Garda, nurses, teachers and doctor's pay

tayto lover · 31-03-2016 07:15PM

Why don't you leave the force and go private?
Why don't you leave teaching and go private?
Why don't you leave nursing and go private?

Why don't you leave ....... blah blah blah.
The last resort in any argument is "why don't you leave ... and go private?".

If everyone left there'd be nobody to answer your call for help, stitch your wounds or teach your kids.

Pay the people a proper wage and be done with it. Teachers, garda, nurse deserve better than they're getting so pay them.

PARlance · 31-03-2016 07:23PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Why don't you leave the force and go private?
Why don't you leave teaching and go private?
Why don't you leave nursing and go private?

Why don't you leave ....... blah blah blah.
The last resort in any argument is "why don't you leave ... and go private?".

If everyone left there'd be nobody to answer your call for help, stitch your wounds or teach your kids.

Pay the people a proper wage and be done with it. Teachers, garda, nurse deserve better than they're getting so pay them.

I'm asking one poster but thanks for your input.
Hopefully they don't all leave now. I'll feel as if it was my fault.

tayto lover · 31-03-2016 07:25PM

PARlance wrote: »

I'm asking one poster but thanks for your input.
Hopefully they don't all leave now. I'll feel as if it was my fault.

Yeah really, begrudgery is rife throughout this thread.

PARlance · 31-03-2016 07:34PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Yeah really, begrudgery is rife throughout this thread.

Yes, anyone that doesn't agree is a begrudger.

tayto lover · 31-03-2016 07:38PM

PARlance wrote: »

Yes, anyone that doesn't agree is a begrudger.

No. BUT there are certain posters who stand out.

PARlance · 31-03-2016 07:41PM

tayto lover wrote: »

No. BUT there are certain posters who stand out.

Happy to debate anything if you would like to make a worthwhile contribution. I may not agree with others but at least they are offering some form of debate.

tayto lover · 31-03-2016 07:46PM

PARlance wrote: »

Happy to debate anything if you would like to make a worthwhile contribution. I may not agree with others but at least they are offering some form of debate.

So" why don't you leave if your not happy" is debate now?
This "i have a friend, uncle, brother-in-law etc" in your job is nonsense too.

It's begrudging. Simple as.

doireannod · 31-03-2016 08:19PM

PARlance wrote: »

I'm asking one poster but thanks for your input.
Hopefully they don't all leave now. I'll feel as if it was my fault.

Audibly laughed at this!

:):)

doireannod · 31-03-2016 08:24PM

tayto lover wrote: »

So" why don't you leave if your not happy" is debate now?
This "i have a friend, uncle, brother-in-law etc" in your job is nonsense too.

It's begrudging. Simple as.

How is suggesting that someone leave their job begrudgery? And drawing from ones personal experience to try to understand a situation (eg. my mother was a teacher and had a great work life balance) also isn't begrudgery.

Furthermore, "simple as" isn't even a sentence not to mind an argument.

tayto lover · 31-03-2016 09:03PM

doireannod wrote: »

How is suggesting that someone leave their job begrudgery? And drawing from ones personal experience to try to understand a situation (eg. my mother was a teacher and had a great work life balance) also isn't begrudgery.

Furthermore, "simple as" isn't even a sentence not to mind an argument.

Do you think that everyone who likes their job but doesn't feel they are paid well enough should leave and find alternative employment? Should they just put up and shut up? If everyone left for those reasons the country would be in some state.

doireannod · 31-03-2016 09:09PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Do you think that everyone who likes their job but doesn't feel they are paid well enough should leave and find alternative employment? Should they just put up and shut up? If everyone left for those reasons the country would be in some state.

Of course I don't think that. But I also don't think that begrudgery drives those types of comments. If I complained about doing 24 hour shifts and you told me to leave medicine if I wasn't happy I wouldn't conclude that you are a begrudger.

tayto lover · 31-03-2016 09:11PM

doireannod wrote: »

Of course I don't think that. But I also don't think that begrudgery drives those types of comments. If complained about doing 24 hour shifts and you told me to leave medicine if I wasn't happy I wouldn't conclude that you are a begrudger.

You don't see the trend of begrudgery on this thread? Really?
It reeks of "nobody should earn the same as me" all through it.

doireannod · 31-03-2016 09:17PM

tayto lover wrote: »

You don't see the trend of begrudgery on this thread? Really?
It reeks of "nobody should earn the same as me" all through it.

I don't think anyone begrudges anyone here. I certainly don't begrudge teachers. And I haven't felt the victim of begrudgery. Everyone's having their say. Voicing your opinion about something isn't begrudgery.

I think begrudgery is more like "look at her there swanning around in her new car and fancy clothes with the 10k she won last year". In this example, the person begrudges the fact that the other person won money as opposed to being happy for them.

I haven't sensed begrudgery on this thread. Healthy and heated debate is all.

31-03-2016 09:50PM

This thread is so depressing.
I don't begrudge people getting a decent wage.
I don't even complain about TDs salaries, they do have a job I would never do. It's not easy.
Doctors & nurses deserve a decent wage, we should pay them well. Imagine working 24/48 hr shifts? I don't care if they get paid 70 k + a year, they well deserve it. If my mam is in hospital, and maybe someday me, I hope the people treating her/me get well paid for what they do.

I don't have kids, but I would prefer that the people teaching them enjoy their job, do it well & get paid well to do it.

Obviously I would like gardai to get paid well, without having to break their backs doing overtime to make a wage they can live on.
I don't for one second begrudge anyone in the private sector getting as much as they can for what they do, so long as they do not effect the population as such ( ie luas drivers )

We should have our public sector earning a good decent wage, that allows them to live their lives without worrying about money, without them looking to make extra money through nixers & overtime.
They should be free to do their jobs, to the best of their abilities, to enjoy what they do, they do it for the benefit of all society.
No one wants begrudgers and bitter people in their public services?
Surely everyone wants the best for society?

Any society I have seen, where public sector workers get rubbish wages, is honestly not one I would like to live in.
It shouldn't be private vs public, public should be there for everyone's good, and private sector employees should appreciate these people that are here for their assistance.
This thread is so depressing, I can't read it anymore.

Inspector Coptoor · 31-03-2016 09:51PM

doireannod wrote: »

I don't think anyone begrudges anyone here. I certainly don't begrudge teachers. And I haven't felt the victim of begrudgery. Everyone's having their say. Voicing your opinion about something isn't begrudgery.

I think begrudgery is more like "look at her there swanning around in her new car and fancy clothes with the 10k she won last year". In this example, the person begrudges the fact that the other person won money as opposed to being happy for them.

I haven't sensed begrudgery on this thread. Healthy and heated debate is all.

I'd agree with all of this.
I also agree with your point that a doctor SHOULD start on more money than a teacher, but that doesn't mean I think €31k a year is enough for a teacher starting wage given how long it takes them to reach top of the scale and the few chances of promotion.

I've already said I feel doctors should start on €50k.
I think that's fair considering how much tax they would pay on the wages between €33,800 and €50,000 - PAYE at 40%, USC at 5.5%, PRSI @ 3.5%, pension levy and pension giving a marginal rate of about 60% on €16,200 over the SRCOP.

maryishere · 31-03-2016 10:08PM

Geuze wrote: »

This has data up to 2015.

http://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/earnings/

Annual data for 2014:

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/elca/earningsandlabourcostsannualdata2014/

The most recent release:

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/elcq/earningsandlabourcostsq32015finalq42015preliminaryestimates/

There is info here too: http://www.thejournal.ie/public-sector-wage-higher-300-than-private-sector-1637290-Aug2014/
It says public sector average wages are €300 per week higher than private sector.
It does not mention the fact the working week for full time workers is shorter in the public sector, the job security, the fact public sector workers take more "sickies" on average, the big payoff tax free bonus on retirement ( 18 months salary) or the big pension (50% of salary).
In Germany there is no premium that public sector workers have over private sector. Here is it just ridiculous.

purplecow1977 · 31-03-2016 10:29PM

maryishere wrote: »

There is info here too: http://www.thejournal.ie/public-sector-wage-higher-300-than-private-sector-1637290-Aug2014/
It says public sector average wages are €300 per week higher than private sector.
It does not mention the fact the working week for full time workers is shorter in the public sector, the job security, the fact public sector workers take more "sickies" on average, the big payoff tax free bonus on retirement ( 18 months salary) or the big pension (50% of salary).
In Germany there is no premium that public sector workers have over private sector. Here is it just ridiculous.

I'll give you some info on these 'sickies' will I?

If I am sick on Friday and not in work, and I am sick on Monday and not in work, that's FOUR days counted of my sick leave. Saturday and Sunday are included as well, even though I'm not supposed to work those days anyway. That's not reported in the media is it? So just give that some consideration the next time 'sick' days are bandied about - because you can be damn sure they're not going to exclude the Saturday and Sunday in my example! Any article can be twisted to suit a point!

Your comment stinks of total begrudgery (the type that was suggested earlier). Get rid of that chip on your shoulder - you'll feel all the better for it.

And I just skimmed that article. "Weekly wage of €918"??? Hahahhahahahhahahahha

Thanks for that!

You also failed to include this, which is probably important in terms of accuracy:
"Ibec chief economist Fergal O’Brien warned that the average pay level in the public sector could be skewed by the presence of well-paid officials at the top, while recruitment may have languished at the bottom rungs of the pay ladder."

And since you're a fan of articles, here's a more recent one from 2015 which states "But the analysis also showed that after the pay cuts were brought in for 2010, employees in the top pay brackets (public sector) were earning significantly less than those on big salaries in the private sector.
The top one-tenth of earners were paid 9.5% less in the public service than those working for private companies"

Very interesting isn't it?

31-03-2016 10:29PM

maryishere wrote: »

There is info here too: http://www.thejournal.ie/public-sector-wage-higher-300-than-private-sector-1637290-Aug2014/
It says public sector average wages are €300 per week higher than private sector.
It does not mention the fact the working week for full time workers is shorter in the public sector, the job security, the fact public sector workers take more "sickies" on average, the big payoff tax free bonus on retirement ( 18 months salary) or the big pension (50% of salary).
In Germany there is no premium that public sector workers have over private sector. Here is it just ridiculous.

So what is your point?
Do you think public service workers are overpaid?
What do you do for a living? I think it's relevant if you're coming on here talking about thousands of other people's wages.
Are you just one of the bitter ones?
If you think you should get more money, look for it from your employer.
If you're happy with what you get why would you begrudge the public service workers, the ones that keep the country going, their wages?

maryishere · 31-03-2016 10:41PM

bubblypop wrote: »

So what is your point?
Do you think public service workers are overpaid?

Most in the private sector do not just think it, they know it. And is its the taxes of the private sector going to the government which in turn pays the public sector, working and retired, so it affects the private sector as they are the net contributors of taxes.

bubblypop wrote: »

If you think you should get more money, look for it from your employer.

There are well over a million people in the private sector. Employers and the country cannot afford to pay private sector works each 300 more per week, or give big pensions to. What sort of a state would the country be in if that was the case - it would be totally uncompetitive.

leanonme · 31-03-2016 10:44PM

maryishere wrote: »

There is info here too: http://www.thejournal.ie/public-sector-wage-higher-300-than-private-sector-1637290-Aug2014/
It says public sector average wages are €300 per week higher than private sector.
It does not mention the fact the working week for full time workers is shorter in the public sector, the job security, the fact public sector workers take more "sickies" on average, the big payoff tax free bonus on retirement ( 18 months salary) or the big pension (50% of salary).
In Germany there is no premium that public sector workers have over private sector. Here is it just ridiculous.

Everyone knows that there are big issues in the public sector regarding the number of management. If they reduced the number of management then the stats would change. No one can disagree that the starting salary for a teacher, or nurse who has qualified since 2008 is not good enough for someone who has a degree, same can be said of a guard.

I know the area I'm working in has had a pay cut and freeze since 2008, not too many other areas can say that they have had a pay decrease and not had 1cent pay increase in 8 years, even tho there have been court ruling regarding the need for pay for hours worked (working time act for sleep overs) they are not being followed because although it is government funded its a voluntary organisation

purplecow1977 · 31-03-2016 10:44PM

maryishere wrote: »

Most in the private sector do not just think it, they know it. And is its the taxes of the private sector going to the government which in turn pays the public sector, working and retired, so it affects the private sector as they are the net contributors of taxes.

That old argument is really tiring. I'll show you my payslip if you want - bit of tax taken out of my wages too so don't be blinkered into thinking otherwise!

maryishere wrote: »

There are well over a million people in the private sector. Employers and the country cannot afford to pay private sector works each 300 more per week, or give big pensions to. What sort of a state would the country be in if that was the case - it would be totally uncompetitive.

You're still bandying on about this extra €300. Did you have chance to look at the articles I linked? They might be useful. It is probably also important to remember an article to prove anything can be sourced on the interweb! ie. I could probably find one that says red wine is good for you and one that says the opposite so don't get TOO carried away with your 'research' Mary

tayto lover · 31-03-2016 10:47PM

There's not much difference between jealousy and begrudgery really.

Tomorrow i'm going to get a sledgehammer and knock a bit off the top of my house. It's higher than my neighbours and rather than him build up i think i'll just knock a bit off mine.

doireannod · 31-03-2016 10:51PM

tayto lover wrote: »

There's not much difference between jealousy and begrudgery really.

Tomorrow i'm going to get a sledgehammer and knock a bit off the top of my house. It's higher than my neighbours and rather than him build up i think i'll just knock a bit off mine.

Yeah. Jealousy is a synonym for begrudgery. I don't think anyone here is jealous of anyone else either! I haven't a clue what point you're making. You're not engaging in discussion and replying to points put to you. You're just throwing out random comments.

Inspector Coptoor · 31-03-2016 10:54PM

maryishere wrote: »

Most in the private sector do not just think it, they know it. And is its the taxes of the private sector going to the government which in turn pays the public sector, working and retired, so it affects the private sector as they are the net contributors of taxes.

There are well over a million people in the private sector. Employers and the country cannot afford to pay private sector works each 300 more per week, or give big pensions to. What sort of a state would the country be in if that was the case - it would be totally uncompetitive.

You don't think public sector workers pay taxes, do you?
Are you completely off your trolley or just ignorant?
I paid €14k in tax last year, €2470 in PRSI and €3600 in USC for a total of almost €20k in deductions, not including pension and pension levy.
That's enough to pay for the dole for 2 people for a year.
Just think about that for a minute.

maryishere · 31-03-2016 10:55PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Tomorrow i'm going to get a sledgehammer and knock a bit off the top of my house. It's higher than my neighbours and rather than him build up i think i'll just knock a bit off mine.

Just tell him he can stop paying you €300 more per week than he is paying himself, and that you do not expect a much bigger pension than he gets, and that may be ok.;)

maryishere · 31-03-2016 10:57PM

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

You don't think public sector workers pay taxes, do you?

I do, but as someone else said you are giving back to the government with one hand a bit of what the government has given you in to your other hand.

purplecow1977 · 31-03-2016 10:58PM

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

You don't think public sector workers pay taxes, do you?
Are you completely off your trolley or just ignorant?
I paid €14k in tax last year, €2470 in PRSI and €3600 in USC for a total of almost €20k in deductions, not including pension and pension levy.
That's enough to pay for the dole for 2 people for a year.
Just think about that for a minute.

Mary avoided replying to my comment so I think she's unwilling to engage with any rational conversation!

These people and their blinkers! They are giving me a bit of a chuckle before bedtime thought so thanks!!

tayto lover · 31-03-2016 11:03PM

doireannod wrote: »

Yeah. Jealousy is a synonym for begrudgery. I don't think anyone here is jealous of anyone else either! I haven't a clue what point you're making. You're not engaging in discussion and replying to points put to you. You're just throwing out random comments.

Of course you don't. You couldn't admit to that or maybe you didn't read any of mary's posts.

Inspector Coptoor · 31-03-2016 11:03PM

maryishere wrote: »

I do, but as someone else said you are giving back to the government with one hand a bit of what the government has given you in to your other hand.

And continue to do so any time I buy petrol for the car, any time I pay VAT on any product, when I pay my local property tax, when I paid over €4000 in stamp duty recently.
A HUGE amount of money paid by the government to public sector workers goes straight back into the government coffers and you have the AUDACITY to come out with garbage statements like that.

31-03-2016 11:04PM

maryishere wrote: »

Most in the private sector do not just think it, they know it. And is its the taxes of the private sector going to the government which in turn pays the public sector, working and retired, so it affects the private sector as they are the net contributors of taxes.

So you believe that doctors, nurses, teachers, gardai, prison officers etc etc are overpaid?
You genuinely believe that?

Garda, nurses, teachers and doctor's pay

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