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Modern society and porn

24567

Comments

  • #32
    donegaLroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭donegaLroad


    seamus wrote: »
    This all sounds very well except when you consider that despite the wider availability of "immoral" materials and snuff videos, respect for human life and social and political morality has never been better.

    Far from desensitising people, what it does is disinhibit them - these topics are no longer taboo. Which means that society as a whole is capable of discussing them openly and maturely and therefore being rational and ethical about them.

    I can't say I agree with this. There has been a large increase in violent crime, and a large rise in rape.. online dating has been blamed for the rise in rape in some countries.

    Online porn is blamed for the rise in child-on-child sexual attacks.

    Children are mimicking what they see on x-rated sites. X-rated material is very easily accessible online and children are tech savy, and have curious minds.

    If their introduction to sex is through x-rated online streaming video, then surely this is very unhealthy? Children are very impressionable and will see this as being normal behaviour because it is adults who are setting the example.

    How will this affect society in 10 - 20 years time?


  • #33
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    donegaLroad wrote: »
    I can't say I agree with this. There has been a large increase in violent crime, and a large rise in rape.. online dating has been blamed for the rise in rape in some countries.
    COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"]Citation Needed[/COLOR

    Here's the United States, for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#/media/File:Rapes_per_1000_people_1973-2003.jpg

    Across the western world, rape and violent crime has been on a decrease for manys a decade now.


  • #34
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38,989 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #35
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    jester77 wrote: »
    It depends on how you consume porn.

    If you have stashes of porn hidden in sub folders, you find yourself sneaking away for a quick one, you like to watch alone when no one else is around or you end up binge watching, then maybe you have a problem and should seek some help.

    Watching in moderation is ok. I'm more of a quality over quantity type of guy. I like my craft porn.

    I must have a problem so .......... I never considered w@nking a spectator sport!!


  • #36
    OU812
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,114 ✭✭✭OU812


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    I never considered w@nking a spectator sport!!

    Depends on who your partner is & what their tastes are...


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  • #37
    Eramen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Eramen


    RGDATA! wrote: »
    what did you read and what is the "true extent of the damage which can be done"? Not challenging you, just curious.


    Some damage:

    Porn and video game addiction leading to 'masculinity crisis', says Stanford psychologist

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/porn-and-video-game-addiction-are-leading-to-masculinity-crisis-says-stanford-prison-experiment-10238211.html

    Watching Pornography Damages Mens' Brains

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/10862915/Watching-pornography-damages-mens-brains.html

    Porn Causing Erectile Dysfunction in Young Men

    http://globalnews.ca/news/1232726/porn-causing-erectile-dysfunction-in-young-men/


    Some Reasons why you may want to go pron-free:

    Sexual Abstinence and Academic Achievement

    http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2005/10/teenage-sexual-abstinence-and-academic-achievement

    Semen Acts as an Anti-depressant

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2457-semen-acts-as-an-anti-depressant/


    Really.. there is a rake load of information out there, including legit studies and reports. Google is your friend.

    Men who think hardcore porn is beneficial/nothing wrong with it are just **** (literally). At best it's an anti-social behavior, at worst a crushing, depression-ridden, cycle of self-sabotage. Former wanker myself, so no judgements.


  • #38
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    beach_walker wrote: »
    That's bollox tbh. Nobodies arguing against proper sex education.
    They are though, really. It's like claiming that viewing porn will cause you to be a sexual deviant in the same way that playing Grand Theft Auto will turn you into a serial killer.

    In both cases, age-appropriateness and parental oversight are important factors in determining how the child/teenager/young adult deals with and is influenced by the things they see.

    If someone at 24 (or even 14) starts retreating into their basement to obsess over porn, the issue is not the availability of porn, but something else entirely.


  • #39
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    OU812 wrote: »
    Depends on who your partner is & what their tastes are...

    Well, I like to quietly go off and be alone when I'm having a sh1t, never even occurred to me to ask my wife if she'd like to observe ........ call me 'ol fashioned! :)


  • #40
    beach_walker
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 976 ✭✭✭beach_walker


    seamus wrote: »
    They are though, really. It's like claiming that viewing porn will cause you to be a sexual deviant...

    Well I haven't said anything of the sort, I'm more concerned with the mental health and societal implications of what porn does to re-wire the brain.


  • #41
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    If you find enjoying porn is effecting you/your life personally then the problem is you, not porn.


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  • #42
    etoughguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 344 ✭✭etoughguy


    In the name of research I intend to spend the next few days googling porn, ill report back with my findings


  • #43
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Eramen wrote: »
    Porn and video game addiction leading to 'masculinity crisis', says Stanford psychologist

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/porn-and-video-game-addiction-are-leading-to-masculinity-crisis-says-stanford-prison-experiment-10238211.html
    No real evidence or data in there. Do some reading on critiques of his book and basically he's decided that trends in male academic performance are indications of a problem, and then pinned the blame on computer games and porn. With no reason for doing so.
    Watching Pornography Damages Mens' Brains

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/10862915/Watching-pornography-damages-mens-brains.html
    “It's not clear, for example, whether watching porn leads to brain changes or whether people born with certain brain types watch more porn,” said Dr Simone Kühn.
    Porn Causing Erectile Dysfunction in Young Men

    http://globalnews.ca/news/1232726/porn-causing-erectile-dysfunction-in-young-men/
    There's no such thing as "PIED". There's not a single shred of actual evidence in this article.
    Sexual Abstinence and Academic Achievement
    http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2005/10/teenage-sexual-abstinence-and-academic-achievement
    A conservative (read: Christian) think-tank extolling the virtues of sexual abstinence. No thanks.
    Semen Acts as an Anti-depressant

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2457-semen-acts-as-an-anti-depressant/
    Did you even read this one?
    Really.. there is a rake load of information out there, including legit studies and reports. Google is your friend.
    So if there are a rake of them, why haven't you produced any of them?

    Totally open to evidence on this one. Just need to see some.


  • #44
    Lights On
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,752 ✭✭✭Lights On


    Eramen wrote: »
    Semen Acts as an Anti-depressant

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2457-semen-acts-as-an-anti-depressant/

    I must show this one to my girlfriend, might actually be able to get her to swallow now!


  • #45
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Eramen wrote: »
    By that logic is heroin only a problem for the junkies that use it?

    You see at some point these things become a wider social problem that affects everybody and the society at large.

    Just as drug-abuse *leads to* strain on the health service, homelessness, unemployment etc.. porn-addiction also has *knock on effects*.

    We need wider-range thinking on this issue. You're locking this one in a box and entirely missing the point.

    It is possible to use heroin without it effecting your whole life, rare, but possible .......... the same with alcohol, gambling etc.

    Why should the rest of society be deprived of something pleasurable (alcohol/porn/drugs/gambling) because weaker individuals can't handle it?


  • #46
    cowboyBuilder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,419 ✭✭✭cowboyBuilder


    Eramen wrote: »
    Some damage:

    Porn and video game addiction leading to 'masculinity crisis', says Stanford psychologist

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/porn-and-video-game-addiction-are-leading-to-masculinity-crisis-says-stanford-prison-experiment-10238211.html

    Watching Pornography Damages Mens' Brains

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/10862915/Watching-pornography-damages-mens-brains.html

    Porn Causing Erectile Dysfunction in Young Men

    http://globalnews.ca/news/1232726/porn-causing-erectile-dysfunction-in-young-men/


    Some Reasons why you may want to go pron-free:

    Sexual Abstinence and Academic Achievement

    http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2005/10/teenage-sexual-abstinence-and-academic-achievement

    Semen Acts as an Anti-depressant

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2457-semen-acts-as-an-anti-depressant/


    Really.. there is a rake load of information out there, including legit studies and reports. Google is your friend.

    Men who think hardcore porn is beneficial/nothing wrong with it are just **** (literally). At best it's an anti-social behavior, at worst a crushing, depression-ridden, cycle of self-sabotage. Former wanker myself, so no judgements.

    Nothing wrong with the odd Tom Hank tho ..

    Nothing better then occasionally (highlighting it so people don't jump on it saying im substituting it for real sex) - when the wife and kids are in bed, ingognito mode, porn hub, pants around the knees - pullin' the dolenz of myself.


  • #47
    bnt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,244 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    Talk of "moral standards" is bogus: historically, those who preach morals have been the first to violate those same morals. Remember Jimmy Swaggart, anyone? He got one of his ministry priests "defrocked" for going to a prostitute, so that priest had Swaggart followed ... you probably heard the rest already.
    :rolleyes:

    I'm not that keen on porn, but I appreciate having the freedom to decide that for myself as an adult, not have some "moral authoority" decide what is good or bad for me.

    Government resting upon the will and universal suffrage of the people has no anchorage except in the people's intelligence.

    — Grover Cleveland



  • #48
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,344 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    beach_walker wrote: »
    I did some reading a while ago about how porn can affect and change our brains. I knew offhand that it was bad but the true extent of the damage that can be done was a real eye-opener.

    I am not sure the damage is as extensive as you suggest. And I am not sure "damage" is even the correct word for it. There are many artificial methods of setting off the reward centres in the brain - or hyper stimulating reward centres (like you do when you consume refined sugars and drink coca cola and so forth) - and they all have effects. But labelling them "damage" is hyperbole a lot of the time.

    It is also strange how people scream "It changes the brain" as if that is a bad thing. And a lot of people swallow it thus too. They go "_Changing_ my brain? Ahhhh!!!".

    But everything changes your brain. Reading my words right now has changed your brain. The reaction to someone saying "Porn changes your brain" should be "Really - how and where - and to what degree - and how does this change differ or compare in type and quantity to comparable inputs such as - say - computer gaming or watching the latest james bond?"

    And I suspect you will find there is a _lot_ less substance in their answer to that than you expect.
    beach_walker wrote: »
    I think whatever your stance the growing availability and normalisation of it is something we need to talk about.

    While interesting to talk about there is no real utility to doing so in terms of having an effect on that change. Because it has happened - it is happening - and there is little anyone can do to change it now. Even if places like the UK do try to implement nationwide bans on internet porn for example - it is likely due to the nature of the internet to simply fail. It will - at most - do little more than remind current generations how Usenet works.

    So really the only thing worth talking about is what that change means and - if we identify anything bad in that change - what can be done to mediate those effects.

    But I am not seeing anything bad about it. It is just another pursuit some people engage in - and some minority of people get harmfully addicted to. So any conversation about the effect of its availability and normalisation can really only parallel conversations about - say - computer games, gambling, alcohol, drugs - and any other number of things that many engage in - but only a minority actually directly suffer from.


  • #49
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,344 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    valoren wrote: »
    When it comes (pardon the pun) time to have actual real sex they'll discover that the vast majority of women are not readily into getting messy facials, crave anal, happy to bring a friend(s), essentially all your male driven porno 'categories'.
    biko wrote: »
    I think the worst aspect of porn is how it forms young minds into thinking this is what boys/girls actually want/expect - facial, anal, no hair, gang, blah blah
    RobertKK wrote: »
    It could and probably does raise expectations of what is expected from someone, and most particularly for what some men expect women to do.

    I here this "expectations" point a lot but I have never seen it lent any substance with any study. How many people do we think actually do watch porn and come away thinking these things?

    The joke making the rounds at the moment is that porn does little more than give people unrealistic expectations as to how quickly plumbers respond to call outs.

    But seriously - have people grown up watching James bond and come away thinking that what hot women really go for are people who kill or assassinate for a living?

    I think people making the "expectations" argument are just under estimating the ability of the masses to differentiate between fantasy and reality.

    It is one of those arguments that sounds great on paper. It is so simply and it flows. They see people doing X - they will assume that is how X is done.

    But like many arguments that sound really good and straight forward on paper - when you stop to look at the real world to see if it applies - it does not really seem to show up.
    Eramen wrote: »
    Just as drug-abuse *leads to* strain on the health service, homelessness, unemployment etc.. porn-addiction also has *knock on effects*.

    We need wider-range thinking on this issue. You're locking this one in a box and entirely missing the point.

    But what _are_ those "knock on effects"? That is one of those cloak and dagger phrases that seems to say everything - but says nothing.

    The first step would be to identify _what_ the problems actually are.

    The second would be to quantify how wide spread the problems are.

    Then and only then can you really worry about tackling or treating those problems.

    I do not think anyone is denying that porn _can_ have bad effects on some minority of people. They are just denying that this is in any way exceptional in the wider world of things people _can_ get addicted to or reliant on in ways that are symptomatic of other underlying issues.

    Gambling - computer games - alcohol - reality TV - there are loads of things people get addicted to or reliant on or use as a substitute for treatment of unrelated conditions like depressions.

    Addiction _is_ a problem. Depression _is_ a problem. Porn in and of itself - is not.
    donegaLroad wrote: »
    I can't say I agree with this. There has been a large increase in violent crime, and a large rise in rape

    You would need to show figures on that one as I have seen figures showing the opposite and few showing what you are claiming.

    And the ones that _do_ show what you are claiming are badly presented because they are studies in areas where there has been large population growth. So the study will say something like "There was only 100 rapes per month in 1950 but 120 in 2000!!!" but they fail to note that while this is a 20% increase in rapes - there has been a 100% increase in population. So while the number of rapes has done up - rape has essentially gone _down_.

    Statistics are hell sometimes.

    Further it has been shown also that where rape rates have gone up it has often not been due to an increase in rape - but an increase in rape support and other initiatives that mean more rapes are _reported_. Not performed. Reported.

    I even recall a muslim online from one of the more - intense Islamic countries shall we say - quoting crime statistics at me with low levels of rape. He was doing so to suggest rape happens a lot less in Muslim countries under Islam and because of things like the Burka.

    What he did not mention was rapes happen _a lot_ but due to how rape victims are treated - stigmatised - and even killed in honor killings - the women there are not compelled in any way to report the crime.


  • #50
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,310 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    biko wrote: »
    Better sex ed I suppose.
    There's this. I find those who don't want kids having good sex ed (the church, religious people, etc) are also the same people who don't want porn to exist.


  • #51
    etoughguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 344 ✭✭etoughguy


    Is it just me or is anyone else in awe of the depth of knowledge some posters have on this topic?


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  • #52
    valoren
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,706 ✭✭✭valoren


    I would subscribe to the notion that when you transition from the point where plain old vanilla porn is no longer a turn on and you are searching for "midget bondage gangbang bukkake cosplay torture" is the only thing that turns you on then clearly you have a problem. How could anyone get aroused by a woman if they have been sexually thus conditioned?


  • #53
    cowboyBuilder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,419 ✭✭✭cowboyBuilder


    valoren wrote: »
    I would subscribe to the notion that when you transition from the point where plain old vanilla porn is no longer a turn on and you are searching for "midget bondage gangbang bukkake cosplay torture" is the only thing that turns you on then clearly you have a problem. How could anyone get aroused by a woman if they have been sexually thus conditioned?

    Exactly, keep it meat and 2 veg...


  • #54
    beach_walker
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 976 ✭✭✭beach_walker


    bnt wrote: »
    I'm not that keen on porn, but I appreciate having the freedom to decide that for myself as an adult, not have some "moral authoority" decide what is good or bad for me.

    *shrugs* Dunno who you're talking to, have people in the thread been calling for a ban?
    Deleted User wrote:
    While interesting to talk about there is no real utility to doing so in terms of having an effect on that change.

    I don't agree. Despite what some posters here seem to infer, the widespread assumption is that porn is normal and grand. I mean so far only two of us on this thread have said we don't watch it and I know if I were to say it to friends I'd get looks. It's definitely worth talking about so that each individual can decide for themselves if they should well give it a break and see if it makes a difference maybe.

    *I do appreciate I started this thread with F-all to link to, I'm just particularly bored at work.


  • #55
    conorhal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭conorhal


    cowboyBuilder wrote: »
    I'd be more worried about my kids seeing violence online ..

    How 'right on', sure most of the violence is a fake as a porno orgasam FFS :pac:


  • #56
    donegaLroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭donegaLroad


    seamus wrote: »
    COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"]Citation Needed[/COLOR

    Here's the United States, for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#/media/File:Rapes_per_1000_people_1973-2003.jpg

    Across the western world, rape and violent crime has been on a decrease for manys a decade now.

    here is the UK and Ireland (rape increase reports.. online dating etc)

    UK

    Ireland


  • #57
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38,989 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #58
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,344 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    beach_walker wrote: »
    I don't agree. Despite what some posters here seem to infer, the widespread assumption is that porn is normal and grand.

    Then despite the words "I don't agree" you have not actually disagreed with what I said. Because the majority of what I have said is in relation to how it would not be possible to reverse the widespread nature of porn. You simply are not going to achieve it - though I would love to hear your suggestions on methods to the contrary.

    You _might_ have more luck convincing people that it is not normal or "grand" but that is a strong _might_. I simply do not think that is a goal you could realistically attain. There is just far too many people ok with it - and even engaged in it - to make it a likely goal.

    So as I said - discussion on what to do _given_ the widespread and common availability of porn is likely to be a much more useful discussion than any discussion on reversing or influencing that state of affairs.
    beach_walker wrote: »
    I mean so far only two of us on this thread have said we don't watch it

    Statistically that is not surprising. You are conducting this "survey" on an internet forum. Which is statistically more likely to have internet porn users than - say - a cross section at the local library.

    Further negative self reporting is always statistically more likely than positive. That is to say people who do not do X are less likely to open a thread on X - let alone actually post on it saying "I do not do X" - that people who are engaged with X.

    So yea - nothing statistically odd there at all - so do not risk reading too much into that.
    beach_walker wrote: »
    It's definitely worth talking about so that each individual can decide for themselves if they should well give it a break and see if it makes a difference maybe.

    Sure - not disagreement from me on that - but you would need to do so with a bit more substance than you have so far in that you have thrown out words like "damage" and "changing the brain" without really qualifying or quantifying any of that.

    The likelihood of that influencing anyone at all - let alone to the point of stopping engaging with an enjoyable past time - is pretty low. More effort needed really!

    Plus you are far from unique on this. In the last year alone I think we had not one but three very long threads around the topic of "No Fap" - and anti porn anti masturbation movement.

    And the Pro-No-FAP posters offered about as little as you on the subject. It was just the usual personal anecdotes and testimonials of "I stopped - and now my life is better". And a few vague but equally uncited references to "braining changing" and "damage" that they never fleshed out beyond those phrases and buzz words.


  • #59
    Ruu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,622 ✭✭✭Ruu


    Caller, I think its important to establish what kiiiiiiiiiiiind of poooorn we are talking about. *heavy panting*


  • #60
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,344 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    valoren wrote: »
    I would subscribe to the notion that when you transition from the point where plain old vanilla porn is no longer a turn on and you are searching for "midget bondage gangbang bukkake cosplay torture" is the only thing that turns you on then clearly you have a problem. How could anyone get aroused by a woman if they have been sexually thus conditioned?

    Yet how many people actually are in that condition? And how would we even establish that number?

    One could - for example - cite the figures on consumption of some ethically dubious porn type (Such as the one you describe - or rape fantasy or whatever) - but that figure would be irrelevant as it would not show you _any_ quantity on people who are _only_ turned on by the selected type - or who are unable to be aroused in a "normal" sexual real life scenario.

    The suggestion you would be making is that someone conditioning themselves to get aroused in one scenario - say alone with their pants off sitting at a keyboard and monitor - are hampering their ability for arousal in other situations - such as say in a bed with the warmth of another human being against them.

    And I am not sure that follows at all. Especially given how no end of things seem to arouse people. The wind changing direction or sitting too long in a maths lecture gets some people aroused FFS.

    Constant or consistent arousal in scenario A is not an automatic assumption at being unable to attain it in some other scenario B.

    But sure - those people in whatever numbers they are - who can not get aroused in any situation except when a particular extreme kind of porn is presented - clearly do have a problem. What that has to do with this thread however - is unclear :)


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  • #61
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38,989 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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