Connacht vs Munster, Sat 16th April 19.15, Sportsground. Sky Sports 5/TG4

Bazzo · 17-04-2016 9:50pm

I don't get what people think was so harsh about the yellow anyhow. Munster were pinged twice in the previous 2 scrums, there were a few resets and Whitehouse took BOTH front rows aside and said "Any more messing around and someone's getting a card."

Next scrum and Cronin comes out with an incredibly obvious infringement, Whitehouse was dead right to go straight for the card IMO, he just did exactly what he had warned them he would do.

phog · 17-04-2016 10:06pm

WTV's blog of the game

17-04-2016 10:12pm

Is that munster out of the champions cup?

irishbucsfan · 17-04-2016 10:15pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Is that munster out of the champions cup?

Nah, Munster will almost certainly qualify for the Champions Cup unless they lose both their remaining games, which are at home.

former total · 17-04-2016 10:16pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Is that munster out of the champions cup?

Nah. They have Edinburgh at home in two weeks. A win there and they will 99% qualify.

CMOTDibbler · 18-04-2016 6:50am

former total wrote: »

Nah. They have Edinburgh at home in two weeks. A win there and they will 99% qualify.

But that's the worry surely? Edinburgh can run in tries and Munster would need to have their A defence out to stop them. After last weekend, doubts would be strong. It would be a crying shame if they didn't make it. Hopefully the Connacht game will concentrate minds.

Buer · 18-04-2016 6:59am

Edinburgh win, they're going to finish ahead of Munster. They'll just need to beat Cardiff at home in their final game) and a losing BP might even be enough. If the Scarlets get anything from a game against the Dragons in a neutral venue, they're mathematically certain to finish ahead of Munster.

The Edinburgh game is absolutely huge now and close to being a winner takes all.

leakyboots · 18-04-2016 10:49am

Was at the game, first trip back to the Sportgsground in a few years - thought we bossed them for the first half hour, I was in the Clan with all the locals and they were a bit shell-shocked.

It all got away from us then.. and it's down to coaching. One-out balls to fellas going from a standing start... the only time we broke them from 5 yards out playing that way was when Saili ran from deep but ultimately knocked on. He was atrocious, incidentally, constantly crabbing across the pitch, worst match of the season by him for me and he should have been subbed for Conway and Earls to 13 'cos he was getting no change out of Aki. Black mark against Foley. Scannell and Holland had fine games and that gives me hope. Thought TOD was poor, surprisingly, CJ was a marked man. Zebo showed some great stuff in attack but slipped off a couple of tackles.

A word for Ian Keatley... he was snatching at four kicks in a row from his good side during the warmup, awful strike followed by awful strike, walked off to the dressing room shaking his head - he's in the absolute doldrums and shouldn't be played again this season. Get young Johnston on the bench, give Keats the summer off, go see a sports psychologist and/or top kicking coach or let him play backup 12 to Scannell where he can definitely do a job for us. Sad to see a fella at where he is a little over 12 months after turning out for his country.

Congrats to Connacht, they're simply a better-coached team than us, playing the right brand of rugby (even if I think teams will figure them out next season by doing what we did in the first half hour, knowing that they won't kick the ball). A brand of rugby not a million miles away from what Penney was trying (in vain) to turn us onto - he could see where the game was going, the 'traditional' Munster method of play is gone, dead. The sooner we move on from that the better, we just look rudderless.

Real buzz in the Sportsground and they're fans must be loving the rollercoaster - I shook every green hand around me and told them go on and win it, really hope they do.

Two big matches now to secure Champions Cup qualification, team needs us now more than ever. Get in a top class backs coach for next season, ideally Southern Hemisphere who can up our skills level to boot, some marquee signings in key positions and things won't seem so bad.

danganabu · 18-04-2016 11:58am

.ak wrote: »

At the very least he'll influence the refs decision next time that ref has to make a call on Cronin.

he should concentrate on what's really controllable. His players, and not the ref.

Which is it ak? You're tripping over yourself trying to take cheap shots here.

dropping_bombs · 18-04-2016 12:27pm

leakyboots wrote: »

Congrats to Connacht, they're simply a better-coached team than us, playing the right brand of rugby (even if I think teams will figure them out next season by doing what we did in the first half hour, knowing that they won't kick the ball). A brand of rugby not a million miles away from what Penney was trying (in vain) to turn us onto - he could see where the game was going, the 'traditional' Munster method of play is gone, dead. The sooner we move on from that the better, we just look rudderless.

I think the lack of kicking game could change next year. Boshoff, the SA outhalf who is joining Connacht next season, is known primarily as a kicking OH. While I am sure Connacht will maintain their running style of rugby it wouldn't be a surprise to see more territory played next year especially with a seasoned campaigner at OH.

Bazzo · 18-04-2016 12:31pm

dropping_bombs wrote: »

I think the lack of kicking game could change next year. Boshoff, the SA outhalf who is joining Connacht next season, is known primarily as a kicking OH. While I am sure Connacht will maintain their running style of rugby it wouldn't be a surprise to see more territory played next year especially with a seasoned campaigner at OH.

Don't forget Carty has put in some absolute beauts of territorial kicks this season aswell, it's something he's really starting to look good at. His kicking from the tee leaves a lot to be desired but his kicking from hand is getting better and better.

Any team will have to keep evolving or they'll eventually be found out. Pat is good coach and a smart one too, I'm sure they'll have switched up some parts of their game for next season.

thomond2006 · 18-04-2016 12:42pm

leakyboots wrote: »

A word for Ian Keatley... he was snatching at four kicks in a row from his good side during the warmup, awful strike followed by awful strike, walked off to the dressing room shaking his head - he's in the absolute doldrums and shouldn't be played again this season. Get young Johnston on the bench, give Keats the summer off, go see a sports psychologist and/or top kicking coach or let him play backup 12 to Scannell where he can definitely do a job for us. Sad to see a fella at where he is a little over 12 months after turning out for his country.

Johnston's season is over after a dislocated shoulder and Holland went off with a head injury. Munster may have no choice but to start Keatley.

Bazzo · 18-04-2016 12:44pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Johnston's season is over after a dislocated shoulder and Holland went off with a head injury. Munster may have no choice but to start Keatley.

What's the story with Bleyendaal? He can't have played for 3 or 4 months at this stage, and the last I remember hearing(haven't been closely following admittedly) he'd strained his quad in training, how does that translate to 16+ weeks out?

CMOTDibbler · 18-04-2016 1:12pm

Having missed all but the last ten minutes of the game, I watched the highlights just there. The two yellow cards were well deserved. Cronin blatantly pulled Bealham down, it was so blatant that the ref could see it from the other side of the scrum. He had no choice but to give Cronin his marching orders, having just warned the front rows before the scrum. Billy Holland likewise; completely brain dead to flop down on the wrong side of a ruck in the reddest possible zone. It's all very well trying stuff on if you can get away with it, but the risk you take has to be weighed against the possible repercussions if you get it wrong.

Connacht's defence for the Munster tries was pretty poor, but that's Connacht for you and they'll probably only change as they get into the tougher games that Chmpions Cup rugby will bring. No doubt it'll be a bit of a learning curve but they've got the players and coaching staff to help ease them through.

Munster need to get their act together. If they can pull off a win against Edinburgh and make it through to the last six, they'll have time to fix the issues once they get their infrastructural and management issues sorted. By management, I'm talking about the new DOR btw.

Billysays no · 19-04-2016 6:54pm

What the first 30 minutes proved is that Munster can play good rugby. The offload for the zebo try was a beaut. And then for some totally unknown reason they just shut up shop. OK Connacht started to play better but suddenly the quick play just stopped. Do think it was at this time that the Connacht pack came to grips with Munster and once that happened it was one way traffic.

Even if Munster do make the champions cup its seeding will be awful which will make next season just as miserable as this unless something seismic happens.

Foley's beaten expression helps nothing. His expression is much like keatleys these days and doesn't exactly inspire anybody.

.ak · 19-04-2016 10:01pm

danganabu wrote: »

Which is it ak? You're tripping over yourself trying to take cheap shots here.

Are you suggesting the two points are conflicting? Because they're not.

jm08 · 19-04-2016 10:47pm

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Having missed all but the last ten minutes of the game, I watched the highlights just there. The two yellow cards were well deserved. Cronin blatantly pulled Bealham down, it was so blatant that the ref could see it from the other side of the scrum. He had no choice but to give Cronin his marching orders, having just warned the front rows before the scrum. Billy Holland likewise; completely brain dead to flop down on the wrong side of a ruck in the reddest possible zone. It's all very well trying stuff on if you can get away with it, but the risk you take has to be weighed against the possible repercussions if you get it wrong.

Eddie O'Sullivan did some analysis on Against the Head which is contrary to your analysis.

ClanofLams · 20-04-2016 1:02am

jm08 wrote: »

Eddie O'Sullivan did some analysis on Against the Head which is contrary to your analysis.

Eddie also claimed Niyi''s second try was an obvious knock on so I wouldn't put a lot of stock in what he says.

Billysays no · 20-04-2016 1:59am

jm08 wrote: »

Eddie O'Sullivan did some analysis on Against the Head which is contrary to your analysis.

Eddie O'Sullivan and analysis used in same sentance. Lovely :-). He is literally a bitter 'little' man who has failed to achieve any goals in his life and has instead turned to be a bitter pundit. God Munster is full of them. The only pundit from Munster I have any respect for is Tony Ward. At least he appreciates decent rugby.

Buer · 20-04-2016 6:50am

Billysays no wrote: »

The only pundit from Munster I have any respect for is Tony Ward. At least he appreciates decent rugby.

Oh come on.

You're killing me.

jm08 · 20-04-2016 7:27am

Billysays no wrote: »

Eddie O'Sullivan and analysis used in same sentance. Lovely :-). He is literally a bitter 'little' man who has failed to achieve any goals in his life and has instead turned to be a bitter pundit. God Munster is full of them. The only pundit from Munster I have any respect for is Tony Ward. At least he appreciates decent rugby.

I think EOS is Connacht qualified at this stage. he has been living there for well over 3 years now.

Did you look at his analysis anyway?

PS - Tony Ward is from Dublin. He has played rugby for both Provinces.

Robbo · 20-04-2016 7:38am

All this analysis made the Shelbyville pundits rather hungry...

CMOTDibbler · 20-04-2016 8:40am

jm08 wrote: »

Eddie O'Sullivan did some analysis on Against the Head which is contrary to your analysis.

Eddie is a funny man sometimes. But that particular bell is one he won't be able to unring.

Cronin shifted his bind to just behind Bealham's shoulder and pulled him down. Clear as day and blatant as hell.

thomond2006 · 20-04-2016 8:45am

Billysays no wrote: »

The only pundit from Munster I have any respect for is Tony Ward.

Yeah_Right · 20-04-2016 8:47am

Watched the game again and in one of the earlier scrums (I think it was the one when the ref gave the warning) Cronin is binding on Bealham's armpit and is pulling down. He definitely deserved to get the yc.

20-04-2016 9:00am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td9vJRZrCPQ

Are my eyes deceiving me or did a TH prop score a try and also made an absolutely incredible catch which led to Holland's YC?

Dillane is a beast too.

b.gud · 20-04-2016 9:04am

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td9vJRZrCPQ

Are my eyes deceiving me or did a TH prop score a try and also made an absolutely incredible catch which led to Holland's YC?

Dillane is a beast too.

And he (Bealham) offloads to Niyi for Connachts first try

connemara man · 20-04-2016 9:06am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td9vJRZrCPQ

Are my eyes deceiving me or did a TH prop score a try and also made an absolutely incredible catch which led to Holland's YC?

Dillane is a beast too.

And a TH that collects loose offloads and pops his own to Niyi for the first try. He had a great game.

20-04-2016 9:07am

connemara man wrote: »

And a TH that collects loose offloads and pops his own to Niyi for the first try. He had a great game.

Even if he was utterly anonymous for the entire rest of the game, it's nice to see the 'fat lads' using their hands!

connemara man · 20-04-2016 9:08am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Even if he was utterly anonymous for the entire rest of the game, it's nice to see the 'fat lads' using their hands!

Sure Buckley usually sets up at SH when Marmion gets stuck at the bottom of a rucj not bad for a LH

CMOTDibbler · 20-04-2016 9:09am

connemara man wrote: »

And a TH that collects loose offloads and pops his own to Niyi for the first try. He had a great game.

There was some consternation around these parts when Joe called him up during the six nations. Maybe he does know the players better than we think.

b.gud · 20-04-2016 9:09am

Deleted User wrote: »

Even if he was utterly anonymous for the entire rest of the game, it's nice to see the 'fat lads' using their hands!

Our "fat lads" love using their hands

20-04-2016 9:13am

Ah I know all about Buckley. He's supposed to be the only one that's allowed do it.

20-04-2016 9:21am

When is Dillane moving to Leinster?

Bazzo · 20-04-2016 9:21am

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

There was some consternation around these parts when Joe called him up during the six nations. Maybe he does know the players better than we think.

That's not really true. Everybody was delighted for Bealham, but disappointed that Buckley wasn't also present. Then when Bealham actually played at LH it was a bit of a bizzare situation because he's not even close to overtaking Buckley as first choice LH at Connacht.

Here's a screenshot I took the other day of the moment of engage in the scrum Cronin gets a YC(I don't know HOW this "debate" is still ongoing. With certain posters I really shouldn't be surprised I suppose).

Y9q1HZK.jpg?1

About 20 seconds before this there was a reset and Whitehouse(after previously warning everybody there would be cards with continued shenanigans) pointed directly at Cronin and said "You keep your bind up".

FFS it's so clear cut it's ridiculous.

connemara man · 20-04-2016 9:24am

But you cant let facts get in the way of outrage or an argument though

galwaylad14 · 20-04-2016 9:29am

I was at the match in the Clan Terrace so I couldn't really see the incident Cronin got the yellow for but just watched the highlights there. Now ordinarily I'll admit I have no idea what's going on in the scrum but surely that one was clear as day? He blatantly drags Bealham to the ground. What was Foley and a few on here raving about saying that it should have been a Munster penalty? I think Foley even went as far as to suggest that there was something more sinister involved in relation to Whitehouse carding Cronin for the second time this season.

Looks a very clear scrum penalty to me and given that he had warned the front rows previously I can't see how anyone could complain about that yellow

20-04-2016 9:33am

Very straightforward penalty yes.

CMOTDibbler · 20-04-2016 9:34am

Bazzo wrote: »

That's not really true. Everybody was delighted for Bealham, but disappointed that Buckley wasn't also present. Then when Bealham actually played at LH it was a bit of a bizzare situation because he's not even close to overtaking Buckley as first choice LH at Connacht.

I wonder if Buckley's problem is his height and weight?. He seems quite small for a prop, any chance he could convert to hooker? He'd be a fantastic addition to the Ireland squad in the loose especially.

Bazzo wrote: »

About 20 seconds before this there was a reset and Whitehouse(after previously warning everybody there would be cards with continued shenanigans) pointed directly at Cronin and said "You keep your bind up".

FFS it's so clear cut it's ridiculous.

I didn't need to look at it twice it was that obvious. It was brain dead by Cronin and he deserved his YC. But you have to ask what the coaching staff are doing by letting that kind of play get on the pitch. Fine if you can get away with it; that's clever play, but when you're specifically warned not to do it and go ahead anyway, then that's another problem entirely.

Bazzo · 20-04-2016 9:42am

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I wonder if Buckley's problem is his height and weight?. He seems quite small for a prop, any chance he could convert to hooker? He'd be a fantastic addition to the Ireland squad in the loose especially.

I really don't know what the reason he's being excluded is but I've always been told by the heavies I know that shorter LH props are usually better scrummagers because they have a lower centre of gravity and are harder to get under.

He's slotted in at hooker once for Connacht for the last 10 mins of a game a few years ago when there was a spate of injuries and I think he may have played the odd game for Blackrock there but he's not a hooker and it's probably a bit late to go about changing him into one now.

galwaylad14 · 20-04-2016 9:44am

Also after watching teh highlights, what a contribution by Finlay Bealham.

Won the penalty that led to the yellow for Cronin.
Was in position to take Bundee's offload and give Niyi the scoring pass for the first try
Did extremely well to hold a poor pass in the corner and from the resulting ruck Holland didn't roll away and was yellow carded.
Contributed to the pushover try
Scored a try himself

CMOTDibbler · 20-04-2016 9:58am

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Also after watching teh highlights, what a contribution by Finlay Bealham.

Won the penalty that led to the yellow for Cronin.

I'm sorry, but you can't give him credit for that.

CMOTDibbler · 20-04-2016 10:06am

Bazzo wrote: »

I really don't know what the reason he's being excluded is but I've always been told by the heavies I know that shorter LH props are usually better scrummagers because they have a lower centre of gravity and are harder to get under.

On the other hand, I believe that the props need to be as close in height as possible in order to scrummage squarely. It was always said about John Hayes, that he was too tall for a prop and he had to bend himself horrendously in order to remain square. We always had a weak enough scrum because of it.

Bazzo wrote: »

He's slotted in at hooker once for Connacht for the last 10 mins of a game a few years ago when there was a spate of injuries and I think he may have played the odd game for Blackrock there but he's not a hooker and it's probably a bit late to go about changing him into one now.

It probably wouldn't suit Connacht anyway and Ireland have enough hookers at the moment. Just if it's his height that's holding him back (I can see nothing else tbh) then it might be worth trying.

Yeah_Right · 20-04-2016 10:15am

Bazzo wrote: »

I really don't know what the reason he's being excluded is but I've always been told by the heavies I know that shorter LH props are usually better scrummagers because they have a lower centre of gravity and are harder to get under.

He's slotted in at hooker once for Connacht for the last 10 mins of a game a few years ago when there was a spate of injuries and I think he may have played the odd game for Blackrock there but he's not a hooker and it's probably a bit late to go about changing him into one now.

Interesting. I always found shorter props easier to scrum against. Also they can't lift as high in the lineout. The Connacht scrum must be quite strange with Bealham at 1m90, McCartney at 1m85 and Buckley at 1m70. Normally the hooker is the shortest.

CMOTDibbler · 20-04-2016 10:21am

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Interesting. I always found shorter props easier to scrum against. Also they can't lift as high in the lineout. The Connacht scrum must be quite strange with Bealham at 1m90, McCartney at 1m85 and Buckley at 1m70. Normally the hooker is the shortest.

You can actually see it in the pic above. Bealham is quite a bit ahead of Buckley; Cronin is getting mashed as a result (I suspect that's why he pulled Bealham down) and is being driven inwards.

Bazzo · 20-04-2016 10:24am

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Interesting. I always found shorter props easier to scrum against. Also they can't lift as high in the lineout. The Connacht scrum must be quite strange with Bealham at 1m90, McCartney at 1m85 and Buckley at 1m70. Normally the hooker is the shortest.

If it's strange and it works

The scrum has been one of Connacht's strengths for the last 2 seasons. Very few teams have got the upper hand on them there.

margueriteob wrote: »

.

Fair point, well made.

CMOTDibbler · 20-04-2016 10:32am

Bazzo wrote: »

If it's strange and it works The scrum has been one of Connacht's strengths for the last 2 seasons. Very few teams have got the upper hand on them there.

Finlay Bealham is the new John Hayes. You heard it here first

20-04-2016 10:33am

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Finlay Bealham is the new John Hayes. You heard it here first

Hayes was certainly not known for his scrummaging ability!

thomond2006 · 20-04-2016 10:43am

Deleted User wrote: »

Hayes was certainly not known for his scrummaging ability!

John Hayes is the greatest scrummager of all time. He was just consistently mis-understood by incompetent referees.

CMOTDibbler · 20-04-2016 10:49am

Deleted User wrote: »

Hayes was certainly not known for his scrummaging ability!

The comparison was made in relation to their heights. Nothing more, I promise

.

I'd like to see Bealham doing a John Hayes lift in the lineout though

Connacht vs Munster, Sat 16th April 19.15, Sportsground. Sky Sports 5/TG4

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