Does the Irish army do much to defend Ireland?

Dots1982

Don't want to blackguard the army but really I have not much understanding of what they actually do?

I'm not really interested in UN peacekeeping.

I'll ask the question this way: If we lost the guards overnight there would be anarchy, what would happen if we lost the Army?

maxwell smart

What would happen if we lost the Army?

We'd have to get the UK army / airforce to come and help us look for them I imagine?

Lights On

Have you seen the new Mad Max movie? That would happen.

billie1b

There would be 12,000 or so more people on the dole and the rest of us would continue our daily lives as normal. They dont really do anything for Ireland

ssshhh123

Just the army or the defence forces? They do atca Ie flooding gorse fires snow. Atcp is the escorts. Port laoise prison. Maratime patrols. Eod bomb clearance. Just to name a few

Junkyard Tom

Defend Ireland from what?

jimgoose

Lights On wrote: »

Have you seen the new Mad Max movie? That would happen.

'Twould, and quare live-lah. I'm actually the chap played by Hugh Keays-Byrne in that docu-drama, except I'm not anything like as old as him. Gowls!!

Nodin

Dots1982 wrote: »

Don't want to blackguard the army but really I have not much understanding of what they actually do?

I'm not really interested in UN peacekeeping.

I'll ask the question this way: If we lost the guards overnight there would be anarchy, what would happen if we lost the Army?

Jokes at our expense, I'd say. Personally I wouldn't fancy slogging over the curragh with a flashlight trying to find them.

Sheep Lover

They'd raid the National Armory of its two shotguns and 5 hurls, jump into the ATV (Army Transit Van) and ready themselves to defend the country.

hmmm

The Irish army has spent most of its existence protecting the State from internal threats e.g. the IRA and their offshoots - that's why you see army protection of cash delivery vans.

They might not be needed just right now, but I'd hate to think that if we ever got rid of them we'd be almost defenseless against armed Republicans.

unjedilike

Junkyard Tom wrote:

Defend Ireland from what?

The Vikings, of course

Buona Fortuna

Dots1982 wrote: »

Don't want to blackguard the army but really I have not much understanding of what they actually do?

I'm not really interested in UN peacekeeping.

I'll ask the question this way: If we lost the guards overnight there would be anarchy, what would happen if we lost the Army?

Are they not protecting Ireland by making a safer world that we all live in.

Despite your indifference to peacekeeping isn't there a certain amount of self interest in carrying them out?

Dots1982

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Defend Ireland from what?

Terrorists both domestic and foreign, criminals? Do they assist or is this completely a matter for the police?

Or do they serve any social benefit like i guess if there is a national weather emergency like flooding they help out sometimes?

Take the question: What happens if they just disappeared oversight?

maxwell smart

billie1b wrote: »

There would be 12,000 or so more people on the dole and the rest of us would continue our daily lives as normal. They dont really do anything for Ireland

So what your saying is that instead of taxpayers money bring used to pay for their basic pay, overtime, equipment, general upkeep etc (2015 estimate €885m pa) you would suggest they all go on the dole (average of, say, €250 each per week = €156m pa)????

Is that what you are suggesting? That we would save €729m??

have you spoke to Enda or Joan about this one? They might be interested!

Gerry and Mary Lou certainly would!!

Dots1982

When was the last time any one Irish said, "thank god for our Army" or "if it hadn't been for the army I don't know what would have happened"?

maudgonner

Dots1982 wrote: »

When was the last time any one Irish said, "thank god for our Army" or "if it hadn't been for the army I don't know what would have happened"?

During the floods I'd imagine.

Dots1982

maudgonner wrote: »

During the floods I'd imagine.

that's what id imagine also...that's probably about it...were they employed during the floods recently?

It wasn't me!

Dots1982 wrote: »

When was the last time any one Irish said, "thank god for our Army" or "if it hadn't been for the army I don't know what would have happened"?

A couple of weeks ago after we spent several months with troops working 24 hours a day doing emergency support during the floods?

maudgonner

Dots1982 wrote: »

that's what id imagine also...that's probably about it...were they employed during the floods recently?

Yes.

(I'm sure there are many more examples, that's just from a quick Google.)

Dots1982

It wasn't me! wrote: »

A couple of weeks ago after we spent several months with troops working 24 hours a day doing emergency support during the floods?

What do they do when there isn't a national emergency and they are in the country? How many are just in their barracks ...doing

The Randy Riverbeast

They stop the king of England from coming into your house and pushing you around

maudgonner

Dots1982 wrote: »

What do they do when there isn't a national emergency and they are in the country? How many are just in their barracks ...doing

How about the recent bomb threat in Apple? The EOD team (bomb squad) were deployed to sweep and clear the building. As they are before major sporting events, visits of foreign dignitaries etc. I'm sure they had an involvement in the gangland funerals in Dublin this week.

salmocab

This is really an odd question regards the army, if you asked it in america people would go ape sh1t however they are as unlikely as we are to be invaded but really thats not relevant, the military has plenty of functions and has really moved on from defending the country against other countries now its more defending against terrorism and even natural forces.

Dots1982

maudgonner wrote: »

How about the recent bomb threat in Apple? The EOD team (bomb squad) were deployed to sweep and clear the building. As they are before major sporting events, visits of foreign dignitaries etc. I'm sure they had an involvement in the gangland funerals in Dublin this week.

Yeah maybe, not sure if many were actually involved though? I don't remember seeing them on the streets for any of these, maybe when the queen came but largely its the police id think.

Dots1982

salmocab wrote: »

This is really an odd question regards the army, if you asked it in america people would go ape sh1t however they are as unlikely as we are to be invaded but really thats not relevant, the military has plenty of functions and has really moved on from defending the country against other countries now its more defending against terrorism and even natural forces.

I don't think its an odd question at all but then again I asked it so I would think that.

salmocab

Dots1982 wrote: »

I don't think its an odd question at all but then again I asked it so I would think that.

What I meant was that people think of the military from historic points of view where they were there to either attack other states or defend against invasion but that really they now have different functions in most western states.

It wasn't me!

Dots1982 wrote: »

What do they do when there isn't a national emergency and they are in the country? How many are just in their barracks ...doing

... doing physical training, preparation for or going on tactical exercises, refreshing of skills and learning of new skills, weapons systems, driving courses on different vehicles, 24 hour security duties across the state guarding vital interests, escorting prisoners to and from court, regular call outs to real or suspected IEDs.

This week I'll be doing over 75 hours in work, with no overtime and a 24 hour security duty bonus of about €27, bringing my total earnings to a princely €393.

maudgonner

Dots1982 wrote: »

Yeah maybe, not sure if many were actually involved though? I don't remember seeing them on the streets for any of these, maybe when the queen came but largely its the police id think.

The police (Gardaí) don't have a bomb squad afaik, so not sure what you're getting at here.

I used the bomb squad as an example because I happen to know a former member. The point is that until I met him I had very little idea that the unit even existed, let alone what they do. (They spend a lot of their time dealing with marine flares that wash up on our coastline, for what it's worth). I'm sure that there are many more units that have valuable roles to play that I know nothing about.

I'm sure there is a lot of waste in the Army, but that's the nature of the job in a way - they have to have spare capacity and spend a lot of time training for what might happen, because if it does happen, they need to be available to respond immediately - not spend years ramping up resources & training.

uck51js9zml2yt

Dots1982 wrote: »

Terrorists both domestic and foreign, criminals? Do they assist or is this completely a matter for the police?

Or do they serve any social benefit like i guess if there is a national weather emergency like flooding they help out sometimes?

Take the question: What happens if they just disappeared oversight?

They were very active in flood defences in the last few months.
They also guard cash in transit, diffuse bombs and protect us against armed terrorist groups.
There is currently a large contingent in lebenon keeping the peace and the bad guys at bay.
Over the years they have been key forces in Kosovo, Eritrea, chad, Liberia,israel and a few other African states.
They also guard the border though not as visible since the cease fire.
If they were disbanded we would be open to all sorts of threats. Having them makes the bad guys think twice!
I forgot to mention the explosives factory in a certain part of the state which they guard.

Hammer89

As far as I know, they take pictures of themselves assembling machine guns that they're never, ever, ever, ever going to use and then upload them on Facebook.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

billie1b wrote: »

There would be 12,000 or so more people on the dole and the rest of us would continue our daily lives as normal. They dont really do anything for Ireland

Well it's obvious you, and a lot of other people in this thread, haven't a clue about the roles of the Irish Army.

The EOD are called out about 150 times in 2014. About 50 of those callouts involved viable devices, designed to cause injury or death.

They escort prisoners, which, in my eyes, is a fantastic use for the military. Considering there's so few members in the ERU and armed guards in general. I believe armed Gardai (excluding the ERU) only carry pistols. Not very effective against automatic firearms.

They also provide security escort for cash transit. Another essential service as if you ask me.

Security for VIP visits.

Involved in search and rescue.

Preventing the trafficing of people, drugs and arms.

Helping with the floods.

Don't let that get in the way of a good rant though.

jimgoose

These days no standing army in the Western world at any rate does much in the way of defending the realm, as 'twere. One function is to provide a means for a sovereign state to exert it's will, however symbolically that may be. As pointed out, it may function in conjunction with other forces to "keep the peace", enforce UN policy, call it what you will. Also, they are the last - and most formidable - line of defence for the populace against those who would live under Jungle Law. They can Steven Seagal or .50-cal your bitch-arse if they want to!

jimgoose

Hammer89 wrote: »

As far as I know, they take pictures of themselves assembling machine guns that they're never, ever, ever, ever going to use and then upload them on Facebook.

The amount of FCA types I've encountered giving it the full Rambo with a Brno-Enfield would beg to differ!

NiallBoo

Surely there'd be more benefit to the country if you took what you put into the military and redistributed into the coast-guard and the Gardai?

Ok, so you'd pretty-much be turning the Navy into the coast guard...so not much change there.

The gardai could certainly take on roles that the army do and you'd have enough left over for an enhanced day-to-day service.

Iwasfrozen

The Irish army shot Provos. That makes them worth every penny in my book.

ShoulderChip

I thought they defend Ireland from the snakes that St Patrick got rid of no? well they haven't come back so someone is doing a sterling job.

Iwasfrozen

Sabrina Calm Clergy wrote: »

Well it's obvious you, and a lot of other people in this thread, haven't a clue about the roles of the Irish Army.

The EOD are called out about 150 times in 2014. About 50 of those callouts involved viable devices, designed to cause injury or death.

They escort prisoners, which, in my eyes, is a fantastic use for the military. Considering there's so few members in the ERU and armed guards in general. I believe armed Gardai (excluding the ERU) only carry pistols. Not very effective against automatic firearms.

They also provide security escort for cash transit. Another essential service as if you ask me.

Security for VIP visits.

Involved in search and rescue.

Preventing the trafficing of people, drugs and arms.

Helping with the floods.

Don't let that get in the way of a good rant though.

All of that would be better done by an armed Garda force.

ShoulderChip

Sabrina Calm Clergy wrote: »

Well it's obvious you, and a lot of other people in this thread, haven't a clue about the roles of the Irish Army.

The EOD are called out about 150 times in 2014. About 50 of those callouts involved viable devices, designed to cause injury or death.

They escort prisoners, which, in my eyes, is a fantastic use for the military. Considering there's so few members in the ERU and armed guards in general. I believe armed Gardai (excluding the ERU) only carry pistols. Not very effective against automatic firearms.

They also provide security escort for cash transit. Another essential service as if you ask me.

Security for VIP visits.

Involved in search and rescue.

Preventing the trafficing of people, drugs and arms.

Helping with the floods.

Don't let that get in the way of a good rant though.

Sounds like the concierge in my apartment building tbh

It wasn't me!

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

All of that would be better done by an armed Garda force.

On what basis do you say that?

cajonlardo

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

All of that would be better done by an armed Garda force.

Come back to me when you have an idea how that would cost in Garda overtime and expenses compared to the wages of a soldier.

Iwasfrozen

cajonlardo wrote: »

Come back to me when you have an idea how that would cost in Garda overtime and expenses compared to the wages of a soldier.

Who said overtime? There are 7.5k soldiers, we could replace their function with 5k armed guards for less cost.

the_syco

The english army would appear in the other 26 counties, as just like last time; someone would invite them in, and no-one would be able to make them leave.

aaakev

The irish army bomb disposal unit is one of the best in the world, So much so that they were training US teams heading to Afghanistan. As was already said they were called out well over 100 times last year and plenty of those times were for viable devices.

Our special forces are highly regarded throughout the world too, in fact a ranger sniper team recently won the world championship beating US and UK special forces teams. things they do to protect the country you will never hear about but you can be guaranteed things are done.

Cash escorts and the prison runs are definitely a good service they provide.

Id much rather them be there than not

cajonlardo

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Who said overtime? There are 7.5k soldiers, we could replace their function with 5k armed guards for less cost.

Soldiers do not get overtime, so they can work any amount of hours. And they do.

Gardai get paid overtime. How do you propose to fund that?

diomed

They stopped the English from invading and taking our wimmin and turf. 100% successful so far.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

All of that would be better done by an armed Garda force.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Who said overtime? There are 7.5k soldiers, we could replace their function with 5k armed guards for less cost.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. You just picked a figure, then picked a smaller finger and hey presto, we have a "fact"... conjured out of thin air.

Do you have any idea how much a 3* PTE makes per week basic?

animaal

Policing and military roles aren't inter-changeable.

There have been times around the world when countries have drafted in their armies to perform policing duties. It generally doesn't work well - they require very different mindsets and skill sets. Likewise, I wouldn't expect gardai to perform military functions well.

As well as the tasks the army do carry out, they have another major function - deterrence. Over the years, there have been a number of armed organisations that didn't accept the validity of this state. I wouldn't like to think what the outcome might have been if we didn't have a well-trained armed force.

While many of those organisations have stood down, I find it hard to believe that all ex-members have changed their minds about this state, and have no access to weapons.

Fratton Fred

aaakev wrote: »

Our special forces are highly regarded throughout the world too, in fact a ranger sniper team recently won the world championship beating US and UK special forces teams. things they do to protect the country you will never hear about but you can be guaranteed things are done.

That's what I find bizarre about the defence force. We have a highly trained and respected Ranger Wing, ready to deploy at a moment's notice anywhere in the world, but no actual means of getting them there.

The army and navy have defined role that they carry out, whereas the air Corp are a cross between a mediocre display team and a ministerial taxi service.

wendell borton

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Defend Ireland from what?

Muslamic ray guns and the queen of England.

John Doe1

They would be as effective as the ballymuck neighbourhood watch if an invasion occurred.

Nodin

Dots1982 wrote: »

When was the last time any one Irish said, "thank god for our Army" or "if it hadn't been for the army I don't know what would have happened"?

Presumably somebody whose property was protected by their work during the floods.