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Deformed Dog Wins Crufts Award.

135

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Samaris wrote: »
    http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/pedigree-dogs-exposed/

    I saw this linked somewhere...I think facebook and started watching it. Well, I'm not usually one to watch vids, but I sat through this one from beginning to end. I can't say if it's absolutely the whole story or not, not knowing a great deal about dogs myself, but I found it very informative (and not a little horrifying).

    German Shepherds were mentioned and as I recall, the ones that are working dogs are deliberately not taken from this so-called best of breed ****e, they look much more like the original GSDs with a haunch that means the poor thing can walk and run properly instead of that awful bow-legged waddle.

    There's a good blurb under it too. This quote is particularly salient to the discussion;
    "People are carrying out breeding which would be first of all entirely illegal in humans and secondly is absolutely insane from the point of view of the health of the animals. In some breeds they are paying a terrible price in genetic disease." - Steve Jones, prof of genetics, University College London.

    Seen that allright years ago - presuming its the one with head size on some spaniel type. Mental stuff. I knew about a few of the things in it but it was only when you all of this stuff together that it dawned on me "this is bollocks".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Poor dog, owner is an utter tool.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,521 ✭✭✭✭mansize


    those dogs are more inbred than royalty


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    I've never understood people paying big money for pure bred pedigree dogs. Nothing more than fashion accessories.


    Some people like a particular breed of dog because of the breeds characteristics.

    I've had 2 basset hounds and I don't think I;d ever want another breed because bassets are such a friendly lovable breed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    Nodin wrote: »
    Seen that allright years ago - presuming its the one with head size on some spaniel type. Mental stuff. I knew about a few of the things in it but it was only when you all of this stuff together that it dawned on me "this is bollocks".
    That's right, and it's King Charles as failinis also mentioned. Horrifying to see, the brain is squashed into the skull and it can cause seizing.
    failinis wrote: »
    I will watch this later on.
    A friend of mine has had a few boxer dogs and all have had fits and seizures, apparently its just "accepted" in the breed? :confused:
    Another has a little King Charles Spaniel as far as I remember and the vet told them the skull was too small for the brain and caused a lot of problems.
    Pure breed dogs are fine - if they have a wide blood pool and try to breed out the illnesses. Not encourage.

    Yeah, both of those were covered too - I hate the idea of boxer dogs. They're just ..malformed. I don't like pugs either.

    Actually, I've gone right off quite a lot of dog breeds. Anything that's been bred to show levels just seems to be horribly unhealthy.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Can excessive breeding of dogs not be classed as animal abuse? Also how did that dog win? Is deformity not a negative?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,691 ✭✭✭failinis


    Samaris wrote: »
    That's right, and it's King Charles as failinis also mentioned. Horrifying to see, the brain is squashed into the skull and it can cause seizing.



    Yeah, both of those were covered too - I hate the idea of boxer dogs. They're just ..malformed. I don't like pugs either.

    Actually, I've gone right off quite a lot of dog breeds. Anything that's been bred to show levels just seems to be horribly unhealthy.

    Just watched that documentary - shocking stuff about how accepted breeding father/daughter and sister/brother and them saying "Oh it does not give bad features".
    I know basic basic genetics - and inbreeding is a sure fire way to throw fire on a inherited condition.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,925 ✭✭✭sonofenoch


    How is something like that 'genetically engineered' in a dog ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,605 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    sonofenoch wrote: »
    How is something like that 'genetically engineered' in a dog ?


    Animals with a sloping back are bred,their offspring are bred together or with other animals with a sloping back etc etc etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    sonofenoch wrote: »
    How is something like that 'genetically engineered' in a dog ?

    It's a long form of genetic engineering. Like domesticated crops like corn dogs breeds are essentially genetically modified organisms. Selective breeding in this case.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,801 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    jungleman wrote: »
    Not altogether true. When I was growing up, we had a pure bred golden retriever. We purchased her from a really reputable breeder who went to great lengths to make sure that the dogs were healthy and genetically sound. They kept records of the family histories of every single dog they bred.

    My parents didn't buy a golden retriever because she was a fashion accessory, they bought her because they're known for being great with children. She lived until she was nearly 11, which is a good age for a golden retriever, or any large dog. She was happy and healthy.

    In instances like Crufts, where that German Shepard was bred to have that deformed shape, that is wrong. Plainly wrong. It's worse than wrong, it's disgusting and cruel. However, there are a lot of breeders out there who love their dogs and are horrified at this type of stuff.

    People have their own reasons for buying pedigree dogs, but you can't just label them all as being for "fashion accessory" purposes.

    Attachment not found.

    Attachment not found.

    By buying a particular breed for xyz qualities you buy into the selective breeding process which unfortunately leads to ****ed up dogs which nature never intended to exist.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,745 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    By buying a particular breed for xyz qualities you buy into the selective breeding process which unfortunately leads to ****ed up dogs which nature never intended to exist.

    Nature never intended any dog breeds to exist.

    It's totally reasonable for someone to buy a specific breed of dog; you know how big it will get and how much exercise it will need and what its temperament is likely to be. Rescuing a dog is something of a crap-shoot, especially at the puppy stage.

    What people need to do when buying a dog is consider its size, whether they can meet its exercise needs, and if they are prepared for the amount of grooming needed, NOT to buy a dog just because it looks cute.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,801 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    kylith wrote: »
    Nature never intended any dog breeds to exist.

    It's totally reasonable for someone to buy a specific breed of dog; you know how big it will get and how much exercise it will need and what its temperament is likely to be. Rescuing a dog is something of a crap-shoot, especially at the puppy stage.

    What people need to do when buying a dog is consider its size, whether they can meet its exercise needs, and if they are prepared for the amount of grooming needed, NOT to buy a dog just because it looks cute.

    On paper, yes, but sorry, no one buys a staffie, husky, pug because they've calculated that this is the dog whose exercise requirements they can meet - they they buy them because of their cutsie squashed up face, or their crazy blue eyes, or the fact the dog has a "dangerous" reputation and therefore they look like a hardman walking around with them - ego boosting fashion accessories.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭Choc Chip


    On paper, yes, but sorry, no one buys a staffie, husky, pug because they've calculated that this is the dog whose exercise requirements they can meet - they they buy them because of their cutsie squashed up face, or their crazy blue eyes, or the fact the dog has a "dangerous" reputation and therefore they look like a hardman walking around with them - ego boosting fashion accessories.

    Well that's just not true. Many people don't consider these dogs exercise requirements, but many people do - what about people with huskies that do canicross? I've got a friend who's a vet and recommended a staffie to us 'cos they're such friendly dogs. Not everyone buys their dog based on their looks or "dangerous" reputation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,801 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Choc Chip wrote: »
    Well that's just not true. Many people don't consider these dogs exercise requirements, but many people do - what about people with huskies that do canicross? I've got a friend who's a vet and recommended a staffie to us 'cos they're such friendly dogs. Not everyone buys their dog based on their looks or "dangerous" reputation.
    Not all but I'd say most


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭Choc Chip


    kylith wrote: »
    Nature never intended any dog breeds to exist.

    It's totally reasonable for someone to buy a specific breed of dog; you know how big it will get and how much exercise it will need and what its temperament is likely to be. Rescuing a dog is something of a crap-shoot, especially at the puppy stage.

    I know what you're getting at, and I agree to an extent, but if people rescued adult dogs that had stayed in foster homes, they'd know exactly how big they were, how much exercise they needed and their temperment - lots of them have been tested with cats, kids etc. I think purebred pups from reputable breeders have their place, but adult rescue dogs would suit a lot of families far better than puppies and wouldn't be supporting irresponsible breeders.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    sonofenoch wrote: »
    How is something like that 'genetically engineered' in a dog ?

    TBH, You take some gobshites that view breeding shapes in animals the same way one would view doing so in a plant or the like and let them loose.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,133 ✭✭✭jonon9


    You be surprised the amount of people that cheer on crufts its sickening.
    Inbreeding is seriously getting out of hand just take a look at what is been bread in the US.

    http://3milliondogs.com/news/toadline-exotic-bullies-inbreeding-as-abuse

    https://poolhouse.s3.amazonaws.com/blog-assets-two/2015/06/toadlinecoverimage1.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,949 ✭✭✭Mesrine65


    jonon9 wrote: »
    You be surprised the amount of people that cheer on crufts its sickening.
    Inbreeding is seriously getting out of hand just take a look at what is been bread in the US.

    http://3milliondogs.com/news/toadline-exotic-bullies-inbreeding-as-abuse

    https://poolhouse.s3.amazonaws.com/blog-assets-two/2015/06/toadlinecoverimage1.jpg
    Jaysus, Josef Mengele or Dr. Moreau couldn't have created worse abominations...poor dogs :eek: :mad:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    That page must surely be satirical?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,448 ✭✭✭✭Cupcake_Crisis


    By buying a particular breed for xyz qualities you buy into the selective breeding process which unfortunately leads to ****ed up dogs which nature never intended to exist.

    Not necessarily. We specifically got Bichons because they're non shed and hypo allergenic. After months scouring rescues for one, we eventually had to go to a breeder.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    While I understand what people are getting at as regards adopting an adult dog from a rescue centre, there -are- reasons why pups are generally easier to home. Some of it is what you would expect, puppies are cute. But they can also be trained up to suit the family they're with.

    Some dogs from rescue centres were with decent people who trained them up and loved them. Maybe the owner died or moved abroad or something. Others were in rescue centres because they'd been badly treated and poorly trained. That can be a bit of an unknown quantity if you're rehoming them. Bad habits, maybe temperamental, might be intimidated by men (usually men for some reason), or dislike women (also seen or heard of quite a few dogs that will obey a male voice but totally disregard a female one) or could be snappy with children. I'm not saying this is a reason to never adopt an adult dog - god knows its not their fault the poor things. But it's part of the whole problem of why there are so many adult dogs that are hard to find a good owner for.

    Edit: Mind you, another major issue with purebreds is that they might have all the looks in the world, but their medical bills end up astronomical down to the breeding in of awful traits. Be it hip dysplasia, fits, epilepsy, inclination to get cancer, blindness, etcetera. Always best to research the type of dog if you are getting one that looks to be mostly or entirely A Specific Breed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,231 ✭✭✭Hercule Poirot


    Samaris wrote: »
    While I understand what people are getting at as regards adopting an adult dog from a rescue centre, there -are- reasons why pups are generally easier to home. Some of it is what you would expect, puppies are cute. But they can also be trained up to suit the family they're with.

    Some dogs from rescue centres were with decent people who trained them up and loved them. Maybe the owner died or moved abroad or something. Others were in rescue centres because they'd been badly treated and poorly trained. That can be a bit of an unknown quantity if you're rehoming them. Bad habits, maybe temperamental, might be intimidated by men (usually men for some reason), or dislike women (also seen or heard of quite a few dogs that will obey a male voice but totally disregard a female one) or could be snappy with children. I'm not saying this is a reason to never adopt an adult dog - god knows its not their fault the poor things. But it's part of the whole problem of why there are so many adult dogs that are hard to find a good owner for.

    Edit: Mind you, another major issue with purebreds is that they might have all the looks in the world, but their medical bills end up astronomical down to the breeding in of awful traits. Be it hip dysplasia, fits, epilepsy, inclination to get cancer, blindness, etcetera. Always best to research the type of dog if you are getting one that looks to be mostly or entirely A Specific Breed.

    While the bit regarding rescue animals being an unknown quantity is a fair comment I do know that in Australia an animal has to pass a behaviour test before they can be rehomed, don't know if it is done here though - the downside is the fate of the animal if it fails the test, which I'm sure you can guess. ..


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭Choc Chip


    I suppose the major issue is that if you decide that rescue's not for you and go to a breeder registered with the kennel club to try to set yourself up with the best puppy, you still can't be sure of a healthy animal with a solid temperment - the GSD at crufts proves that. If I was looking for a healthy, happy, confident GSD puppy I'd have no idea where to start looking.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    While the bit regarding rescue animals being an unknown quantity is a fair comment I do know that in Australia an animal has to pass a behaviour test before they can be rehomed, don't know if it is done here though - the downside is the fate of the animal if it fails the test, which I'm sure you can guess. ..

    Huh, that I was not aware of!

    And ...yeeah, there's definitely a downside to that method. Poor creatures.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    Ice Maiden wrote: »
    Yeah I do not understand the obsession with pugs. I do not think they are cute looking (the opposite) and they look so miserable all the time.

    I have a pug. We got him when his previous owners were giving him away. He is the most expressive, happy dog I've every known. He "talks" to us and has his own little ways of playing with us. I resent the idea that every single pug is some unhealthy unhappy extremely flat faced dog, while in reality many pugs like ours have a slight nose, and are physically fit. Ours could run and walk for hours. He is as fit as my little terrier.


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,496 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Choc Chip wrote: »
    Well that's just not true. Many people don't consider these dogs exercise requirements, but many people do - what about people with huskies that do canicross? I've got a friend who's a vet and recommended a staffie to us 'cos they're such friendly dogs. Not everyone buys their dog based on their looks or "dangerous" reputation.
    Are there dogs who have a reputation for being aloof and arrogant?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭Choc Chip


    Are there dogs who have a reputation for being aloof and arrogant?

    A cat? :p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,801 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Not necessarily. We specifically got Bichons because they're non shed and hypo allergenic. After months scouring rescues for one, we eventually had to go to a breeder.

    While that is a good example of an exception to the rule, most people buying staffies, bulldogs, huskys etc for asthetics and other associated factors


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,691 ✭✭✭failinis


    Are there dogs who have a reputation for being aloof and arrogant?

    There are a few known to be aloof around strangers (but very happy around it's family and friends) and of course there are exceptions to the rule:
    Akitas, Tibetan mastiffs, Rottweilers, Dobermans, Chows and Afghan hounds


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