Too hipster for school

pickarooney

Health and ****ing Safety
The last resort of a moribund argument.

El_Duderino 09

pickarooney wrote:

Health and ****ing Safety The last resort of a moribund argument.

If they're worried about a teenage lad's beard, they don't want to know about their underpants!

darkpagandeath

pickarooney wrote: »

Health and ****ing Safety
The last resort of a moribund argument.

Where ?

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

If they're worried about a teenage lad's beard, they don't want to know about their underpants!

Not worried about the beard at all, More the complaints about a rule that was broken and was known about. Just like in a Job, We all have rules to follow. Seems very self entitled. Most people just got on with whatever nonsense rule they had in school. As it was good practice to be prepared for the workplace. Plenty of stupid rules I don't like in the workplace, But unfortunately you have to put up with them. And letting people away with stuff at an early age can lead to problems down the line for him.

Mesrine65

El_Duderino 09

darkpagandeath wrote:

Where ?

Here

Little CuChulainn wrote:

In any case, I already said the ban on facial hair is probably more to do with hygiene and health and safety and I find that perfectly reasonable.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

It effectively is the law for the school as it is one of there conditions so he does have to comply if he wants to attend the school.The school have their own requirements and he has to comply with them whether they are in the law off the land or not, if he doesn't want to comply with them he can go to another school.If he feels so strongly about it perhaps he should take the school to court.

Being dressed appropriately in work may not necessarily make you be more productive however it does reflect better on the company in the eyes of others and looks more professional and thus is a good rule to have in place.The same applies in this instance here where clearly the school have standards about the appearance of their students and want their students to look professional because it will reflect well on the school.

You seem to forget that people make judgement on others constantly based on their appearance and people would initially judge someone in a professional environment less favourably if they were poorly dressed the same applies in this situation where the school clearly wants to make a good impression for itself and project a professional image to the world.

The main problem is though that this guy went to a school knowing the rules and then decided he didn't like them so broke the rules, if you don't like the rules a school has then go to another school.

None of this challenves my point or ansers my question: you can have a beard and by well-groomed and hygenic, so are you endorsing rules for the sake of rules?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I'm guessing you would have no problem with the young fella wanting a Mohawk then either ? His beard is not a natural one, It is clearly styled and Cut. Just like a hair cut. Beards do not naturally grow without mustache parts and cheek hair.

Is the guy with the moehawk a.non-disruptive student who studies and gets good grades?

I never argued natural versus styled, so i think you're confusing me with someone else.

Mesrine65

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Beards do not naturally grow without mustache parts and cheek hair.

Tell that to Abraham Lincoln :P

http://images1.anandabazar.com/polopoly_fs/1.313204.1455874633!/image/image.jpg

Little CuChulainn

pickarooney wrote: »

Health and ****ing Safety
The last resort of a moribund argument.

Actually it wasn't a last resort. It was just my opinion on why the rule existed in the first place. But you feel free to pick out a few words from a post and present them in a way that makes you feel better about yourself.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

None of this challenves my point or ansers my question: you can have a beard and by well-groomed and hygenic, so are you endorsing rules for the sake of rules?

It's not solely for the sake of the rule it is to present a professional image.

Unless you are working with food or in a hospital/lab then a rule regarding dress code does not has any real impact however it projects a professional image and I suspect that is why schools and office have a dress code.It's a basic aspect of the working world and it makes sense.

This clip from Curb Your Enthusiasm explains it better than any words could.

Are you saying that dress codes should be banned full stop and you'd be happy with a funeral director turning up for work in a pair of tracksuit bottoms and a hoodie.I mean it doesn't stop him doing his job properly so why should it matter if he's well dressed or not. (of course everyone knows that of course it matters if you are well dressed).

Muahahaha

Has anyone actually thought what might happen if beards were allowed in schools? Would the entire education system collapse or something? Would the crime rates go up?

Its a daft rule whatever way you look at it. Beards don't matter to your education and they shouldn't be allowed get in the way of any kids education

darkpagandeath

Muahahaha wrote: »

Has anyone actually thought what might happen if beards were allowed in schools? Would the entire education system collapse or something? Would the crime rates go up?

Its a daft rule whatever way you look at it. Beards don't matter to your education and they shouldn't be allowed get in the way of any kids education

Mohawk don't either, Neither do dreadlocks or pink blue hair ? Neither do Mr tee earrings full face markup loads of things don't.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Muahahaha wrote: »

Has anyone actually thought what might happen if beards were allowed in schools? Would the entire education system collapse or something? Would the crime rates go up?

Its a daft rule whatever way you look at it. Beards don't matter to your education and they shouldn't be allowed get in the way of any kids education

But beards aren't getting in the way of his education.This students unwillingness to follow rules laid down by the school that he is attending and therefore chose to go along with their rules is what is stopping him getting an education.

darkpagandeath

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

But beards aren't getting in the way of his education.This students unwillingness to follow rules laid down by the school that he is attending and therefore chose to go along with their rules is what is stopping him getting an education.

Just like if he decided little break or lunch times did not suit himself.

Little CuChulainn

Muahahaha wrote: »

Has anyone actually thought what might happen if beards were allowed in schools? Would the entire education system collapse or something? Would the crime rates go up?

Its a daft rule whatever way you look at it. Beards don't matter to your education and they shouldn't be allowed get in the way of any kids education

The law on marijuana is daft. You could argue the same for the laws on prostitution, abortion and assisted suicide. But that won't help you if you are before a court for breaking them.

Irish Guitarist

The school needs to teach him some basic spelling and grammar as well as the meaning of racism.

I always wanted to be able to grow a beard. I don't mean I actually wanted a beard, I just would have liked the option of growing one. As it is I've always had patches on my face where hair just wouldn't grow and had to wait until I was almost 40 to be able to grow something resembling a beard. In some ways I'm jealous of these teenagers that can grow a full beard as soon as they hit puberty but on the other hand they're largely immature idiots that can barely spell or read. They often look like men but they think and act like children.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

It's not solely for the sake of the rule it is to present a professional image.

Unless you are working with food or in a hospital/lab then a rule regarding dress code does not has any real impact however it projects a professional image and I suspect that is why schools and office have a dress code.It's a basic aspect of the working world and it makes sense.

Which is absolute rubbish: your objections are not based on him looking unprofessional, they're based on him breaking the rules. You can have a beard and by well-presented.

Are you saying that dress codes should be banned full stop and you'd be happy with a funeral director turning up for work in a pair of tracksuit bottoms and a hoodie.I mean it doesn't stop him doing his job properly so why should it matter if he's well dressed or not. (of course everyone knows that of course it matters if you are well dressed).

Whenever anyone begins a sentence with "are you saying...." they absolutely, wihtout fail, go on to say something I not only am NOT saying.

Here's what I said previously on that issue.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

While I can see the argument in favour of a uniform, I've never had anyone successfully explain to me what a uniform achieves that a good sensible dress-code (no brands, football shirts, ripped or torn jeans/shirts) does.

So we return to the original point: you appear to be saying that there should be rules for the sake of having rules.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Which is absolute rubbish: your objections are not based on him looking unprofessional, they're based on him breaking the rules. You can have a beard and by well-presented.



Whenever anyone begins a sentence with "are you saying...." they absolutely, wihtout fail, go on to say something I not only am NOT saying.

Here's what I said previously on that issue.

I've already explained numerous times why school and other institutions feel having a particular dress code is important.His school have decided that the uniform and code regarding students appearance is what they want and he should accept that, they obviously feel it presents a good image for their school.They have obviously decided that it looks better than have a dress code incorporating day to day clothes and I'd agree with that as it would be too open to interpretation and being exploited by students.The uniform ensures that all students are well presented rather than leaving it open to interpretation.

You can have a beard and be well presented however his school believe that having beard is not what they want and have decided to not allow them.They are entitled to do so until a law prohibits them from having such rules.

This whole issue is very simple.

Students joins school
Therefore he accepts the rules and conditions associated with attending the school.
Student has now broken the conditions of being in the school
Therefore the student is in the wrong.

Simple as that.

pickarooney

Well this is certainly a pointless 'discussion'.

El_Duderino 09

darkpagandeath wrote:

Mohawk don't either, Neither do dreadlocks or pink blue hair ? Neither do Mr tee earrings full face markup loads of things don't.

To stick with your gold standard of what is appropriate in the work place, you can point to the most professional men in the world and find plenty of them who have beards. Scientists, government ministers, business leaders and prefessionals. Do you agree?

School doesn't need to lead a social charge for change but If school is supposed to reflect the working world, as you keep insisting, then why not allow beards?

freedominacup

rsh118 wrote: »

The problem with uniform is that parents like it, because it's Victorian, you know, back when everything was better for everyone.

There's scant evidence uniform improves outcomes in any way.

Don't tar us all with the same brush.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I've already explained numerous times why school and other institutions feel having a particular dress code is important.His school have decided that the uniform and code regarding students appearance is what they want and he should accept that, they obviously feel it presents a good image for their school.They have obviously decided that it looks better than have a dress code incorporating day to day clothes and I'd agree with that as it would be too open to interpretation and being exploited by students.The uniform ensures that all students are well presented rather than leaving it open to interpretation.

For the love of Christ, I am NOT artguing that students should be allowed to show up in whatever condition they want!! Why do you keep operating on that premise??

You can have a beard and be well presented however his school believe that having beard is not what they want and have decided to not allow them.They are entitled to do so until a law prohibits them from having such rules.

This whole issue is very simple.

Students joins school
Therefore he accepts the rules and conditions associated with attending the school.
Student has now broken the conditions of being in the school
Therefore the student is in the wrong.

Simple as that.

I'm not technically arguing against that either. I'm arguing the rule for the sake of a rule is pointless.

I've had to post virtually the same thing virtually three times in a row now.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

For the love of Christ, I am NOT artguing that students should be allowed to show up in whatever condition they want!! Why do you keep operating on that premise??



I'm not technically arguing against that either. I'm arguing the rule for the sake of a rule is pointless.

I've had to post virtually the same thing virtually three times in a row now.

You have been arguing that rules for the sake of rules are pointless.

I have kept on saying that this rule is there for a reason and not for the sake of the rule.

You keep coming back at my posts and I keep having to explain why the rule exists and that this is not a rule for the sake of a rule.

There is a reason the rule exists you just don't want to accept that.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I have kept on saying that this rule is there for a reason and not for the sake of the rule.

You keep coming back at my posts and I keep having to explain why the rule exists and that this is not a rule for the sake of a rule.

There is a reason the rule exists you just don't want to accept that.

If he'd been sent home for being scruffy or untidy, I'd agree with you, but he wasn't. He was sent home for a very specific reason: he had a beard.

A rule expecting people to be clean and tidy has a purpose - I've said that many times - I reason stating no beards does not.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

If he'd been sent home for being scruffy or untidy, I'd agree with you, but he wasn't. He was sent home for a very specific reason: he had a beard.

A rule expecting people to be clean and tidy has a purpose - I've said that many times - I reason stating no beards does not.

But the school obviously feel that having a beard on a 16/17 year looks untidy and that's why they have the rule barring them.

RedemptionZ

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

You have been arguing that rules for the sake of rules are pointless.

I have kept on saying that this rule is there for a reason and not for the sake of the rule.

You keep coming back at my posts and I keep having to explain why the rule exists and that this is not a rule for the sake of a rule.

There is a reason the rule exists you just don't want to accept that.

Nobody in favour of the rule has replied to this point so hopefully you can, why do you think Finland, the highest ranked education system in Europe has no uniform and how has this not irreparably damaged the reputation and image of these schools?

Furthermore, do you think the school should be more focused on maintaining a good image or on educating their pupils?

Conall Cernach

I'm in Monaghan and today I saw a boy from another school in the town with a beard. If the chap in the OP dislikes the rules in St. Macartan's so much he could perhaps change school to Beech Hill.

Dirty Dingus McGee

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Nobody in favour of the rule has replied to this point so hopefully you can, why do you think Finland, the highest ranked education system in Europe has no uniform and how has this not irreparably damaged the reputation and image of these schools?

Furthermore, do you think the school should be more focused on maintaining a good image or on educating their pupils?

Uniforms may make no difference the same way a dress code in work may makes no difference.

I've given loads of reason why schools and this school may think a uniform is a good idea just because they don't have them in Finland doesn't mean schools are wrong to have uniforms.This school having a uniform doesn't mean they are any less interested in educating their pupils.

The have decided this is what they want and any students who attend have to respect that.

rsh118

Just because schools in Finland don't have them, you are right, is no reason to not have them here.

The reason to not have them here is that there's not a single shred of evidence which substantiates the idea that uniform improves outcomes for children and leads to improved results.

Dirty Dingus McGee

rsh118 wrote: »

Just because schools in Finland don't have them, you are right, is no reason to not have them here.

The reason to not have them here is that there's not a single shred of evidence which substantiates the idea that uniform improves outcomes for children and leads to improved results.

But they don't disimprove results either.