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Food stolen from counter in a takeaway

124678

Comments

  • #92
    TheChizler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,543 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    I specifically said that if they can't do that they shouldn't give it to the next person they see.


  • #93
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Mountainsandh wrote: »
    Are you suggesting the cashier, seeing the customer leave the premises to take a phone call, should have stepped out from behind the counter, and gone outside to fetch the customer to complete transaction ?

    What the cashier should have done was kept the food behind the counter until the customer returned, simple really.

    When the cashier was approached by these randomers claiming ownership he should have told them "I'll give the food and change to your friend when he comes back in", again really simple.


  • #94
    cormie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,859 ✭✭✭✭cormie


    I skipped a page or two, not sure this has been asked yet, but if it was established to be the fault of the take away, at what stage of abandonment would their liability lift? I mean if someone was gone for 2 minutes, they may seem liable, if someone left and didn't come back for several hours, does the liability lift based on the assumption they aren't coming back? Who would the change legally belong to after a certain amount of time had it been a quiet shop where nobody else took it, but it was simply left for hours or days?


  • #95
    armaghlad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,660 ✭✭✭armaghlad


    cormie wrote: »
    I skipped a page or two, not sure this has been asked yet, but if it was established to be the fault of the take away, at what stage of abandonment would their liability lift? I mean if someone was gone for 2 minutes, they may seem liable, if someone left and didn't come back for several hours, does the liability lift based on the assumption they aren't coming back? Who would the change legally belong to after a certain amount of time had it been a quiet shop where nobody else took it, but it was simply left for hours or days?
    Are those questions really relevant? I'd imagine, any business with a shred of integrity would hold onto the change for that weekend at least, and if no one ever came forward to claim it put it in the charity box after say a week. That's not an unreasonable course of action.


  • #96
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    cormie wrote: »
    I skipped a page or two, not sure this has been asked yet, but if it was established to be the fault of the take away, at what stage of abandonment would their liability lift? I mean if someone was gone for 2 minutes, they may seem liable, if someone left and didn't come back for several hours, does the liability lift based on the assumption they aren't coming back? Who would the change legally belong to after a certain amount of time had it been a quiet shop where nobody else took it, but it was simply left for hours or days?

    Anybody who walks in and claims it apparently ........ according to the takeaway!


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  • #97
    Rayne Wooney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,134 ✭✭✭✭Rayne Wooney


    If you drop your child off at a daycare and pay for them to mind the child you wouldn't expect them to leave the child unattended at an open front door at 4 o clock if you weren't there yet

    Some people seem to have taken a "well good for him, karma" stance because of the phone call when it doesn't matter because he paid for the food and the cashier gave his food and change to someone that wasn't him apparently without his knowledge


  • #98
    SteM
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,505 ✭✭✭SteM


    The people to blame here are the lads that stole the money. The people blaming the staff or the OP are both off imo. It's not like one poster said - the staff did not give it to the next person to come along. They gave it to people that lied and said they were with the OP's friend.


  • #99
    SteM
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,505 ✭✭✭SteM


    BTW, I've been in plenty of takeaways (some would say too many) and every one was the same process

    - make order
    - pay
    - get change/receipt
    - wait for food
    - collect food

    If I go outside or nip to the shop I'll tell the counter staff. I've never seen a takeaway or chipper give change with the food.


  • #100
    armaghlad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,660 ✭✭✭armaghlad


    SteM wrote: »
    The people to blame here are the lads that stole the money. The people blaming the staff or the OP are both off imo. It's not like one poster said - the staff did not give it to the next person to come along. They gave it to people that lied and said they were with the OP's friend.
    The staff didn't give the food to anyone. They left it unattended on the counter. Along with the money. I've worked in a shop before and never in my life would I leave a customer's money lying unattended for someone to else to potentially lift. Also if someone came in claiming the food was theirs I'd at least exercise some caution and ask them what the order was. The takeaway owe the OP's friend a refund and an apology.


  • #101
    SteM
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,505 ✭✭✭SteM


    armaghlad wrote: »
    The staff didn't give the food to anyone. They left it unattended on the counter. Along with the money. I've worked in a shop before and never in my life would I leave a customer's money lying unattended for someone to else to potentially lift. Also if someone came in claiming the food was theirs I'd at least exercise some caution and ask them what the order was. The takeaway owe the OP's friend a refund and an apology.

    It wasn't unattended. The OP said

    The scumbags told the one at the counter that they were with my friend and took the food and change and left.

    So there was someone there. It wasn't unattended.


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  • #102
    cormie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,859 ✭✭✭✭cormie


    armaghlad wrote: »
    Are those questions really relevant? I'd imagine, any business with a shred of integrity would hold onto the change for that weekend at least, and if no one ever came forward to claim it put it in the charity box after say a week. That's not an unreasonable course of action.

    It may be slightly relevant if there's a legal time that would be viewed as reasonable that the customer didn't come back and it was assumed he wasn't coming back for product or change. Giving money to charity is never unreasonable, but would the takeaway have a legal right to that money after a certain amount of time? I've heard before that legally, places don't even need to give change, that if you give a 50 for something worth €5, €50 is your offer for it, and the establishment has no requirement to give change, but obviously everywhere does or they'd get no business :)


  • #103
    armaghlad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,660 ✭✭✭armaghlad


    SteM wrote: »
    It wasn't unattended. The OP said

    The scumbags told the one at the counter that they were with my friend and took the food and change and left.

    So there was someone there. It wasn't unattended.

    "The guy at the counter left the food and the change on the counter"

    That to me is unattended. If the money isn't in the till or the customer's hand, it is unattended. Likewise if the food isn't in the customer's hand, or behind the till, it is unattended. Pedantry maybe but it's simple common sense that would negate anything like this ever happening.


  • #104
    KenjiOdo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 223 ✭✭KenjiOdo


    I often wait outside or in the car while waiting on a takeaway. I hate standing at the counter waiting 10 mins for food to be cooked & don't see why people do. I either pay and receive change & go for a walk or pay on my return. The person working at this takeaway was very stupid to hand over change & food to someone else but mistakes happen & puts them at fault I presume.

    Saying that I wouldn't be surprised if this was a scam of some form & the takeaway wised up to it refusing to take a hit. Where the 'scumbags' & 'victim' are in cahoots. If takeaway paid out they'd be up €50!


  • #105
    stefan.kuntz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 91 ✭✭stefan.kuntz


    gizmo555 wrote: »
    Read the thread.

    Are you the 'friend'?

    How does the OP or the friend know that this is the exact sequence of events? Did the 'friend' see the change and food being left on the counter?


  • #106
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    armaghlad wrote: »
    I'm not a legal eagle.. what's the correct terminology?

    I'm no legal eagle either, but "duty of care" I would associate with persons, as in Rayne Wooney's example. Fundamentally different of course.

    I don't think there's a duty of anything but maybe customer service when it's chips and burgers you're dealing with. Imo customer service involves the customer abiding by their side of the contract, which is simply to remain on premises to complete transaction.

    Either you're not freaking out about the value of your purchase, and you decide to step out and take a call/go to the shop... mid transaction, that's grand, that's your choice, and 99% of the time there's no problem...

    ... or you decide your purchase warrants staying on site until transaction is completed.

    It's your choice, and your responsibility.

    Not every responsibility can be pushed back onto the retailer. (I'm not a retailer or restaurant owner Btw)


  • #107
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    armaghlad wrote: »
    "The guy at the counter left the food and the change on the counter"

    That to me is unattended. If the money isn't in the till or the customer's hand, it is unattended. Likewise if the food isn't in the customer's hand, or behind the till, it is unattended. Pedantry maybe but it's simple common sense that would negate anything like this ever happening.

    Customer unavailable because off the premises, so the fact it's unattended is customer's prerogative.


  • #108
    TheChizler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,543 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Mountainsandh wrote: »
    Imo customer service involves the customer abiding by their side of the contract, which is simply to remain on premises to complete transaction.
    Is it? Is that part of contract law? Was it part of the terms and conditions presented to the friend before he ordered his burger?


  • #109
    TheChizler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,543 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Mountainsandh wrote: »
    Customer unavailable because off the premises, so the fact it's unattended is customer's prerogative.
    It was left unattended by the cashier, not the customer. It would be different if the cashier had given it to the friend and he then left it unattended.


  • #110
    stefan.kuntz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 91 ✭✭stefan.kuntz


    TheChizler wrote: »
    before he ordered his burger?

    I have been assuming this was a chinese.

    OP, what sort of takeaway was it? Chinese, chipper, pizza, indian or other?

    We need this vital piece of information.


  • #111
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    TheChizler wrote: »
    Is it? Is that part of contract law? Was it part of the terms and conditions presented to the friend before he ordered his burger?

    Is the customer not needed on premises for a sale to take place ?
    Are you saying it's not obvious to you that you should be there to receive your good ?


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  • #112
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    gizmo555 wrote: »
    Again, what is the legal principle that says it was the customer's loss, rather than the takeaway's?

    Because they are the one that actually suffered the loss. Both the food and the change were property of the customer. It would also seem to fall under the definition of an owner in Section 2 (4) (c) of the Theft and Fraud Offences Act.
    (c) where a person receives property from or on behalf of another, and is under an obligation to that other person to retain and deal with that property or its proceeds in a particular way, that other person shall be regarded (as against the first-mentioned person) as the owner of the property;


  • #113
    gizmo555
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,878 ✭✭✭gizmo555


    stefan.kuntz wrote: »
    How does the OP or the friend know that this is the exact sequence of events? Did the 'friend' see the change and food being left on the counter?

    Does a belief that the OP may not know exactly what happened justify the invention of "facts" by posters to support their arguments?


  • #114
    TheChizler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,543 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    stefan.kuntz wrote: »
    I have been assuming this was a chinese.

    OP, what sort of takeaway was it? Chinese, chipper, pizza, indian or other?

    We need this vital piece of information.
    Yes. OP we need to find out if Chinese, Irish, Italian, or Indian contract law applies!


  • #115
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    TheChizler wrote: »
    It was left unattended by the cashier, not the customer. It would be different if the cashier had given it to the friend and he then left it unattended.

    Had the customer been there, it wouldn't have been unattended, would it ? Had the customer been in the premises at that moment, yes, I would blame seller for not handing out goods to them.


  • #116
    coffeepls
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭coffeepls


    Rayne Wooney wrote: »
    If you drop your child off at a daycare and pay for them to mind the child you wouldn't expect them to leave the child unattended at an open front door at 4 o clock if you weren't there yet

    Some people seem to have taken a "well good for him, karma" stance because of the phone call when it doesn't matter because he paid for the food and the cashier gave his food and change to someone that wasn't him apparently without his knowledge

    I cracked up laughing there..... Comparing a child collection to change of €50 and food!

    Anyway - for what it's worth, I think it is strange that the OP's friend gave them a 50 and did not wait for the change. I think the takeaway isn't doing themselves any favours by saying it's not at least partially their fault, for the sake of keeping customers. I would assume they'd replace the food. Its a very strange situation in all honesty.


  • #117
    TheChizler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,543 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Mountainsandh wrote: »
    Is the customer not needed on premises for a sale to take place ?
    Are you saying it's not obvious to you that you should be there to receive your good ?
    To the first question, no. What about phone or internet sales? To the second, yes. He came back, and did not receive his goods as they had been given away already and they refused to replace them. The sale was not completed.


  • #118
    stefan.kuntz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 91 ✭✭stefan.kuntz


    gizmo555 wrote: »
    Does a belief that the OP may not know exactly what happened justify the invention of "facts" by posters to support their arguments?

    Why is he posting if he doesn't know exactly what happened?


  • #119
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    SteM wrote: »
    This is exactly what happens in powercity but they have a process in place. They check the receipt before they hand it over. The chippy obviously doesn't have this process in place, even if they had the OP's friend wandered off before he got the change and receipt.

    what Chinese does this? What Chinese does NOT dump the food down and shout a number and then walk away?

    Different premises, different proceedures.


  • #120
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    TheChizler wrote: »
    To the first question, no. What about phone or internet sales? To the second, yes. He came back, and did not receive his goods as they had been given away already and they refused to replace them. The sale was not completed.

    the sale was completed once the product left the care of the shop in their standard proceedure which as stated, is for the product to be left on the counter.

    Want a comparison? In Supervalu, you walk away after paying at the till for your shopping but without the food. The next customer bags your food with theirs and walks, who is at fault?

    Simple reality, the customer walked away and the premises offers no security on goods once they leave their hands.


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  • #121
    stefan.kuntz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 91 ✭✭stefan.kuntz


    TheChizler wrote: »
    Yes. OP we need to find out if Chinese, Irish, Italian, or Indian contract law applies!

    Indeed, and if it was pizza, was it Pepperoni?


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