Nelson's Pillar

Junkyard Tom · 06-03-2016 03:38AM

maryishere wrote: »

As a well know Irish commentator said during the week, it it was not for the British forces you would be speaking German now.

That old flaccid trope. If it wasn't for the British we'd still be speaking Irish.

If you were homeless in Dublin, would you put up with the pillar if it provided you with a home? Yes or no?

Ugh. Your efforts at disguising your pro-British military jingoism as care for the homeless is quite the spectacle.

Embarrassed for you. Quit while you're ahead you still retain a vestige of credibility.

maryishere · 06-03-2016 03:38AM

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Yes, for the time it was an incredibly small number,

so you still think 206,000 Irishmen who volunteered in Ireland to go to war in British army uniforms was an incredibly small number? Many more Irishmen / men of Irish extraction joined in Britain. Many more worked in factories, shipyards, or other British forces, or on ships without which the war could not be fought.

How many did you say blew up the pillar?

If you were homeless in Dublin in 1976 or 1986 or 2016, would you put up with the pillar if the tourism revenue it generated (up to 20 million euro per year ) provided you and many other homeless with a home? Yes or no?

maryishere · 06-03-2016 03:41AM

GAAman wrote: »

I always love the thought that the ra took out the statue perfectly then the Irish army came in to blow up the rest to remove it and removed half of the street shop fronts! :pac:

Thats because the ira only took off the top of the pillar

Sweetemotion · 06-03-2016 03:44AM

maryishere wrote: »

If you were homeless in Dublin in 1976 or 1986 or 2016, would you put up with the pillar if the tourism revenue it generated (up to 20 million euro per year ) provided you and many other homeless with a home? Yes or no?

Why do you keep saying this? It's something that you made up in your mind that has no relevance to this thread what so ever.

Junkyard Tom · 06-03-2016 03:46AM

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Why do you keep saying this? It's something that you made up in your mind that has no relevance to this thread what so ever.

She's creating a stupendously obvious false dilemma. If you don't support monuments to British imperialism you hate the homeless.

It's quite pathetic.

buried · 06-03-2016 03:48AM

maryishere wrote: »

so you still think 206,000 Irishmen who volunteered in Ireland to go to war in British army uniforms was an incredibly small number? Many more Irishmen / men of Irish extraction joined in Britain. Many more worked in factories, shipyards, or other British forces, or on ships without which the war could not be fought.

How many did you say blew up the pillar?

If you were homeless in Dublin in 1976 or 1986 or 2016, would you put up with the pillar if the tourism revenue it generated (up to 20 million euro per year ) provided you and many other homeless with a home? Yes or no?

The pillar is gone Mary. Let it go. Irish people have given a mandate in the recent election for the next Irish government to look after certain sections of society like people who have found themselves to be homeless. Don't worry about it

maryishere · 06-03-2016 03:48AM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

That old flaccid trope. If it wasn't for the British we'd still be speaking Irish.

Now Thats old flaccid trope. If it was'nt for the British we would be speaking German, there would be no Jews, Homosexuals or Gyspies in Ireland, there would be no FDI ( Amerian factories here or Foreign Direct Investment ). On the upside, our population may be higher because people may not have been able, in the event of Nazi victory in Europe (which would have been inevitable but for the UK standing against it in 1940) to emigrate to those great English speaking countries such as Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Britain, USA etc as easily.

The Golden Miller · 06-03-2016 03:49AM

maryishere wrote: »

so you still think 206,000 Irishmen who volunteered in Ireland to go to war in British army uniforms was an incredibly small number? Many more Irishmen / men of Irish extraction joined in Britain. Many more worked in factories, shipyards, or other British forces, or on ships without which the war could not be fought.

How many did you say blew up the pillar?

If you were homeless in Dublin in 1966 or 1986 or 2016, would you put up with the pillar if it provided you with a home? Yes or no?

Yes, FOR THE TIME it was small. Men of Irish extraction? Like my first generation cousin in England who doesn't even consider himself slightly Irish? Irish descendants in England are irrelevant to an argument on whether "the Irish supported the war effort" or not. Working in a factory in England to support your family has absolutely no bearing on anything and cannot even be tediously linked as validation that hundreds of thousands of Irish supported the war effort from back home in Ireland. Want to give some figures while we're on the subject?

What's the relevance of how many blew up the pillar? Going to try and contrast this to the numbers who fought in WW1 to show how everyone loved Nelson and the British Army?

If this 20 million was such an important figure for the government then surely they would have erected another pillar with someone else on it, with even more space for the homeless?

Sweetemotion · 06-03-2016 03:51AM

maryishere wrote: »

Now Thats old flaccid trope. If it was'nt for the British we would be speaking German, there would be no Jews, Homosexuals or Gyspies in Ireland, there would be no FDI ( Amerian factories here or Foreign Direct Investment ). On the upside, our population may be higher because people may not have been able, in the event of Nazi victory in Europe (which would have been inevitable but for the UK standing against it in 1940) to emigrate to those great English speaking countries such as Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Britain, USA etc as easily.

Was it not Russia who defeated the Germans?

maryishere · 06-03-2016 03:54AM

buried wrote: »

Irish people have given a mandate in the recent election for the next Irish government to look after certain sections of society like people who have found themselves to be homeless.

And you believe the next Irish government will solve the homeless and poverty and crime problem in Dublin?

I pass homeless every day in Dublin : unfortunately I do not see their lot being improved very much any time soon.

If there was a figure of Gerry Adams on top of the pillar, and tourists could use it as a viewing platform to admire Dublin city below them, would you approve of that?

Junkyard Tom · 06-03-2016 03:54AM

maryishere wrote: »

If it was'nt for the British we would be..

Seriously, stop embarrassing yourself. The principle reasons Ireland and Britain wasn't taken by the Germans was the Soviets and the Americans. Also the British war effort drew heavily on its 'commonwealth' soldiers.

The British couldn't even control the north during the troubles and got a thorough kicking in Afghanistan. The glory days of the British Empire are well and truly over. Get to grips with it.

The Golden Miller · 06-03-2016 03:57AM

maryishere wrote: »

And you believe the next Irish government will solve the homeless and poverty and crime problem in Dublin?

I pass homeless every day in Dublin : unfortunately I do not see their lot being improved very much any time soon.

If there was a figure of Gerry Adams on top of the pillar, and tourists could use it as a viewing platform to admire Dublin city below them, would you approve of that?

So if we stick a pillar on O'Connell Street it will solve the homeless crises, ye? Why did no one in the government think of that one yet?

A statue of Mr. Adams would be a far more welcome addition than another statue of good aul Nelson

maryishere · 06-03-2016 03:58AM

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Was it not Russia who defeated the Germans?

It was one of the allies.

Under the codename Operation "Barbarossa," Nazi Germany invaded the Soviet Union on June 22, 1941, in the largest German military operation of World War II.
In 1940, Britain was alone in western Europe fighting Nazism. It is almost certain that if Britain did not fight Nazism / the Axis forces, we would be we would be speaking German, there would be no Jews, Homosexuals or Gyspies in Ireland, there would be no FDI ( Amerian factories here or Foreign Direct Investment ).

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

and the Americans..

They were late in both world wars. It was not fighting Nazism in Europe in 1940, when Britain stood alone. If Britain fell, it could not have been used by America to launch air attacks on Axis comntrolled Europe, to as a launch pad for the D-Day landings etc. You show a frightening lack of grasp of history.

Sweetemotion · 06-03-2016 04:00AM

Lets build Nelson's pillar in every country, we could end the worlds homeless crisis and have homes for everyone. Yay!!!

The Golden Miller · 06-03-2016 04:02AM

maryishere wrote: »

It was one of the allies.

Under the codename Operation "Barbarossa," Nazi Germany invaded the Soviet Union on June 22, 1941, in the largest German military operation of World War II.

How did that end for them?

maryishere wrote: »

In 1940, Britain was alone in western Europe fighting Nazism. It is almost certain that if Britain did not fight Nazism / the Axis forces, we would be we would be speaking German, there would be no Jews, Homosexuals or Gyspies in Ireland, there would be no FDI ( Amerian factories here or Foreign Direct Investment ).

Well considering the Nazi's would have been beaten anyway.....

buried · 06-03-2016 04:03AM

maryishere wrote: »

And you believe the next Irish government will solve the homeless and poverty and crime problem in Dublin?

I pass homeless every day in Dublin : unfortunately I do not see their lot being improved very much any time soon.

If there was a figure of Gerry Adams on top of the pillar, and tourists could use it as a viewing platform to admire Dublin city below them, would you approve of that?

I believe Irish people are decent and communal and want to see a fairer society for everybody on the island. The recent general election proved that by the electorate not giving a landslide victory to political parties that were just promising more money for peoples pockets and ignoring important issues such as housing and health.

maryishere · 06-03-2016 04:16AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

50 years a go next week, March 8th, Nelson's Pillar was blown up on O'Connell Street by a bunch of nuts.

Was this ok in hindsight? They could have kept the pillar and replaced Nelson with a better person like Charles Haughey for example where we have yet to have a fitting memorial or Bertie Ahern when he dies.

We would have had the views over the city that the spire does not offer. Or even just kept Nelson who by some accounts was a good looking fella.

I agree with ye they could have kept the pillar and replaced Nelson with a better person like Charles Haughey for example where we have yet to have a fitting memorial or Bertie Ahern when he dies. But lets not forget Brian Cowen. He deserves something too. I believe he did not even get his portrait painted for the Dail yet, unlike other ex-Taoiseach.

buried wrote: »

I believe Irish people are decent and communal and want to see a fairer society for everybody on the island.

Correct, we are. Like most people everywhere want to see a fairer society.
Nelson wanted a fairer society too, I'm sure. And he , with his navy which was up to a third Irish, helped to defend these island against invasion from Europe at the time, and that is why Nelson was greatly respected in Dublin, and money was raised by voluntary subscription to build that giant pillar and viewing platform, with its 168 steps inside. Haughey, Ahern and Cowen wanted a fairer society too, I'm sure. Why not put one of them up on top of the Spike, the best we can do in 2016?

GAAman · 06-03-2016 04:52AM

maryishere wrote: »

Thats because the ira only took off the top of the pillar

It's also because the Irish army used far too much explosive material

topmanamillion · 06-03-2016 05:13AM

Nelsons pillar would have been eventually removed as the fact was the general public didn't want a statue of an English general in the middle of the capitals main strength.
There were a good few attempts to replace him with a statue of Wolfe Tone/Padraig Pearse but it always got bogged down in legal disputes because Nelsons pillar was held in trust and there was disputes about who would pay for it.
In hindsight the RA probably did a public service.

corner of hells · 06-03-2016 06:06AM

Not for one minute do I believe the IRA blew up a statue of Nelson Mandela , sure didn't they like him . Hic ... aha there ya are snack box.

The flying mouse · 06-03-2016 06:43AM

Rebuild nelsons pillar it will solve the homeless crisis ,.... One of the men that blew up the pillar is having a kinda celebration meal and drink in Dublin next week, fair play to him,I would gladly buy him a pint.

I would say the Brit lovin hate everything Irish posters here are cringing with the admount of coverage and reactments the Easter rising is getting, even in Dublin airport the shops are full of our true history , Just bought three calanders to give to my friends in Portugal. :-) .

The J Stands for Jay · 06-03-2016 08:46AM

maryishere wrote: »

As a well know Irish commentator said during the week, it it was not for the British forces you would be speaking German now.
If it was not foir the lads who blew up the pillar, we would have a proper tourist attraction / viewing platform in the middle of our main street in the capital now, which could provide up to 20 million of revenue per year to help the homeless.

If you were homeless in Dublin, would you put up with the pillar if it provided you with a home? Yes or no?

I'm not too clear on the details, but we've already been invaded and forced to speak a foreign language.

The J Stands for Jay · 06-03-2016 08:49AM

maryishere wrote: »

Now Thats old flaccid trope. If it was'nt for the British we would be speaking German, there would be no Jews, Homosexuals or Gyspies in Ireland, there would be no FDI ( Amerian factories here or Foreign Direct Investment ). On the upside, our population may be higher because people may not have been able, in the event of Nazi victory in Europe (which would have been inevitable but for the UK standing against it in 1940) to emigrate to those great English speaking countries such as Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Britain, USA etc as easily.

Great, let's ignore the American and Russian war efforts.

OldMrBrennan83 · 06-03-2016 08:55AM

This post has been deleted.

The Rape of Lucretia · 06-03-2016 11:39AM

I dont think I would go for rebuilding the column as it were necessarily, although that would be interesting, but some monument to Nelson would be appropriate, a chance to improve on the furniture of O'Connell St,, and rectify that mistake of 50 years ago.
I would still go for something more or less classical in design.
Or even a monument to Trafalgar in the wider sense as a key point in out history, and not solely Nelson.

maryishere · 06-03-2016 11:46AM

McGaggs wrote: »

I'm not too clear on the details, but we've already been invaded and forced to speak a foreign language.

You could say the same about the indiginous populations of Australia, New Zealand, Canada, USA etc ...and that is where there are tens of millions of people of Irish desent living / chose to live, in those countries invaded by those nasty Brits in their time. In the first year or 2 of WW2, Britain was alone in western Europe fighting Nazism. It is almost certain that if Britain did not fight Nazism / the Axis forces, we would be we would be speaking German, there would be no Jews, Homosexuals or Gyspies in Ireland, there would be no FDI ( Amerian factories here or Foreign Direct Investment ).

maryishere · 06-03-2016 11:53AM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

I dont think I would go for rebuilding the column as it were necessarily, although that would be interesting, but some monument to Nelson would be appropriate, a chance to improve on the furniture of O'Connell St,, and rectify that mistake of 50 years ago.
I would still go for something more or less classical in design.
Or even a monument to Trafalgar in the wider sense as a key point in out history, and not solely Nelson.

And out of respect for the 400 Dublin men who served under Nelson, and out of respect for those Dublin people who raised funds to build Nelsons column, and out of respect for the mostly Dublin workers who skilfully built it.

A survey of foreign tourists found 98% were disappointed that a minority of Irish people were responsible for destroying a classical historic monument / viewing platform in Dublin, and that nothing of equal architectural importance (compared to the GPO, Trinity, College Green, Customs house etc) was built here in the 100 years of independence.
The IRA and taliban are unique in the world in destroying monuments of architectural importance because they did not agree with them / respect those in their populations who wanted them.

The Rape of Lucretia · 06-03-2016 11:55AM

maryishere wrote: »

And out of respect for the 400 Dublin men who served under Nelson, and out of respect for those Dublin people who raised funds to build Nelsons column, and out of respect for the mostly Dublin workers who skilfully built it.

A survey of foreign tourists found 98% were disappointed that a minority of Irish people were responsible for destroying a classical historic monument / viewing platform in Dublin, and that nothing of equal architectural importance (compared to the GPO, Trinity, College Green, Customs house etc) was built here in the 100 years of independence.
The IRA and taliban are unique in the world in destroying monuments of architectural importance because they did not agree with them / respect those in their populations who wanted them.

Yes, a good case for an exact replica then. It would be a good step in national maturity and atonement.

glynf · 06-03-2016 11:59AM

My name is URL wrote: »

Shur anyway, old Horatio's head had a great run of life after it was blown off

Spent time in a shop front in London after a load of students robbed it and leased it to a guy there. It even appeared in a commercial or two, and on stage with the Dubliners.

Beats getting shit on by pigeons, no?

My father encountered it at a house party one night shortly after, apparently it did the rounds for a good while. He was also there when the army were tasked with demolishing the remainder of the column, and made a balls of it blowing out windows all over the place due to too much explosives.

maryishere · 06-03-2016 12:14PM

glynf wrote: »

My father encountered it at a house party one night shortly after, apparently it did the rounds for a good while. He was also there when the army were tasked with demolishing the remainder of the column, and made a balls of it blowing out windows all over the place due to too much explosives.

the ira only blew off the top...not that difficult. It took more explosives at ground level to destroy the remainder, but nobody ever claimed our Irish army lads in '66 were ultra efficient.

As someone else said, Lord Nelson did nothing negatively affecting Ireland. In fact, when the Battle of Trafalgar was won in 1805, there were public scenes of jubilation in Dublin, as he was seen as fighting in the interests of the British Empire, which at the time included Ireland. The column was constructed 3 years later, and there doesn't seem to have been much opposition at the time.
Nelson,like emperor nepolian bonaparte was respected by both friends and enemies alike (except in modern ireland).

Would those who support the destruction of Dublins past condone the Taliban relatively recently blowing up ancient monuments elsewhere I wonder?

Nelson's Pillar

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