a City of Culture legacy project and invited international designers to draw it up the council could win a lot of support for it.

Vanquished

zulutango wrote: »

Car dependent connectivity. Not really a good thing, to be fair.

We're all decrying the fact that UL is so far out of town. We know how massively different and better Limerick would be if it was located in the centre. I don't think there's any arguing with this, is there? We're jealous of Galway and Cork because they have major educational institutions very near the centre. It makes such a massive difference to the vibrancy of a city to have thousands of students and staff milling about the place. There's no denying that.

In an ideal world the outskirts of a city should be for the heavy industry that can't go in the centre. Pretty much everything else should go in the centre. We're not in an ideal world but we should strive for it.

That's the point. It's just going to encourage more car commuting and if you don't own a car you're at a distinct disadvantage. I'm not sure how reliable the bus service is on the Caherdavin route but in order to make inter campus movement in any way feasible LIT will have to lay on a shuttle service from Moylish. The long promised Ennis Road and Thomondgate green routes/bus lanes seem to be going nowhere fast. We really need to show more urgency on infrastructural projects like this in order to make public transport more popular and usable.

There's no doubt that having a concentration of students and third level facilities in or near the city centre makes a massive difference. I was working in Cork earlier in the week and the constant ebb and flow of students from UCC to the city centre and vice versa was quite striking. We don't have that level of activity in Limerick and the city centre is the poorer for it. Hopefully we'll see that changing in the coming years.