Row with in-laws

Do ye ever do anything nice for the MIL for all the free childminding?

Op the issue here is not your or your wife its them, your father in law has an anger management problem which impacts on your MIL which then impacts on your wife. You've already said that another sibling doesn't get on with the dad, avoids staying in the house as it will lead to rows, so its obvious your father in law is somebody who likes being the centre of attention, causing rows and getting his own way. You and your wife stood up to them and they didn't like it.
You and your wife both seem to have good relationship where decisions around your own family unit are agreed on and thats the most important thing here. What your in laws think of you is not important and if they don't like you or find fault with anything you do then you will never please them.

I think you both should look at alternative baby sitting arrangements, the one thing I would worry about is them giving off negative vibes about ye as couple to your daughter, you don't want them bad mouthing you and your wife in front of her. As long as you, your wife and daughter are happy thats all that matters don't waste any more mental energy on them.

elvis83 wrote: »

And like I've said, her father has a serious rage problem, which doesn't help. He picks fights with people, I've seen him do it to every one of his family members.

He seems to have a problem with you because you spoke out against him. And in his head that is verboten. You're not dancing to his tune essentially. It seems like the family members he has been picking fights with are placating this behavior. You quite rightly refused to be another yes man and this has caused him to resent it. The text was his opportunity to have a go at you, he saw his chance and sent the text.

The next time you speak with him just politely tell him to not send anymore texts of that nature to you. That your his son in law and anything he has to say to you, he can say it to your face. You said he recoiled at hearing the real reason you were away. He owes you a full apology.

That's tricky about the house but if I were you I'd be grateful this had happened before you bought a house beside them. Especially if they are giving you a discount and you would feel indebted.

elvis83 wrote: »

They do. In fact, my wife had planned on using her mum tomorrow to look after the wee one. I'm not too keen on that, but I think it's our only option at the minute.

I can't imagine it causing resentment, but you could be right. I suggested perhaps looking at some other child-minder, but my wife thinks that's too far, that there would be no coming back from a row like that.

Devils advocate here..

It can very much create resentment. Remember these people have done their child rearing. Or at least thought they had. Looking after your kids is not the same as a weekly grandparent's trip to see their grandkids.. it becomes a job. An expectation that they feel they can't refuse. It's possible that they feel it is taking from their time together. And then they see you off playing music for the weekend..

What do you guys do to recognize that they are providing childcare for you?

The thing with childcare is that you become indebted to them for it. This gives them perceived rights to involve themselves in your life, in the decisions you and your wife make for your family.

They have obviously got some 'opinion' of you, from somewhere. It's unfounded, and I think that part of the reason is that if your FIL is a controlling sort, then they will likely have strong ideas of what kind of man they wanted their daughter to settle down with. And its not a musician sort they had in mind - no offence to you whatsoever.

Then the dynamics change when you have a baby - in loads of little ways - when you become a parent yourself, you see what your parents did and didn't do through fresh eyes. The awesome stuff they did, the mistakes they made. Your relationship changes too, becoming your own brand new family does that, you have your own views on rearing the baby so in lots of little ways the best practice from the time your MIL reared a baby has changed. She may feel out of her depth with new-fangled practices us young parents do. We assume that our mothers deftly step in but sometimes childminding can make them realise how exhausting it actually is.

I know your wife is reading this, so I'll phrase this as nicely as I can: She is the gateway to resolving this. That means no more going over to theirs with a moody head on her that they can deliberately misinterpret to be caused by you. Being careful about what details of your lives that she gives them. It means being firm with both her parents and shutting down any criticism of her husband the moment that they attempt to give out about you. It doesn't have to be a big row, it should be her calmly responding that she is not interested in hearing their opinion of her husband - she loves you and you have her full support with your gigs. If they persist, she gets up and leaves. They will soon figure out that their opinions are unwanted.

Now the baby is a year old, and maybe a bit down the line once the dust has settled, it might be well worth mixing in a bit of creche part time. Spin it that toddlers need socialisation -they honestly thrive playing with other babies. I see the difference between my child and my neighbours who had hers minded alone. This gives MIL a break too.

I'm not sure that confrontation is a good thing. Things said get remembered forever. Far better to work towards withdrawing gradually from being indebted to them while keeping it all cordial.

Take some time to think about moving in next door. It's all very well for your wife to want to do that, she's their daughter so its far easier for her but she is putting you in a very difficult position wanting her parents so involved. So she needs to have a good think about her boundaries with her parents, and how they impact on her relationship, her husbands mental health, and if she really wants to potentially cause damage to her family this way. My partner finds my mum a bit of a chore. I obviously love her to bits, and she's not the kind to find fault with him, but I'd never suggest moving beside her (also a beautiful area) because this would be difficult for him. Likewise, when his mother begins to be critical of me, he also firmly puts her back in her box, to the extent that now she doesn't bother at all because she now knows it falls on deaf ears. He's established the boundaries and now we get on fairly well. And we continue to make decisions as a family that the inlaws would disapprove of I'm sure, but we've gotten gradually to the point where they know to keep their opinion to themselves and we know what details to share with them.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I think this has a lot to do with your problem. They feel they have a right to interfere in your marriage because of thus dependency. Source alternative childcare and keep them at bay or forever have to put up with interference.

And this conviction that you owe them will only get worse if you buy that house from them at a discounted price.

I've read this thread through and OP you sound like quite a reasonable person. I know you've said that there are a few other factors at play here too, but it sounds to me like you had a bit of a row with the FIL a few months (a year?) ago, and quite possibly, he's held it against you all that time. Particularly if he's had form with anger issues in the past. I don't actually think the childminding thing is the problem at all.

You could go about this two ways. You could iron it out with them. Or - you could let it die, but now is the "fresh start" point. For what it's worth btw, I'm the mother of a 21 month old girl and myself and my husband live about 10 mins from my folks and 30mins from his, and he has no brothers or sisters. This is a minefield we've approached a few times in the last few years, particularly since our baby arrived.

If you try to iron it out, you could sort it out - or you could end up making it worse. My personal feeling is that you may end up making it worse, simply due to the personalities involved. Leopards don't change their spots and all that, and as much as it might seem obvious to you and me that confronting the situation is best, sometimes a personality like your FIL will just not allow the thing to be resolved. So for the peaceful relationships of all involved the only way to go may be to just leave it.Given the past history with the brother, it might be the best way - considering the wider relationships, shall we say, rather than just yourselves and the in-laws. However, that's just my 2c and you and your wife will know better whether it is something that could be ironed out.

The other way of letting it lie - what I mean is that you don't bring this up again, but that the regime change starts now . The house situation is unfortunate - is there anything you can do about that? However the childminding situation - Neyite is right, and I can see from my own experience, kids do need more socialisation as they get a bit bigger. Your little one is starting to get to the age where is would be great for her to see other kids during the week, rather than just grandparents. As I said, we have one (also a first grandchild) and I was adamant that grandparents are for emergencies only. Our LO is with a childminder during the week, and there are a couple of other kids there too. It gives her the social time, brings other people into her life, and honestly, lets the grandparents be grandparents. We also felt personally that it removed any conflict that could arise in the future around these things, and I wanted to have someone that I could have a "business" relationship with, rather than in-laws who I mightn't always agree with on what they were doing with my daughter. So far, it's worked out well.Further more, it means that if we want to go out for dinner or something at weekends I don't feel so bad asking the grandparents to mind her, which I would if they had her all week. Since your MIL wants to do the childminding, I'd suggest you frame it the way Neyite has said, and maybe start by suggesting she do 2/3 days a week as an alternative, and take it from there. The other side of this is that it's all very well for her to mind the child now at this age, but what happens 2/3/4 years down the line as she and the baby get older and potentially more kids follow? Our little one is MAJOR effort to mind all day (I'm heavily pregnant too) and you need a lot of energy for her. An older person could, I think, find it hard going as time goes on.

The other thing is that your wife shuts down any comments or conversation about you or your family, or you as a family unit. That has to be the approach. You pretty much have to draw big black lines around you guys as boundaries, particularly if you end up living very close to them. They don't need to know every aspect of your lives and they don't need to be involved in every aspect of your lives. We do something similar, there is a bit of a need-to-know aspect to all these things. I know we make decisions too that neither set of parents approves of (at varying times), but - tough ****, is my response! It's tough at the start, but as the kids get a bit bigger (even at 21 months it's beginning to show in our house), your time begins to fill with other things than just visiting grandparents - you visit other friends with kids, you start going out and about during the day to playgrounds etc (because being stuck in a house with a toddler would drive you spare), and you may even get a couple of afternoon meals out with them - that kind of thing. So it does become a bit easier in some ways because you're simply not around to see them all the time. We aim to see grandparents at least every 2 weeks, if not every week, as we both work full-time.

Sorry, I'm rambling on a bit here, but I guess what I'm saying is that a bit of distance between yourselves and the in-laws is no harm, and start thinking longer-term about childminding etc, rather than just the here and now. Neyite makes some excellent suggestions that would be good to take on board. And OP, it's not a total mess. It's not YOUR mess. It's your FIL's issue and to be honest, I don't think there's much you can do about except protect yourself and your family, if that makes sense. You and your wife are on the same page which is great, and supporting each other, and that makes a huge difference.

Best of luck.

Maybe your in laws suspected, as you say you also did, that their own daughter was depressed? Maybe, just maybe, that was what was behind all of this?
Also, by providing free childcare, their aim would have been to ease your financial burden& to facilitate you spending more time together as a family unit? So then for you to go away gigging for a few nights on the proviso of earning more money, must have made them question - well, how would they manage financially if they had to pay for childcare, if they plan on having another kid or 2?
Just throwing out a few other possibilities OP.
You don't need to take out your shotgun, just disengage from all the- really fairly unnecessary- drama. No one has terminal cancer, you have a healthy child, a loving marriage. Focus on the positives & on creating happy times& memories. Life is too short for nit-picking& point-scoring& arguing over who said what when.

Are you a full time musician? As in, is that your job, or do they see you playing gigs as a hobby that you 'go off for the weekend to do', where you might be thrown a few quid? I think the answer to that might affect how they feel about you going away for a weekend.

To try to look at it from another point of view, they're facilitating you with child care, you aren't paying for childcare, you're going to get a house at a reduced price - and they're doing this to help you out financially, but yet their daughter is down when you're away for a weekend. I think they've dealt with it dreadfully, but tbh I'd question what was going on if I were them.

I'm not trying to put you or your wife down in any way, but if you strictly look from the outside in, with no other reasons to go on, your wife's parents are giving a lot financially, and a lot physically (giving up their time to be your childcare providers). And what do they see: they see you disappearing for a weekend, and your wife being upset. Being honest, I'm not surprised that they flipped out. They're defending their daughter, albeit in a cack handed way. But I really don't think they're the demons you make them out to be.

OP, they're doing a huge huge amount for you & their daughter. I can actually see why they're concerned for your daughter. But it sounds like they - and your wife - can't seem to communicate in any way other than reacting to things. Can they not talk, as a family?

I genuinely think that the childcare stuff is the root of your problem. I think they see it as taking advantage, especially when you go away playing music. Like I said, if that's your full time job, fair enough; but if you go away for a weekend playing music and come back with only a few quid, tbh I cldnt blame them for being annoyed, as they are saving you so much financially.