So the army's hoping to recruit 1450 new soldiers... Waste of money?

0byme75341jo28

Would the money involved in this recruitment drive not be better spent on something like healthcare? To open up more beds in hospitals? More ambulances for rural Ireland? I understand that the money for this won't be coming from the healthcare budget, but the Irish army is far far less important than the healthcare services. Why not employ 1450 nurses/paramedics in the next two years? Can't help but see this as a complete waste of money, these new recruits are going to be of very little use to the general public.

tigger123

Throwing money at the health system isn't going to solve it.

Is the army down on numbers since the recession and recruitments embargo? Are they filling vacancies or are they new positions?

0byme75341jo28

tigger123 wrote: »

Throwing money at the health system isn't going to solve it.

Is the army down on numbers since the recession and recruitments embargo? Are they filling vacancies or are they new positions?

Targeted spending would certainly help, if it was used to buy new ambulance/employ more medical staff for example, as opposed to being spent on golden handshakes/bonuses.

Guy:Incognito

More Gardai I would have thought would be an acceptable alternative spend?

Dirty Dingus McGee

Sounds like a sensible use of money.

For defensive reason we should definitely have a bigger armed forces and more resources for them.

No point being completely helpless as a country if something were to happen.

dreamers75

Recruitment drive???? those 1450 lads/ladies are all related to current army members.

Captain Chaos

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

More Gardai I would have thought would be an acceptable alternative spend?

AGSI have said that they could hire around 1,500 civilians to free up the same amount of gardai from desk duties. That seems like a no brainer plan to me.

arybvtcw0eolkf

I'd give the money to recruit more nurse's & garda to defuse bombs, serve in war zones, bring humanitarian aid to the Med flotilla, medic's who helped in the West African Ebola crisis, patrol & protect our shores etc etc and all for a miserly few million a year.

Oh, and get a few LUAS drivers to operate the tanks

Captain Chaos

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

No point being completely helpless as a country if something were to happen.

1400 extra soldiers are going to make feck all difference if something were to happen.

We are basically defenseless anyway you look at it. All we can do is support other forces abroad in peace keeping roles, we have no force projection or defensive capabilities at all.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Captain Chaos wrote: »

1400 extra soldiers are going to make feck all difference if something were to happen.

We are basically defenseless anyway you look at it. All we can do is support other forces abroad in peace keeping roles, we have no force projection or defensive capabilities at all.

Perhaps but I don't see the harm of having a larger army particularly considering the good work they do with the UN forces.

There are many more things that could be considered more wasteful than this.

JustTheOne

Brandon Sharp Soap wrote: »

Targeted spending would certainly help, if it was used to buy new ambulance/employ more medical staff for example, as opposed to being spent on golden handshakes/bonuses.

People on medical cards clogging up doctors and hospitals with a sniffle is what is causing the health system to not function proper.

If I don't use it I loose it is the excuse.

1 in 2 having medical cards is a disgrace. Start charging even a 5er to go to the doctor or hospital and you would solve the health crisis.

LeinsterDub

Captain Chaos wrote: »

1400 extra soldiers are going to make feck all difference if something were to happen.

People in the flood effect areas where certainly happy our 'useless' army was around to help

arybvtcw0eolkf

Captain Chaos wrote: »

We are basically defenseless anyway you look at it. All we can do is support other forces abroad in peace keeping roles, we have no force projection or defensive capabilities at all.

And you know this because of your service at home & abroad on various peace keeping & peace enforcement tours?.. Or are you just guessing?.

uck51js9zml2yt

My brother will be retiring in a few years after over 40_years service. They'll need 1450 to replace him, so a good call:)

edbrez

tigger123 wrote: »

Throwing money at the health system isn't going to solve it.

Ugly Irish people who don't care for themselves will always end up sick.

Barry Badrinath

Captain Chaos wrote: »

1400 extra soldiers are going to make feck all difference if something were to happen.

We are basically defenseless anyway you look at it. All we can do is support other forces abroad in peace keeping roles, we have no force projection or defensive capabilities at all.

If only you could see the irony in your post.

Well, with 1400 less soldiers, we will be even more defenceless with reduced force protection.

Do you even know what 'force protection' means? Do you know what the current defence capabilities are? Or even what to defend against?

We dont generally "support other forces" either, we are a force ourselves.

You should inform yourself about the last 10yrs Defence budget Vs. The last 10yrs Health budget. Identify which one wasted more of tax payers money.

Ideally, more nurses and AGS would be my preference but until the deficiencies in the service are eradicated, more personnel is fruitless.

MacauDragon

Defense budget should go on suitcase sized bioweapons and minisubs and speedboats.

Iwasfrozen

Brandon Sharp Soap wrote: »

Would the money involved in this recruitment drive not be better spent on something like healthcare? To open up more beds in hospitals? More ambulances for rural Ireland? I understand that the money for this won't be coming from the healthcare budget, but the Irish army is far far less important than the healthcare services. Why not employ 1450 nurses/paramedics in the next two years? Can't help but see this as a complete waste of money, these new recruits are going to be of very little use to the general public.

We should be cutting the defence force by 1450 people, what a waste of money.

Carlos Orange

Pretty sure a tiny increase in health spending isn't going to stop people moaning about the health system.

BoJack Horseman

To frame this in some context, below are the numbers of retirees from the defence forces in recent years:

2008: 276
2009: 425
2010: 427
2011: 498
2013: 597

In 2014 there were around 400 new members, in 2015 it was 350
2016 there will be 600 & in 2017 in there will be 850 vacancies across the services.

* I can't find the number of retirees in 2012 or 2014
... but it would likely to be around 500 in each year.

So, the government just want to get back to the minimum force structure of just 9,500 personnel..... as of October 15' it was at 9,155

They haven't been allowed to recruit enough in the last couple of years. This recruitment drive is just to maintain strength at 9,500 total across the three branches. The DF isn't getting bigger its just doing enough to stop getting smaller.

kneemos

Brandon Sharp Soap wrote: »

Would the money involved in this recruitment drive not be better spent on something like healthcare? To open up more beds in hospitals? More ambulances for rural Ireland? I understand that the money for this won't be coming from the healthcare budget, but the Irish army is far far less important than the healthcare services. Why not employ 1450 nurses/paramedics in the next two years? Can't help but see this as a complete waste of money, these new recruits are going to be of very little use to the general public.

From what I gather the health service is more than adequately funded when compared to other countries.
It's how it's managed is the problem.

ygolometsipe

Brandon Sharp Soap wrote: »

Would the money involved in this recruitment drive not be better spent ....

You will never win in Age of Empires II with that attitude.
Typical noob mistake, making a great economy only to have the
Byzantines come in an smash it all to sh1t.

You will be happy with your 1450 troops when everyone is hiding
in the town center getting pelted with arrows!

The One Doctor

edbrez wrote: »

Ugly Irish people who don't care for themselves will always end up sick.

You can take care of yourself as much as possible and still get brain cancer, MS, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, pancreatitis... the list goes on and on.

And I'm sure you can't help being ugly. Not your fault.

kneemos

Trouble with the army is you don't see them very often,they don't even do the money escorts anymore. Nobody really knows what they do.

maryishere

kneemos wrote: »

Trouble with the army is you don't see them very often,they don't even do the money escorts anymore. Nobody really knows what they do.

play paintball games?:D

anto9

Join the Irish army and see the Curagh .Gob****e Army .If you are lucky though you might be sent to Syria .(we are not in Nato but in the pocket of the USA .)

holdfast

go anto09

maryishere

anto9 wrote: »

Join the Irish army and see the Curagh .Gob****e Army .

We do need some token little army though, because of a possible threat at some stage in the future from dissidents or whoever, and to diffuse the odd bomb and so on..

Guy:Incognito

The One Doctor wrote: »

And I'm sure you can't help being ugly. Not your fault.

Enough funding in the health service and we can include elective plastic surgery for all

The Rape of Lucretia

Brandon Sharp Soap wrote: »

Targeted spending would certainly help, if it was used to buy new ambulance/employ more medical staff for example, as opposed to being spent on golden handshakes/bonuses.

More money into the health service would just compound the wastefulness. It is a problem of industrial relations, gombeen local politics, and a lack of communication to the public on what is necessary for an effective health system. Sacking at least 10000 people, reforming outdated restrictive practices which lock-in inefficiency, closing all the hospitals in small towns (only Dublin Cork, Galway and Sligo should have them), new contracts including paycuts for workers, and reform of the procurement are needed first.


We need an army. As a responsible, open international state, expecting to be respected on the world stage we must make our contribution however small towards pooled global security. If the recruits are needed for us to be able to do that, then we must pay the price to do so. Not look at what else we might spend it on. Particularly not good money after bad in to the health service.

0byme75341jo28

ygolometsipe wrote: »

You will never win in Age of Empires II with that attitude.
Typical noob mistake, making a great economy only to have the
Byzantines come in an smash it all to sh1t.

You will be happy with your 1450 troops when everyone is hiding
in the town center getting pelted with arrows!

wolowolowolo... :pac:

flas

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

More money into the health service would just compound the wastefulness. It is a problem of industrial relations, gombeen local politics, and a lack of communication to the public on what is necessary for an effective health system. Sacking at least 10000 people, reforming outdated restrictive practices which lock-in inefficiency, closing all the hospitals in small towns (only Dublin Cork, Galway and Sligo should have them), new contracts including paycuts for workers, and reform of the procurement are needed first.


We need an army. As a responsible, open international state, expecting to be respected on the world stage we must make our contribution however small towards pooled global security. If the recruits are needed for us to be able to do that, then we must pay the price to do so. Not look at what else we might spend it on. Particularly not good money after bad in to the health service.

So for the midlands,with a population of nearly 300,000 you want to close tullamore hospital?

AllthingsCP

maryishere wrote: »

We do need some token little army though, because of a possible threat at some stage in the future from dissidents or whoever, and to diffuse the odd bomb and so on..

The Odd bomb... Weekly call outs the BS receive ...

The Armed Forces here provide aid to the civil service, Medical transport, Garrison duty's to both Government buildings & Prison duties.. They can subsidize strike action for ambulance corp if required. Port duties, Customs and the Naval services provides anti drugs petrol's & natural sea resources protection. Just to name a tiny part of the role the PDF fills

esforum

Ruben Fancy Golf wrote: »

serve in war zones,

Gardai do UN duty including active war zones

Ruben Fancy Golf wrote: »

medic's who helped in the West African Ebola crisis,

well yes, paramedics could certainly do that

However I like the military and think they do a good job when called upon.

Riddle101

Any time there's talk about money being spent on the Defense Forces people get mad. It's not like the country over spends on the army or anything, in fact Ireland's military spending is pretty low, so i've no problem if they decide to throw a bit of money their way and recruit new soldiers. I'm also happy they're looking to recruit new members, it is after all another occupation so there's also the fact that they're creating new jobs out of this too.

Canis Lupus

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

More money into the health service would just compound the wastefulness. It is a problem of industrial relations, gombeen local politics, and a lack of communication to the public on what is necessary for an effective health system. Sacking at least 10000 people, reforming outdated restrictive practices which lock-in inefficiency, closing all the hospitals in small towns (only Dublin Cork, Galway and Sligo should have them), new contracts including paycuts for workers, and reform of the procurement are needed first.


We need an army. As a responsible, open international state, expecting to be respected on the world stage we must make our contribution however small towards pooled global security. If the recruits are needed for us to be able to do that, then we must pay the price to do so. Not look at what else we might spend it on. Particularly not good money after bad in to the health service.

Nice scenic 2-3 hour trip in an ambulance whilst suffering a heart attack or other similar medical emergency sounds like a pleasant experience.

Esel

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

More money into the health service would just compound the wastefulness. It is a problem of industrial relations, gombeen local politics, and a lack of communication to the public on what is necessary for an effective health system. Sacking at least 10000 people, reforming outdated restrictive practices which lock-in inefficiency, closing all the hospitals in small towns (only Dublin Cork, Galway and Sligo should have them), new contracts including paycuts for workers, and reform of the procurement are needed first.


We need an army. As a responsible, open international state, expecting to be respected on the world stage we must make our contribution however small towards pooled global security. If the recruits are needed for us to be able to do that, then we must pay the price to do so. Not look at what else we might spend it on. Particularly not good money after bad in to the health service.

Should army veh-ic-les be shod with cheap Chinese tyres? They are bullet-proof, according to yuo... :rolleyes:

diomed

I must be the only person who guesses we are about to march north to honour the proclamation.
Quick, into Lidl and clear out the bread shelves.

JustTheOne

kneemos wrote: »

From what I gather the health service is more than adequately funded when compared to other countries.
It's how it's managed is the problem.

And as the study showed last week the top users of a and e were unemployed people with alcohol and drug issues.

Before anyone says anything it was a study none which came out last week.

That's your problem right there and people abusing the system with medical cards.


http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/patients-with-flu-symptoms-choosing-a-e-over-gp-1.2610405

The above says it all. People going to a and e with the flu for **** sake!

Can guarantee you people who don't have a medical card and get the flu don't attend and e wasting everyone's time.

Iwasfrozen

Riddle101 wrote: »

Any time there's talk about money being spent on the Defense Forces people get mad. It's not like the country over spends on the army or anything, in fact Ireland's military spending is pretty low, so i've no problem if they decide to throw a bit of money their way and recruit new soldiers. I'm also happy they're looking to recruit new members, it is after all another occupation so there's also the fact that they're creating new jobs out of this too.

Anything above zero spent on an army is a bad thing. I haven't heard of one thing they do which couldn't be done cheaper by a token militarized Garda wing.

The other occupation argument is idiotic. If we employed people to dig ditches and fill them in again that would be an occupation.

timmyntc

JustTheOne wrote: »

And as the study showed last week the top users of a and e were unemployed people with alcohol and drug issues.

Before anyone says anything it was a study none which came out last week.

That's your problem right there and people abusing the system with medical cards.


http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/patients-with-flu-symptoms-choosing-a-e-over-gp-1.2610405

The above says it all. People going to a and e with the flu for **** sake!

Can guarantee you people who don't have a medical card and get the flu don't attend and e wasting everyone's time.

I have a medical card and when I get the flu I don't attend a&e either. I don't think that medical cards are a cause, more a symptom of the types of people who clog up the health service

mikeym

Theres a constant turnover in the army/navy because they are low paid and the 21 year pension is now a 30 year pension.

The government dont want to be paying pensions and if a serviceman does 5 years and leaves thats perfect for the government.

The Wavy Navy are always looking for people because theres always people retiring or leaving.

Nekarsulm

My neighbours attend A&E at least once a week, with one or other of their children . Usually with a chesty cough or flu-like symptoms.
Then back home, and keep right on chain smoking in the house .
They can see no correlation between the two.

A €10 charge would at least weed out some of the serial attendees.

PTH2009

There's a long waiting list for soldiers to go on duty abroad and many who pass out are stuck in the barracks for years doing wasteful jobs.

AudreyHepburn

Lack of funding in the Health system is not the problem, mismanagement of said funds and those who insist on clogging up A&E departments for every little scratch and cough are.

And how anyone could think our Defence Forces are a waste of money is beyond - ever heard of The Lebanon, The Congo, all those vital and dangerous peacekeeping missions they embark on? Do people really believe they sit on their laurels all day doing nothing?

esforum

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Lack of funding in the Health system is not the problem, mismanagement of said funds and those who insist on clogging up A&E departments for every little scratch and cough are.

And how anyone could think our Defence Forces are a waste of money is beyond - ever heard of The Lebanon, The Congo, all those vital and dangerous peacekeeping missions they embark on? Do people really believe they sit on their laurels all day doing nothing?

this is Ireland, spending money and helping people abroad is a dirty activity. People wanted to leave the EU the very first time we paid more in than we got out ffs!

The Rape of Lucretia

flas wrote: »

So for the midlands,with a population of nearly 300,000 you want to close tullamore hospital?

Yes. I am sure the 300,000 would prefer to have a better health service than they do today.

gizmo555

Brandon Sharp Soap wrote: »

Would the money involved in this recruitment drive not be better spent on something like healthcare?

Ireland already has the 2nd highest per capita spend on health in the OECD and the poorest outcomes.

There's no reason to expect that allocating this money to health would make the slightest difference, given the current levels of inefficiency, mismanagement and waste in the HSE. That's what needs to be dealt with.

Arguably, given the level of fitness required for military service, this defence spend could result in better health outcomes.

Iwasfrozen

gizmo555 wrote: »

Ireland already has the 2nd highest per capita spend on health in the OECD and the poorest outcomes.

There's no reason to expect that allocating this money to health would make the slightest difference, given the current levels of inefficiency, mismanagement and waste in the HSE. That's what needs to be dealt with.

Arguably, given the level of fitness required for military service, this defence spend could result in better health outcomes.

Arguably? I'd like to see you argue it.

Instead of flushing this money down the toilet we could give junior doctors a much needed pay rise? Or would that have no effect either?

BoJack Horseman

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Arguably? I'd like to see you argue it.

Instead of flushing this money down the toilet we could give junior doctors a much needed pay rise? Or would that have no effect either?

Why not payrises for everyone?!

Viva la Bertienomics!