Mother jailed for neglect and assault on her children

Specialun

Surprised to not see a thread on this

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0411/781070-galway-circuit-criminal-court-neglect-assault/

Seems like a very light sentence for such brutal neglect and care

Pique

Concurrent sentences are a ****ing joke. Hope the DPP appeals the leniency here.

What a bitch!

Lisha

Too short a sentence but why did they husband just get a suspended sentence.

He stood by and let her do it. He is as guilty as her.

Poor kids I hope they are living a life free from fear aNd in peace. Best of luck to them.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

That's beyond disgusting. An utter monster to do that to her own flesh and blood.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I mean if you cannot trust your own mother?
And what's really sad is - these kids didn't know any better. It's not like they would realise how awful she was, and how they did not deserve any of that, because that's how they grew up and not many children hate their parents

I feel sick reading that. No sentence is enough for hurting little kids.

How her co-accused got a suspended sentence is a mystery. Plead guilty to five charges, and no jail time because he's trying to build bridges with his own kids - should he be near kids at all with a conviction for assaulting kids?

Specialun

The state need to accept some responsibility in this. The mother was reported years ago and kept down playing the seriousness

Lisha

Lisha wrote: »

Too short a sentence but why did they husband just get a suspended sentence.

He stood by and let her do it. He is as guilty as her.

Poor kids I hope they are living a life free from fear aNd in peace. Best of luck to them.

He plead guilty to five assaults too, he didn't just stand by.

Neither of them should see the light of day for a very long time, the mother especially.

FizzleSticks

This post has been deleted.

Lisha

Candie wrote: »

He plead guilty to five assaults too, he didn't just stand by.

Neither of them should see the light of day for a very long time, the mother especially.

What I meant by 'stand by' was that he didn't seem to intervene or stop her at all.
He only pleaded guilty to lessen his own sentence. A horrible case . So sad that any one could be so callous to children is heartbreaking.

FortySeven

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I mean if you cannot trust your own mother?
And what's really sad is - these kids didn't know any better. It's not like they would realise how awful she was, and how they did not deserve any of that, because that's how they grew up and not many children hate their parents

Exactly this. Those poor kids are never going to appreciate life the way most do. No amount of counselling ever stops the fear or the self loathing they are now going to have to endure for a lifetime. 4 years? Absolutely disgusting. People get four years for a serious assault on one adult. Sentences should be multiples of the equivalent adult crime when it is children involved. As for suspended sentences, where to begin?

vicwatson

Concurrent sentencing **** right off

FizzleSticks

FizzleSticks wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

It wasn't a family court, it was a criminal prosecution.

FortySeven

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It wasn't a family court, it was a criminal prosecution.

Family court has some blame. 5 years they were aware of this but she was allowed return to the home regardless.

The co accused was father to some of the kids, not all.
So I assume he wasn't there for some of this abuse.

The worst thing about the whole lot is that 7 kids are all split up now, in different foster homes.
Would be great if they could be together

melissak

bubblypop wrote: »

The co accused was father to some of the kids, not all.
So I assume he wasn't there for some of this abuse.

The worst thing about the whole lot is that 7 kids are all split up now, in different foster homes.
Would be great if they could be together

Where would they be better though. In care homes? Could a foster parent take 7? Such a toughie, a family environment would be better but keeping them together is important too. Having said that they are all school age so the time after school and homework etc before bed they had together during the week would be minimal. Maybe weekend respite all together would be best. Who knows. Very sad all round

dublinman1990

Absolutely disgusted reading that. The parents should be locked up in a mental asylum & should be sterilized for what they did to their own kids.

To do abuse like this to their kids is despicable & unwarranted. They did not deserve that treatment at all under any circumstances.

The best of luck to the kids who have gone through this horrific ordeal. I hope that they have a happy life for the future.

KERSPLAT!

Wouldn't even be able to read that

Just shows you, Irish society thought this type of thing was in the past.
This all happened in the last 10 years or so

melissak

bubblypop wrote: »

Just shows you, Irish society thought this type of thing was in the past.
This all happened in the last 10 years or so

Who thought that? Because all other violence and crime has decreased?

melissak

melissak wrote: »

Where would they be better though. In care homes? Could a foster parent take 7? Such a toughie, a family environment would be better but keeping them together is important too. Having said that they are all school age so the time after school and homework etc before bed they had together during the week would be minimal. Maybe weekend respite all together would be best. Who knows. Very sad all round

Yea it's tough, but maybe a care home where they could all live together might be better?

Of course, there are issues with the different kids & they way they interact.
It could be a child protection issue of course

melissak

melissak wrote: »

Who thought that? Because all other violence and crime has decreased?

I'd imagine most people believed there were enough protections in place that something like this wouldn't happen.

melissak

bubblypop wrote: »

I'd imagine most people believed there were enough protections in place that something like this wouldn't happen.

I doubt most people are that naive as to think that without being inside of everyone's home all of that something like anything could be made Never happen.

FortySeven

melissak wrote: »

Where would they be better though. In care homes? Such a toughie, a family environment would be better but keeping them together is important too. Having said that they are all school age so the time after school and homework etc before bed they had together during the week would be minimal. Maybe weekend respite all together would be best. Who knows. Very sad all round

I spent some time growing up in a kids home with some of the kids from the Orkney devil worshipping scandal. They never even suffered any abuse but the family break up and subsequent years in institutions had profound and irreversible effects on their lives. It is not really possible to put these things right. They were seprated from their siblings just because one home could not cater for so many. It will be the same for these seven. Too many to be kept in one place.

I experienced similar abuse as a child and was also seperated from my sister. This was over 20 years ago and we are still trying to find normality in our relationship.

I feel for those kids. Life will not be kind to them.

melissak

FortySeven wrote: »

I spent some time growing up in a kids home with some of the kids from the Orkney devil worshipping scandal. They never even suffered any abuse but the family break up and subsequent years in institutions had profound and irreversible effects on their lives. It is not really possible to put these things right. They were seprated from their siblings just because one home could not cater for so many. It will be the same for these seven. Too many to be kept in one place.

I experienced similar abuse as a child and was also seperated from my sister. This was over 20 years ago and we are still trying to find normality in our relationship.

I feel for those kids. Life will not be kind to them.

What would have been better for You? If you were in charge of your situation as a child what would you do?
They would Have weekend visitation rights to each other wouldn't they?
Edit to add, there might not be a thread because the kids might read this and feel worse.

FortySeven

melissak wrote: »

What would have been better for You? If you were in charge of your situation as a child what would you do?

Interviews away from parents with social work. This was the crux of nothing being done for years. My father had the right to stay in the room during questioning even after I ran away from home at 9. He got worse after that. Also more communication between agencies. It seems the family in question moved around. So did mine. One step ahead of the services. Kids in these situations are full of fear and unlikely to speak to teachers, doctors etc. To them it is normal to be abused. They don't know it shouldn't be happening but telltale signs are always there. Some teachers or doctors will recognise the signs many won't.

As for the home. Best thing ever in my case. I'm sure it will be for them too. They are safe and have instant professional support. It won't fix them but at least it stops the abuse. Now they will just feel rejected, isolated, different and very, very lonely.

Losing their patent will hurt, no matter the abuse. Shift changing care workers can never replace a parent. No matter how abusive.

melissak

FortySeven wrote: »

Interviews away from parents with social work. This was the crux of nothing being done for years. My father had the right to stay in the room during questioning even after I ran away from home at 9. He got worse after that. Also more communication between agencies. It seems the family in question moved around. So did mine. One step ahead of the services. Kids in these situations are full of fear and unlikely to speak to teachers, doctors etc. To them it is normal to be abused. They don't know it shouldn't be happening but telltale signs are always there. Some teachers or doctors will recognise the signs many won't.

As for the home. Best thing ever in my case. I'm sure it will be for them too. They are safe and have instant professional support. It won't fix them but at least it stops the abuse. Now they will just feel rejected, isolated, different and very, very lonely.

Losing their patent will hurt, no matter the abuse. Shift changing care workers can never replace a parent. No matter how abusive.

But institutional care in Ireland has been very bad in Ireland as scandals show, Is it long ago that you were in care do you mind me Asking? We're they religiously run in your time? Forgive my ignorance on the subject. I have not heard many good news stories about care homes but of course there would be.

FortySeven

melissak wrote: »

But institutional care in Ireland has been very bad in Ireland as scandals show, Is it long ago that you were in care do you mind me Asking? We're they religiously run in your time? Forgive my ignorance on the subject. I have not heard many good news stories about care homes but of course there would be.

I was in Scotland. Non religious. Late eighties early nineties. I know homes here used to be bad but I have to assume changes were made after the scandals. Surely?
Child protection legislation here is certainly as robust as any Europe wide and is constantly reviewed. I would hope the care homes have moved with the times.

melissak

FortySeven wrote: »

I was in Scotland. Non religious. Late eighties early nineties. I know homes here used to be bad but I have to assume changes were made after the scandals. Surely?
Child protection legislation here is certainly as robust as any Europe wide and is constantly reviewed. I would hope the care homes have moved with the times.

Maybe they have but it would be hard for irish people to support institutionalised care homes again, I think foster homes are more usual here, are they not? Did you have a relationship with your parents again?

PLL

I was neglected and assaulted by my mother, similar scenarios to this. She would also blackmail to say/do things threatening to walk in front of a car if I didn't agree. She brought men home in the afternoon to have sex, tried to have sex with my friends. It goes on.

Anyways, I'm an anxious wreck, my mom travels the world now, hasn't said sorry for anything in the 7 years since I've left. The sentence does seem short for child abuse, but honestly it's the justice and acknowledgement of their neglect that matters more, now they have that. It might not make sense to some people but from my experience many people have commented about how strange it is that I haven't made up with my mother. Now not everyone knows all the details but the hardest thing to overcome is people not realising a victim of something and treating me accordingly. I've never said that out loud, I'm not looking for attention. I'm just trying to say that as I can relate to their experiences it wouldn't be the sentence length that would be important, it would be the acknowledgement of the pain experienced. It's something I'll never have, as people just don't believe mother's can be so evil, they just think I'm exaggarating. Christ I wish I was. My partner's mother got me an easter egg the first year we were together and I howled crying for hours, why did my mom not love me enough to want to make me happy?

Sorry for the length!

FortySeven

melissak wrote: »

Maybe they have but it would be hard for irish people to support institutionalised care homes again, I think foster homes are more usual here, are they not? Did you have a relationship with your parents again?

Strange that this has come up now to be honest. I went to visit my father for the first time in 25 years last September. He had been diagnosed with terminal cancer and I felt some strange responsibility. The resulting severe depression I suffered over the next three months played a large part in my partner leaving with my children and nearly cost me my home and my job. I had no idea it would affect me like that. I thought I had put it behind me.

Last night I got a phone call from my sister to say he is almost dead. 1 to 3 weeks prognosis. She told me he is being conciliatory about the past. This broke me if I am honest and I am currently in an emotional tailspin of massive proportions. God knows how I'm going to react when he dies but I will not be going to the funeral.

Abuse is for life. It doesn't leave. It doesn't get easier. It's hard to explain really. The statistics surrounding abused children are frankly terrifying. Most are lost to society for a long, long time. Drugs, drink, crime, suicide and saddest of all, becoming abusers themselves.

I was fostered for a while too. It was ok. They couldn't deal with me smoking at 12. A habit I picked up in the home. They sent me back after a few months.

melissak

PLL wrote: »

I was neglected and assaulted by my mother, similar scenarios to this. She would also blackmail to say/do things threatening to walk in front of a car if I didn't agree. She brought men home in the afternoon to have sex, tried to have sex with my friends. It goes on.

Anyways, I'm an anxious wreck, my mom travels the world now, hasn't said sorry for anything in the 7 years since I've left. The sentence does seem short for child abuse, but honestly it's the justice and acknowledgement of their neglect that matters more, now they have that. It might not make sense to some people but from my experience many people have commented about how strange it is that I haven't made up with my mother. Now not everyone knows all the details but the hardest thing to overcome is people not realising a victim of something and treating me accordingly. I've never said that out loud, I'm not looking for attention. I'm just trying to say that as I can relate to their experiences it wouldn't be the sentence length that would be important, it would be the acknowledgement of the pain experienced. It's something I'll never have, as people just don't believe mother's can be so evil, they just think I'm exaggarating. Christ I wish I was. My partner's mother got me an easter egg the first year we were together and I howled crying for hours, why did my mom not love me enough to want to make me happy?

Sorry for the length!

Maybe she never learned how to be a mother, maybe she had problems in her life, maybe addiction, maybe lots of things. It was nothing to do with how lovable you were That is certain. I wish you all the best.

melissak

FortySeven wrote: »

Strange that this has come up now to be honest. I went to visit my father for the first time in 25 years last September. He had been diagnosed with terminal cancer and I felt some strange responsibility. The resulting severe depression I suffered over the next three months played a large part in my partner leaving with my children and nearly cost me my home and my job. I had no idea it would affect me like that. I thought I had put it behind me.

Last night I got a phone call from my sister to say he is almost dead. 1 to 3 weeks prognosis. She told me he is being conciliatory about the past. This broke me if I am honest and I am currently in an emotional tailspin of massive proportions. God knows how I'm going to react when he dies but I will not be going to the funeral.

Abuse is for life. It doesn't leave. It doesn't get easier. It's hard to explain really. The statistics surrounding abused children are frankly terrifying. Most are lost to society for a long, long time. Drugs, drink, crime, suicide and saddest of all, becoming abusers themselves.

I was fostered for a while too. It was ok. They couldn't deal with me smoking at 12. A habit I picked up in the home. They sent me back after a few months.

Did your partner leave after a couple of months of depression? Did you explain the situation with your father? Had you been having problems previously? Sorry to ask so many personal questions it is just you have spoken so openly

PLL

PLL wrote: »

I was neglected and assaulted by my mother, similar scenarios to this. She would also blackmail to say/do things threatening to walk in front of a car if I didn't agree. She brought men home in the afternoon to have sex, tried to have sex with my friends. It goes on.

Anyways, I'm an anxious wreck, my mom travels the world now, hasn't said sorry for anything in the 7 years since I've left. The sentence does seem short for child abuse, but honestly it's the justice and acknowledgement of their neglect that matters more, now they have that. It might not make sense to some people but from my experience many people have commented about how strange it is that I haven't made up with my mother. Now not everyone knows all the details but the hardest thing to overcome is people not realising a victim of something and treating me accordingly. I've never said that out loud, I'm not looking for attention. I'm just trying to say that as I can relate to their experiences it wouldn't be the sentence length that would be important, it would be the acknowledgement of the pain experienced. It's something I'll never have, as people just don't believe mother's can be so evil, they just think I'm exaggarating. Christ I wish I was. My partner's mother got me an easter egg the first year we were together and I howled crying for hours, why did my mom not love me enough to want to make me happy?

Sorry for the length!

Don't ever feel under any obligation to your parents, don't feel any guilt.
Love them or hate them, or feel nothing. That's up to you & whatever you do feel is right.
Move on as best you can & make the most of your life despite them.
I find that's the best way to deal with it.

FortySeven

FortySeven wrote: »

Family court has some blame. 5 years they were aware of this but she was allowed return to the home regardless.

Can't see anything about this in the link in the OP?

You got a link or source?

FortySeven

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Can't see anything about this in the link in the OP?

You got a link or source?

It came up on Vincent Brown last night. A short piece.

FortySeven

FortySeven wrote: »

It came up on Vincent Brown last night. A short piece.

Is there a suggestion that this had been before the family courts and applications by the HSE refused?

El_Duderino 09

Candie wrote:

Neither of them should see the light of day for a very long time, the mother especially.

It takes mental illness, personality disorder, trauma, brain damage or some other form of abnormality to do the things she did. Prison might not be in the best interest of the woman or the state (taxpayers).

I hope the children are well looked after and end up in loving homes.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It takes mental illness, personality disorder, trauma, brain damage or some other form of abnormality to do the things she did. Prison might not be in the best interest of the woman or the state (taxpayers).

I hope the children are well looked after and end up in loving homes.

There is no excuse for what they did. Illness, whatever. You don't push a toddler down the stairs, or threathen to run them down with your car and get to blame it on "not being well". There's being sick and being evil. And those 7 kids have got to live with the fall out for the rest of their lives.

deseil

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It takes mental illness, personality disorder, trauma, brain damage or some other form of abnormality to do the things she did. Prison might not be in the best interest of the woman or the state (taxpayers).

I hope the children are well looked after and end up in loving homes.

No it doesnt why do these things always have to be explained by illness, brain disorder etc
The sooner the better we all start seeing that some people are just bad. No excuse!

Disgusting woman.

melissak

deseil wrote: »

No it doesnt why do these things always have to be explained by illness, brain disorder etc
The sooner the better we all start seeing that some people are just bad. No excuse!

Disgusting woman.

But why are they bad? What can be done to stop People from becoming bad. I don't believe anyone is born bad. All babies are innocent and inclined to be good

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Plain evil. She was well enough to try cover it up wasn't she

cowboyBuilder

What an absolute kunt,

she had 6 kids.

yeah - why am I not surprised?

El_Duderino 09

deseil wrote:

No it doesnt why do these things always have to be explained by illness, brain disorder etc The sooner the better we all start seeing that some people are just bad. No excuse!

If someone tries to excuse anything she did, then you let me know.

Explanations on the other hand are the first step to preventing the harm from occurring in the future with this same person or anyone else.

LexieOnRale wrote:

There is no excuse for what they did. Illness, whatever. You don't push a toddler down the stairs, or threathen to run them down with your car and get to blame it on "not being well". There's being sick and being evil. And those 7 kids have got to live with the fall out for the rest of their lives.

See above regarding excuses.

What if being sick caused behaviours that you would describe as evil? Does illness cease once evilness can be attributed? Could committing acts of evil cure brain damage? Of course not so you have to deal with reality.

I dont think a person with a normally functioning brain would even consider doing those things to a child.

FortySeven

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Is there a suggestion that this had been before the family courts and applications by the HSE refused?

I heard them saying it was old school thinking that the mother couldn't possibly do wrong and that it had been missed for 5 years but I was busy at the time so didn't hear the rest. They were doing the newspaper front pages.

FortySeven

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It takes mental illness, personality disorder, trauma, brain damage or some other form of abnormality to do the things she did. Prison might not be in the best interest of the woman or the state (taxpayers).

I hope the children are well looked after and end up in loving homes.

Not true. Many abusers are perfectly normal functioning members of society. Plenty of people with many of the issues you listed (myself included) manage just fine without inflicting this kind of barbarity on our offspring.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

If someone tries to excuse anything she did, then you let me know.

Explanations on the other hand are the first step to preventing the harm from occurring in the future with this same person or anyone else.



See above regarding excuses.

What if being sick caused behaviours that you would describe as evil? Does illness cease once evilness can be attributed? Could committing acts of evil cure brain damage? Of course not so you have to deal with reality.

I dont think a person with a normally functioning brain would even consider doing those things to a child.

Funny how she was well enough to know not to do it to people who could defend themselves. She was well enough to try cover it up.

Pique

LexieOnRale wrote: »

She was well enough to try cover it up.

And tried to blame her daughter to get herself out of trouble! How low can you get?

LexieOnRale

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Funny how she was well enough to know not to do it to people who could defend themselves. She was well enough to try cover it up.

That is a very important point if the parent has the insight to hid what they are doing then at some level they know if they are caught there will be consonances. They may not feel any remorse or feel it is wrong but they know to hide the behaviour.

The fact that they hid the behaviour and did not seek help should be a factor in deciding the sentencing.

The fact that the parent had a poor upbringing and had mental health issues and addictions is a factor but it is only one factor.

steddyeddy

I think it's about power tbh. Both parties should be in jail. I hope the kids get a decent start in life now that these pair are gone.

El_Duderino 09

FortySeven wrote:

Not true. Many abusers are perfectly normal functioning members of society. Plenty of people with many of the issues you listed (myself included) manage just fine without inflicting this kind of barbarity on our offspring.

Not all people with mental illness will do something like this. Anyone who does something like this, almost certainly has one of the conditions mentioned.

Of course most people with mental illness get along just fine in normal society.

It's normal to be overcome by chemicals which cause a bond of love with your own children. Inflicting this kind of prolonged torture on children is only likely to happen in the absence of that normal process. Ergo not normal brain functioning. Her behaviours are still repulsive.

Call it evil if you like but it's a very simplistic way to view it and offers no way to understand the behaviour and prevent it happening in future.

Pitchforks and torches is probably more satisfying than trying to understand and prevent it in future. Depends on your priorities I suppose