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Mother jailed for neglect and assault on her children

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    #62
    etoughguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 344 ✭✭etoughguy


    Its a sad and pathetic state of affairs when I am not in the slightest bit shocked at the leniency shown to these two animals. I am long past the point of expecting the judicial system to protect people in this country, in fact I am numb over the whole thing. That judge should bow his head in shame


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    #63
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Not all people with mental illness will do something like this. Anyone who does something like this, almost certainly has one of the conditions mentioned.

    Of course most people with mental illness get along just fine in normal society.

    It's normal to be overcome by chemicals which cause a bond of love with your own children. Inflicting this kind of prolonged torture on children is only likely to happen in the absence of that normal process. Ergo not normal brain functioning. Her behaviours are still repulsive.

    Call it evil if you like but it's a very simplistic way to view it and offers no way to understand the behaviour and prevent it happening in future.

    Pitchforks and torches is probably more satisfying than trying to understand and prevent it in future. Depends on your priorities I suppose

    I was abused worse than those kids and taken from my family.
    I am bipolar and have a borderline personality disorder.
    I have been a drug addict.
    I have been an alcoholic.
    Been homeless on the streets.
    Been in jail.

    No excuses. I've managed to be a loving, caring father to my children.

    This woman was just selfish. It is a common trait in addicts and she has let it go to her head. You can't make excuses for some people. I've been in prison for a few years, it is full of people who are just bad. Nothing more complicated. People who will bully and beat another man for no reason other than enjoyment.

    When you've seen life at the bottom it is easier to get the pitchforks sharpened. There are a lot of folks around that wouldn't be missed.


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    #64
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,099 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    FortySeven wrote:
    I was abused worse than those kids and taken from my family. I am bipolar and have a borderline personality disorder. I have been a drug addict. I have been an alcoholic. Been homeless on the streets. Been in jail.

    No excuses. I've managed to be a loving, caring father to my children.

    Sounds really tough. I'm delighted gat you came out the right side of that set of experience.

    I was sure this poster would empathise with someone who also has mental illness but didn't come out he right side. Alas no.
    FortySeven wrote:
    This woman was just selfish. It is a common trait in addicts and she has let it go to her head. You can't make excuses for some people. I've been in prison for a few years, it is full of people who are just bad. Nothing more complicated. People who will bully and beat another man for no reason other than enjoyment.

    'Badness' and 'evil' are a cop out for society to understand those illnesses. Not so long ago, bipolar and borderline personality disorders were lumped in with 'bad'. I bet you're glad that people went to the trouble of parsing out the myriad of disorders and developing care pathways for ge ones you have. You have mental illness but other people are just bad?
    FortySeven wrote:
    When you've seen life at the bottom it is easier to get the pitchforks sharpened. There are a lot of folks around that wouldn't be missed.
    I can't argue against your experience. I'm just glad that the mob who diagnosed your illness, sharpened their pencils rather than their pitchforks.


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    #65
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    FortySeven wrote: »
    I was abused worse than those kids and taken from my family.
    I am bipolar and have a borderline personality disorder.
    I have been a drug addict.
    I have been an alcoholic.
    Been homeless on the streets.
    Been in jail.

    No excuses. I've managed to be a loving, caring father to my children.

    This woman was just selfish. It is a common trait in addicts and she has let it go to her head. You can't make excuses for some people. I've been in prison for a few years, it is full of people who are just bad. Nothing more complicated. People who will bully and beat another man for no reason other than enjoyment.

    When you've seen life at the bottom it is easier to get the pitchforks sharpened. There are a lot of folks around that wouldn't be missed.

    Fair play to you for getting over all that and making a good life for you & your kids.
    BUT.....
    Just because you did it, doesn't necessarily mean it's as easy for other people. Maybe they are not as strong as you? I think having been where you were, you would have some little understanding for others. I don't think this woman was just an addict. I believe there were mental health issues also?

    I'm not trying to make excuses for this woman, in any way, I'm just trying to understand how something like this can happen.
    Very few people are just ' bad' or ' evil' IMO.


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    #66
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    Personally I don't care what illness or what hard life someone has, once they lay one scummy hand on a defenceless child, there's absolutely no excusing that. They're just a bully plain and simple. They will prey and bully kids because really they're cowards who'd never do it to someone who could hit them back.

    That's actually quite insulting to people suffering from mental illness, I'm sure most mentally ill people don't push their kids down the stairs or beat them, or try run them down with their car.


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    #67
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,412 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    There has to be both a sanction and help, its an important signal from society that their will be sanctions.


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    #68
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    Very few people are bad or evil. This is true and it is why we don't hear of things like this too often. There are bad or evil people though.

    I am very open to treatment or support and intervention in people with problems lives and I think there is a lot more we can do as a society to aid people in need but the fact remains that there are people who can pass any assessment for medical, mental, addiction or physical issues and go on to be the nastiest piece of work you ever met. Angus breivik is a good example of bad or evil. No rhyme nor reason for his brutal actions.

    It may well be that there is a treatable condition that we are unaware of but there are greater minds than mine working in this field constantly and they have not managed to explain it yet. Until they do then we have to treat these people as we do now. With punishment and isolation. There is no other way. Yet.


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    #69
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Fair play to you for getting over all that and making a good life for you & your kids.
    BUT.....
    Just because you did it, doesn't necessarily mean it's as easy for other people. Maybe they are not as strong as you? I think having been where you were, you would have some little understanding for others. I don't think this woman was just an addict. I believe there were mental health issues also?

    I'm not trying to make excuses for this woman, in any way, I'm just trying to understand how something like this can happen.
    Very few people are just ' bad' or ' evil' IMO.

    It sounds like an excuse though. I mean, I fully sympathise with anyone who grows up in an abusive home and who hasn't learned how to parent but we are all responsible for our own actions. This woman has ruined these kids childhood. They will never get that back. Her sentence is an absolute joke.


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    #70
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,099 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    eviltwin wrote:
    It sounds like an excuse though. I mean, I fully sympathise with anyone who grows up in an abusive home and who hasn't learned how to parent but we are all responsible for our own actions. This woman has ruined these kids childhood. They will never get that back. Her sentence is an absolute joke.

    Nobody is saying she isn't guilty. Nobody has said she shouldn't be dealt with. Nobody has suggested she should be put back in charge if her children.

    Who has tried to excuse her and in what way?


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    #71
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    "Oh she's not well, prison isn't going to help her, she needs help".
    She needs the electric chair.


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    #72
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,099 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    LexieOnRale wrote:
    "Oh she's not well, prison isn't going to help her, she needs help". She needs the electric chair.

    Oh here. I thought we were having a discussion.


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    #73
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    "Oh she's not well, prison isn't going to help her, she needs help".
    She needs the electric chair.

    I fundamentally disagree. I'm all for capital punishment, but for murder.

    As for child neglect, abuse, even assault, I don't think the Judge was too far off the mark. I suspect the numbers convicted in this country are few, the numbers imprisoned even fewer. I'm not even sure the concept of neglect existed until the Children Act 15 years ago. Afaik the maximum is 7 years but doubt anyone has ever got next or near that, and presume it would be argued that that is reserved for instances of death by neglect.

    On the assault matters, as frightening as it may seem, unless the children presented with evidence of serious harm (which you may not get, even after incidents as horrific as driving a car at them or holding a head under water), the max for assault causing harm is 5 years.


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    #74
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    She's destroyed those kids life. They have NOBODY to love them. No matter what awful things that might happen a child as they grow up, they at least can take comfort that they're going to be safe at home. When I was being bullied in primary school my dad would read me a story and give me a cuddle before bed and I had that comfort when I was sad and scared.

    It disgusts me to think of 7 little kids absolutely traumatised and frightened in their own home with strange drunks walking in and out like it was some sort of half way house, with nobody to give them a hug and a kiss and make them feel loved and like none of what was happening was their fault.

    How are they ever going to be okay after that? She's ruined their lives. There is no coming back from that.


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    #75
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    There is coming back. Don't write these kids off
    . They will need help and support but
    Many people have come back from, and I hate to compare pain but worse. Human beings are very resilient and I believe inclined to live good lives. I hope they get the support they need.


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    #76
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    Worse than what? Your mother trying to run you over in her car? Being seperated from your siblings? Imagine that .. At least when they lived together they could look after each other and know each other was ok, now they don't know if each other are okay. They are missing out on unconditional love. That cannot be replaced.

    They might grow up to be kind, normal functioning adults but they'll never have had a childhood. They haven't grown up feeling safe and I can't imagine they can trust many people, if you couldn't even trust your own mother how would you?
    They might grow up to be very troubled adults, who knows?

    I hope they grow up and be okay, and have a wonderful life full of happy and positive things -- but their bitch mother deserves nothing but to rot in prison for the rest of her life to mull over what an awful disgusting abomination of a human being she really is. Wild animals would have more compassion.


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    #77
    Cathy.C
    Closed Accounts Posts: 637 ✭✭✭Cathy.C


    Sentence seems a little lenient to me I suppose but then again I think that might be because my head is still trying to deal with two other stories which I read today and yesterday (1, 2) which, in comparison at least, make this woman's crimes seem not so bad. Hard to believe some of things which befall children in the care of the very people who are supposed to be protecting them.


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    #78
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,099 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    LexieOnRale wrote:
    I hope they grow up and be okay, and have a wonderful life full of happy and positive things -- but their bitch mother deserves nothing but to rot in prison for the rest of her life to mull over what an awful disgusting abomination of a human being she really is. Wild animals would have more compassion.

    I think I got this thread all wrong. I'll try it again.

    Rabble rabble... Saddle up fellers, let's get'em.
    Rabble rabble.... We'll smok'em out, then try 'em an hang 'em. Heee-haaa!

    Or does your possy prefer the electric chair? Try 'em an fry 'em.

    Better?

    Lucky for all of us, there are clever, empathetic and creative people working on the psychological side of things. No need for everyone to be clever, empathetic or creative.


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    #79
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    Alright, beat all the kids you want. Hit them with cars, hold their head under water. As long as you don't kill them, what harm? Everything else can be fixed.


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    #80
    captbarnacles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,972 ✭✭✭captbarnacles


    Sickeningly there's a story on the Indo today which involves worse parents although when you get to that level there isn't much subdivision.
    Hard to categorise them as anything apart from evil. If they are convicted I would have no problem with the father being sentenced to death.


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    #81
    KERSPLAT!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    Alright, beat all the kids you want. Hit them with cars, hold their head under water. As long as you don't kill them, what harm? Everything else can be fixed.

    Quote the post that says that so we can all have a look


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    #82
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,099 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    LexieOnRale wrote:
    Alright, beat all the kids you want. Hit them with cars, hold their head under water. As long as you don't kill them, what harm? Everything else can be fixed.

    Well that's a ridiculous thing to say.


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    #83
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    Cathy.C wrote: »
    Sentence seems a little lenient to me I suppose but then again I think that might be because my head is still trying to deal with two other stories which I read today and yesterday (1, 2) which, in comparison at least, make this woman's crimes seem not so bad. Hard to believe some of things which befall children in the care of the very people who are supposed to be protecting them.

    I wish I hadn't read that first one. That poor child.


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    #84
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    No more ridiculous than someone saying a clever and empathic psychologist can erase whatever those kids have gone through.


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    #85
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,679 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    melissak wrote: »
    There is coming back. Don't write these kids off
    . They will need help and support but
    Many people have come back from, and I hate to compare pain but worse. Human beings are very resilient and I believe inclined to live good lives. I hope they get the support they need.

    Yes human beings can be resilient. It's a resilience which comes from knowing that we have a safe place in the world from the moment we are born. This safe place is created by our parents. Can you imagine the fear and insecurity in a child who's family don't provide then with that?

    I've seen the devastation that child abuse instils in many adults. The huge struggles that a lot of them have to contend with are heartbreaking. The so called "parents" that take away their children's happiness and chance of a decent future need more than two years in prison.


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    #86
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,099 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    LexieOnRale wrote:
    No more ridiculous than someone saying a clever and empathic psychologist can erase whatever those kids have gone through.

    Are you having another conversation that we can't see? Could you show us that post?


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    #87
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    Alright, beat all the kids you want. Hit them with cars, hold their head under water. As long as you don't kill them, what harm? Everything else can be fixed.

    Lexie I come from an abusive home, not in this level but still abusive enough. I was sexually and physically abused and it destroyed my childhood and adolescence. I got help in my twenties and I'm in my thirties now and living a happy, normal life. No one who meets me would ever think I'm anything other than a person who had a normal upbringing. Abuse is traumatic and it leaves an mark on a person forever but it doesn't have to ruin your life and survivors need to know that.


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    #88
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    I think I got this thread all wrong. I'll try it again.

    Lucky for all of us, there are clever, empathetic and creative people working on the psychological side of things. No need for everyone to be clever, empathetic or creative.

    So what are you saying?


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    #89
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Lexie I come from an abusive home, not in this level but still abusive enough. I was sexually and physically abused and it destroyed my childhood and adolescence. I got help in my twenties and I'm in my thirties now and living a happy, normal life. No one who meets me would ever think I'm anything other than a person who had a normal upbringing. Abuse is traumatic and it leaves an mark on a person forever but it doesn't have to ruin your life and survivors need to know that.

    And I'm really happy to hear that your childhood doesn't affect you from having a good adult life. There's also a poster on this thread who posted how they ended up homeless, on drugs, put in jail with some mental health issues as a result of their abusive childhood.

    I'd like to think your story and happy ending would be the norm for all survivors of abuse, but something tells me it's not how it is for the vast majority of people who were abused as kids


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    #90
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,679 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Lexie I come from an abusive home, not in this level but still abusive enough. I was sexually and physically abused and it destroyed my childhood and adolescence. I got help in my twenties and I'm in my thirties now and living a happy, normal life. No one who meets me would ever think I'm anything other than a person who had a normal upbringing. Abuse is traumatic and it leaves an mark on a person forever but it doesn't have to ruin your life and survivors need to know that.

    I'm glad you are living a happy life now eviltwin.
    You're right. Abuse doesn't have to ruin your life. I've also seen people who have made huge strides to overcome their past. However sometimes this isn't always the case. Because of this I feel strongly regarding heavy sentencing for the perpetrators.


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    #91
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    And I'm really happy to hear that your childhood doesn't affect you from having a good adult life. There's also a poster on this thread who posted how they ended up homeless, on drugs, put in jail with some mental health issues as a result of their abusive childhood.

    I'd like to think your story and happy ending would be the norm for all survivors of abuse, but something tells me it's not how it is for the vast majority of people who were abused as kids

    It doesn't have to be like that. We need to give people hope that they can come out the other side and be happy.


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