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Mother jailed for neglect and assault on her children

2456

Comments

  • #32
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    PLL wrote: »
    I was neglected and assaulted by my mother, similar scenarios to this. She would also blackmail to say/do things threatening to walk in front of a car if I didn't agree. She brought men home in the afternoon to have sex, tried to have sex with my friends. It goes on.

    Anyways, I'm an anxious wreck, my mom travels the world now, hasn't said sorry for anything in the 7 years since I've left. The sentence does seem short for child abuse, but honestly it's the justice and acknowledgement of their neglect that matters more, now they have that. It might not make sense to some people but from my experience many people have commented about how strange it is that I haven't made up with my mother. Now not everyone knows all the details but the hardest thing to overcome is people not realising a victim of something and treating me accordingly. I've never said that out loud, I'm not looking for attention. I'm just trying to say that as I can relate to their experiences it wouldn't be the sentence length that would be important, it would be the acknowledgement of the pain experienced. It's something I'll never have, as people just don't believe mother's can be so evil, they just think I'm exaggarating. Christ I wish I was. My partner's mother got me an easter egg the first year we were together and I howled crying for hours, why did my mom not love me enough to want to make me happy?

    Sorry for the length!

    Maybe she never learned how to be a mother, maybe she had problems in her life, maybe addiction, maybe lots of things. It was nothing to do with how lovable you were That is certain. I wish you all the best.


  • #33
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    FortySeven wrote: »
    Strange that this has come up now to be honest. I went to visit my father for the first time in 25 years last September. He had been diagnosed with terminal cancer and I felt some strange responsibility. The resulting severe depression I suffered over the next three months played a large part in my partner leaving with my children and nearly cost me my home and my job. I had no idea it would affect me like that. I thought I had put it behind me.

    Last night I got a phone call from my sister to say he is almost dead. 1 to 3 weeks prognosis. She told me he is being conciliatory about the past. This broke me if I am honest and I am currently in an emotional tailspin of massive proportions. God knows how I'm going to react when he dies but I will not be going to the funeral.

    Abuse is for life. It doesn't leave. It doesn't get easier. It's hard to explain really. The statistics surrounding abused children are frankly terrifying. Most are lost to society for a long, long time. Drugs, drink, crime, suicide and saddest of all, becoming abusers themselves.

    I was fostered for a while too. It was ok. They couldn't deal with me smoking at 12. A habit I picked up in the home. They sent me back after a few months.

    Did your partner leave after a couple of months of depression? Did you explain the situation with your father? Had you been having problems previously? Sorry to ask so many personal questions it is just you have spoken so openly


  • #34
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,174 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    PLL wrote: »
    I was neglected and assaulted by my mother, similar scenarios to this. She would also blackmail to say/do things threatening to walk in front of a car if I didn't agree. She brought men home in the afternoon to have sex, tried to have sex with my friends. It goes on.

    Anyways, I'm an anxious wreck, my mom travels the world now, hasn't said sorry for anything in the 7 years since I've left. The sentence does seem short for child abuse, but honestly it's the justice and acknowledgement of their neglect that matters more, now they have that. It might not make sense to some people but from my experience many people have commented about how strange it is that I haven't made up with my mother. Now not everyone knows all the details but the hardest thing to overcome is people not realising a victim of something and treating me accordingly. I've never said that out loud, I'm not looking for attention. I'm just trying to say that as I can relate to their experiences it wouldn't be the sentence length that would be important, it would be the acknowledgement of the pain experienced. It's something I'll never have, as people just don't believe mother's can be so evil, they just think I'm exaggarating. Christ I wish I was. My partner's mother got me an easter egg the first year we were together and I howled crying for hours, why did my mom not love me enough to want to make me happy?

    Sorry for the length!

    Don't ever feel under any obligation to your parents, don't feel any guilt.
    Love them or hate them, or feel nothing. That's up to you & whatever you do feel is right.
    Move on as best you can & make the most of your life despite them.
    I find that's the best way to deal with it.


  • #35
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    FortySeven wrote: »
    Family court has some blame. 5 years they were aware of this but she was allowed return to the home regardless.

    Can't see anything about this in the link in the OP?

    You got a link or source?


  • #36
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,295 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Can't see anything about this in the link in the OP?

    You got a link or source?

    It came up on Vincent Brown last night. A short piece.


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  • #37
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    FortySeven wrote: »
    It came up on Vincent Brown last night. A short piece.

    Is there a suggestion that this had been before the family courts and applications by the HSE refused?


  • #38
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,426 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Candie wrote:
    Neither of them should see the light of day for a very long time, the mother especially.

    It takes mental illness, personality disorder, trauma, brain damage or some other form of abnormality to do the things she did. Prison might not be in the best interest of the woman or the state (taxpayers).

    I hope the children are well looked after and end up in loving homes.


  • #39
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    It takes mental illness, personality disorder, trauma, brain damage or some other form of abnormality to do the things she did. Prison might not be in the best interest of the woman or the state (taxpayers).

    I hope the children are well looked after and end up in loving homes.


    There is no excuse for what they did. Illness, whatever. You don't push a toddler down the stairs, or threathen to run them down with your car and get to blame it on "not being well". There's being sick and being evil. And those 7 kids have got to live with the fall out for the rest of their lives.


  • #40
    deseil
    Closed Accounts Posts: 333 ✭✭deseil


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    It takes mental illness, personality disorder, trauma, brain damage or some other form of abnormality to do the things she did. Prison might not be in the best interest of the woman or the state (taxpayers).

    I hope the children are well looked after and end up in loving homes.

    No it doesnt why do these things always have to be explained by illness, brain disorder etc
    The sooner the better we all start seeing that some people are just bad. No excuse!

    Disgusting woman.


  • #41
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    deseil wrote: »
    No it doesnt why do these things always have to be explained by illness, brain disorder etc
    The sooner the better we all start seeing that some people are just bad. No excuse!

    Disgusting woman.

    But why are they bad? What can be done to stop People from becoming bad. I don't believe anyone is born bad. All babies are innocent and inclined to be good


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  • #42
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    Plain evil. She was well enough to try cover it up wasn't she


  • #43
    cowboyBuilder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,419 ✭✭✭cowboyBuilder


    What an absolute kunt,

    she had 6 kids.

    yeah - why am I not surprised?


  • #44
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,426 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    deseil wrote:
    No it doesnt why do these things always have to be explained by illness, brain disorder etc The sooner the better we all start seeing that some people are just bad. No excuse!

    If someone tries to excuse anything she did, then you let me know.

    Explanations on the other hand are the first step to preventing the harm from occurring in the future with this same person or anyone else.
    LexieOnRale wrote:
    There is no excuse for what they did. Illness, whatever. You don't push a toddler down the stairs, or threathen to run them down with your car and get to blame it on "not being well". There's being sick and being evil. And those 7 kids have got to live with the fall out for the rest of their lives.

    See above regarding excuses.

    What if being sick caused behaviours that you would describe as evil? Does illness cease once evilness can be attributed? Could committing acts of evil cure brain damage? Of course not so you have to deal with reality.

    I dont think a person with a normally functioning brain would even consider doing those things to a child.


  • #45
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,295 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Is there a suggestion that this had been before the family courts and applications by the HSE refused?

    I heard them saying it was old school thinking that the mother couldn't possibly do wrong and that it had been missed for 5 years but I was busy at the time so didn't hear the rest. They were doing the newspaper front pages.


  • #46
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,295 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    It takes mental illness, personality disorder, trauma, brain damage or some other form of abnormality to do the things she did. Prison might not be in the best interest of the woman or the state (taxpayers).

    I hope the children are well looked after and end up in loving homes.

    Not true. Many abusers are perfectly normal functioning members of society. Plenty of people with many of the issues you listed (myself included) manage just fine without inflicting this kind of barbarity on our offspring.


  • #47
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    If someone tries to excuse anything she did, then you let me know.

    Explanations on the other hand are the first step to preventing the harm from occurring in the future with this same person or anyone else.



    See above regarding excuses.

    What if being sick caused behaviours that you would describe as evil? Does illness cease once evilness can be attributed? Could committing acts of evil cure brain damage? Of course not so you have to deal with reality.

    I dont think a person with a normally functioning brain would even consider doing those things to a child.

    Funny how she was well enough to know not to do it to people who could defend themselves. She was well enough to try cover it up.


  • #48
    Pique
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,044 ✭✭✭Pique


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    She was well enough to try cover it up.
    And tried to blame her daughter to get herself out of trouble! How low can you get?


  • #49
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    Funny how she was well enough to know not to do it to people who could defend themselves. She was well enough to try cover it up.

    That is a very important point if the parent has the insight to hid what they are doing then at some level they know if they are caught there will be consonances. They may not feel any remorse or feel it is wrong but they know to hide the behaviour.

    The fact that they hid the behaviour and did not seek help should be a factor in deciding the sentencing.

    The fact that the parent had a poor upbringing and had mental health issues and addictions is a factor but it is only one factor.


  • #50
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    I think it's about power tbh. Both parties should be in jail. I hope the kids get a decent start in life now that these pair are gone.


  • #51
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,426 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    FortySeven wrote:
    Not true. Many abusers are perfectly normal functioning members of society. Plenty of people with many of the issues you listed (myself included) manage just fine without inflicting this kind of barbarity on our offspring.

    Not all people with mental illness will do something like this. Anyone who does something like this, almost certainly has one of the conditions mentioned.

    Of course most people with mental illness get along just fine in normal society.

    It's normal to be overcome by chemicals which cause a bond of love with your own children. Inflicting this kind of prolonged torture on children is only likely to happen in the absence of that normal process. Ergo not normal brain functioning. Her behaviours are still repulsive.

    Call it evil if you like but it's a very simplistic way to view it and offers no way to understand the behaviour and prevent it happening in future.

    Pitchforks and torches is probably more satisfying than trying to understand and prevent it in future. Depends on your priorities I suppose


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  • #52
    IvyTheTerrible
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭IvyTheTerrible


    I don't understand how the guy didn't get jail. There was a case here recently where a dad killed his 3 year old after years of physical abuse (by putting him in the washing machine :( ) and the mother got jail time for not stopping him (even though the man regularly kicked 7 shades of ****e out of her). Does Ireland have a "not assisting a person in danger" law?


  • #53
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Not all people with mental illness will do something like this. Anyone who does something like this, almost certainly has one of the conditions mentioned.

    Of course most people with mental illness get along just fine in normal society.

    It's normal to be overcome by chemicals which cause a bond of love with your own children. Inflicting this kind of prolonged torture on children is only likely to happen in the absence of that normal process. Ergo not normal brain functioning. Her behaviours are still repulsive.

    Call it evil if you like but it's a very simplistic way to view it and offers no way to understand the behaviour and prevent it happening in future.

    Pitchforks and torches is probably more satisfying than trying to understand and prevent it in future. Depends on your priorities I suppose

    That all true, however the issue of having the insight to hide what they were doing does indicate some level of understanding.

    Having metal health issues is not some sort of get out of jail free card.

    Lots of people brought up in horrific circumstance grow up to be decent people and good parents, so in cases like this there is something else going on.


  • #54
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,426 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    mariaalice wrote:
    That all true, however the issue of having the insight to hide what they were doing does indicate some level of understanding.

    Speak with the poster I quoted above. They live with one of the conditions I mentioned and get along fine in society. The woman wasn't institutionalised so we know she was able to survive on her own and do normal tasks. That doesn't mean she is mentally normal which is demonstrated by her doing these things to her children. Covering up her behaviour doesn't mean she has to have normal mental or psychological functioning. We already know she could do some of the basics.

    Mental illness is not all-or-nothing.
    mariaalice wrote:
    Having metal health issues is not some sort of get out of jail free card.

    Do you mean get off scott-free or just don't send them to prison? Because insanity dies mean not going to normal prison but doesn't mean getting off scott-free
    mariaalice wrote:
    Lots of people brought up in horrific circumstance grow up to be decent people and good parents, so in cases like this there is something else going on.

    Let's hope the children manage to do that. They need lots of help


  • #55
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    FortySeven wrote: »
    I heard them saying it was old school thinking that the mother couldn't possibly do wrong and that it had been missed for 5 years but I was busy at the time so didn't hear the rest...

    This must be one of the most significant aspects.

    You said it was before the family courts for 5 years. Surely if it was, then the parties involved in that process may have questions to answer. Did the HSE press cases strongly enough? Were applications refused? Why was it before the Courts for that length of time?

    The news I've read and heard contained no such suggestion that the family law courts were involved at all.


  • #56
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Speak with the poster I quoted above. They live with one of the conditions I mentioned and get along fine in society. The woman wasn't institutionalised so we know she was able to survive on her own and do normal tasks. That doesn't mean she is mentally normal which is demonstrated by her doing these things to her children. Covering up her behaviour doesn't mean she has to have normal mental or psychological functioning. We already know she could do some of the basics.

    Mental illness is not all-or-nothing.



    Do you mean get off scott-free or just don't send them to prison? Because insanity dies mean not going to normal prison but doesn't mean getting off scott-free



    Let's hope the children manage to do that. They need lots of help

    But that is the point, mental health issues are a continuum and the parent hiding what they were doing is a significant factor, it is not indicating that they know what they were doing was abnormal and wrong, it indicates that they know society would impose consequences if the parent was caught abusing the children and they prioritised a drinking and boundary free lifestyle over parenting the children.


  • #57
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    As for it being about power, that could be the roots of some of it.

    The roots of 'evil' start with bullying i.e taking sadistic pleasure in having power over someone, perhaps that was what was happing in that family.

    The only solution is to prevent the means and opportunity for a parent to behave like that, you can not prevent the motive.


  • #58
    thattequilagirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭thattequilagirl


    She should be jailed and have psychological treatment- it's not an either/or.


  • #59
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,426 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    mariaalice wrote:
    But that is the point, mental health issues are a continuum and the parent hiding what they were doing is a significant factor, it is not indicating that they know what they were doing was abnormal and wrong, it indicates that they know society would impose consequences if the parent was caught abusing the children and they prioritised a drinking and boundary free lifestyle over parenting the children.

    Exactly. They can know that society will impose sanctions without understanding the moral wrongness or the harm they have done to the children.

    Society will take away her freedom, socially shun her. If she has a job or status they will take them too. Acting to avoid those consequences is not the same as understanding the morality or harm she caused
    thattequilagirl wrote:
    She should be jailed and have psychological treatment- it's not an either/or.

    If prison is the most appropriate place, then sure, send her there. Psychological treatment is the more essential component though.


  • #60
    The One Doctor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,322 ✭✭✭The One Doctor


    thattequilagirl wrote: »
    She should be jailed and have psychological treatment- it's not an either/or.

    Actually it is an either/or in Ireland. Either you get sent to a special institution some people with severe mental health issues and a history of violence (i.e, the Central Mental Hospital in Dundrum) or you're sent to jail. That vast majority go to jail and get little or no rehabilitation.

    When the mother mentioned in the report gets out she'll begin a long campain to get her kids back, and chances are she'll get at least one child back to abuse.

    The really sad point here is that violence creates violence. The mother was probably abused as a child and thus she did the same to her own children. In turn, there's a chance that her children will in turn abuse others. However, that is not a foregone conclusion if they get the right care.

    If there are any parents reading this who hurt their children, either mentally or physically - you are doing huge long term damage to defenceless child(ren). Please go and get help for yourself and realise the horrifying life you are giving your child now.


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  • #61
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The One Doctor wrote: »
    chances are she'll get at least one child back to abuse...

    Where did you see that?

    I certainly am not sure one could say chances are she will recover custody of any of the children. At all. I would imagine Tusla will be all over her.


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