Too hipster for school

Witchie · 07-04-2016 12:07PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I'm still waiting for someone to broach him being told a good few times to shave, His beard did not grow in a day.

As this happened on Tuesday and they only returned to school on Monday after a 2 week Easter holiday, he may have been growing it over the holidays. In my experience of dealing with the school I would bet that he went to school on Monday and was told the beard was unacceptable and to be shaved for the next day.

As have said before also this school have high standards but will turn a blind eye to a bit of fluff or stubble for a few days before enforcement of rules. The class tutor might say to a lad that they would need to shave and leave it at that.

There are 3 other schools in the town that he could go to but as far as I know at least 1 other would be as strict. He probably would be better in the state school though as they are less strict and might be a better fit in other ways.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 07-04-2016 12:20PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

How would you imagine he will be paying for that then ? Considering his parents put him in this one and are the guardians that signed him up to the rules ?

Pount was made about 'life' and having to obey rules in life. I was just continuing with the scenario.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 07-04-2016 12:23PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Why is it you think a person can't be bright just because they have to learn that they are bound by certain rules, whether it be rules set out by the law or by your first work contract. Schools play a much larger role in kids education than simply the academic portion.

You ask why can't students be stimulated? Was this kid not stimulated by his run in with the rules? He tried to start a bit of a campaign. Unfortunately he obviously isn't the brightest and his reasoning was pretty poor but he was still motivated by his conflict. I wonder what kind of students schools would produce if they were solely academic and afforded
them all the freedoms they wish. I'd imagine they'd be the kind of kids you see these days in college demanding safe spaces from opposing opinions or impolite people.

I never said that. Maybe he csn msybe he cant. How he performs at school appears to be of no importance, strangely.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 07-04-2016 12:25PM

VinLieger wrote: »

Why are his parents not allowed agree to him obeying the rules?

They are - my pount is that if they did, then he didnt agree to anything. Unless he agreed with them and then reneged, in which case yes: id agree he's in the wrong.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 07-04-2016 12:42PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Education is not about teaching someone to obey rules for the sake of it.

No it isn't.

You have to follow cartain rules in life whether you like it or not.

Part of your developement in life is accepting there are certain boundaries on whta you can and cannot do.

pickarooney · 07-04-2016 01:00PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Harsh. Some of the most serious people on the world, and within our culture, have facial hair. Including senior government ministers snd business leaders. It's a very mixed message to tell children 'don't focus on outward beauty but shave off that ugly ginger beard, it's making me sick just looking at you'.

It's clearly fostering the idea that beard = undesirable, which is at the very least a strange attitude to a fairly random feature. At worst, well... you don't have to reach too far to see that denigrating the Amish isn't the extent of such a prejudice.

Of course this assumes the teachers aren't allowed beards and the school boards aren't monstrous hypocrites.

Irish people seems to have a major cognitive dissonance about what's instilled in their children. They'll clap themselves on the back for allowing same sex marriages but see no issue in the preponderance of same sex schools, and meekly go on letting disgraced religious organisations have almost total control of the schools, as long as the students get high points in the leaving cert, as though this was the ultimate achievement.

Little CuChulainn · 07-04-2016 01:01PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I never said that. Maybe he csn msybe he cant. How he performs at school appears to be of no importance, strangely.

No importance to what? Whether he can wear a beard?

rsh118 · 07-04-2016 01:50PM

Sorry guys, the only acceptable excuse for denying access to education is if a pupil is dangerous to themselves and others in a way which the school is unable to cater for.

The school here need to accept that there are some grey areas to this and just suck it up and let him get on with his learning.

His video rant is neither here nor there. He hasn't broken any laws, and you would likely find that were a case like this to go to court, the court would find in favour of not excluding the young man.

07-04-2016 01:59PM

rsh118 wrote: »

His video rant is neither here nor there. He hasn't broken any laws, and you would likely find that were a case like this to go to court, the court would find in favour of not excluding the young man.

As long as fair procedures are observed, the Courts may very well decide not interfere with school rules. I can't remember any cases brought against schools except where the claim was that the rule was discriminatory, and that would be on the usual grounds of race, religion etc. A uniform appearance, dress code, hair rule etc...don't see the Courts striking down those type of rules too easily.

Mesrine65 · 07-04-2016 02:03PM

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dunnes-worker-wins-appeal-against-beard-dismissal-26019952.html

rsh118 · 07-04-2016 02:05PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As long as fair procedures are observed, the Courts may very well decide not interfere with school rules. I can't remember any cases brought against schools except where the claim was that the rule was discriminatory, and that would be on the usual grounds of race, religion etc. A uniform appearance, dress code, hair rule etc...don't see the Courts striking down those type of rules too easily.

There'd be a lot of cases abroad, but only that Dunnes worker I can think of here.

Courts tend to take a very dim view to children being denied education.

07-04-2016 02:18PM

rsh118 wrote: »

There'd be a lot of cases abroad, but only that Dunnes worker I can think of here.

You'll have to link it.

rsh118 wrote: »

Courts tend to take a very dim view to children being denied education.

He is not being denied education, no more than the next expelled or suspended child is being denied education.

Courts tend to take a very dim view of people accepting rules and regulations...and then breaching them. Once due process is observed, a case may be extremely difficult.

lawred2 · 07-04-2016 02:19PM

The Moldy Gowl wrote: »

Goodluck to him when he hits the job market and will have to shave it off anyway.
Its a 'beard' of a 17 year old.

?

I think you maybe need to come out of the 50s

Muahahaha · 07-04-2016 03:07PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

That would be intetesring, becsuse Sikhs arent traditionally allowed to shave.

Not only that, traditionally Sikhs should carry a knife with them at all times !

The kirpan (/kɪərˈpɑːn/; Punjabi: ਕਿਰਪਾਨ kirpān) is a sword or knife carried by Sikhs. It is a religious commandment given by Guru Gobind Singh in 1699 that Sikhs must wear five articles of faith at all times, the kirpan being one of five articles.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Harsh. Some of the most serious people on the world, and within our culture, have facial hair. Including senior government ministers snd business leaders. It's a very mixed message to tell children 'don't focus on outward beauty but shave off that ugly ginger beard, it's making me sick just looking at you'.

Back in my days in the Christian Brothers the bone of contention was lads with long hair. Heavy metal hair was all the rage and the school found it hard to stop lads growing their hair long. The school came to a compromise where those with long hair could have it long so long as it was tied up in a pony tail. It worked for both sides and avoided an awful lot of agro.

Incidentally I wonder has the school also banned beards for its male teachers? What would be their stance there?

I think what we're seeing here is cultural to many Catholic schools. It stems from the old Catholic days of keeping up appearances and not stepping outside of societal norms (norms that the Church had a huge influence on).

The kid is probably going to have to suck it up because this school sounds like it has a strict ethos on these things. If he gets to university the culture he faces will be completely different and he'll be surrounded by lecturers with beards

El_Duderino 09 · 07-04-2016 03:27PM

pickarooney wrote:

It's clearly fostering the idea that beard = undesirable, which is at the very least a strange attitude to a fairly random feature. At worst, well... you don't have to reach too far to see that denigrating the Amish isn't the extent of such a prejudice.

I agree. It's one thing to hold that type of prejudice, but r
Practicing it as policy or reinforcing it as policy is completely wrong.

Mandating neatness is fine. Banning all beards is totally wrong.

darkpagandeath · 07-04-2016 03:36PM

Change beard to Mohawk.

Walter H Price · 07-04-2016 03:46PM

Would not even nearly have taken that from the school when i was his age. Uniform policy's are a joke to start with but the idea that some jumped up little Hittler teacher or principle would tell you how to have your hair or facial hair is a disgrace , i wouldn't put up with that at all.

Refuse to shave put it up to them , whats their job to "teach" you or manage your appearance. Definitely would have called him out on the Amish comment and if my kid came home and said a teacher or principle had made a joke about their appearance i'd be strait in their putting them back in their little box.

Guarantee the lads getting no hassle for their beards are trouble makers or Muslims , teacher would be afraid of their ****e to say anything to those lads , like all bully's they always pick on the good, quiet kids. Keep your beard if for no other reason then to annoy them more.

SEPT 23 1989 · 07-04-2016 03:55PM

I don't think we want our schools resembling homeless shelters or train yards now do we

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 07-04-2016 03:57PM

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

No it isn't.

You have to follow cartain rules in life whether you like it or not.

Part of your developement in life is accepting there are certain boundaries on whta you can and cannot do.

No we don't. Again - laws =/= rule. You can choose to obey rules and get a different job, you can;t chosoe to afford laws.

Laws are there for a reason - protention of society and order.
Rules are not.

And for the last time: there is now law saying a child or an adult may not grow a beard!

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

No importance to what? Whether he can wear a beard?

Of no importance to how the student performs in school. If you judge someone - or influence others to judge someone - by their appearance and not their character - you're just being shallow.

People here seem to think that it's more imporant for a student is that there appearance and adherance to the rules than to actually work hard and learn.

07-04-2016 03:58PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

I think what we're seeing here is cultural to many Catholic schools. It stems from the old Catholic days of keeping up appearances and not stepping outside of societal norms (norms that the Church had a huge influence on).

Bet I can find you stories of students getting into trouble for hairstyles in non Catholic schools outside Ireland.

Which would obviously put a bit of a dent in that theory that it's all about our issues with Catholicism.

rsh118 · 07-04-2016 03:59PM

Just had a coffee made by a particularly hirsute barista. It was superb. However I've asked his manager to sack him forthwith for not looking enough like Dennis O'Brien.

Walter H Price · 07-04-2016 04:00PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I don't think we want our schools resembling homeless shelters or train yards now do we

Not that it would but Y not ? what affect will having a beard , long , hair , no hair , pink , purple or blue hair have on a kids ability to learn ?

Maximus Alexander · 07-04-2016 04:02PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Change beard to Mohawk.

They're not logically equivalent though, as a Mohawk won't grow naturally on your head. You have to create it.

07-04-2016 04:06PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

No we don't. Again - laws =/= rule. You can choose to obey rules and get a different job, you can;t chosoe to afford laws.

Laws are there for a reason - protention of society and order.
Rules are not.

The laws v rules thing has no application.

Of course there are no laws, in the sense of statutes, about how people should dress in schools or work (indirectly, a very small number of jobs may be affected by health and safety legislation) or any place, heck I doubt even the requirement to wear a uniform in the army is set down in legislation.

No one has suggested he is breaking the law. He is breaking a rule. And breaking a rule can lead to serious sanction, in the above examples expulsion from school, dismissal from work, discharge from the army.

darkpagandeath · 07-04-2016 04:11PM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

They're not logically equivalent though, as a Mohawk won't grow naturally on your head. You have to create it.

Neither will a beard you have to trim it like hair. It is Equivalent. So unless the guy looks like he is out of ZZ top it's not natural. If the guy is the one in the picture he has a trimmed created style no moustache part. So exactly like a Mohawk.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 07-04-2016 04:25PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The laws v rules thing has no application.

Of course there are no laws, in the sense of statutes, about how people should dress in schools or work (indirectly, a very small number of jobs may be affected by health and safety legislation) or any place, heck I doubt even the requirement to wear a uniform in the army is set down in legislation.

No one has suggested he is breaking the law. He is breaking a rule. And breaking a rule can lead to serious sanction, in the above examples expulsion from school, dismissal from work, discharge from the army.

When the argument is "you have to obey in adult life" then yes it does. We don't have to obey rules - we can choose to opt out. We do have to obey laws.

You've mentioned churches and jobs before, and I answered it before: we are not legally bound to these communities and their rules.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

No one dictates to us. We can change job, leave churches, even move to different countries in real life if we don't like the rules of society. (And I'm not saying "laws" created by a government, which serve a completely different purpose to "rules" of society).

JupiterKid · 07-04-2016 04:31PM

I really don't see what the problem with tis young lad's beard is about. I wish at 16 that I could grow a beard like that.

When I was in school the strict rule was about long hair. A few lads had their hair in ponytails and little buns and it was tolerated for a while but they were eventually made to cut it short. A couple of these guys were model pupils so I think that the rule was stupid.

Mesrine65 · 07-04-2016 04:37PM

I got expelled from school at the age of 16 for having earrings, nose-rings, spiked dyed hair, bondage trousers, mohair jumper & brothel creepers :cool:

Good to see things have progressed in Ireland since 1981 :rolleyes:

Teyla Emmagan · 07-04-2016 04:37PM

5th year and he can't spell 'principal' despite it no doubt being written on the door he was looking at. Jesus.

I'm a big believer in uniforms. Learn to comply. Bring able to follow the rules, no matter how stupid, is a life skill. One of the many things we learn in school. You can sock it to the man when you get into college but in the meantime teachers have enough to be doing without dealing with your perceived human right to express yourself through facial hair.

rsh118 · 07-04-2016 04:38PM

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

5th year and he can't spell 'principal' despite it no doubt being written on the door he was looking at. Jesus.

I'm a big believer in uniforms. Learn to comply. Bring able to follow the rules, no matter how stupid, is a life skill. One of the many things we learn in school. You can sock it to the man when you get into college but in the meantime teachers have enough to be doing without dealing with your perceived human right to express yourself through facial hair.

Equally, being able to point out needless rules saves time, money and makes us all richer!

Too hipster for school

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