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Does the Irish army do much to defend Ireland?

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13567…10

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    #62
    maudgonner
    Registered Users Posts: 5,455 ✭✭✭maudgonner


    eet fuk wrote: »
    We should go invading.
    Always the invadees, never the invaders. Let's get this empire rolling.


    Dibs on being Emperor! (or Empress, I suppose)


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    #63
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    Nobody cares about them until they need em,

    And as we live in the Republic of Ireland I would say job done


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    #64
    eet fuk
    Registered Users Posts: 263 ✭✭eet fuk


    maudgonner wrote: »
    Dibs on being Emperor! (or Empress, I suppose)

    I call Vice Emperor!

    No....wait...Junior Vice Emperor.


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    #65
    Slydice
    Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭Slydice


    Opened the thread so I could thank whoever had posted the Snatch reply:
    http://imgur.com/j3nTpJU


    5 pages in and nothing.

    Disappointed After Hours. You've changed.


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    #66
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,629 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Slydice wrote: »
    Opened the thread so I could thank whoever had posted the Snatch reply:
    http://imgur.com/j3nTpJU


    5 pages in and nothing.

    Disappointed After Hours. You've changed.

    Well for the year that's in it we'd rather not hear any jokes about our gallant allies in Europe


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    #67
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,771 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    eet fuk wrote: »
    We should go invading.
    Always the invadees, never the invaders. Let's get this empire rolling.
    Here's a simple plan. Lets declare war on the US.

    Then after they defeat us they'll give us lots of money to rebuild. Loads of construction jobs.

    What could possibly go wrong ?


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    #68
    Nekarsulm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,194 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    The Army has disappeared. Cavan Barracks, a specialized newly built compound closed. Proposed 3rd level campus.
    Longford Barracks, closed. Now used for local Vintage club meetings, etc.
    Monaghan Barracks, closed. Now a 3rd level campus.
    Mullingar. Closed.
    All relocated to Athlone.
    So you have soldiers based in Athlone but with home and family in Cavan, who aren't paid enough to cover the daily motoring costs. Some sleep in their cars overnight in Athlone rather than go home. Some way to build Morale.


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    #69
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    The Army has disappeared. Cavan Barracks, a specialized newly built compound closed. Proposed 3rd level campus.
    Longford Barracks, closed. Now used for local Vintage club meetings, etc.
    Monaghan Barracks, closed. Now a 3rd level campus.
    Mullingar. Closed.
    All relocated to Athlone.
    So you have soldiers based in Athlone but with home and family in Cavan, who aren't paid enough to cover the daily motoring costs. Some sleep in their cars overnight in Athlone rather than go home. Some way to build Morale.
    Why is there need for regional camps? Just an expensive unnecessarity.


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    #70
    animaal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 815 ✭✭✭animaal


    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    So you have soldiers based in Athlone but with home and family in Cavan, who aren't paid enough to cover the daily motoring costs. Some sleep in their cars overnight in Athlone rather than go home. Some way to build Morale.

    I've heard this before, and it saddens me.

    In this country, we have a small, professional army. Rather than conscription, we have far more applicants than available positions. The army is in a position to pick and choose the best recruits. Plenty of countries don't have that luxury. I'd argue that this quality is what facilitates Ireland's reputation and success in peacekeeping missions.

    I'm surprised that people with concern for the "most vulnerable" don't appreciate what we (through our armed forces) do for the truly vulnerable of the world. As somebody else mentioned earlier, it benefits ourselves in the long run.

    The fact that our armed force is small means that we should be in a position to equip and pay it to a decent level, without bankrupting the whole place.


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    #71
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    animaal wrote: »
    I've heard this before, and it saddens me.

    In this country, we have a small, professional army. Rather than conscription, we have far more applicants than available positions. The army is in a position to pick and choose the best recruits. Plenty of countries don't have that luxury. I'd argue that this quality is what facilitates Ireland's reputation and success in peacekeeping missions.

    I'm surprised that people with concern for the "most vulnerable" don't appreciate what we (through our armed forces) do for the truly vulnerable of the world. As somebody else mentioned earlier, it benefits ourselves in the long run.

    The fact that our armed force is small means that we should be in a position to equip and pay it to a decent level, without bankrupting the whole place.
    Implying UN presence in countries like Chad or Israel is always welcome and always provides a calming effect.


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    #72
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    eet fuk wrote: »
    I call Vice Emperor!

    No....wait...Junior Vice Emperor.

    I just want to be Emperor of Vices generally.


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    #73
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Why is there need for regional camps? Just an expensive unnecessarity.

    Clientism for the most part.


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    #74
    Nekarsulm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,194 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Why is there need for regional camps? Just an expensive unnecessarity.

    So why withdraw from our only land frontier and concentrate in Athlone?
    Custume Barracks is a typical 1800's stone built barracks, both Cavan and Monaghan were built in the late 20th century. Dun na Neil was a mid 1980's complex which replaced a Victorian structure which resembled something out of Dickens. What a waste of resources!


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    #75
    animaal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 815 ✭✭✭animaal


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Implying UN presence in countries like Chad or Israel is always welcome and always provides a calming effect.

    Fair enough, but we're discussing the Irish army rather than UN policy. Do you think those places would be better off if the UN replaced the Irish personnel with troops from somewhere like the US, the UK or Russia?


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    #76
    Supernintento Chalmers
    Registered Users Posts: 566 ✭✭✭Supernintento Chalmers


    Bomb disposal, protecting cash in transit vans and anti-terrorist work can and is done by the Gardai.

    Our Army is a joke and nothing but a token gesture and a costly one but that.
    They should cut it down to about 50 people, for using in the Patrick's Day parade and the like.


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    #77
    cajonlardo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭cajonlardo


    Supernintento Chalmers wrote: »
    Bomb disposal, protecting cash in transit vans and anti-terrorist work can and is done by the Gardai.

    Our Army is a joke and nothing but a token gesture and a costly one but that.
    They should cut it down to about 50 people, for using in the Patrick's Day parade and the like.


    The Gardai have not got the experience to tackle ied disposal.

    And they never will have. What personal experience have you to comment on EOD as a matter of interest?

    EDIT : Also can you comment on how you'd fund Garda pay with overtime as opposed to a Soldier on a fixed wage? Question has been asked several times in this thread but no answers?


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    #78
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    So why withdraw from our only land frontier and concentrate in Athlone?
    Custume Barracks is a typical 1800's stone built barracks, both Cavan and Monaghan were built in the late 20th century. Dun na Neil was a mid 1980's complex which replaced a Victorian structure which resembled something out of Dickens. What a waste of resources!

    Why would you want to station the army at the border? Do you anticipate an invasion of the United Kingdom?

    The barracks are being used as third level campuses in Cavan and Monaghan? A far better use of resources than housing soldiers.


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    #79
    Nekarsulm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,194 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    Given that the point of an army is to secure a countries borders, defend against subversives/private armies etc the fact that the general area of our land border with NI meets both criteria, it would seem reasonable to have a base midway between Finner Camp and Co.Louth.
    The Navy, under resourced and toothless as it is, has some capability on our water's, while our air force is a joke. When Russian bombers were running dummy bombing exercises over our airspace we didn't even know they were there. We had to rely on the neighbours to keep us informed.


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    #80
    Luckyfran
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭Luckyfran


    No they drive jeeps with silly aerials. Should be a civil defence force thats all they are


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    #81
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,165 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    When Russian bombers were running dummy bombing exercises over our airspace we didn't even know they were there. We had to rely on the neighbours to keep us informed.

    Not that it really matters but it would be nice to see the PDF have at least a few mobile SAM platforms as a mild deterrent. But then I suppose we'd need the facility to actually monitor our airspace and there's no hope of enough coppers for that.


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    #82
    questionmark?
    Registered Users Posts: 3,071 ✭✭✭questionmark?


    Supernintento Chalmers wrote: »
    Bomb disposal, protecting cash in transit vans and anti-terrorist work can and is done by the Gardai.

    Our Army is a joke and nothing but a token gesture and a costly one but that.
    They should cut it down to about 50 people, for using in the Patrick's Day parade and the like.

    It's rubbish like this from the ill informed that creates a poor image for a lot of people. The navy plays an important role in protecting our shores, they are under resourced though. The army has many important roles, bomb disposal, great image on UN missions protecting vulnerable people in the world, as well as providing civic duties like armed protection of the IRA prison in Portlaoise and helping with the flooding.

    Another poster mentioned our air force is a joke, we don't have an air force we have an air corps which is a completely differant function.


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    #83
    cajonlardo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭cajonlardo


    Luckyfran wrote: »
    No they drive jeeps with silly aerials. Should be a civil defence force thats all they are

    Hasn't been a jeep around the pdf since the 50's

    What is a "Silly Aerial"? is it different from an "Intelligent Aerial"? :D

    Who in the Civil Defense could pull this off?



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    #84
    Luckyfran
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭Luckyfran


    Ive only ever seeing the army in topaz cashel and doing security duty on CIT vans bit of a joke tbh


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    #85
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,889 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Didn't the army stop cash in transit escorts 2 years ago?

    For the money the army gets it does a good job. The problem is that the job isn't defined correctly as the job of an army is defence or attack, which with its current equipment it can't do and no one is willing to pay the extra taxes to let it. It's more like a civil defence / militia in it's current setup and needs to be reorganised with proper roles and equipment, but it'll just role along as is as no one has any idea of what they actually want it to do or spend the money to allow it do what it's supposed to.

    At least it's better than the so called air force. A handful of fast jet trainers, when we'll never have fast jets. A few civilian spec helicopters. A couple of biz jets for ministerial transport and air ambulance. A couple of maritime surveillance aircraft, when we have the biggest maritime area in Europe! A a fist full of surveillance aircraft. No ability to move are own troops or equipment anywhere.

    At least they bought the navy a few modern vessels.


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    #86
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    Given that the point of an army is to secure a countries borders, defend against subversives/private armies etc the fact that the general area of our land border with NI meets both criteria, it would seem reasonable to have a base midway between Finner Camp and Co.Louth.
    The Navy, under resourced and toothless as it is, has some capability on our water's, while our air force is a joke. When Russian bombers were running dummy bombing exercises over our airspace we didn't even know they were there. We had to rely on the neighbours to keep us informed.

    The camp in Athlone is more than sufficient for the army. We could enter into an agreement with the British to protect our air borders for a fraction of the cost of doing it ourselves.


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    #87
    cajonlardo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭cajonlardo


    Luckyfran wrote: »
    Ive only ever seeing the army in topaz cashel and doing security duty on CIT vans bit of a joke tbh

    You are completely ignorant of the work of the EOD (bomb disposal)?

    You are entirely oblivious to the work carried out during the floods?

    You never read about a vital organ flight from a foreign country?

    You are unaware that when the Ambulance service strike that soldiers transport patients

    You haven't watched a news report about Irish Soldiers on active service in Lebanon, Liberia, Sierra Leone, Chad, Kosovo (Insert applicable choice of Hell Hole..)


    You know what? I believe you are liar.


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    #88
    Luckyfran
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭Luckyfran


    cajonlardo wrote: »
    You are completely ignorant of the work of the EOD (bomb disposal)?

    You are entirely oblivious to the work carried out during the floods?

    You never read about a vital organ flight from a foreign country?

    You are unaware that when the Ambulance service strike that soldiers transport patients

    You haven't watched a news report about Irish Soldiers on active service in Lebanon, Liberia, Sierra Leone, Chad, Kosovo (Insert applicable choice of Hell Hole..)


    You know what? I believe you are liar.
    Civil or private companies can do all of the above bar the UN jobs


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    #89
    cajonlardo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭cajonlardo


    Luckyfran wrote: »
    Ive only ever seeing the army in topaz cashel and doing security duty on CIT vans bit of a joke tbh
    Luckyfran wrote: »
    Civil or private companies can do all of the above bar the UN jobs


    That wasn't your smarmy comment though was it?

    So, you admit you were just lying in your first post and you aren't actually that ignorant. We'll move on.

    Can you introduce me to the civvies who have the same experience and record of i.e.d disposal as Irish Army engineers? I'd like to meet them.

    I will pose this question for the umpteenth time.
    You detail a soldier to get a job done and he does the job. If it takes a hundred hours or it takes ten hours his pay remains the same.
    If you ask a civvie to do the same job how much will overtime cost and are you prepared to pay it?


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    #90
    Luckyfran
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭Luckyfran


    Public workers lol..... join the luas drivers. Ye a paid very well for doing what a private sector worker would call 'feck all'


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    #91
    Terrontress
    Registered Users Posts: 3,888 ✭✭✭Terrontress


    Isn't there an obligation to have an army as part of our EU membership.

    Once that's the case then you have to find something for them to do. Floods, cash in transit, washed up flares are all civilian in their nature, but it gives the army something to do and that's not a bad thing.


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