So the army's hoping to recruit 1450 new soldiers... Waste of money?

0byme75341jo28 · 17-04-2016 05:10PM

ygolometsipe wrote: »

You will never win in Age of Empires II with that attitude.
Typical noob mistake, making a great economy only to have the
Byzantines come in an smash it all to sh1t.

You will be happy with your 1450 troops when everyone is hiding
in the town center getting pelted with arrows!

wolowolowolo... :pac:

flas · 18-04-2016 01:21AM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

More money into the health service would just compound the wastefulness. It is a problem of industrial relations, gombeen local politics, and a lack of communication to the public on what is necessary for an effective health system. Sacking at least 10000 people, reforming outdated restrictive practices which lock-in inefficiency, closing all the hospitals in small towns (only Dublin Cork, Galway and Sligo should have them), new contracts including paycuts for workers, and reform of the procurement are needed first.

We need an army. As a responsible, open international state, expecting to be respected on the world stage we must make our contribution however small towards pooled global security. If the recruits are needed for us to be able to do that, then we must pay the price to do so. Not look at what else we might spend it on. Particularly not good money after bad in to the health service.

So for the midlands,with a population of nearly 300,000 you want to close tullamore hospital?

AllthingsCP · 18-04-2016 01:39AM

maryishere wrote: »

We do need some token little army though, because of a possible threat at some stage in the future from dissidents or whoever, and to diffuse the odd bomb and so on..

The Odd bomb... Weekly call outs the BS receive ...

The Armed Forces here provide aid to the civil service, Medical transport, Garrison duty's to both Government buildings & Prison duties.. They can subsidize strike action for ambulance corp if required. Port duties, Customs and the Naval services provides anti drugs petrol's & natural sea resources protection. Just to name a tiny part of the role the PDF fills

esforum · 18-04-2016 01:41AM

Ruben Fancy Golf wrote: »

serve in war zones,

Gardai do UN duty including active war zones

Ruben Fancy Golf wrote: »

medic's who helped in the West African Ebola crisis,

well yes, paramedics could certainly do that

However I like the military and think they do a good job when called upon.

Riddle101 · 18-04-2016 02:46AM

Any time there's talk about money being spent on the Defense Forces people get mad. It's not like the country over spends on the army or anything, in fact Ireland's military spending is pretty low, so i've no problem if they decide to throw a bit of money their way and recruit new soldiers. I'm also happy they're looking to recruit new members, it is after all another occupation so there's also the fact that they're creating new jobs out of this too.

Canis Lupus · 18-04-2016 02:59AM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

More money into the health service would just compound the wastefulness. It is a problem of industrial relations, gombeen local politics, and a lack of communication to the public on what is necessary for an effective health system. Sacking at least 10000 people, reforming outdated restrictive practices which lock-in inefficiency, closing all the hospitals in small towns (only Dublin Cork, Galway and Sligo should have them), new contracts including paycuts for workers, and reform of the procurement are needed first.

We need an army. As a responsible, open international state, expecting to be respected on the world stage we must make our contribution however small towards pooled global security. If the recruits are needed for us to be able to do that, then we must pay the price to do so. Not look at what else we might spend it on. Particularly not good money after bad in to the health service.

Nice scenic 2-3 hour trip in an ambulance whilst suffering a heart attack or other similar medical emergency sounds like a pleasant experience.

Esel · 18-04-2016 03:43AM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

More money into the health service would just compound the wastefulness. It is a problem of industrial relations, gombeen local politics, and a lack of communication to the public on what is necessary for an effective health system. Sacking at least 10000 people, reforming outdated restrictive practices which lock-in inefficiency, closing all the hospitals in small towns (only Dublin Cork, Galway and Sligo should have them), new contracts including paycuts for workers, and reform of the procurement are needed first.

We need an army. As a responsible, open international state, expecting to be respected on the world stage we must make our contribution however small towards pooled global security. If the recruits are needed for us to be able to do that, then we must pay the price to do so. Not look at what else we might spend it on. Particularly not good money after bad in to the health service.

Should army veh-ic-les be shod with cheap Chinese tyres? They are bullet-proof, according to yuo... :rolleyes:

diomed · 18-04-2016 07:49AM

I must be the only person who guesses we are about to march north to honour the proclamation.
Quick, into Lidl and clear out the bread shelves.

JustTheOne · 18-04-2016 08:07AM

kneemos wrote: »

From what I gather the health service is more than adequately funded when compared to other countries.
It's how it's managed is the problem.

And as the study showed last week the top users of a and e were unemployed people with alcohol and drug issues.

Before anyone says anything it was a study none which came out last week.

That's your problem right there and people abusing the system with medical cards.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/patients-with-flu-symptoms-choosing-a-e-over-gp-1.2610405

The above says it all. People going to a and e with the flu for **** sake!

Can guarantee you people who don't have a medical card and get the flu don't attend and e wasting everyone's time.

Iwasfrozen · 18-04-2016 08:16AM

Riddle101 wrote: »

Any time there's talk about money being spent on the Defense Forces people get mad. It's not like the country over spends on the army or anything, in fact Ireland's military spending is pretty low, so i've no problem if they decide to throw a bit of money their way and recruit new soldiers. I'm also happy they're looking to recruit new members, it is after all another occupation so there's also the fact that they're creating new jobs out of this too.

Anything above zero spent on an army is a bad thing. I haven't heard of one thing they do which couldn't be done cheaper by a token militarized Garda wing.

The other occupation argument is idiotic. If we employed people to dig ditches and fill them in again that would be an occupation.

timmyntc · 18-04-2016 11:20AM

JustTheOne wrote: »

And as the study showed last week the top users of a and e were unemployed people with alcohol and drug issues.

Before anyone says anything it was a study none which came out last week.

That's your problem right there and people abusing the system with medical cards.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/patients-with-flu-symptoms-choosing-a-e-over-gp-1.2610405

The above says it all. People going to a and e with the flu for **** sake!

Can guarantee you people who don't have a medical card and get the flu don't attend and e wasting everyone's time.

I have a medical card and when I get the flu I don't attend a&e either. I don't think that medical cards are a cause, more a symptom of the types of people who clog up the health service

mikeym · 18-04-2016 11:29AM

Theres a constant turnover in the army/navy because they are low paid and the 21 year pension is now a 30 year pension.

The government dont want to be paying pensions and if a serviceman does 5 years and leaves thats perfect for the government.

The Wavy Navy are always looking for people because theres always people retiring or leaving.

Nekarsulm · 18-04-2016 11:33AM

My neighbours attend A&E at least once a week, with one or other of their children . Usually with a chesty cough or flu-like symptoms.
Then back home, and keep right on chain smoking in the house .
They can see no correlation between the two.

A €10 charge would at least weed out some of the serial attendees.

PTH2009 · 18-04-2016 11:36AM

There's a long waiting list for soldiers to go on duty abroad and many who pass out are stuck in the barracks for years doing wasteful jobs.

AudreyHepburn · 18-04-2016 12:28PM

Lack of funding in the Health system is not the problem, mismanagement of said funds and those who insist on clogging up A&E departments for every little scratch and cough are.

And how anyone could think our Defence Forces are a waste of money is beyond - ever heard of The Lebanon, The Congo, all those vital and dangerous peacekeeping missions they embark on? Do people really believe they sit on their laurels all day doing nothing?

esforum · 18-04-2016 01:03PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Lack of funding in the Health system is not the problem, mismanagement of said funds and those who insist on clogging up A&E departments for every little scratch and cough are.

And how anyone could think our Defence Forces are a waste of money is beyond - ever heard of The Lebanon, The Congo, all those vital and dangerous peacekeeping missions they embark on? Do people really believe they sit on their laurels all day doing nothing?

this is Ireland, spending money and helping people abroad is a dirty activity. People wanted to leave the EU the very first time we paid more in than we got out ffs!

The Rape of Lucretia · 18-04-2016 01:24PM

flas wrote: »

So for the midlands,with a population of nearly 300,000 you want to close tullamore hospital?

Yes. I am sure the 300,000 would prefer to have a better health service than they do today.

gizmo555 · 18-04-2016 01:33PM

Brandon Sharp Soap wrote: »

Would the money involved in this recruitment drive not be better spent on something like healthcare?

Ireland already has the 2nd highest per capita spend on health in the OECD and the poorest outcomes.

There's no reason to expect that allocating this money to health would make the slightest difference, given the current levels of inefficiency, mismanagement and waste in the HSE. That's what needs to be dealt with.

Arguably, given the level of fitness required for military service, this defence spend could result in better health outcomes.

Iwasfrozen · 18-04-2016 01:41PM

gizmo555 wrote: »

Ireland already has the 2nd highest per capita spend on health in the OECD and the poorest outcomes.

There's no reason to expect that allocating this money to health would make the slightest difference, given the current levels of inefficiency, mismanagement and waste in the HSE. That's what needs to be dealt with.

Arguably, given the level of fitness required for military service, this defence spend could result in better health outcomes.

Arguably? I'd like to see you argue it.

Instead of flushing this money down the toilet we could give junior doctors a much needed pay rise? Or would that have no effect either?

BoJack Horseman · 18-04-2016 01:44PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Arguably? I'd like to see you argue it.

Instead of flushing this money down the toilet we could give junior doctors a much needed pay rise? Or would that have no effect either?

Why not payrises for everyone?!

Viva la Bertienomics!

joeysoap · 18-04-2016 01:51PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

More money into the health service would just compound the wastefulness. It is a problem of industrial relations, gombeen local politics, and a lack of communication to the public on what is necessary for an effective health system. Sacking at least 10000 people, reforming outdated restrictive practices which lock-in inefficiency, closing all the hospitals in small towns (only Dublin Cork, Galway and Sligo should have them), new contracts including paycuts for workers, and reform of the procurement are needed first.

We need an army. As a responsible, open international state, expecting to be respected on the world stage we must make our contribution however small towards pooled global security. If the recruits are needed for us to be able to do that, then we must pay the price to do so. Not look at what else we might spend it on. Particularly not good money after bad in to the health service.

Wow!!! No hospitals at all from Waterford to Monaghan on the east outside of Dublin (not a lot different from the present set-up admittedly).The Wild Atlantic way is well (relatively) catered for in your scenario. As for the Midlands, you don't need luxuries like hospitals.

I think we need modern, well trained and well equipped army, and if they need 1500 recruits, that's fine by me. We also need a better functioning hospital service.

Dr Turk Turkelton · 18-04-2016 01:53PM

Nekarsulm wrote: »

My neighbours attend A&E at least once a week, with one or other of their children . Usually with a chesty cough or flu-like symptoms.
Then back home, and keep right on chain smoking in the house .
They can see no correlation between the two.

A €10 charge would at least weed out some of the serial attendees.

I know one c*nt with a medical card who called an ambulance because her six year old daughter had a nosebleed.
And no she doesn't work but she does have a hugely subsided house to go with her free healthcare.

Jawgap · 18-04-2016 01:57PM

Captain Chaos wrote: »

1400 extra soldiers are going to make feck all difference if something were to happen.

We are basically defenseless anyway you look at it. All we can do is support other forces abroad in peace keeping roles, we have no force projection or defensive capabilities at all.

All countries are effectively defenceless. If you have a look on the Defence Forces' Facebook page and Twitter feed you get a flavour of what the soldiers, sailors and aircrew get up to on a day-to-day basis - much of it is unglamourous, but essential - they are not sitting in trenches waiting for Putin to invade

.....and we have force projection commensurate with our needs.

Fact is we punch way above our weight on the foreign and international relations stage, in part because we maintain an active and effective peace keeping capability.

astrofool · 18-04-2016 03:53PM

Brandon Sharp Soap wrote: »

Targeted spending would certainly help, if it was used to buy new ambulance/employ more medical staff for example, as opposed to being spent on golden handshakes/bonuses.

The HSE is a money black hole, it needs reform top to bottom, the best we can hope is that it limps along as it is and somehow technology will replace all the work being done. The unions of the HSE are some of the most intransigent in the land, and every little change will be resisted, and the front line doctors and nurses will be wheeled out to protect the administrative side preserving the current status quo.

Things can be improved slightly via the capital budget, building more modern hospitals, but that will be a long term expenditure anyway, throwing more budget money at the HSE will not lead to any tangible improvements given it's current structure.

mikeym · 18-04-2016 04:10PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

There's a long waiting list for soldiers to go on duty abroad and many who pass out are stuck in the barracks for years doing wasteful jobs.

There was a lot of deadwood (pre 1994 contracts) around that dodged everything and could not get discharged but since then if you dont meet the requirements your out.

Barry Badrinath · 18-04-2016 04:11PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

There's a long waiting list for soldiers to go on duty abroad and many who pass out are stuck in the barracks for years doing wasteful jobs.

What wasteful jobs?

It wasn't me! · 18-04-2016 05:08PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Anything above zero spent on an army is a bad thing. I haven't heard of one thing they do which couldn't be done cheaper by a token militarized Garda wing.

You were called to account for that statement the last time this came up and you went very quiet afterwards too. You couldn't enumerate where savings were to be made and why a gendarmerie style force would be cheaper. And you're calling on other people to argue their positions? That's rich.

jmayo · 18-04-2016 05:18PM

Ruben Fancy Golf wrote: »

And you know this because of your service at home & abroad on various peace keeping & peace enforcement tours?.. Or are you just guessing?.

They do have a point.
For instance how did the Army get themselves and their kit to Chad/CAR ?
We don't have a proper armed forces because they don't get the funding and every time someone tries to give funding the ones come out of the woodwork demanding it is given to the sacred cows i.e. nurses and guards (otherwise known as the weeknight clientele of Coppers).

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

More money into the health service would just compound the wastefulness. It is a problem of industrial relations, gombeen local politics, and a lack of communication to the public on what is necessary for an effective health system. Sacking at least 10000 people, reforming outdated restrictive practices which lock-in inefficiency, closing all the hospitals in small towns (only Dublin Cork, Galway and Sligo should have them), new contracts including paycuts for workers, and reform of the procurement are needed first.

Let me guess you live in probably Dublin ?

You don't even include one of the biggest urban areas in the country, ehhh Limerick.

i do agree with the rest.

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Lack of funding in the Health system is not the problem, mismanagement of said funds and those who insist on clogging up A&E departments for every little scratch and cough are.

And how anyone could think our Defence Forces are a waste of money is beyond - ever heard of The Lebanon, The Congo, all those vital and dangerous peacekeeping missions they embark on? Do people really believe they sit on their laurels all day doing nothing?

Have you taken a look at the current state of affairs of both Congo and Lebanon ?

You can big up Ireland's contribution, but really it hasn't done much in the grand scheme of things.
Now I am not having a go solely at Ireland, rather the whole UN which is a tool of the big six.
Hell in Africa these days they are part of the problem for the locals.

mahoganygas · 18-04-2016 05:21PM

Finally, some forward thinking!

Who else is going to drive our trams when the LUAS drivers decide to take more days off?

:pac:

jmayo · 18-04-2016 05:30PM

joeysoap wrote: »

Wow!!! No hospitals at all from Waterford to Monaghan on the east outside of Dublin (not a lot different from the present set-up admittedly).The Wild Atlantic way is well (relatively) catered for in your scenario. As for the Midlands, you don't need luxuries like hospitals.

You don't appear to understand Irish geographic nor realise where we currently have hospitals. :rolleyes:

There are no hospitals in her list bar Sligo and Galway on the Wild Atlantic Way, which by the way would be an area which has some of the worse roads in the country.
There is no hospital between Galway and Cork.

And Cork City is not on the Wild Atlantic Way as it ends in Kinsale.

And at the moment there are hospitals (some major) in Waterford, Kilkenny, Naas, Tullamore, Portlaoise, Mullingar, Cavan, Navan.

So the army's hoping to recruit 1450 new soldiers... Waste of money?

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