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Repossessed Cattle Auction(mod warning in op)

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2456

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    #32
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    He paid them 100k the 1500 was after the money lenders demanded the full amount


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    #33
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,504 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    BrokenArrows wrote: »
    how did they manage to keep 1000 cattle on 200 acres anyway.

    Everything i can find online says that you should have 1-2 cattle per acre of land. So they were overcrowding the land?

    They were probably in sheds.


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    #34
    HensVassal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,570 ✭✭✭HensVassal


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Nope, the taxpayer shouldn't bail them out. I've two mortgages. Should I stop paying so that you/the taxpayer will bail me out?

    It was a sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek comment mate. Banks incurred massive debts and you are on the hook for them because they got bailed by your taxes. Go into hock to the bank though and they take your cows. The latter is right. The former is wrong. That's all I was saying.


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    #35
    questionmark?
    Registered Users Posts: 3,074 ✭✭✭questionmark?


    WheatenBriar wrote: »
    To be fair,there are two sides to this story
    With the caveat of not knowing the details, going on what this farmer said on Sean o'Rourke this morning,this situation was solvable
    Acc initially verbally agreed an extra 250k and reneged on this
    He spent that extra based on the verbal
    Carrying that cashflow hole is what put the farm under pressure
    At one stage they offered him a 50% write down
    Presumably this was only doable with him closing ACC with a refinance from another bank (though he didnt say that part)
    In 09 with his cashflow at that stage in a mess,no bank would have done that so he ended up with yesterday

    You'd have to feel sorry for him as its hard not to think ACC behaved like a vulture fund

    So they spent €250k that they didn't have. Would it not have made sense to start selling off some land and cows to reduce the running costs and raise some funds instead of getting further into debt. I know you need money to make money but for feck sake know when to stop bringing on more debt.


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    #36
    HensVassal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,570 ✭✭✭HensVassal


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    We live in a country that still has the worst rate of mortgage arrears in the world and with a legal system that places every conceivable barrier to recovering the house as collateral for the debt.

    Simply put, if you stopped paying your mortgage it would likely be well over a decade of stringing the bank along before they got around to taking action, since there will be at least forty thousand cases in front of you.

    Ireland has the worst rate of mortgage arrears in the world?
    I find that hard to believe. Do you have a source?


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    #37
    HensVassal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,570 ✭✭✭HensVassal


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    They were probably in sheds.

    Probably in sheds. And what do you base that dumb statement on? Do you think that you can just store a half ton cow in a shed like an old car?


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    #38
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Knasher wrote: »
    I have some sympathy for them, simply because they are farmers and are probably not qualified to do much else, so it is hard to see where they go from here.

    Still it sounds like a problem of their own making, they had 1000 animals, and 200 acres, and couldn't start selling any of it off to service their debt?

    *Splutters*

    "Ah bejayesus haye!!

    Ya doun't sell land!!!!!"


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    #39
    relax carry on
    Registered Users Posts: 4,075 ✭✭✭relax carry on


    questionmark? wrote: »
    I know you need money to make money but for feck sake know when to stop bringing on more debt.

    Some people just can't see it that way. There are people who run up massive debts in business after business and its always someone else's fault. There are multitudes of people who are currently self employed entrepreneurs who are currently brining more debt on themselves to continue their dreams whatever the cost.


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    #40
    HensVassal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,570 ✭✭✭HensVassal


    WheatenBriar wrote: »
    To be fair,there are two sides to this story
    With the caveat of not knowing the details, going on what this farmer said on Sean o'Rourke this morning,this situation was solvable
    Acc initially verbally agreed an extra 250k and reneged on this
    He spent that extra based on the verbal
    Carrying that cashflow hole is what put the farm under pressure
    At one stage they offered him a 50% write down
    Presumably this was only doable with him closing ACC with a refinance from another bank (though he didnt say that part)
    In 09 with his cashflow at that stage in a mess,no bank would have done that so he ended up with yesterday

    You'd have to feel sorry for him as its hard not to think ACC behaved like a vulture fund

    Well copped.


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    #41
    MIKEKC
    Registered Users Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭MIKEKC


    WheatenBriar wrote: »
    To be fair,there are two sides to this story
    With the caveat of not knowing the details, going on what this farmer said on Sean o'Rourke this morning,this situation was solvable
    Acc initially verbally agreed an extra 250k and reneged on this
    He spent that extra based on the verbal
    Carrying that cashflow hole is what put the farm under pressure
    At one stage they offered him a 50% write down
    Presumably this was only doable with him closing ACC with a refinance from another bank (though he didnt say that part)
    In 09 with his cashflow at that stage in a mess,no bank would have done that so he ended up with yesterday

    You'd have to feel sorry for him as its hard not to think ACC behaved like a vulture fund
    How would anyone spend 250,000 on a verbal agreement. We only have the farmers word that there was an agreement


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    #42
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,504 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    HensVassal wrote: »
    Probably in sheds. And what do you base that dumb statement on? Do you think that you can just store a half ton cow in a shed like an old car?

    Ironic you call me dumb when it's obvious you know fook all about farming.

    Livestock are kept in slatted sheds in winter.


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    #43
    HensVassal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,570 ✭✭✭HensVassal


    ofcork wrote: »
    He was on the radio in cork this morning saying he offered to repay the full amount 4 times and was refused.

    Is this TRUE?


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    #44
    HensVassal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,570 ✭✭✭HensVassal


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    Ironic you call me dumb when it's obvious you know fook all about farming.

    Livestock are kept in slatted sheds in winter.

    Cows are kept in strawed stalls on either side of a well stocked silage installation all winter. They are billed in march/april for the following winter when they valve in late winter/early spring and milk heavily until November. Yeah I know a bit about dairy farming and I've never seen a cow, bullock, bull, or heifer stuck in a fcuking shed for the winter.


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    #45
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,504 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    HensVassal wrote: »
    Cows are kept in strawed stalls on either side of a well stocked silage installation all winter. They are billed in march/april for the following winter when they valve in late winter/early spring and milk heavily until November. Yeah I know a bit about dairy farming and I've never seen a cow, bullock, bull, or heifer stuck in a fcuking shed for the winter.

    Cattle are kept in slatted sheds in winter, dairy cows are different.

    I didn't realise it was a dairy herd.

    And you might want to learn some manners as well.


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    #46
    HensVassal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,570 ✭✭✭HensVassal


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    Ironic you call me dumb when it's obvious you know fook all about farming.

    Livestock are kept in slatted sheds in winter.

    I'll give you that some cattle are confined to a byre on sh1tty days and an animal lover farmer would douse them with straw and cow nuts and allow them out to crunch around for a few hours but no farmer locks up 100s of cows for a few months.


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    #47
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,746 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    I see today the price dairy farmers are paid for milk is being cut again. A few years ago the farmer was being paid around 34C to 35c per litre, Glanbia for example now have a milk market price they pay farmers at 22c per litre.

    I didn't like the way that the state and other groups in agriculture were pushing dairy farming, the talk of wanting 50% more output by 2020, but where were the markets? Needed more than China.

    So while people were getting in, I was getting out, it is like a rat race, you need to keep expanding to get stay put, and the costs involved in dairying are huge, banks were only too happy to lend to dairy farmers.
    I know a dairy farmer whom the bank lent millions to, he is doing ok as far as I know, but I would hate to take on such debt, hate as in wouldn't.

    There is a major crisis in dairy farming, was speaking to two neighbours this week who are dairy farmers, all talk about being worn out as it is really work intensive, not surprised the Kingstons won Ireland's fittest family...

    I suspect there are a lot more dairy farms in trouble who borrowed heavily to set up, only to see milk prices collapse.


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    #48
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,746 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    HensVassal wrote: »
    I'll give you that some cattle are confined to a byre on sh1tty days and an animal lover farmer would douse them with straw and cow nuts and allow them out to crunch around for a few hours but no farmer locks up 100s of cows for a few months.

    They sure do lock them up for months over winter or else the land would be destroyed.


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    #49
    stoplooklisten
    Registered Users Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭stoplooklisten


    They don't like moo-ving


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    #50
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    A lot of dairy herds are housed all year round in most countries. Ireland is the exception rather than the norm.


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    #51
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,258 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Well said Robert KK.
    Dairying, very though business. Price on the floor. Everyone telling farmer expand. He has to, to keep still. Pure threadmill and every one else making money off him.


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    #52
    mickdw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,333 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    HensVassal wrote: »
    ..... but no farmer locks up 100s of cows for a few months.

    I think you will find that they do.
    You will also find that they are grant aided to build the facilities to allow them to keep the cattle in all winter.
    It is getting to a stage that you cannot keep them out due to all the rules re keeping land in a certain condition.


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    #53
    Nekarsulm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,204 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    HensVassal wrote: »
    I'll give you that some cattle are confined to a byre on sh1tty days and an animal lover farmer would douse them with straw and cow nuts and allow them out to crunch around for a few hours but no farmer locks up 100s of cows for a few months.

    Hens, you are greatly mistaken. In general, all cattle spent an average of five months inside in a typical Irish winter. Go north of Mullingar and it can run nearer seven months inside.
    Did you even notice the three months continual rain we had this winter?
    Did you notice Athlone and large tracts of the country under water?
    Most cattle are housed on slats because there isn't enough strain the country to bed them all.


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    #54
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    Qiaonasen wrote: »
    Wish I came from the same place as you come from. Where I come from if you cannot pay your debts you get a tax payer funded bailout.

    Your place sounds much better, why would you want to move?


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    #55
    HamsterFace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 832 ✭✭✭HamsterFace


    The Backwards Man wrote: »
    A lot of dairy herds are housed all year round in most countries. Ireland is the exception rather than the norm.

    And that's exactly the type of farming we don't want!

    Our cattle are amongst the best in the world, and our dairy is the best in the world, as we have grass fed livestock spending most of the year outside.

    We don't want factory farms because not only do we lose our USP, but they're not particularly nice for the animal, and with the amount of surface water in our country we couldn't dispose of the waste without wrecking our rivers.

    1000 animals on 200 acres is insane, feck that for farming, glad others will be discouraged to follow suit


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    #56
    orm0nd
    Registered Users Posts: 4,189 ✭✭✭orm0nd


    BrokenArrows wrote: »
    From brief research cattle will sell for €1300 per head. 1.3million
    Land will be over €10,000 per acre. Sell a bit more than half the land. 1.1million
    Bam. Debt is paid and they still have nearly a million worth of land. **** them.

    NOTE: 1000 cattle and 200 acres is based on a previous post.


    another google warrior....


    no way would you sell a 1000 head in 1 go @ 1300, 700 would be more like it 800 the very tops

    sheriff's fees already 1.5 to 2.

    milk price is hitting rock bottom & most farmers are already heavily borrowed so realizing 10k /ac. is easier said than done


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    #57
    HensVassal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,570 ✭✭✭HensVassal


    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    Hens, you are greatly mistaken. In general, all cattle spent an average of five months inside in a typical Irish winter. Go north of Mullingar and it can run nearer seven months inside.
    Did you even notice the three months continual rain we had this winter?
    Did you notice Athlone and large tracts of the country under water?
    Most cattle are housed on slats because there isn't enough strain the country to bed them all.

    What I was talking about was the facilities for keeping them not in a field but in the byres connected on either side of a silage pit. They have cubicles to lie in but a free to roam in and out to the large concrete yard where they can consume the silage.


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    #58
    Nekarsulm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,204 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    HensVassal wrote: »
    What I was talking about was the facilities for keeping them not in a field but in the byres connected on either side of a silage pit. They have cubicles to lie in but a free to roam in and out to the large concrete yard where they can consume the silage.

    I remember those set-ups, had them myself
    Standard practice back in the 70's and 80's.
    Environmentalists and the Dept. Ag. killed off a lot of those yard designs.


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    #59
    BrokenArrows
    Registered Users Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭BrokenArrows


    RobertKK wrote: »
    I see today the price dairy farmers are paid for milk is being cut again. A few years ago the farmer was being paid around 34C to 35c per litre, Glanbia for example now have a milk market price they pay farmers at 22c per litre.

    I didn't like the way that the state and other groups in agriculture were pushing dairy farming, the talk of wanting 50% more output by 2020, but where were the markets? Needed more than China.

    So while people were getting in, I was getting out, it is like a rat race, you need to keep expanding to get stay put, and the costs involved in dairying are huge, banks were only too happy to lend to dairy farmers.
    I know a dairy farmer whom the bank lent millions to, he is doing ok as far as I know, but I would hate to take on such debt, hate as in wouldn't.

    There is a major crisis in dairy farming, was speaking to two neighbours this week who are dairy farmers, all talk about being worn out as it is really work intensive, not surprised the Kingstons won Ireland's fittest family...

    I suspect there are a lot more dairy farms in trouble who borrowed heavily to set up, only to see milk prices collapse.

    Why isnt milk priced on the open market?
    Why are farmers given a guaranteed price at all?


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    #60
    Brendan Bendar
    Registered Users Posts: 19,272 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/50-years-work-is-being-destroyed-in-front-of-my-very-eyes-irelands-fittest-family-forced-to-sell-1000-prized-dairy-cows-34619714.html

    I feel bad for the family involved but I really don't understand what the protests are about here.

    The family has debts, very large debts. They aren't making the agreed repayments. The normal thing in those circumstances is that if the agreed repayments aren't being made, the bank can sell off assets to recover the debt.

    As a person with two mortgages I fully understand that if I can't pay my debts I will lose my property. Doesn't everybody who takes out a loan/mortgage understand this?

    Why is there such outrage?

    If the bank didn't repossess property/assets when debts aren't paid, then nobody would pay their debts.

    With you on that post lad.


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    #61
    xLisaBx
    Registered Users Posts: 901 ✭✭✭xLisaBx


    I was working on this sale. The state that some of the cattle were in due to the malnutrition was appalling.


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