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Does school prepare us for later life?

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    #92
    Wulfie
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Wulfie


    George Michael wrote: »
    “.”

    ― Doris Lessing, The Golden Notebook

    Exactly.


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    #93
    Wulfie
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Wulfie


    George Michael wrote: »
    “.”

    ― Doris Lessing, The Golden Notebook

    Exactly.


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    #94
    Wulfie
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Wulfie


    George Michael wrote: »
    “.”

    ― Doris Lessing, The Golden Notebook

    Exactly.


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    #95
    Wulfie
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Wulfie


    George Michael wrote: »
    “.”

    ― Doris Lessing, The Golden Notebook

    Exactly.


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    #96
    Wulfie
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Wulfie


    George Michael wrote: »
    “.”

    ― Doris Lessing, The Golden Notebook[

    I've been trying to go back a page and it kept posting sorry.


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    #97
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #98
    patrickbrophy18
    Registered Users Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭patrickbrophy18


    There are a few key principles (erm...principals :D) it instills in people. For example, getting up early for school gives us a taste of what getting up early for work is like. The disciplinary aspects of school life sets up a moral compass in students and on a smaller (and not as harsh) scale, emulates law enforcement e.g. detention, expulsion and essays. However, these measures are also comparable to workplace and not just law enforcement. Either way, it does prepare us for later life. That and parents.


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    #99
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,162 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Which is why I bring up philosphy: if you want an education that places emphasis on developing character, intelligence, independent opinions and logical thinking, you'll emphasise philosphy. If you don't, you won't.

    Consequently, the most "talented" students produced are the ones that can simply pass exams and say what they're told to say when they;re told to say it.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #100
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #101
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    George Michael wrote: »
    i respectfully disagree. it has a huge bearing in how we mature as adults

    You're empirically wrong. Ireland is full of people indoctrinated by Catholicism who nevertheless vote liberally. My education in catholic schoolshad very little religion.


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    #102
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Education can very much be used to indoctrinate. It was an essential part of the Nazi regeime.

    I said external forces mattered much more. Media. The Nazis controlled the media.


    I'm not saying that this is the case in Ireland, but I've always wondered why subjects like history and religion are compulsory and strongly pushed, whereas philosophy is not.

    I've read much philosophy and it's almost entirely bunk. The worst kinds of sloppy thinking.
    The gay marriage referendum is a bit of a red herring in that the people who voted had more access to the media and were out of reach of education. You really need both to indoctrinate successfully. Media without education will not bring people to heel, because they'll have learnt how to question it before the are really expose to it.

    As I said the media matters more in reply to the education as indoctrination primarily is via media.
    The questions with indoctination though, are: who is trying to indoctrinate, and what doctrine are they trying to implant?

    Education isn't necessarily indoctrination. Maths is just maths. An oxbow lake is an oxbow lake. Possibly there are levels of indoctrination in history but again the media or university level control of thought is much higher at that level.


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    #103
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,162 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Eugene Norman wrote: »

    I've read much philosophy and it's almost entirely bunk. The worst kinds of sloppy thinking.

    Elaborate on this one, please. What have you read, how is it sloppy and in what way is it "bunk"?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #104
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    There was very little rote in my schooling actually. It does depend on the subjects though. I cant imagine not using rote in many subjects like geography and biology.


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    #105
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Elaborate on this one, please. What have you read, how is it sloppy and in what way is it "bunk"?

    Why don't you tell me what isn't bunk first? The whole "we should teach philosophy" is generally held by people who think it's some kind of strong systematic way of thought that teaches logic. In most cases that's not true. It's a mess of unproven unscientific non falsifiable verbiage.


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    #106
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,162 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    Why don't you tell me what isn't bunk first? The whole "we should teach philosophy" is generally held by people who think it's some kind of strong systematic way of thought that teaches logic. In most cases that's not true. It's a mess of unproven unscientific non falsifiable verbiage.

    Because the claim that philosophy "is almost entirely bunk" was made by you and, as someone who has read a lot of philosophy, you'll therefore also be aware that the onus probandi also lies with you.

    It's a bit like the argument that God MUST exist because no athiest can disprove it.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #107
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    I'm not convinced. To me your post is in itself a regurgitation of "received opinions" and a somewhat lazy strawman argument.

    There is plenty of scope in the Irish education system for independent thinking and problem solving for those who choose it. Take the Junior Cycle - 10 subjects - half of which & mandatory for most- Maths/English/Irish/Science/Foreign Language - all encourage creative expression or problem solving.

    Other optional subjects such as woodwork/art/metalwork etc... do likewise in a practical way.

    In senior cycle - the only mandatory subjects are the creative and problem solving ones! One is free to select all technical subjects - sciences, applied maths etc... - like I did which all develop problem solving skills.

    If the system was designed to make me disengage the brain and sip from the bowl of received opinion it certainly failed. Instead I received a well rounded education which provided *knowledge* and *skills* not dross, for which I am very grateful.


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    #108
    J Mysterio
    Registered Users Posts: 11,035 ✭✭✭✭J Mysterio


    School definitely doesn't prepare you for life. It's about doing well academically. Then 5th year comes along and they tell you to choose a University course. What?

    For students who are totally unsure about what career they might like to embark upon they invariably do Arts. It's most similar to what they have been doing in school after all. I remember walking into a toilet cubicle in Belfield once and above the toilet roll dispenser it said 'Arts Degree, please take one'.

    There needs to be more time spent with students to have them seriously consider what their aptitudes are (academic, scientific, programmer, artistic, practical, outdoorsy) and how he/she can build a career doing what they like (and are good at). Not all students know from 13 that they want to be an Airline Pilot or Solicitor.

    I think there is an equivelant of CSPE (Civic, Social & Political Education) in schools now but that class was a joke. I did a state exam in it and one of the questions was 'who is the taoiseach?', beneath a picture of him. That subject needed serious revamping and should have been ungraded, more of a talking shop w/ activities and trips.

    I think School Counsellors and Career Guidance Experts need to be brought to the forefront in schools and potentially have their own department with specific responsibilites in a subject such as CSPE to work with kids.

    The Education system needs to be more comprehensive and well rounded and not just academia, academia, academia. I think we all accept kids are kids till 18 at least so why not let them develop? The more academically inclined are more than welcome to apply themselves anyway before proceedingnm to do their Masters and PH.D.

    The points system is broken also as it excludes certain students from doing what they would be good at or enjoy if they do not have a full ability in all their subjects. E.G a gifted art student may be excluded from course in Architecture if he cannot attain hight points in other unrelated subjects such Irish etc.


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    #109
    MRnotlob606
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭MRnotlob606


    BoatMad wrote: »
    I think schools should focus on the three Rs , then stream and separate kids with different aptitudes and abilities

    but I know this isn't popular !

    Instead its based on the three C's - Compulsion, Conformity and Complacency.


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    #110
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I met my wife there when we were 12. She was, by far and away, the most attractive woman in the class, the one everyone worshipped. I was, in fairness, no great shakes with the ladies. Eventually through friendship I wore her down and we first kissed when we were 17. Married at 29, child at 40.

    So yeah, school brought me the best thing in my life. Did it teach me much? Meh, I got a good Leaving Cert, did what I wanted at Uni, blah blah blah job and mortgage and the not so important stuff. But it gave me the best thing ever.

    Jesus, was I in a good place Friday evening!

    Sunday evening, black dog humping my leg...but actually I'd stand over every word. Still have a cold shudder every now and again when I think what might have happened if I didn't pluck up the courage 24 years ago. I'd have ended up with someone more...plain...which would be no big deal as the importance of looks passes in a relationship. But definitely someone without her intelligence or fire. And can't imagine anything worse than settling for someone dull.


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    #111
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #112
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,398 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Why should school prepare someone for life? that is the job of the parents surely. A school is an academic environment first and foremost, although sport and socialising is an important part of schooling as well, it is part of producing a well rounded person but only part.


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    #113
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    He said that was recent behaviour. It's the recent dumbing down (in part to make the LC more useful like the op would suggest) that probably causes this.

    You also tend to cherry pick your Pisa statistics. Ireland is above the average.


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    #114
    PistolsAtDawn
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭PistolsAtDawn


    Mister Vain wrote: »
    The majority of maths is completely useless. I haven't used or needed it since I finished school.

    Man this post is ignorant. Apologies, but the first sentence of your above statement is so wrong you wouldn't believe.


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    #115
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #116
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #117
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,398 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Yes you do have a point, but it is the projection of almost everything on to schools: Sex education, financial literacy, healthy eating, preventing bullying, mental health, career guidance of.. the tell them what exact career they should be perusing. Thats not ever a comprehensive list.


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    #118
    conorhal
    Registered Users Posts: 6,987 ✭✭✭conorhal


    entropi wrote: »
    I honestly believe some schooling should be done to relate to real world problems, like budgeting, learner driving, c.v and interview prep (going on to college or not, its an essential thing), diet & nutrition, and methods of relaxation including yoga or meditation techniques lifted from sports psychology. I also would like to see that anyone who would have an interest in programming, allowed to take it as a class. In a world increasingly dependent on technology, programming is always going to be around, and can instantly allow access to employment if someone continues down that path. I also received sex education classes aged 11. This was incredibly helpful to me, and no doubt most of my class.

    School's job isn't to prepare you for life, life prepares you for life. I'm baffled and honestly worried by 'generation snowflake's' inability to function without hand holding. Most of us old farts managed to open a bank acount without blowing ourselves up and aquire many other life skills (like budgeting) that that living and learning teach you.
    There seems to be a bizzare notion that the function of a school is no longer that of educator but some kind of third party parenting arangement.


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    #119
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #120
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #121
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,398 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    conorhal wrote: »
    School's job isn't to prepare you for life, life prepares you for life. I'm baffled and honestly worried by 'generation snowflake's' inability to function without hand holding. Most of us old farts managed to open a bank acound without blowing ourselves up and aquire many other life skills (like budgeting) that that living and learning teach you.
    There seems to be a bizzare notion that the function of a school is no longer that of educator but some kind of third party parenting arangement.

    I think its a tad unfair to see it as some sort of special snowflake carry on, after all schools are only a product of the environment they operate in, plus modern society has become very complicated in a way I never had to experience when I was young.

    Career guidance is a good example, while a test might give you guidance about areas of competency and interest, it is not going to produce a named career, for example someone might discover they would have an interest in care work, however there are hundreds of care type careers, but more importantly why would anyone expect a test/school/someone else to tell them what careerer to aim for.


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