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Tyres not roadworthy bigger cause of accidents than prev thought

24

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,893 ✭✭✭allthedoyles


    There are so many different types of tyres and we depend on the garage to sell us the correct ones.
    Like i had nct laxt year and one of the tyres was a snow tyre .
    Another time i went to garage and they told me i had two winter tyres and two summer tyres.
    And when the fitter was putting on a tyre he told me the tyre was for right hand side only and if i got puncture etc not to put this wheel on the other side.
    Then there are dodgy chinese tyres out there on the market and about 2 years ago i had a tyre with no E mark.
    I have heard of guys that go to Germany in their transit vans and drive home with full load of tyres .

    The tyre industry needs regulation ASAP.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Exactly they are not faulty and do not cause faults.

    Thanks for clearing that up
    do not cause faults.

    What sort of statement is that ?

    Do not cause faults ?



    No, they're sh!te









    may even be copies of cheap tires !


    "Many of our molds went missing, we have no idea of who may have made these tires, nor what they put in them"





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Lets say you buy a new tyre and it has 8mm tread on it (im taking 8mm as the figure as it was mentioned earlier in the thread); what mileage should a person reasonably (on average etc) expect from such a tyre?

    On a family car, I get at least a year, say 30,000 km out of a set of quality tyres.

    But tyres that last really well may do it by never actually being any good on day one.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭pablo128


    The article would suggest your driving was at fault if anything. Buying slightly more expensive tyres will not make you a racing car driver.

    Its almost laughable. I crashed because the tyres made me do it :pac: :rolleyes:

    Seriously. Why do you think you can buy some tyres much cheaper than others? Do you genuinely think all tyres are the same? It certainly comes across that way.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,780 ✭✭✭carzony


    New legislation will allow the Gardai to give you points and fine there and then. At the moment your straight to court for a dodgy tyre which seems such a waste stupidly long process.

    I think we need a serious clampdown by Gardai on tyres, bulbs, indicating, roundabout use ect..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    carzony wrote: »
    I think we need a serious clampdown by Gardai on tyres, bulbs, indicating, roundabout use ect..

    Tyres and bulbs, yes please.

    Indicating and rouddabouts - no, these are not a major cause of deaths on the road. Worst case, a roundabout idiot causes a low-speed accident and some insurance claims.

    Indicators - I can pretty reliably predict which indicator the car in front is about to use before they do - these are the well-behaved ones who actually indicate. Very low on my list of priorities.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,575 ✭✭✭166man


    Put two new Michelin Primacys on the 159 there last week. €270 all in in 215/55/16.

    Money well spent. Best tyres for that car.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,780 ✭✭✭carzony


    Tyres and bulbs, yes please.

    Indicating and rouddabouts - no, these are not a major cause of deaths on the road. Worst case, a roundabout idiot causes a low-speed accident and some insurance claims.

    Indicators - I can pretty reliably predict which indicator the car in front is about to use before they do - these are the well-behaved ones who actually indicate. Very low on my list of priorities.

    We should be avoiding accidents of any kind. Insurance is pricey enough without 'ah sure, It's only another small claim''. You can't really blame the Gardai as driver behaviour on motorways and roundabouts should be part of a driving test really.

    The bulb issue is a very simple issue to solve with a proper advertising campaign and enforcmement.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,780 ✭✭✭carzony


    What are the best brand in people's opinions? Michelin? Had Michelin tyres on a focus a few years ago and they were great. Lasted for ages..


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭shedweller


    If you were to increase it to near 4mm tyres wont last long at all, especially on these rds unlike germany. mabey 2.5mm the most i think would be fair.
    That said, the few extra grams of rubber to bring the tread depth up a bit would hardly cost much. Pennies?
    But of course, in good ole Ireland it will double the price of a tyre. It'll never happen.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    carzony wrote: »
    The bulb issue is a very simple issue to solve with a proper advertising campaign and enforcmement.

    Enforcement is the issue, not advertising.

    If people were hit with €100 every time they had a bad bulb, they wouldn't need advertising to tell them to change it.

    I drove a car for two years with the NCT cert and disc in the glove box. No-one ever asked me about it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    biko wrote: »
    Interesting, it's not on the current list
    http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Licensed%20Drivers/Penalty%20Points%20Chart1.pdf


    Most/all EU countries have 1.6mm, I'm pretty sure it's EU law and therefore Irish law.

    There is no specific points for bald tyres, however they can be issued under the driving a dangerous/defective vehicle heading and the Gardaí have been known to seize vehicles with bald tyres (and rightly so) under the same offence.

    https://twitter.com/GardaTraffic/status/709389018564317184


    Yes it's EU and Irish law, it applies accross the entire EU and has done so since 1991. The EU does not allow member states set higher minimum depths, 1.6mm is the minimum accross Europe.

    Many may not realise though that minimum tyre depth regulations only apply to the central three quarters of a tyres surface, there is no minimum standard depth for the rest of the tyre, in other words the outer edges 12.5% on each side can be as bald as you like once there is no tear, bulge, ply or cord exposed!

    EU countries can however set lower limits for vintage vehicles and it interesting to note that pre 1931 vehicles here only require a minimum 1mm on the condition they "are used in exceptional conditions and are never, or hardly ever, used on public roads". Never or hardly ever is a bit contradictory!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭power pants


    pablo128 wrote: »
    Seriously. Why do you think you can buy some tyres much cheaper than others? Do you genuinely think all tyres are the same? It certainly comes across that way.

    Seriously. to be competitive, to enter the market and sell more against the more established brands. seriously


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,703 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    Seriously. to be competitive, to enter the market and sell more against the more established brands. seriously

    Nothing to do with lower quality materials?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭Ferris


    I use this site for comparing tyres:

    http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/

    Highly subjective and unscientific but there is an undeniable trend towards cheap Chinese sh1te tyres getting poor ratings.

    Apart from the safety concerns I do not understand why people put up with the inevitable understeer / noise / lack of feel that crap / worn tyres provide, all for the equivalent of a few cents a day. I changed unworn accelera's on the front of my last car to goodyears and the driving experience was transformed, along with the ability of the car to react to an emergency driver input.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭whiskeyman


    Being in a motoring forum, I'd odds on most (all?) here will check their tyres.
    I check mine regularly enough, but got a fair warning last year on the importance.

    I knew the wear was going down, so decided to replace all 4.
    The very next day, a cyclist crossed the road in front of me (thought they had green pedestrian light... they didn't) and I was doing 50kph.
    I had to do an emergancy brake and I stopped literally at their tyres as they froze like a rabbit in headlights.
    I've no doubt that without those new tyres and the extra grip it gave, she would have probably been a goner and many lives would have been destroyed that day.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭wil


    I always thought this was a penalty point offense already too. Saw a taxi today with completely bald slicks, lethal.

    I thought that too until I checked a few weeks back. I have a feeling it was announced as such in the media during one round of RSA announcements but maybe that's as far as it went officially.

    TBH there are loads of offences, actually a majority so rarely enforced I'd say it's only if found after an accident or inspection in conjunction with another "serious" offence.

    "Driving a vehicle when unfit "- surely that's an incentive to get on your bike;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,009 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Some aspects of motoring are not that obvious to the general public, but tyres are something that anyone can easily check any day of the week. Tyres represent a very minor part of the cost of motoring when compared to insurance, fuel and depreciation. There is no excuse.

    It would be good if someone could invent a video gadget that you just put on the ground and which flags dodgy tyres driven over it, then this could be placed at checkpoints and all that was required was to slow people to 10kph driving over it. Obvious if the thing went beep a Garda could investigate further.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,282 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    VeVeX wrote: »
    Minimum legal thread depth in Germany is 1.6mm.

    Peddlers of part worn tyres often say the legal limit in Germany is 4mm to add some logic to their sales pitch whereby the crazy Germans bin perfectly good tyres.

    Winter tyres need to be replaced at 4mm.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭pablo128


    Seriously. to be competitive, to enter the market and sell more against the more established brands. seriously

    OK. Can you explain to me then why Garda cars only have premium brands fitted to them?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,884 ✭✭✭✭joujoujou
    Unregistered Users


    Because they spend taxpayer's money for them. :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    Ferris wrote: »
    I use this site for comparing tyres:

    http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/

    I changed unworn accelera's on the front of my last car to goodyears and the driving experience was transformed, along with the ability of the car to react to an emergency driver input.

    Accelera alphas? Shocking yokes. Had to dump a set that came on a used car. I hope they weren't sold on as part worn to some sucker. If they were then I don't want to meet him in the wet!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭wil


    This post has been deleted.

    Do they carry the E mark?

    Might be worth stickying the link
    http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Your-Vehicle/About-your-Vehicle/Example-of-non-Dup/Your-Vehicles-Tyres-/Choosing-a-Tyre/

    I suspect driving on bald tyres is a good indication of a generally lax attitude to road safety along with poor brakes etc. As it is easy to visually inspect and detect it is probably a good way of detecting vehicles with multiple safety issues.

    The quality and safety of tyres available to purchase should be the subject of legal standards and enforcement.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭ectoraige


    joujoujou wrote: »
    No more "speed kills" BS?

    What a surprise. :cool:

    They didn't say excessive speed is no longer a major contributing factor to road traffic accidents causing deaths. They identified poor tyre condition to be a contributing factor to road traffic accidents.

    If there was a single cause of deaths, it would be easy to solve.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭wil


    ectoraige wrote: »
    They didn't say excessive speed is no longer a major contributing factor to road traffic accidents causing deaths. They identified poor tyre condition to be a contributing factor to road traffic accidents.

    If there was a single cause of deaths, it would be easy to solve.
    Unfortunately the media / people and dare I say it AGS seem to focus on singular issues. Important adjectives such as "excessive" or "inappropriate" ignored.

    New offences are announced, singularly targeted for a few weeks, then ignored and eventually forgotten. Only something that has a machine and can be measured remain on the radar, pun intended. Hence "driving in excess of the speed limit" and driving with excess alcohol and of course the mainstay of checkpoints - car tax.
    I have seen too many serious driving offences go unnoticed for reasons unknown to me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,332 ✭✭✭SCOOP 64


    I've just looked at my tyres to see the make purchase about 3 yrs ago (new) , the make Triangles,
    i have never noticed anything bad about them, they do have the E mark. so surely must pass some sort of quality testing ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    SCOOP 64 wrote: »
    they do have the E mark. so surely must pass some sort of quality testing ?

    Yes, they are legal. No-one has said Triangles or ling-longs are illegal - we just wish the tests were stricter and these brands had to up their game. 30% longer stopping distance is no joke.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭power pants


    pablo128 wrote: »
    OK. Can you explain to me then why Garda cars only have premium brands fitted to them?

    they use dunlop or goodyears

    it's their choice. Im not dictating what people should put on their cars. I think some respect would go along way when someone has a differing opinion on here.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,267 ✭✭✭visual


    SCOOP 64 wrote: »
    I've just looked at my tyres to see the make purchase about 3 yrs ago (new) , the make Triangles,
    i have never noticed anything bad about them, they do have the E mark. so surely must pass some sort of quality testing ?

    They are road legal but that is it.
    Bought my current car with triangle tyres all round, drove fine in dry but was woeful on wet road.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Im not dictating what people should put on their cars. I think some respect would go along way when someone has a differing opinion on here.

    If I came on here and said I'm grand to drive up to five or six pints, people would not respect that opinion, because it is wrong.

    Triangles are unsafe. Tests prove it. The regulations should be tightened.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭power pants


    If I came on here and said I'm grand to drive up to five or six pints, people would not respect that opinion, because it is wrong.

    Triangles are unsafe. Tests prove it. The regulations should be tightened.

    You are not making any sense now :confused:

    drink driving is illegal, cheaper tyres are not.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,902 ✭✭✭frozenfrozen


    Many years ago drink driving was not as regulated as it is today. Power pants what people are trying to say is that tyres should become more regulated, to try make the roads safer. The same reason you can't drink a few pints and drive home anymore.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    drink driving is illegal, cheaper tyres are not.

    Yes, but why?

    ABS, airbags and seatbelts are mandatory. You can't choose to buy a new car and save money by unticking these lifesaving features. Why can you fit dangerous tyres?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭pa990


    I think the RSA are referring to tyres with bulges, baldness, incorrect pressure, incorrect size etc rather than ditch finders.

    It took years upon years to adjust the irish psyche about drink driving.
    I think they'll have a harder battle with their battle with tyres.

    Is it true that in Germany you can only have a certain brand/model/size of tyre on your car.
    (Well the choice of 3 or 4)
    And that if you are involved in an accident you will be more liable if you had an unapproved tyre.


    (On another note..... why don't we ever get second hand ditch finders from Germany ?)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    pa990 wrote: »
    I think they'll have a harder battle with their battle with tyres.

    New cars have loads of safety features that people would not pay extra for if they had a choice. People thought seatbelts would trap them in a fire, they thought airbags would go off and cause crashes, they still think they can brake and steer better without ABS...

    Pass a feckin EU rule, job done, same as the other improvements which have slashed deaths on the road.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,494 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    pa990 wrote: »
    Is it true that in Germany you can only have a certain brand/model/size of tyre on your car.
    No, but I think you are restricted to the specs as noted in your Fahrzeugschein (log book), i.e. size, speed and load ratings. No deciding to put different sized tyres on for the craic, or because they're cheaper.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭wil


    pa990 wrote: »
    I think the RSA are referring to tyres with bulges, baldness, incorrect pressure, incorrect size etc rather than ditch finders.

    It took years upon years to adjust the irish psyche about drink driving.
    I think they'll have a harder battle with their battle with tyres.

    Drink driving very different to bald tyres, tyres don't sober up or require breath test and are relatively easily detected just by inspection and are present regardless of who drives.

    Quite easy to tighten the rules on tyres over a few years via the NCT..
    They are already advising re old tyres and failing bad tyres. Over 4 years most inferior tyres could be eliminated if drivers were required to replace full sets, then manufacturers would stop selling them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭pablo128


    they use dunlop or goodyears

    it's their choice. Im not dictating what people should put on their cars. I think some respect would go along way when someone has a differing opinion on here.

    You dont have a different opinion, you have shown you have very little knowledge regarding vehicle tyres. I happen to to know a lot about them.

    Garda cars use a premium brand of tyre because they offer more grip in the wet and dry. Otherwise they wouldn't bother. The Garda driving the car into a tyre centre doesn't get to choose the tyre. The car gets an already agreed brand and size.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 868 ✭✭✭peking97


    So when (at what tread depth) do you guys recommend changing tyres?
    I wouldn't like to go too close to the 1.6 mm limit!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    There is a tread wear indicator on the tyres, if this is flush with the tread it's time.
    3mm is usually recommended.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,873 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    say I go to nct and thread is marginally over 1.6 limit, I can leave and drive on them for 2 years, ha they would be like racing slicks! Cars should be in there every year full stop! also thread should be raised to at least 3mm...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭pablo128


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    say I go to nct and thread is marginally over 1.6 limit, I can leave and drive on them for 2 years, ha they would be like racing slicks! Cars should be in there every year full stop! also thread should be raised to at least 3mm...

    People shouldn't rely on the nct to tell them their tyres are worn out, though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    say I go to nct and thread is marginally over 1.6 limit, I can leave and drive on them for 2 years, ha they would be like racing slicks! Cars should be in there every year full stop! also thread should be raised to at least 3mm...

    say I go to nct and exhaust is marginally below limit, I can leave and drive for 2 years,

    say I go to nct and brakes is marginally above limit, I can leave and drive for 2 years,

    say I go to nct and suspension is marginally above limit, I can leave and drive for 2 years,

    The same can be said for many things, just because NCT say your car is ok on one day doesn't mean it is the next. Drivers need to take responsibility for their cars regardless of the NCT


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    say I go to nct and thread is marginally over 1.6 limit, I can leave and drive on them for 2 years, ha they would be like racing slicks! Cars should be in there every year full stop! also thread should be raised to at least 3mm...

    NCT is to make sure that people make an effort every year or two and bring the car to sensible condition. The cert states that the car is ok at the date of testing and next test is to be done before yada yada. It does not say it is going to be roadworthy for that period of time.

    If NCT regime wasn't there, half of the cars will not ever had a bulb changed...


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    cruizer101 wrote: »
    say I go to nct and exhaust is marginally below limit, I can leave and drive for 2 years,

    say I go to nct and brakes is marginally above limit, I can leave and drive for 2 years,

    say I go to nct and suspension is marginally above limit, I can leave and drive for 2 years,

    The same can be said for many things, just because NCT say your car is ok on one day doesn't mean it is the next. Drivers need to take responsibility for their cars regardless of the NCT

    Something the RSA made very clear in their recent radio ads:-
    A Valid NCT only confirms that a car met a minimum standard on the day of the test, it can't guarantee safety in the days, weeks and months that followed

    And surprisingly there were complaints about it apparently.

    http://www.redfm.ie/news/cork/rsa-reacts-to-complaints-about-recent-advert/


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,794 ✭✭✭Jesus.


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    say I go to nct and thread is marginally over 1.6 limit, I can leave and drive on them for 2 years, ha they would be like racing slicks! Cars should be in there every year full stop!

    :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,873 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    People shouldn't rely on the nct to tell them their tyres are worn out, though.
    Say I go to nct and exhaust is marginally below limit, I can leave and drive for 2 years,

    say I go to nct and brakes is marginally above limit, I can leave and drive for 2 years,

    say I go to nct and suspension is marginally above limit, I can leave and drive for 2 years,

    The same can be said for many things, just because NCT say your car is ok on one day doesn't mean it is the next. Drivers need to take responsibility for their cars regardless of the NCT

    your points are both true. But people wont look after these things for the most part, isnt that why we have the nct? Every two years is a joke or four years for new, LOL how many miles are some reps running up in a year on new cars?! Good to know the pads, tyres, discs etc can go four years legally, without being checked :rolleyes:

    Knock the cost of the test off motor tax to avoid any "money making racket" claims. Every car is in every year...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,873 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Jesus. wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    its every year in the Uk, but I am sure we know better than them :rolleyes:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    Canadel wrote: »
    Tyre - only part of a car that comes into direct contact with the road.

    And I'm always amused by the amount of bad "drivers" who try to challenge that maxim on public roads.

    They're usually the ones talking about the great tyres they have.....


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