Boundary Extension for City?

Squidvicious · 01-03-2016 7:26pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Well quite which shows that the border as it stands is a hindrance to development. I dunno what the current status of that plot is but someone needs to take it in hand.

What I meant was that both counties wish that site could dissappear. If only the problems of that site were limited to a split jurisdiction.

robtri · 02-03-2016 7:41pm

Max Powers wrote: »

there does seem to be a majority on the no side who don't really have an argument other than gaa colours,I don't want to bad mouth all our neighbours though and the kk chat page, there seems be a decent amount of people saying, that it makes sense.

well u seem to be the one hung up on it....

7upfree · 03-03-2016 7:01pm

Squidvicious wrote: »

Not true. Without rehashing my points, I argued against the change earlier on in this thread and I'm not even a big fan of hurling having been to two matches in my life. It's not fair to characterise the No argument as being all about hurling any more than it's fair to call the Yes side mere "Land Grabbers" out to enlarge the county.

Unfortunately it is. KK folk are obsessed with that game, for whatever reason.

7upfree · 03-03-2016 7:02pm

Squidvicious wrote: »

Within the Ferrybank housing estates, I'd say you're right that it's mainly Waterford but beyond that, I'd say it'd be far more black and amber.

Easy way to sort it. Hold a plebiscite and see who wants to remain in Kilkenny. And abide by the will of the people. But then again, this being Ireland.........

Roanmore · 05-03-2016 3:41pm

7upfree wrote: »

Easy way to sort it. Hold a plebiscite and see who wants to remain in Kilkenny. And abide by the will of the people. But then again, this being Ireland.........

That's a good idea. Is there any indication / poll indicating what the people affected by it are leaning?

gobo99 · 05-03-2016 6:05pm

Roanmore wrote: »

That's a good idea. Is there any indication / poll indicating what the people affected by it are leaning?

Anyone who wanted to could have made a submission to the Waterford Boundary Committee if they were for or against the proposed move.
Over 19,000 submissions were received against the extension of the boundary.
Less than 50 submissions were made in favour of the proposed extension to the boundary.
Obviously there isn't 19,000 people in the affected area, (I think its around 7,000), but it shows that there is a huge opposition to the boundary move.
The fact that less than 50 people supporting the proposed move bothered to submit their opinion shows that there is not any real hunger either side of the bridge for it to go ahead.

O Riain · 05-03-2016 6:42pm

gobo99 wrote: »

Anyone who wanted to could have made a submission to the Waterford Boundary Committee if they were for or against the proposed move.
Over 19,000 submissions were received against the extension of the boundary.
Less than 50 submissions were made in favour of the proposed extension to the boundary.
Obviously there isn't 19,000 people in the affected area, (I think its around 7,000), but it shows that there is a huge opposition to the boundary move.
The fact that less than 50 people supporting the proposed move bothered to submit their opinion shows that there is not any real hunger either side of the bridge for it to go ahead.

In fairness, its human nature to spend more effort being negative/to oppose something then it is to spend the time to write in something positive. This is a normal situation but we will have to see how it goes, I don't understand why they went out so far with the extension to be honest. Makes it seem like they wanted it to fail due to resistance....

Dunmoreroader · 05-03-2016 7:06pm

O Riain wrote: »

In fairness, its human nature to spend more effort being negative/to oppose something then it is to spend the time to write in something positive. This is a normal situation but we will have to see how it goes, I don't understand why they went out so far with the extension to be honest. Makes it seem like they wanted it to fail due to resistance....

The GAA in Kilkenny got every club to send submissions. The schools in Kilkenny were handing out forms to kids to bring home to their parents. It's insane. Paultown gets to decide the destiny of Ferrybank?

7upfree · 05-03-2016 8:12pm

O Riain wrote: »

In fairness, its human nature to spend more effort being negative/to oppose something then it is to spend the time to write in something positive. This is a normal situation but we will have to see how it goes, I don't understand why they went out so far with the extension to be honest. Makes it seem like they wanted it to fail due to resistance....

As I said already, hold a plebiscite and put it to bed once and for all. And let people of voting age decide. Not children. Remember, you are dealing with a mentality here. And it doesn't appear to be rational.

gobo99 · 05-03-2016 8:59pm

O Riain wrote: »

In fairness, its human nature to spend more effort being negative/to oppose something then it is to spend the time to write in something positive. This is a normal situation but we will have to see how it goes, I don't understand why they went out so far with the extension to be honest. Makes it seem like they wanted it to fail due to resistance....

That might account for some of the numbers but 19,000 v 50 odd is a huge gap.
It has been suggested by some on this thread that the area is full of Waterford people who are eager to be reunited with Waterford council. Mabey they couldn't be arsed filling in a survey. Or mabey just mabey there isnt thousands of Waterfordians living in Ferrybank, Mooncoin, Slieverue and Kilmacow. Id welcome a plebiscite if it were possible, it would be a eye opener for a some people.

Max Powers · 05-03-2016 9:12pm

gobo99 wrote: »

That might account for some of the numbers but 19,000 v 50 odd is a huge gap.
It has been suggested by some on this thread that the area is full of Waterford people who are eager to be reunited with Waterford council. Mabey they couldn't be arsed filling in a survey. Or mabey just mabey there isnt thousands of Waterfordians living in Ferrybank, Mooncoin, Slieverue and Kilmacow. Id welcome a plebiscite if it were possible, it would be a eye opener for a some people.

They circulated no letters that people could just sign there name and send it off, saw them myself being circulated in the canteen to lads who don't live in the area. I would say 99% of them say the same rubbish about kk culture, hurling etc...total ****e that anyone would half a brain would roll their eyes at.

gobo99 · 05-03-2016 9:22pm

Well iv gone through around 60 or 70 of the submissions and the only people banging on about hurling and county colours are a couple of waterford people on this thread.

kayaksurfbum · 05-03-2016 9:35pm

gobo99 wrote: »

Well iv gone through around 60 or 70 of the submissions and the only people banging on about hurling and county colours are a couple of waterford people on this thread.

Can you read the submissions on line?

gobo99 · 05-03-2016 9:39pm

kayaksurfbum wrote: »

Can you read the submissions on line?

You can...
http://www.waterfordboundaryreview.ie/currentsubmissions.html

padraig.od · 05-03-2016 9:46pm

If we are going to let the people of ferrybank decided what county they are going to be in could we make Dublin an option? It would be great for house prices

road_high · 06-03-2016 5:08pm

Max Powers wrote: »

They circulated no letters that people could just sign there name and send it off, saw them myself being circulated in the canteen to lads who don't live in the area. I would say 99% of them say the same rubbish about kk culture, hurling etc...total ****e that anyone would half a brain would roll their eyes at.

Well I'd imagine straight off it would be this kind of dismissive railroading attitude that would naturally get people's backs up and why there is such strong opposition in the first place.

7upfree · 07-03-2016 9:08pm

road_high wrote: »

Well I'd imagine straight off it would be this kind of dismissive railroading attitude that would naturally get people's backs up and why there is such strong opposition in the first place.

Because it's true??!!

AdMMM · 08-03-2016 9:09am

First one that I read from Bobby Aylward, FF TD, mentions GAA clubs being split into what I can only assume he means a "The Wind that Shakes the Barley" situation. The second one I opened mentions successful GAA clubs needing to change their colours. I haven't opened any more because that's enough stupidity for one day....

7upfree · 08-03-2016 6:56pm

AdMMM wrote: »

First one that I read from Bobby Aylward, FF TD, mentions GAA clubs being split into what I can only assume he means a "The Wind that Shakes the Barley" situation. The second one I opened mentions successful GAA clubs needing to change their colours. I haven't opened any more because that's enough stupidity for one day....

Going around in circles. For a game. Such utter stupidity.

hardybuck · 09-03-2016 10:30am

7upfree wrote: »

Going around in circles. For a game. Such utter stupidity.

I think that'd be his dream response. The GAA is more than a sport, it's the focal point of the community and promoter of Irish culture.

The correct response is that the current GAA structures would continue regardless. Ferrybank GAA play in Waterford when I understand that not all of their pitch is.

Jamie2k9 · 12-03-2016 12:38am

Decision now not due until May.

Dunmoreroader · 12-03-2016 1:00pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Decision now not due until May.

Quelle surprise!
Btw amazing submission to the boundary review from Stephanie Taheny, the town planning expert, re Ferrybank shopping centre. There's a feature on it in the N&S but it's worth reading in full on the boundary review website. It will make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up.
Corrupt, greedy or just stupidly duped by the developers - take your pick for the all but one Kilkenny County Councillors who voted this thru. Shame on you. The government were happy to spend hundreds of millions enquiring into Quarryvale; shouldn't Ferrybank shopping centre be investigated too?
I know there is a seperately thread dealing with this but it needs to be repeated over and over how rotten this decision was and how it shows that KCC shouldn't govern Ferrybank.

Dunmoreroader · 14-03-2016 4:48pm

Here's what I'm talking about;
http://www.waterfordboundaryreview.ie/submissions/online/Stephanie%20Taheny.pdf

Max Powers · 15-03-2016 9:37am

Excellent submission, probably better than the 19000 gaa crap sent in against the plan

Deise Vu · 15-03-2016 11:03am

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

Here's what I'm talking about;
http://www.waterfordboundaryreview.ie/submissions/online/Stephanie%20Taheny.pdf

That makes for incredibly depressing reading. You have to ask yourself, who is in charge and what is their agenda? The sheer size of the Ferrybank complex versus existing shopping facilities in Waterford and the invention of terms like 'Gateway Suburban Centre' is extraordinary.

It also helps answers the question that our non-hurling Kilkenny friend asks about what are the economic arguments for an extension: Firstly, you have two (or more) sets of council planners examining plans, sometimes because of joint jurisdiction such as the Árd RÍ site, and sometimes because, as with Ferrybank Shopping Centre, Kilkenny Council was acting in clear breach of the National Spatial Strategy and to the detriment of Waterford city centre. Secondly you have one set of planners in Kilkenny who clearly couldn't give a monkeys if Waterford City Centre, already struggling, is decimated entirely.

(On a side note: "Motor Showrooms" with stepped access!!!!! You've got to laugh at the developer and the Kilkenny planners trying to pull that one off, surely they could think of a better disguise than that?).

padraig.od · 15-03-2016 11:52am

Deise Vu wrote: »

That makes for incredibly depressing reading. You have to ask yourself, who is in charge and what is their agenda? The sheer size of the Ferrybank complex versus existing shopping facilities in Waterford and the invention of terms like 'Gateway Suburban Centre' is extraordinary.

It also helps answers the question that our non-hurling Kilkenny friend asks about what are the economic arguments for an extension: Firstly, you have two (or more) sets of council planners examining plans, sometimes because of joint jurisdiction such as the Árd RÍ site, and sometimes because, as with Ferrybank Shopping Centre, Kilkenny Council was acting in clear breach of the National Spatial Strategy and to the detriment of Waterford city centre. Secondly you have one set of planners in Kilkenny who clearly couldn't give a monkeys if Waterford City Centre, already struggling, is decimated entirely.

(On a side note: "Motor Showrooms" with stepped access!!!!! You've got to laugh at the developer and the Kilkenny planners trying to pull that one off, surely they could think of a better disguise than that?).

Did anyone ask An Bord Pleanála to look at FSC? Sorry don't know the full planning history of the shopping centre.

Deise Vu · 15-03-2016 12:22pm

padraig.od wrote: »

Did anyone ask An Bord Pleanála to look at FSC? Sorry don't know the full planning history of the shopping centre.

According to Stephanie Taheny's detailed submission (incidentally she is a former planner and wife of Kilkenny man Noel Frisby) BP rejected the first plans which had been approved by Kilkenny City Council at December 2004. Those plans were for 37,675 sq m and were rejected on the grounds of "its bulk, mass and scale, it's monolithic structure and internalised nature".

So naturally the developer came back with new plans and Kilkenny Council, in deference to BP's clear comments, duly authorised a 64,289 sq m development!!!! (City Square is 31,000 Sq ms). As Ms Taheny puts it: "unbelievable but true". She says that objectors were not prepared for the second proposal as the first had been so comprehensively rejected by BP and the one local objector subsequently withdrew their objection leaving KCC a clear field to grant permission, despite BP's earlier observations. And, needless to say, they duly did so which should be game, set and match against anyone who thinks they are fit to adjudicate on planning applications in the Ferrybank area.

Dunmoreroader · 15-03-2016 12:55pm

Would love to see the list of Councillors who voted all this through. No doubt will include a who's who of S.Kilkenny's staunchest defenders from the Piltown Electoral Area. Anyone know how to access this?

Deise Vu · 15-03-2016 1:27pm

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

Would love to see the list of Councillors who voted all this through. No doubt will include a who's who of S.Kilkenny's staunchest defenders from the Piltown Electoral Area. Anyone know how to access this?

In fairness, no Councillor anywhere, is going to vote against any development in their area when all the negative effects of the development are going to occur in a different constituency. It would be more interesting to note the one who voted against (presumably a Green, who might actually read and understand things like Spatial Strategy?)

Yes Boss · 15-03-2016 3:52pm

I would love to see a copy of the appeal that was withdrawn. There are many reasons as to why an appeal could be withdrawn, however if I was a developer with that size of a development and one objector - I would ensure that appeal was withdrawn.

Boundary Extension for City?

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