Garda, nurses, teachers and doctor's pay

Geuze · 31-03-2016 03:04PM

maudgonner wrote: »

Thanks Geuze.

I checked back and the 28,500 was quoted as the median wage. Is that figure right? (just out of interest)

In all my travels, I have never found any data for the median wage.

I would love to know where people are getting the median wage from.

Please show me the data source.

I can find mean earnings, that's easy, but not median wages.

njs030 · 31-03-2016 03:04PM

esforum wrote: »

by how much?

I'm not going to go into details on a public forum but it should be sufficient to say my ex and best friend are both guards and I'm well aware of what the allowances add up to.

While officially they "can" be fired for incompetence it's a very rare event and generally only happens if they do something that draws public scrutiny.

Geuze · 31-03-2016 03:05PM

Now, what I can find is median incomes, but not median earnings.

Hmmmm, maybe I can get the median earnings figures from the SILC.

But the problem with the SILC is that most data is at the household level.

stoneill · 31-03-2016 03:06PM

Geuze wrote: »

I am quoting you CSO data, you can look it up yourself.

http://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/earnings/

Average weekly earnings are 712.75, or 37,191.

Within industry, defined as NACE sectors B-E, average weekly earnings are 864.09, or 45,088.

It is obvious that earnings would be higher in industry than across the whole economy.

It only goes to 2008 - is there any data that is more up to date as I suspect the pay rates go down after 2008.

Geuze · 31-03-2016 03:09PM

stoneill wrote: »

It only goes to 2008 - is there any data that is more up to date as I suspect the pay rates go down after 2008.

This has data up to 2015.

http://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/earnings/

Annual data for 2014:

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/elca/earningsandlabourcostsannualdata2014/

The most recent release:

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/elcq/earningsandlabourcostsq32015finalq42015preliminaryestimates/

maudgonner · 31-03-2016 03:11PM

Geuze wrote: »

In all my travels, I have never found any data for the median wage.

I would love to know where people are getting the median wage from.

Please show me the data source.

I can find mean earnings, that's easy, but not median wages.

I googled it and it appears in this Irish Times article.

(Median earnings, as opposed to median wage - I'm not aware of any significance to that difference in terminology though?).

It quotes 28,500 as the median for all those in work, and 32,000 as the median for those in full-time work.

Geuze · 31-03-2016 03:12PM

stoneill wrote: »

It only goes to 2008 - is there any data that is more up to date as I suspect the pay rates go down after 2008.

You may be looking at the discontinued series on the right hand side.

Please look at the headings on the left side.

Mardy Bum · 31-03-2016 03:13PM

doireannod wrote: »

So you you consider progressing up a pay scale an "allowance"?

Do consider working on a Sunday and getting paid for it an "allowance"?

Do you consider being paid to be on call off site an "allowance"?

Living out allowance was what I was referring to which would bring you above 40k in your second year.

Perhaps I should have been more specific in my references.
The first year is brutally paid however you are over 40k very quickly granted you still have to survive on 30k for a year. It takes teachers years to earn 31k never mind 40k which a doctor can earn after a year.

The payscale is what this whole debate is surrounding. You got your knickers in a knot because someone had the audacity to claim teachers and doctors should be paid similarly at the start of their careers. Obviously doctors will earn substantially more later on and I have no issue with this and if you want to attract highly intelligent people into teaching you need a carrot of some sort as the job provides little in the way of promotion.

I will be mindful of my use of the word allowance.

Geuze · 31-03-2016 03:16PM

maudgonner wrote: »

I googled it and it appears in this Irish Times article.

(Median earnings, as opposed to median wage - I'm not aware of any significance to that difference in terminology though?).

It quotes 28,500 as the median for all those in work, and 32,000 as the median for those in full-time work.

You will note that the article start by using the CSO published data on mean earnings, 35,600.

Then the article says "median earnings are estimated at 28,500".

That may well be true, but that figure is not published by the CSO.

Note that the article does not attribute that 28,500 figure to the CSO.

So, somebody has estimated median earnings to be 28,500, but the author of the article doesn't mention the data source.

PARlance · 31-03-2016 03:17PM

esforum wrote: »

The myths continue, Gardai, Nurses, etc can all be fired for incompetance, Its a myth that they cant.

I have already addressed that, who was speaking purely about Ireland? Whole big bad world out there.

Correct on the income, but again. Gardai deserve better pay than a factlory worker, sorry but they do.

SME's can be upto 200 or 300 employees depending on nation. A company emplying 300 people owned by a single entity? yeah, that owners on low money allright, and over there is the tree I fell out of.

Whats the average income for self employed people? Do you know?

Whats the average income for workers with degrees? Do you know?

Whats the average annual profit across SME's?

Does a private doctor earn more or less than a public?

what about a private nurse?

Trying to think of others than cross the divide. Mercenaries compared to soldiers maybe?

You have to be spectacular in your incompetence to get fired from the Public Service. You basically need to break a serious law. I have many friends in the Public Service and this is probably their biggest annoyance, people aren't accountable, and it's not fair on those that put in the effort.

This thread is based on the Irish Public Service. This website is Irish. A pathetic attempt by you to wriggle out of a point.

As for the 9 other questions you managed to ask in one post, I'm sorry but I don't have time for that.

maudgonner · 31-03-2016 03:30PM

Geuze wrote: »

You will note that the article start by using the CSO published data on mean earnings, 35,600.

Then the article says "median earnings are estimated at 28,500".

That may well be true, but that figure is not published by the CSO.

Note that the article does not attribute that 28,500 figure to the CSO.

So, somebody has estimated median earnings to be 28,500, but the author of the article doesn't mention the data source.

That's good info, thanks Geuze.

I have no background in stats or economics, so when I read what an economist writes I always assume that it's backed up by facts & figures - good to have it pointed out that it's not always the case.

31-03-2016 03:55PM

maudgonner wrote: »

Obviously 'throwing venom' isn't going to help anyone. But should we not be able to talk about how public money is spent? If it's done in the right way, I don't see why we shouldn't be able to discuss it. It might even give a better perspective on how much extra teachers put into their jobs that can't be seen from the outside.

Oh discussion is always a good thing. It's when it turns in to the "them vs us" line of thinking that I'm left baffled.

Paulzx · 31-03-2016 03:56PM

PARlance wrote: »

You have to be spectacular in your incompetence to get fired from the Public Service. You basically need to break a serious law. I have many friends in the Public Service and this is probably their biggest annoyance, people aren't accountable, and it's not fair on those that put in the effort.

This thread is based on the Irish Public Service. This website is Irish. A pathetic attempt by you to wriggle out of a point.

As for the 9 other questions you managed to ask in one post, I'm sorry but I don't have time for that.

To be fair you have to be spectacular in your incompetance to get fired from most jobs in Ireland. The labour laws just don't allow for easy dismissal no matter what sector you work in. Just looking at some of the appeals that are won by employees after dismissal would blow your mind how they can actually win them.

The public sector is changing. Yes, if you're cute enough to coast whilst doing just enough you're pretty much bullet proof but that applies in most jobs. Rewards for innovative and above standard employees are still minimal. There is defintely a culture change in accountablity but in an organisation as broad and large as a public service things don't move quickly.

purplecow1977 · 31-03-2016 04:02PM

Paulzx wrote: »

To be fair you have to be spectacular in your incompetance to get fired from most jobs in Ireland. The labour laws just don't allow for easy dismissal no matter what sector you work in. Just looking at some of the appeals that are won by employees after dismissal would blow your mind how they can actually win them.

The public sector is changing. Yes, if you're cute enough to coast whilst doing just enough you're pretty much bullet proof but that applies in most jobs. Rewards for innovative and above standard employees are still minimal. There is defintely a culture change in accountablity but in an organisation as broad and large as a public service things don't move quickly.

Fully agree.

My pal works for a private company. All expenses paid hotel stays for meetings, along with regular bonuses. He mentioned that Thursday nights are or at least were popular staff nights out so Fridays were fairly unproductive and that many Fridays were spent logging into boards.ie and trolling various threads ironically! I've gone into supermarkets and waited at a counter to be served while staff members finish their conversations!

Unproductive people exist EVERYWHERE and few are actually fired as a direct result of this. To suggest otherwise is fairly rose-tinted!

doireannod · 31-03-2016 04:16PM

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Living out allowance was what I was referring to which would bring you above 40k in your second year.

Perhaps I should have been more specific in my references.
The first year is brutally paid however you are over 40k very quickly granted you still have to survive on 30k for a year. It takes teachers years to earn 31k never mind 40k which a doctor can earn after a year.

The payscale is what this whole debate is surrounding. You got your knickers in a knot because someone had the audacity to claim teachers and doctors should be paid similarly at the start of their careers. Obviously doctors will earn substantially more later on and I have no issue with this and if you want to attract highly intelligent people into teaching you need a carrot of some sort as the job provides little in the way of promotion.

I will be mindful of my use of the word allowance.

The Living Out Allowance is no longer in existence. It was abolished in 2012.

And I stand by my opinion that doctors should start at a higher salary than teachers.

31-03-2016 04:50PM

maudgonner wrote: »

In year 2 their wage goes up to 28,302. Year 3 it's 29,834. So they'd only have to jump for 2 years before they're earning very close to the average industrial wage.

How many people must be getting paid less than that in order for the average to be so low?

(And yet, I still think that the starting wage for Gardaí should be higher)

There is a stop on increments in AGS, anyone coming out of templemore will noit be going up in salary for the first three years of service.

Anita Blow · 31-03-2016 05:01PM

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Living out allowance was what I was referring to which would bring you above 40k in your second year.

Perhaps I should have been more specific in my references.
The first year is brutally paid however you are over 40k very quickly granted you still have to survive on 30k for a year. It takes teachers years to earn 31k never mind 40k which a doctor can earn after a year.

The payscale is what this whole debate is surrounding. You got your knickers in a knot because someone had the audacity to claim teachers and doctors should be paid similarly at the start of their careers. Obviously doctors will earn substantially more later on and I have no issue with this and if you want to attract highly intelligent people into teaching you need a carrot of some sort as the job provides little in the way of promotion.

I will be mindful of my use of the word allowance.

The living out allowance hasn't been in existence for 4 years now. A doctor will be working 3 years before they earn >40k base salary. Out of that they have to fund insurance, continuing professional development, exams, state registration fees and now 30-40% of the doctors are graduate-entry, they have to pay a near-mortgage level repayments for college loans

Mardy Bum · 31-03-2016 05:01PM

doireannod wrote: »

The Living Out Allowance is no longer in existence. It was abolished in 2012.

And I stand by my opinion that doctors should start at a higher salary than teachers.

FYI it takes a teacher about 9 years of full time work to get what a doctor does after two so your opinion is also that of the government's.

NQT teachers and doctors should both have higher salaries. Doctors do deserve better pay overall and unsurprisingly earn multitudes of what teachers earn. (Just take a look at the tax defaulters list every year)

Do you place much value on teachers? As a doctor you are obviously naturally bright and a good independent learner who may not have needed a huge amount of help. However that cohort of student makes up about 2% of the student body. It can be hard to understand what a teacher does when one has had quite a limited perspective.

Doctors have a far higher earning potential than teachers. You do not need a PhD in Labour Economics to know the difficulties of attracting highly motivated and skilled people to a sector that has little or no opportunities of promotion.

Take a look at the English education system if you want to a see a system that has failed everyone involved. It does not value teaching at all unless you are in an independent private school.

There is a slight whiff of profession snobbery to some of your posts which makes me think you place little value on a teacher which is understandable at this stage of your career.

doireannod · 31-03-2016 05:19PM

Mardy Bum wrote: »

FYI it takes a teacher about 9 years of full time work to get what a doctor does after two so your opinion is also that of the government's.

NQT teachers and doctors should both have higher salaries. Doctors do deserve better pay overall and unsurprisingly earn multitudes of what teachers earn. (Just take a look at the tax defaulters list every year)

Do you place much value on teachers? As a doctor you are obviously naturally bright and a good independent learner who may not have needed a huge amount of help. However that cohort of student makes up about 2% of the student body. It can be hard to understand what a teacher does when one has had quite a limited perspective.

Doctors have a far higher earning potential than teachers. You do not need a PhD in Labour Economics to know the difficulties of attracting highly motivated and skilled people to a sector that has little or no opportunities of promotion.

Take a look at the English education system if you want to a see a system that has failed everyone involved. It does not value teaching at all unless you are in an independent private school.

There is a slight whiff of profession snobbery to some of your posts which makes me think you place little value on a teacher which is understandable at this stage of your career.

My mother was a primary teacher for over 30 years. I value teachers but in terms of responsibility I don't see the jobs as comparible. My own mother often says that she didn't think it was possible to put in the hours and deal with the level of stress that we do. She says that she didn't think it was possible to study as much as we do.

She has also said that no matter what the teacher does, the child's ability is the child's ability. I've had wildly incompetent teachers. Didn't go to school for the last month of primary school because the teacher was useless. And didn't go to secondary school for the last 2 months. Worked away myself. Incompetent teachers were just a nuisance. But an incompetent doctor is a serious problem that could have long lasting/life changing ramifications.

This is just my experience. I'm sure plenty of people will have stories about life changing and wonderful teachers. That wasn't my experience of teachers.

And in terms of the workload, my mom was home for 3pm everyday. Her work life balance was incomparably different to mine.

Don't think I'm a professional snob. I don't think being a doctor is the be all and end all. There are a lot of other jobs that I respect. But should a doctor earn the same as a teacher? Not in my opinion.

I don't think I should earn more. My salary is fair enough and I'm not motivated by money. But I also don't think that teachers should earn more.

Mardy Bum · 31-03-2016 05:41PM

doireannod wrote: »

My mother was a primary teacher for over 30 years. I value teachers but in terms of responsibility I don't see the jobs as comparible. My own mother often says that she didn't think it was possible to put in the hours and deal with the level of stress that we do. She says that she didn't think it was possible to study as much as we do.

She has also said that no matter what the teacher does, the child's ability is the child's ability. I've had wildly incompetent teachers. Didn't go to school for the last month of primary school because the teacher was useless. And didn't go to secondary school for the last 2 months. Worked away myself. Incompetent teachers were just a nuisance. But an incompetent doctor is a serious problem that could have long lasting/life changing ramifications.

This is just my experience. I'm sure plenty of people will have stories about life changing and wonderful teachers. That wasn't my experience of teachers.

And in terms of the workload, my mom was home for 3pm everyday. Her work life balance was incomparably different to mine.

Don't think I'm a professional snob. I don't think being a doctor is the be all and end all. There are a lot of other jobs that I respect. But should a doctor earn the same as a teacher? Not in my opinion.

I don't think I should earn more. My salary is fair enough and I'm not motivated by money. But I also don't think that teachers should earn more.

Just a little tidbit teaching has changed massively in the last few years and I agree it was a much easier number in years gone by. That is why most older teachers jumped ship early.

I think your experiences have coloured your opinion negatively.

It is easy to say one is not motivated by money when one is in a career which pays extremely well as one progresses.

esforum · 31-03-2016 05:53PM

notjustsweet wrote: »

I'm not going to go into details on a public forum but it should be sufficient to say my ex and best friend are both guards and I'm well aware of what the allowances add up to.

While officially they "can" be fired for incompetence it's a very rare event and generally only happens if they do something that draws public scrutiny.

So in other words, you cant back up your arguement at all. Is it sufficient that I dont rely on third hand gueses about my mates but instead look at my own wage slip every week and month and that actually Gardai can be fired for offences that the private sector not only cant but could sue over? You cant be sacked for going into arrears on your mortgage or having a financial judgement such as, oh lets say not paying property tax. I can.

The allowances, lets just air these nice and open. these are the allowances I qualify for: Rent of 79 per week (abolished for new recruits), uniform and boot of 5 per week (taxable). Thats it in my weekly cheque. Monthly= (assuming you work standard shifts of the 'regular') night allowance (6pm to 8pm), night allowance (8pm to 8am), Saturday allowance, Sunday allowance. Boom, thats it. I cant remember exactly what each is worth as they are % of your salary but roughly speaking its 160 euro for a Sunday, 14 euro for a Saturday. Nights works out at about 100 a month in total but it depends on the roster cycle. You MAY qualify for public holiday as well if you work one like Christmas, Paddys, etc. A rough estimate, rough mind you would be that the standard allowaces probable net in the region of under 10 grand per annum for me. thats me, I have 15 years service. Those lower wouldnt get that and the new lads without the rent allowance wouldnt even see 5 thousand extra per annum.

Garda wages have always been bumped by overtime, always and theres no way you can claim that someone is overpaid because they make good money via a shed load of overtime (some of which will be mandatory). I cant go into the same detail for Nurses and teachers, I dont perform either job. Prison officers would be similar but rates would vary.

PARlance wrote: »

You have to be spectacular in your incompetence to get fired from the Public Service. You basically need to break a serious law. I have many friends in the Public Service and this is probably their biggest annoyance, people aren't accountable, and it's not fair on those that put in the effort.

This thread is based on the Irish Public Service. This website is Irish. A pathetic attempt by you to wriggle out of a point.

As for the 9 other questions you managed to ask in one post, I'm sorry but I don't have time for that.

Well again, I am actually a Garda and no, you dont have to break a serious law. Any criminal conviction can result in dismissal, drink driving will result in dismissal, having a financial judgement against you (a civil judgement) is grounds for dismissal. Any gross breach of discipline is grounds for instant dismissal and please note that gross negligence is the requirement in all sectors. You cant be sacked for a minor event, public or private. Thankfully so because lets be honest, we all make mistakes.

I wont weasel from anything, Apple, Dell and the big companies in Ireland are foreign owned. You can exlude them by stating 'Irish only' but we both know that would be a cop out. Even at that, how much is the boss of Dell Ireland on? More or less than my boss?

But then, if you are going to ignore questions that dont suit your agenda, I guess the debate is over.

njs030 · 31-03-2016 06:03PM

esforum wrote: »

So in other words, you cant back up your arguement at all. Is it sufficient that I dont rely on third hand gueses about my mates but instead look at my own wage slip every week and month?

Well again, I am actually a Garda and no, you dont have to break a serious law. Any criminal conviction will result in dismissal, drink driving will result in dismissal, having a financial judgement against you (a civil judgement) is grounds for dismissal. Any gross breach of discipline is grounds for instant dismissal and please note that gross negligence is the requirement in all sectors. You cant be sacked for a minor event, public or private.

I wont weasel from anything, Apple, Dell and the big companies in Ireland are foreign owned. You can exlude them by stating 'Irish only' but we both know that would be a cop out. Even at that, how much is the boss of Dell Ireland on? More or less than my boss?

But then, if you are going to ignore questions that dont suit your agenda, I guess the debate is over.

As you say you're a guard I'm sure you would prefer me not to discuss details of your pay? I didn't say I guessed, I saw my exs payslip multiple times.

esforum · 31-03-2016 06:09PM

doireannod wrote: »

Didn't go to school for the last month of primary school because the teacher was useless. And didn't go to secondary school for the last 2 months.

That wouldnt be that rare coming upto the leaving, plenty of students opt to stay at home and self study. Its not a reflection on the teacher.

I wouldnt agree either that the chlds ability is the childs ability, a useless teacher compared to a good teacher will be witnesses in the overall grades of their students. Some teachers will leave poor kids behind, others will drag them along and so on.

Im not getting into who earns what, doctors should be paid well. I said it at the start of the thread but instead of looking at your mothers case and being negative, why not aspire for all workers to enjoy a good work / life balance?

doireannod · 31-03-2016 06:13PM

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Just a little tidbit teaching has changed massively in the last few years and I agree it was a much easier number in years gone by. That is why most older teachers jumped ship early.

I think your experiences have coloured your opinion negatively.

It is easy to say one is not motivated by money when one is in a career which pays extremely well as one progresses.

Yeah I don't disagree with anything you've said there.

Teaching probably has changed a lot. I'm astounded at how some children with very specialised and specific needs are kept in mainstream schools now. It's excellent. Can't be easy for the teachers.

I do contest that I'm a professional snob though. I respect anyone that does their job well. Teachers included.

doireannod · 31-03-2016 06:15PM

esforum wrote: »

That wouldnt be that rare coming upto the leaving, plenty of students opt to stay at home and self study. Its not a reflection on the teacher.

I wouldnt agree either that the chlds ability is the childs ability, a useless teacher compared to a good teacher will be witnesses in the overall grades of their students. Some teachers will leave poor kids behind, others will drag them along and so on.

Im not getting into who earns what, doctors should be paid well. I said it at the start of the thread but instead of looking at your mothers case and being negative, why not aspire for all workers to enjoy a good work / life balance?

That's exactly my view on it. I aspire to have a good work life balance. And admire those who do.

esforum · 31-03-2016 06:15PM

notjustsweet wrote: »

As you say you're a guard I'm sure you would prefer me not to discuss details of your pay? I didn't say I guessed, I saw my exs payslip multiple times.

I couldnt give a ****e, its public record what we get and besides, you dont see my pay, you saw a Guards pay way back when. I am curious thogh, do your mates know you have such an issue with their earnings?

When all is said and done and I have to repeat myself here, we all knew teachers dont work holidays, we all know doctors earn good money, we all look at the options and made the choices we made. Dont drag down, aspire up or go and actually join the job / industry thats apparantly better paid but underworked and easier than the one you are doing now.

"I am going to join the Gardai so I can be rich" continued to be a statement uttered by absolutely no person ever

31-03-2016 06:17PM

notjustsweet wrote: »

As you say you're a guard I'm sure you would prefer me not to discuss details of your pay? I didn't say I guessed, I saw my exs payslip multiple times.

Maybe your ex was in a specialist area?
Maybe he worked a huge amount of overtime?
Because no guard qualifies for ' lots of allowances ' specialist roles qualify for specialist allowances.
Noit all gardai can claim PSV allowance, underwater allowance, instructors allowance etc etc.
A uniform & boot allowance of approx 5 or so euro a week is hardly huge ( I don't receive it, so not sure of exact amounts )

31-03-2016 06:23PM

Just a point I feel has been missed throughout this thread.
A huge amount of allowances in AGS, and I'm going to assume other public service jobs, were brought in years ago by the government of the day, in lieu of a wage hike.

Basically, it was the governments way of paying more, without raising wages, thus avoiding the rest of the country complaining. Now whether that was right or wrong I don't know, but it has lead to confusion over the years regarding public service pay.
Maybe it would be better to go back to salaries, and lose the allowances.
Of course, all public servants salaries would then rise.

njs030 · 31-03-2016 06:27PM

esforum wrote: »

I couldnt give a ****e, its public record what we get and besides, you dont see my pay, you saw a Guards pay way back when. I am curious thogh, do your mates know you have such an issue with their earnings?

When all is said and done and I have to repeat myself here, we all knew teachers dont work holidays, we all know doctors earn good money, we all look at the options and made the choices we made. Dont drag down, aspire up or go and actually join the job / industry thats apparantly better paid but underworked and easier than the one you are doing now.

"I am going to join the Gardai so I can be rich" continued to be a statement uttered by absolutely no person ever

Way back when?? That's quite a jump considering I didn't give a set of dates.

I don't have any issue with their pay but I do have an issue with the "poor badly paid us" carry on when they only talk about weekly pay and ignore all the extras in the big cheque and the massive pay off at the end.
And yes they are well aware of my opinion.

PARlance · 31-03-2016 07:08PM

esforum wrote: »

Well again, I am actually a Garda and no, you dont have to break a serious law. Any criminal conviction can result in dismissal, drink driving will result in dismissal, having a financial judgement against you (a civil judgement) is grounds for dismissal. Any gross breach of discipline is grounds for instant dismissal and please note that gross negligence is the requirement in all sectors. You cant be sacked for a minor event, public or private. Thankfully so because lets be honest, we all make mistakes.

I wont weasel from anything, Apple, Dell and the big companies in Ireland are foreign owned. You can exlude them by stating 'Irish only' but we both know that would be a cop out. Even at that, how much is the boss of Dell Ireland on? More or less than my boss?

But then, if you are going to ignore questions that dont suit your agenda, I guess the debate is over.

I'm happy to debate anything but I'm not here to answer a string of your questions. That isn't a debate. Your day job might have conditioned you to expect answers but I won't be answering 10 questions posed in a single post.

My brother in law and best friend are members. I spend a lot of time with them socialising etc. I'll stand by my point that you won't get fired for incompetance.
I did say that you basically needed to break a serious law to get fired... you argued this point by listing what I consider serious breaches of the law. A financial judgement is serious because breach for a Garda as they can't be desperate for money, corruptible. And we both know the rare cases of people leaving the force from that are usually gambling addicts.

Going back to my previous points, the vast majority of CEOs / owners of companies in Ireland are SME's. Dell, Facebook etc only make up a fraction of companies on this Island. Most company owners will have, at one stage or another, taken great financial risks to succeed. They will have had PG's against their houses etc. If they do succeed, then fair play to them. They provide employment and help the country out in doing so. If you fail as a sole trader, you can't even draw the dole.

So you can keep mentioning the CEO of Dell but that ain't the embodiment of the Private Sector.

Yes you have the potential to earn more in the private sector but you also can earn the minimum wage or be out of a job regularly. Your earnings are, to a certain degree, capped in the Public but there are many other benefits. Far more job security, much better pensions etc.

If you want to earn as much as the CEO of Dell then there's nothing stopping you. Why don't you leave the force and go private?

Garda, nurses, teachers and doctor's pay

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