Eircode - its implemetation (merged)

plodder · 04-04-2016 12:34PM

Ok, say you reverse that split and say one third of applications are from unique addresses and two thirds from non unique (I don't have the figures here, but that is likely a conservative estimate). In that situation, around 33,000 applications don't benefit that much from having an eircode, but 66,000 do. So, in this situation 250,000 hours of saved work on average are being shared among 66,000 applications, which equates to three hours of work saved by having immediate access to a valid address and using an automated system to calculate distances. Is that really believable? As I said last week, the proof will be in actual moneys saved by SUSI. If they don't actually save millions in their expenditure, then it's not real.

I suggest people try it out for themselves. Go to maps.google.ie Type in the name of a 3rd level college. Then click "directions" and in the from field type in some unique address. Select the address and you will see the distance. For unique addresses that google knows about, you can do this literally in seconds.

ukoda · 04-04-2016 12:42PM

plodder wrote: »

Ok, say you reverse that split and say one third of applications are from unique addresses and two thirds from non unique (I don't have the figures here, but that is likely a conservative estimate). In that situation, around 33,000 applications don't benefit that much from having an eircode, but 66,000 do. So, in this situation 250,000 hours of saved work on average are being shared among 66,000 applications, which equates to three hours of work saved by having immediate access to a valid address and using an automated system to calculate distances. Is that really believable? As I said last week, the proof will be in actual moneys saved by SUSI. If they don't actually save millions in their expenditure, then it's not real.

No as pointed out to you above, every application saves because of this eircode implementation. Some save more than others. But they all save. So let it go. You are either now just trolling or if you genuinely can't see it, no amount of explaining it to you is going to work.

BoatMad · 04-04-2016 06:38PM

Plodder, whats the point of your discussion, even if SUSI is out even by a considerable margin , there still is a significant saving from using Eircode, or are you just trying to say SUSI is lying .

your argument is like stating that a 3/4 pint of beer is tasteless compared to a pint

TheChizler · 04-04-2016 10:46PM

Had a chat with the census enumerator today, I was the 4th person he'd come across who knew their Eircode. My brother had a similar story where he was the second. It'll take a while but with use we'll get there. I was glad it was on my form, the enumerator's handwritten address was totally illegible.

04-04-2016 10:55PM

The census enumerator was around on Sunday and used the eircode as a verification that she had the correct location, she had a map with the eircodes next to the dots.

plodder · 05-04-2016 07:25AM

BoatMad wrote: »

Plodder, whats the point of your discussion, even if SUSI is out even by a considerable margin , there still is a significant saving from using Eircode, or are you just trying to say SUSI is lying .

There's certainly some saving, but how much I don't know. We've a history in this country of over promising the benefits of projects like this and then wondering afterwards why they aren't delivering.

your argument is like stating that a 3/4 pint of beer is tasteless compared to a pint

No, it's more like saying just because we spent 38 million on the brewery doesn't mean we get to drink free beer.

BoatMad · 05-04-2016 02:01PM

There's certainly some saving, but how much I don't know. We've a history in this country of over promising the benefits of projects like this and then wondering afterwards why they aren't delivering.

many projects in this country " deliver" but for political reasons there are always those that make capital out of failures even small ones. We do a lot of things right in this state , but all we ever moan about are the small percentage of wrongs

Sam Russell · 05-04-2016 10:03PM

BoatMad wrote: »

many projects in this country " deliver" but for political reasons there are always those that make capital out of failures even small ones. We do a lot of things right in this state , but all we ever moan about are the small percentage of wrongs

I can think of few projects that fall into the 'success' camp but many that fall into the 'failure' camp.

HSE, Irish Water, Planning system, Local Government would be failures - the list would go on.

Successes - RTE, The Museums, The Arts, The Defence Forces, GAA, The IDA (and FDI policy) are exceptions, and I cannot think of any others but I am sure there are some. There must be some - surely.

Sorry for going off topic.

05-04-2016 10:15PM

Eircodes should eventually be added to the success list, one of its first major tests will be the current census.
Once all government agencies use it as part of the official address of citizens and actually use the eircode for verification purposes as originally intended, then it can be called a success.

Sam Russell · 05-04-2016 10:34PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Eircodes should eventually be added to the success list, one of its first major tests will be the current census.
Once all government agencies use it as part of the official address of citizens and actually use the eircode for verification purposes as originally intended, then it can be called a success.

As the Chinese leader (I think it was Zhou Enlai Premier from 1949 - 1976) said when asked if he thought the French Revolution was a success, said 'I think it is too early to say'.

Eircode may be a success, but not just yet. If Google and Garmin implement it soon, then maybe.

ukoda · 05-04-2016 10:40PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

As the Chinese leader (I think it was Zhou Enlai Premier from 1949 - 1976) said when asked if he thought the French Revolution was a success, said 'I think it is too early to say'.

Eircode may be a success, but not just yet. If Google and Garmin implement it soon, then maybe.

There are degrees of success.

From a consumer point of view, if it's not on google maps and they don't see it everywhere then it's a failure.

From a business point of view, if it turns a profit and can lay claim to millions in efficiency savings, then it's a success.

I think for it to be truly successful it needs to do both. It needs to be part of every day life while generating the efficiencies. I believe it can do this

RainyDay · 06-04-2016 01:35PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

I can think of few projects that fall into the 'success' camp but many that fall into the 'failure' camp.

HSE, Irish Water, Planning system, Local Government would be failures - the list would go on.

Successes - RTE, The Museums, The Arts, The Defence Forces, GAA, The IDA (and FDI policy) are exceptions, and I cannot think of any others but I am sure there are some. There must be some - surely.

Sorry for going off topic.

Would it surprise you to know that the successful organisations and projects don't get much press coverage?

Sam Russell · 06-04-2016 01:48PM

RainyDay wrote: »

Would it surprise you to know that the successful organisations and projects don't get much press coverage?

That may be the squeaky wheel getting the oil. You do not make a fuss about the lack of traffic, but you do if there is gridlock.

marmurr1916 · 06-04-2016 03:50PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

I can think of few projects that fall into the 'success' camp but many that fall into the 'failure' camp.

HSE, Irish Water, Planning system, Local Government would be failures - the list would go on.

Successes - RTE, The Museums, The Arts, The Defence Forces, GAA, The IDA (and FDI policy) are exceptions, and I cannot think of any others but I am sure there are some. There must be some - surely.

Sorry for going off topic.

The changeover to the euro went very smoothly as did the changeover to metric speed limits.

The general day-to-day running of the state is actually among the most efficient in the world, despite the constant whining from many people that it's not perfect.

Here's a heads-up to those people (especially the 'only in Ireland' brigade) - nowhere in the world is perfect. Of the couple of hundred independent states (de jure and de facto) in the world, Ireland is easily among the 20 or so most well governed, putting it into the top 10%. And that's in terms of numbers of states.

Taking into account population, about 95% of the world's population live in states or territories that are run less efficiently than Ireland. I am heartily fecking sick to death of the amount of whinging that so many Irish people engage in.

Travel the world, live in a few other countries, and you'll soon realise that Ireland, compared to around 90% of countries, is actually a very pleasant and smoothly efficient place in which to live.

Could it be better? Of course it could, but I get so bloody fed up with whinging moaners who only concentrate on the (on a global scale) relatively minor inefficiencies and have absolutely no clue how lucky they are to live in such a peaceful, prosperous, well-run, fair country that counts among the best countries in the world in which to live.

Sam Russell · 06-04-2016 04:04PM

Mod: we are going off topic but if wanted I will spin it off to a new thread.

Otherwise, back to Eircode.

byrnefm · 07-04-2016 07:45AM

My Census form arrived on Monday. No Eircode. I live in a town, though so maybe not necessary. My parents live in the countryside and I asked about their form. There was a code on theirs but they didn't recognise it. I looked it up.. the Eircode on their form was for an unoccupied neighbour's house!

TheChizler · 07-04-2016 02:28PM

byrnefm wrote: »

My Census form arrived on Monday. No Eircode. I live in a town, though so maybe not necessary. My parents live in the countryside and I asked about their form. There was a code on theirs but they didn't recognise it. I looked it up.. the Eircode on their form was for an unoccupied neighbour's house!

Preprinted or written by the enumerator? Ours was handwritten based on a map with tiny arrows that easily could look like they're pointing at the wrong house.

RainyDay · 07-04-2016 02:50PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

That may be the squeaky wheel getting the oil. You do not make a fuss about the lack of traffic, but you do if there is gridlock.

That's exactly it. The HSE don't issue press releases about the hundreds of babies born every day. Revenue don't issue press releases about the millions of tax collected every day. EPA don't issue press releases for every air and water test completed.

Private sector screw-ups are generally kept private, unlike those in public sector.

Sam Russell · 07-04-2016 05:41PM

RainyDay wrote: »

Private sector screw-ups are generally kept private, unlike those in public sector.

I think the public sector like to keep their screw-ups private as well, and they are particularly good at it.

byrnefm · 07-04-2016 07:17PM

TheChizler wrote: »

Preprinted or written by the enumerator? Ours was handwritten based on a map with tiny arrows that easily could look like they're pointing at the wrong house.

Theirs was hand-written on the census form. My dad thought it was a different type of code as it didn't match their Eircode!

BoatMad · 07-04-2016 07:35PM

byrnefm wrote: »

My Census form arrived on Monday. No Eircode. I live in a town, though so maybe not necessary. My parents live in the countryside and I asked about their form. There was a code on theirs but they didn't recognise it. I looked it up.. the Eircode on their form was for an unoccupied neighbour's house!

I talked to the enumerator

they have a book of addresses, of the area, I suspect its derived from GeoDirectories , and most of those entries contain an Eircode

However Geodirectories doesn't tell him if anyone lives there or not , and he or she then is supposed to ascertain , how many are normally in the dwelling and when he does that , he writes in the address and eircode copied by the book of Geodirectories . That can lead to transcription errors of course

RainyDay · 07-04-2016 07:39PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think the public sector like to keep their screw-ups private as well, and they are particularly good at it.

Kinda difficult, given the published accounts, annual reports, parliamentary questions and FOI legislation - along with nosey journalists, C&AG, opposition TDs, public accounts committee etc etc.

Sam Russell · 07-04-2016 11:48PM

RainyDay wrote: »

Kinda difficult, given the published accounts, annual reports, parliamentary questions and FOI legislation - along with nosey journalists, C&AG, opposition TDs, public accounts committee etc etc.

They certainly try anyway. Ministers have been known to be economical with the truth, and evasive with answers.

RainyDay · 08-04-2016 12:01PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

They certainly try anyway. Ministers have been known to be economical with the truth, and evasive with answers.

Yes, they have been - just like many people in many walks of life have been economical with the truth and evasive with answers.

The difference in the public sector is the many existing, effective mechanisms to ensure that information can be put into the public domain. There are no such mechanisms in the private sector.

byrnefm · 08-04-2016 09:56PM

oscarBravo wrote: »

OK, seems it was done by email. He sent them his GPS location and a set of directions to his house (I think through the contact form on the website) and they sent him back the Eircode.

I emailed Eircode via their 'Contact Us' form this afternoon, giving the coordinates from Google Maps. I'll let you know if I get a reply.

Interestingly, I asked my colleague today if the Census Enumerator arrived. He said yes - the enumerator told him that his house was not on their map but that the person noticed his house along the way! It was lucky he got the form at all. And yet his house is on Google Street view .. from 2011.

ukoda · 09-04-2016 11:40AM

https://www.dominos.ie

Dominos now using eircode, the address box has "enter eircode or address"
They also have a link to the eircode Finder if you want to look up your eircode

Alan_P · 10-04-2016 10:35AM

ukoda wrote: »

https://www.dominos.ie

Dominos now using eircode, the address box has "enter eircode or address"
They also have a link to the eircode Finder if you want to look up your eircode

I note that if we didn't have the 21st century postal code that we do have, they couldn't just simply say "Enter your Eircode". It would have to be qualified later.

10-04-2016 11:39AM

Alan_P wrote: »

I note that if we didn't have the 21st century postal code that we do have, they couldn't just simply say "Enter your Eircode". It would have to be qualified later.

They probably don't want to "scare" customers who are not OK with using the eircodes yet. Just having a "Enter your Eircode" box will eventually be the "new normal" but that's some way off into the future.

plodder · 10-04-2016 11:40AM

Still haven't got my census form. That's not eircode's fault clearly, but I did get a visit from an enumerator yesterday who wasn't sure whether my place was in his area or not. After some confusion with the map, he asked for my Eircode and checked a list then to see whether my code was on it. I was thinking that could be time consuming because, being random, the codes don't give you this information from their structure, but he was able to tell quite quickly. So, I guess the lists are sorted alphabetically and it's not too hard to find codes then. Though... if the small area was built in to the code directly then the enumerators wouldn't need to look up a list at all, to know whether a property is in their area or not. They would just learn off the ten or so prefixes that they are dealing with and would recognise one of their 'own' codes immediately. Minor point obviously, but anyway let the slating begin.. 'whinging moaner' etc.

ukoda · 10-04-2016 11:59AM

plodder wrote: »

Still haven't got my census form. That's not eircode's fault clearly, but I did get a visit from an enumerator yesterday who wasn't sure whether my place was in his area or not. After some confusion with the map, he asked for my Eircode and checked a list then to see whether my code was on it. I was thinking that could be time consuming because, being random, the codes don't give you this information from their structure, but he was able to tell quite quickly. So, I guess the lists are sorted alphabetically and it's not too hard to find codes then. Though... if the small area was built in to the code directly then the enumerators wouldn't need to look up a list at all, to know whether a property is in their area or not. They would just learn off the ten or so prefixes that they are dealing with and would recognise one of their 'own' codes immediately. Minor point obviously, but anyway let the slating begin.. 'whinging moaner' etc.

Why would we slate you? You've basically said the enumerator was able to use eircode quickly to identify if you were "his" house or not

Eircode - its implemetation (merged)

Comments