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Does the Irish army do much to defend Ireland?

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    #152
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    It wasn't me! wrote: »
    You've said that repeatedly, but without actually backing it up with the relevant costs and where savings might be made. I'd like to see some evidence, and I'd also contend that military and policing approaches and roles are disparate enough that, funnily enough, other countries aren't rolling them together en masse. Might be something to that...
    The gendarmerie? Militarized police? You never heard of those guys?


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    #153
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Pugzilla wrote: »
    Our air defense system is non-existent, we're dependent on the UK as it is. Any country with a real air force could bomb us with impunity.

    Not sure how you measure what a "real" air force is, but there are plenty of countries with a "real" airforce that haven't bombed us, with impunity, I wonder why. What makes you think anybody could invade or bomb us with impunity?

    We also have the ADR which size matches that of the threat of an air strike, miniscule. So both of your points in this post are completely null and void.

    Your previous posts on the matter are severely lacking information. There's no logic behind your suggestions. Using words such as legitimately, don't make your statements legitmate.

    Giving "non-combat" (whatever the F that is) roles over to the Garda reserve? Do you want members of the Garda reserve disarming bombs? Or is that a "combat" orientated role? What about cash escorts, prison escorts? You do know that the Garda reserve are volunteers, volunteers that may be in fulltime education or fulltime employment.

    You are suggesting we make so many thousands unemployed, many of which have specialised training in a specialised field. Move those roles to another section of the public services, which is already understaffed and underpayed (they can't deal with public demand as it is, not by a long shot ffs), then waste god knows how much money and time training the Garda reserve up to the same skill level as the Army personal you just fired? Where's the logic in that?

    Do you wish to disband the ARW too? Or will we leave those lads alone?
    Pugzilla wrote: »
    Only people that go into the army are those that can't get a job anywhere else.

    Your disdain for the Irish military is disgusting at best, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about, and it's opinions like the ones you hold of the Irish military that have starved the force of resources and funding. People crying to cut something they have no idea about. What job do you work in that makes you think you are so high and mighty?


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    #154
    It wasn't me!
    Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    The gendarmerie? Militarized police? You never heard of those guys?

    I have indeed. They're not a mililtary and aren't capable of the same range of taskings that the army is, which is, funnily enough, why France maintains a standing army alongside them. Now, you quoted the whole post, so let's have answers to the rest of it.


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    #155
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I haven't seen one thing on this thread apart from UN peacekeeping missions that couldn't be done cheaper by militarized police wing. Think French style gendarmerie.

    Do you have any figures to back up your claim or is it just glorified guesswork?


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    #156
    discus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭discus


    Jimlh86 wrote: »
    Domestically what do they do? (Not a dig but a serious question) I know they do massive work come flood time but aside from that? The cash escorts have been withdrawn which is madness, Gardai are not properly trained to deploy from their vehicles when stationary! Would be sitting ducks for an automatic weapon

    Edit: sorry bomb disposal, a vital service and very much appreciated

    That's a great question and one worth serious consideration!

    Countries get their reputation on many things. GDP, corruption and education are three big ones. Ireland does well in all 3, believe it or not! But keep in mind that when a corporation decides to move here, they are investing 10+ years in us. Now, imagine what can change in 10 years. Sure syria was stable bet oil wise 5 years ago. Eygpt was a certain tourism hotspot. Ukraine was up and coming for eastern european tech. Having a steady country that isn't going to go tits-up in the face of a rebellion is an important factor, and a loyal/professional army is tantamount to maintanance of such an environment.

    Also, the Irish permanent defence forces maintain our fishing zones. A huge source of money for us. More important than any fossil fuel that we can suck out of the ground! Sure it feeds us, provides jobs and we get some exports out of it at the end of the day, Thats worth fighting for.

    So, political stability and fishing rights aside, what else do they do?

    Well, the army provides the man power for the aid to civil power, when our civic structure falls foul to strikes and such. That's pretty important, given how reliant we are on 3rd party contractors to provide our transport, waste disposal and such! And the army just get on with it. I wish they didn't have to, but they have even kept our jails running to this very day. Not to mention the man-hunts they have helped out on. An Irish Army private was killed by republican-types, when even civilian dentists (google it, Dr O'Grady) were being kidnapped for ransom. That brings a tear to my eye every now and again, when I realise how much some citizens have given for the rest of us to live in a pretty safe country.

    Thankless job, its mundane but somehow, we manage to train them to do the worst, without any public show of thanks.


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    #157
    discus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭discus


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I haven't seen one thing on this thread apart from UN peacekeeping missions that couldn't be done cheaper by militarized police wing. Think French style gendarmerie.

    Tell us more about your vast experience in peacekeeping, policing and or military operations!!! :)


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    #158
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    It wasn't me! wrote: »
    I have indeed. They're not a mililtary and aren't capable of the same range of taskings that the army is, which is, funnily enough, why France maintains a standing army alongside them. Now, you quoted the whole post, so let's have answers to the rest of it.

    They don't need to match the full range of services of the French army. Our current army can't match the full range of services of the French army. All this gendarmerie wing would need to do is fulfil all the domestic roles of our current army. I would envisage 6k men to be plenty but less is probably viable.


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    #159
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,987 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    anyone who suggests we don't need an army haven't a clue. we do need an army for the various functions they cary out which have been all ready mentioned. our boys do great work and they will be shown respect.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #160
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    The idea of a militarised police wing is a good one. It would solve the problem of the Gangland killers what with specialised and heavy weapon patrol squads taking out the snr gang leaders. They wouldn't have to be all over the place like in the old days when the Gardaí were keeping an eye on the General just sitting on the sidelines monitoring the criminals instead they could actively pursue the underworld which is involved in drug dealing, prostitution, human trafficking and welfare fraud. They would have the equipment to take them out.


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    #161
    It wasn't me!
    Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    They don't need to match the full range of services of the French army. Our current army can't match the full range of services of the French army. All this gendarmerie wing would need to do is fulfil all the domestic roles of our current army. I would envisage 6k men to be plenty but less is probably viable.

    And now the costings please. You're adamant that it would be cheaper, so prove it. (This is still asssuming we accept your assertion that that's all we require, which I for one don't)


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    #162
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,987 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    The gendarmerie? Militarized police? You never heard of those guys?

    yes . our army is much better thanks.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #163
    discus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭discus


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    They don't need to match the full range of services of the French army. Our current army can't match the full range of services of the French army. All this gendarmerie wing would need to do is fulfil all the domestic roles of our current army. I would envisage 6k men to be plenty but less is probably viable.
    Rough costings please ;)


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    #164
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    It wasn't me! wrote: »
    And now the costings please. You're adamant that it would be cheaper, so prove it. (This is still asssuming we accept your assertion that that's all we require, which I for one don't)

    Less people, less equipment, less ranks and no foreign tours = cheaper.


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    #165
    lucky frank lives
    Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭lucky frank lives


    The problem is any aul thick can sign up 4d army . Thats my issue


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    #166
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    They don't need to match the full range of services of the French army. Our current army can't match the full range of services of the French army. All this gendarmerie wing would need to do is fulfil all the domestic roles of our current army. I would envisage 6k men to be plenty but less is probably viable.

    You just pulled that figure ot of your arse. How in the hell did you come to 6K? It just felt right?

    So much walter mitty in this thread...


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    #167
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,987 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Less people, less equipment, less ranks and no foreign tours = cheaper.

    how. where do the savings come from? how much would be saved?
    lucky frank lives wrote: »
    The problem is any aul thick can sign up 4d army . Thats my issue

    i would doubt that very much. even if it was the case, chances are they wouldn't get through the relevant tests and so on that the army may use to pick out the best candidates.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #168
    discus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭discus


    lucky frank lives wrote: »
    The problem is any aul thick can sign up 4d army . Thats my issue


    Well yes, you get a whole spectrum of people signing up... from all over the intellectual spectrum. What's the problem?


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    #169
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    The idea of a militarised police wing is a good one. It would solve the problem of the Gangland killers what with specialised and heavy weapon patrol squads taking out the snr gang leaders. They wouldn't have to be all over the place like in the old days when the Gardaí were keeping an eye on the General just sitting on the sidelines monitoring the criminals instead they could actively pursue the underworld which is involved in drug dealing, prostitution, human trafficking and welfare fraud. They would have the equipment to take them out.

    There's the ERU. There's no need for heavy weapons. It's not a warzone. Also, you want heavy weapon patrols to tackle welfare fraud? Mother of god...
    lucky frank lives wrote: »
    The problem is any aul thick can sign up 4d army . Thats my issue

    You're wrong. There's criteria which must be passed in order for somebody to be eligible. There are medical examinations, eye/hearing tests. While there is no IQ test, there's "thicks" in every bloody job on the planet. Private and public sector.


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    #170
    lucky frank lives
    Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭lucky frank lives


    discus wrote: »
    Well yes, you get a whole spectrum of people signing up... from all over the intellectual spectrum. What's the problem?

    Lads that i know decent skins would gravitate towards the army ye understand


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    #171
    discus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭discus


    lucky frank lives wrote: »
    Lads that i know decent skins would gravitate towards the army ye understand

    I hope their grammar is better than yours, ye get m' laaaaaddd?


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    #172
    Pugzilla
    Site Banned Posts: 1,765 ✭✭✭Pugzilla


    How much do we contribute in terms of numbers to UN peacekeeping?

    F all.

    So the Army exists as glorified international PR campaign?


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    #173
    lucky frank lives
    Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭lucky frank lives


    discus wrote: »
    I hope their grammar is better than yours, ye get m' laaaaaddd?

    Me two kid


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    #174
    Pugzilla
    Site Banned Posts: 1,765 ✭✭✭Pugzilla


    discus wrote: »
    Well yes, you get a whole spectrum of people signing up... from all over the intellectual spectrum. What's the problem?

    The problems is that they carry automatic weapons.


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    #175
    lucky frank lives
    Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭lucky frank lives


    ��


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    #176
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Pugzilla wrote: »
    How much do we contribute in terms of numbers to UN peacekeeping?

    F all.

    So the Army exists as glorified international PR campaign?

    Every post you submit is a guess. There's absolutely zero logic in your suggestions. You just have this idea that the Irish Military is useless and should be disbanded, there's no reasoning behind your thought and I have no idea how you have come to this conclusion. If you are going to make some suggestions, would you at least make the time to inform yourself of what you are talking about at least? It's getting incredibly boring at this stage and your posts are coming accross as incredibly weak.

    Not sure about how many personal are serving now or have served in the past, but I know there has been too many deaths overseas.

    Here's a link to the overseas section on the military.ie site. You couldn't be bothered googling it so I did that much for you, however I won't read it for you, you can do that much yourself.

    http://www.military.ie/overseas/organisation/


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    #177
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Pugzilla wrote: »
    The problems is that they carry automatic weapons.

    And you want to move the domestic roles over to the Garda Reserve. Is there an IQ test for the Garda Reserve? You're tripping over yourself. Quick, backtrack while there's still time.


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    #178
    lucky frank lives
    Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭lucky frank lives


    discus wrote: »
    I hope their grammar is better than yours, ye get m' laaaaaddd?

    Bell end


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    #179
    Pugzilla
    Site Banned Posts: 1,765 ✭✭✭Pugzilla


    Sabrina Calm Clergy wrote: »
    And you want to move the domestic roles over to the Garda Reserve. Is there an IQ test for the Garda Reserve? You're tripping over yourself. Quick, backtrack while there's still time.

    Look back dunkoff, I proposed that the reserves take over non combat duties.


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    #180
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Pugzilla wrote: »
    Look back dunkoff, I proposed that the reserves take over non combat duties.

    Which doesn't make any sense as I pointed out earlier. Either way, can you show the correlation between IQ and inability to use a gun safely after proper training? Irregardless, contrary to your belief, the Army doesn't take on people they believe are not suited to the role.

    You are just speculating and making assumptions, based on... i'm not sure, but there's no fact behind your posts only misinformation.


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    #181
    Pugzilla
    Site Banned Posts: 1,765 ✭✭✭Pugzilla


    Sabrina Calm Clergy wrote: »
    Which doesn't make any sense as I pointed out earlier. Either way, can you show the correlation between IQ and inability to use a gun safely after proper training? Irregardless, contrary to your belief, the Army doesn't take on people they believe are not suited to the role.

    You are just speculating and making assumptions, based on... i'm not sure, but there's no fact behind your posts only misinformation.

    I'm supposed to take someone who plays Battlefield all day seriously on military issues in the real world?


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