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Nelson's Pillar

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Comments

  • #212
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Triumphalist over the French not the Irish. Also at the time he was our countryman. It was erected to commemorate our victory..


    The French were not the enemy of the Irish people, he was not our "countryman", it was not "our" victory.
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I haven't dropped anything. It's clear to me you value your anglophobia more than democracy.

    "Anglophobia" my arse. You're getting desperate now.


  • #213
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Nodin wrote: »
    The French were not the enemy of the Irish people, he was not our "countryman", it was not "our" victory.
    The French were clearly the enemy of the Irish people since we were at war with them.

    Regardless, whether or not you consider the French (imperialists!) your enemies or not it doesn't change the fact you were wrong when you said the pillar was erected as a symbol of triumphantism over the Irish. The pillar was erected to commemorate our victory over the French.
    "Anglophobia" my arse. You're getting desperate now.
    What else do I call a man who doesn't want a statue of a man in Dublin purely because he's English.


  • #214
    storker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,750 ✭✭✭storker


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    There is enough evidence in this thread alone that suggests it is wrapped up in nationalism.... just not Irish nationalism

    Cite?


  • #215
    diomed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    What else do I call a man who doesn't want a statue of a man in Dublin purely because he's English.
    Careful now. They'll be calling you a west-Brit. :pac:


  • #216
    Sheep Lover
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,730 ✭✭✭Sheep Lover


    Just another jingoistic advertisement to a dead empire that was based on the suffering of other countries. Should have blown up years before that.


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  • #217
    storker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,750 ✭✭✭storker


    kingchess wrote: »
    You mean not Irish nationalism anyway,but of course English(British?) nationalism is A-okay with you.to quote Nelson himself at the battle of Trafalgar,"England expects that every man will do his duty" and I think that it is very commendable of you to take that message to heart over a hundred years later,wrong but still commendable of you.

    Sorry but you're talking utter rubbish. Please quote one thing I've said that displays British nationalism.

    While you're at it, please explain clearly why my post indicates that I am following 200-year-old orders.

    Over to you...


  • #218
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,566 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    diomed wrote: »
    He was a great lad. Jackeens worship him.
    Why should terrorists from a foreign country (Northern Ireland) have a right to blow up our monuments?


    they were not terrorists from a foreign country. they were oppressed catholics from the northern part of this country. they are irish.
    riffmongous wrote: »
    You must have missed the part when they sent over all the colonists

    i'm afraid you are replying to a "good unionist/loyalist" who hates this republic, and who will deny that ireland was a colony dispite the facts.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #219
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    end of the road wrote: »
    they were not terrorists from a foreign country. they were oppressed catholics from the northern part of this country. they are irish.

    Terrorists? Check.
    Foreign country? Check.

    Terrorists from a foreign country? Check.


  • #220
    cajonlardo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭cajonlardo


    maryishere wrote: »
    the ira only blew off the top...not that difficult. It took more explosives at ground level to destroy the remainder, but nobody ever claimed our Irish army lads in '66 were ultra efficient.
    glynf wrote: »
    My father encountered it at a house party one night shortly after, apparently it did the rounds for a good while. He was also there when the army were tasked with demolishing the remainder of the column, and made a balls of it blowing out windows all over the place due to too much explosives.


    If you care to take yourself down to the national archives you can view some interesting papers on the Army's work. Included in the file are four letters from Civil Engineering firms from Ireland, the U.K and Germany. Each one declined the job on the grounds they were nervous about the proximity of the other buildings. There are also two letters congratulating the Army Engineers on what was deemed to be a success by their Civilian Peers.

    When the Army Engineer corp visited the businesses they advised the business to leave any windows open and warned that any fixed glass would be broken. Several of the shop owners claimed their buildings were damaged but on investigation, that damage was deemed to be far older - possibly from the rising.
    Several dodgy claims were settled because it was believed to be cheaper than fighting a court case.There are photos in the archives showing moss and grass growing in some of the cracks. There was also unavoidable genuine damage to buildings - you cannot possibly blow up a stone structure without an amount of shrapnel striking buildings so close. This damage was minimal - if it was not those buildings would exhibit either damage or repairs to this day.
    Still unconvinced?

    Several of the men present that day went on to do the explosive effects on the Movies Blue Max and the Red Baron amongst other war movies shot in Ireland. When you are placing explosives in aircraft made of beech and covered with linen and there is a live pilot involved you are playing in the big league. Several of those men present were also involved in the formation of the E.O.D that exists in the Army today and pioneered the reputation the Irish E.O.D has earned internationally.

    Men on duty that day survive and are obviously elderly.
    Neither of you have any right to slur their names.
    These men served the state with distinction and were highly thought of by people who were actually qualified to judge them.

    I've said it before. I am sure the Irish Army has had bad days and days when things went badly wrong. This day just wasn't one of them :)


  • #221
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    The French were clearly the enemy of the Irish people since we were at war with them. .

    "we" were not at war with France.

    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    What else do I call a man who doesn't want a statue of a man in Dublin purely because he's English.

    British, lionised for his role in defence of the Empire.


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  • #222
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    diomed wrote: »
    Careful now. They'll be calling you a west-Brit. :pac:

    Giving out labels when something is so self evident is a bit redundant.


  • #223
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,566 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Terrorists? Check.
    Foreign country? Check.

    Terrorists from a foreign country? Check.

    wrong, they were irish freedom fighters from northern ireland, which is irish

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #224
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Nodin wrote: »
    "we" were not at war with France.
    Yes "we" were and your insistence to the contrary is nothing more than a bizarre attempt to rewrite history.
    British, lionised for his role in defence of the Empire.
    Defence of his country you mean.


  • #225
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    end of the road wrote: »
    wrong, they were irish freedom fighters from northern ireland, which is irish

    Wrong, they were Northern Irish terrorists from Northern Ireland, which is Northern Irish.


  • #226
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,415 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Wrong, they were Northern Irish terrorists from Northern Ireland, which is Northern Irish.

    I bet you are confused that the most northerly part of Ireland is not in Northern Ireland. Do you still refer to Southern Ireland?


  • #227
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Yes "we" were and your insistence to the contrary is nothing more than a bizarre attempt to rewrite history. .

    We were a colony, subjugated once more not seven years before the battle of Trafalgar.
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Defence of his country you mean.

    Their empire, not ours.


  • #228
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    I bet you are confused that the most northerly part of Ireland is not in Northern Ireland. Do you still refer to Southern Ireland?

    Who mentioned Southern? Northern Ireland is a political term.


  • #229
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,415 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Who mentioned Southern? Northern Ireland is a political term.


    and Northern Irish is not a nationality


  • #230
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Nodin wrote: »
    We were a colony, subjugated once more not seven years before the battle of Trafalgar.
    We were a home country of the United Kingdom. Hundreds of Irish died fighting the French. The people who (according to you) weren't our enemies and we weren't at war with.
    Their empire, not ours.

    Nelson fought the French to protect his country from invasion.

    Also the British empire was very much partially ours. We helped build it, administered it and fought to maintain it. You might as well say Galicia wasn't part of the Spanish Empire.


  • #231
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    and Northern Irish is not a nationality

    Yes it is


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  • #232
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Nodin wrote: »
    The French were not the enemy of the Irish people.[i/quote]

    Ah yes, good old Napoleon. Much nicer than the imperialist Brits.


  • #233
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    We were (.............) Empire.

    Thousands of Africans and Indians/Pakistanis died fighting in various wars for the empire. Try telling them they were a "home country".

    Again, your concern for a statue in comparison to your attitude to catholic/nationalists in ni is rather telling. Of course its a bit pointless, as the statue is destroyed and, like many things, is not coming back.


  • #234
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Fratton Fred wrote: »

    Ah yes, good old Napoleon. Much nicer than the imperialist Brits.

    Sorry Fred, do you have a point there?


  • #235
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Nodin wrote: »

    British, lionised for his role in defence of the Empire.

    No, lionised for his role in defeating the French imperial navy.

    I thought defeating empires was your thing.


  • #236
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,782 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Dun Laoghaire pier serves a purpose, as does the GPO and Customs House

    What purpose does a monument to a foreign colonist serve?
    It was a viewing tower and a popular tourist attraction. Fair enough do away with the statue, no need to do away with the tower.

    Of course, many statues have been done away with. No particular need to blow them up on a shopping street when there are people around.
    riffmongous wrote: »
    You must have missed the part when they sent over all the colonists
    WAs Nelson one of them?


  • #237
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    No, lionised for his role in defeating the French imperial navy.

    I thought defeating empires was your thing.


    .....emmm, the British were the empire that were occupying us, so in all honesty where you're going with this is a mystery.


  • #238
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Victor wrote: »
    It was a viewing tower and a popular tourist attraction. Fair enough do away with the statue, no need to do away with the tower.

    Of course, many statues have been done away with. No particular need to blow them up on a shopping street when there are people around.


    .....which brings me back to "it should have been moved".


  • #239
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Nodin wrote: »
    Thousands of Africans and Indians/Pakistanis died fighting in various wars for the empire. Try telling them they were a "home country".

    Again, your concern for a statue in comparison to your attitude to catholic/nationalists in ni is rather telling. Of course its a bit pointless, as the statue is destroyed and, like many things, is not coming back.

    Those Africans and Indians shot and beaten by Irish soldiers? Yeah I'm sure they didn't consider us a home country.

    My concern for the statue is not nearly as great as my concern for your liberal revision of history. But then historical accuracy was never a feature of Irish republican rethoric, especially the northern variety where any semblance of moderation was long ago replaced by an irrational hatred of all things English.


  • #240
    Ice Maiden
    Closed Accounts Posts: 600 ✭✭✭Ice Maiden


    Berserker wrote: »
    I know that, neither was I. I was talking about their neighbours in NI who aspire to being Irish. Unionist and Loyalist people behave themselves when they come down here.
    I know you were - just pointing out your double standards. And also "they don't behave themselves in their own country" - they? Be more specific. Loyalists indeed don't "behave themselves in their own country" either.


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  • #241
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Those Africans and Indians shot by Irish soldiers? ................

    The ones killed by the Germans, French, Japanese and so on. For a fan of the Brits you don't know that much about them...or maybe its like I said earlier - the brown lads don't count.

    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    My concern for the statue is not nearly as great ................
    .....as your deep hatred for irish nationalism, republicanism and seemingly everything else that stands against systematic oppression. Bit strange that.


This discussion has been closed.
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