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Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information


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Seeking advice in regard to Shooting ranges, licences, and Importing Firemarms

  • 12-01-2016 03:59AM
    #1
    FactualOrc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3 ✭


    Dear Forum,

    I am interested in getting into target shooting as a hobby, but a few questions/queries have come up that are causing a bit of confusion. I was hoping that they could be clarified here. They are as follows:

    1: I would like some assistance in finding a well facilitated shooting range near me (South Dublin) that caters for centrefire rifles, particularly the 30-30

    2: I was hoping to get a lever action as my first firearm chambered in 30-30, as I am interested in long range (relative to a lever action) shooting, but am aware that it seems to be an "oddball" round as far as Irish shooting goes. So I was wondering how that would work if the range didn't supply it and/or didn't allow me to bring my own ammo (assuming that it is even available at all in Ireland)

    3: I have been reviewing the procedures for obtaining a firearms licence and I have a few questions about that as well:
    a: In reference to the situation where a guard comes to your house, is that a one of
    thing or can they just pop over to my house whenever they want to check on my
    safes?
    b: Is there a medical assessment and how does it work? I have problems like everybody else, unfortunately though, my problems have labels attached to them so if someone is more in tune with the medical side of applying for a licence then please pm me as I am not sure if it would be wise to go flaunting my medical history on the internet.
    c: How hard would it be to go about the “good reason” for wanting a 30-30 lever action. In other words, how much leeway do they give you in terms of personal preference? I’d guess that the first thing they’d say to me when I tell them I want it for longish range target shooting is “Why not go for a bolt-action in a more suitable cartridge?” If I told them I like cowboy movies and the 30-30 is the closest I'm going to get to a long range cartridge, seeing as it can’t be a spitzer, would they be satisfied with that?

    4: The rifle I had in mind was a Marlin 336c chambered in the aforementioned 30-30. As far as I am aware (please correct me if I'm wrong) this particular rifle is not available in Ireland and I would have to import this. I would like to know the procedure for undertaking such a task. I’d assume it wouldn't be incredibly uncommon, would I just organise it with a dealer/my rifle club? I’d also imagine that it would add a hefty sum onto the MRSP of the rifle, what with vat and shipping. Could someone give me a rough estimate as to what expenses I’d be expected to pay on top of the MSRP in terms of percentage?

    Sorry for any lack of continuity in this post as some of the questions were not written in the order they appear. Anyway I think that’s all the questions I had. The thing is with this whole ordeal is that it’s hard to keep it all in your head at once, so I've probably forgotten something.

    Thanks in advance for your answers and I hope I get to know you guys a lot more as my ventures in this hobby unfold.

    /FactualOrc


Comments

  • #2
    goz83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,778 ✭✭✭goz83


    FactualOrc wrote: »
    Dear Forum,

    I am interested in getting into target shooting as a hobby, but a few questions/queries have come up that are causing a bit of confusion. I was hoping that they could be clarified here. They are as follows:

    1: I would like some assistance in finding a well facilitated shooting range near me (South Dublin) that caters for centrefire rifles, particularly the 30-30

    2: I was hoping to get a lever action as my first firearm chambered in 30-30, as I am interested in long range (relative to a lever action) shooting, but am aware that it seems to be an "oddball" round as far as Irish shooting goes. So I was wondering how that would work if the range didn't supply it and/or didn't allow me to bring my own ammo (assuming that it is even available at all in Ireland)

    3: I have been reviewing the procedures for obtaining a firearms licence and I have a few questions about that as well:
    a: In reference to the situation where a guard comes to your house, is that a one of
    thing or can they just pop over to my house whenever they want to check on my
    safes?
    b: Is there a medical assessment and how does it work? I have problems like everybody else, unfortunately though, my problems have labels attached to them so if someone is more in tune with the medical side of applying for a licence then please pm me as I am not sure if it would be wise to go flaunting my medical history on the internet.
    c: How hard would it be to go about the “good reason” for wanting a 30-30 lever action. In other words, how much leeway do they give you in terms of personal preference? I’d guess that the first thing they’d say to me when I tell them I want it for longish range target shooting is “Why not go for a bolt-action in a more suitable cartridge?” If I told them I like cowboy movies and the 30-30 is the closest I'm going to get to a long range cartridge, seeing as it can’t be a spitzer, would they be satisfied with that?

    4: The rifle I had in mind was a Marlin 336c chambered in the aforementioned 30-30. As far as I am aware (please correct me if I'm wrong) this particular rifle is not available in Ireland and I would have to import this. I would like to know the procedure for undertaking such a task. I’d assume it wouldn't be incredibly uncommon, would I just organise it with a dealer/my rifle club? I’d also imagine that it would add a hefty sum onto the MRSP of the rifle, what with vat and shipping. Could someone give me a rough estimate as to what expenses I’d be expected to pay on top of the MSRP in terms of percentage?

    Sorry for any lack of continuity in this post as some of the questions were not written in the order they appear. Anyway I think that’s all the questions I had. The thing is with this whole ordeal is that it’s hard to keep it all in your head at once, so I've probably forgotten something.

    Thanks in advance for your answers and I hope I get to know you guys a lot more as my ventures in this hobby unfold.

    /FactualOrc

    I'm in the process of applying, so from what I have learned, I will try to briefly answer yiur questions.

    1. Google is your friend here. I went onto google maps to see the local ranges. See what is close to you and phone them up. You'll find something that caters to long range shooters no doubt.

    2. You would be able to ask the range to supply/order the rounds, but I expect that you will have to order more than a small box at a time. This will depend on the range. If they can't supply you with the ammo, you should be able to use your own, but there will be a charge i'm sure for using the range if they usually profit from selling ammo for range shooting.

    3a. They can come whenever to check on your safe.
    3b. They have your doctors details. Be sure to include details of any relevant doctor, so they can properly assess you. If they learn that you are seeing a specialist for a special reason and you did not include that doctors details, you will likely be refused a license.
    3c. The general concensus is start off with a .22 rifle and go from there. After a few months, you would then be able to get what you want more easily, as you will have been seen to put thought into what you need, rather than be seen to have a shiny cowboy rifle.

    4. A dealer should be able to bring one in for you. If you can find a UK price, add 30% and you will have a better idea of cost.


  • #3
    jb88
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 484 ✭✭jb88


    There are a few in Ireland who have competed in long range lever action rifle shooting and have done very well at this type of shooting

    I would recommend maybe a Marlin 1894c in .38/357 for longer ranges.

    This is a lever action gun. or an 1894 chambered in .44.

    You may be able to shoot a 30/30 - But you would need to check with the NRA in the UK

    This discipline is shot in the UK at certain Gallery competitions such as the Phoenix in Bisley.
    Gallery Rifle Centre fire 100, 200 and 300 yards.

    Due to the fact that the rifle uses a pistol caliber, it is a restricted firearm.

    There are really only two places I know, there may be more to shoot at 100 , 200 and 300 yards in Ireland and that is Midlands National shooting centre outside Tullamore in Offaly and An Riocht club in Kerry. (there are also some fine ranges in Northern Ireland who may cater for this)

    Something to consider
    Harbour House in Kildare cater for Gallery rifle competitions of which there are many and its competitive (An Underlever is one of the main Gallery rifles used)

    Disciplines are out to 50m

    You can use a toggle lock type rifle, but specifically for long range, the main supplier of Rossi Underlevers in Ireland (uses a Marlin 1894 for this specific long range competition in the UK)

    Sorry to plug these type of firearms but underlever Centre rifles are hard to get.

    The competition discipline is as follows for the Phoenix in Bisley (Held in May every year)
    Gallery rifle Centrefire 100/200/300 yards

    @100 - Its Standing, (2 sighters and 10 shots) 2 series pf 5 shots in 30 seconds
    @200 - Its Kneeling (2 sighters and 10 shots) - Think its 5 min
    @300 - Its prone with a bipod. (2 sighters and 10 shots) Maybe 12 min - cant remember but plenty of time.

    This is just one example and competitors primarily use scopes, but it can be open sights, I would need to check.

    Its great fun to compete in and all of the participants are very open to share their knowledge.

    The medical ?? If you get an FCA1 form you are asked to list your doctor and any conditions in the firearm application. If that qualifies then it should not be an issue

    Let me know if you need any further information

    One thing on any Marlin - make sure if you are going through all this effort, to get a JM stamped Marlin. When Marlin was bought by Remington, they didn't take the Gunsmiths, a big mistake. Quality has suffered in the intervening years.


  • #4
    extremetaz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭extremetaz


    FactualOrc wrote: »
    Dear Forum,

    I am interested in getting into target shooting as a hobby,

    Lets just start with this first.

    How much shooting experience have you got?
    If none/limited, then might I suggest looking towards a Browning BL22 or similar in the initial as this is going to be a very difficult rifle to learn to shoot on.

    Lever guns are used for gallery shooting alright, but they have to be in pistol calibers so the 30-30 is out.

    On the other hand long range is usually prone or seated, and lever action doesn't lend itself to either particularly well; further to that, whilst the cartridge itself has the guts for flinging lead long range, that bullet profile isn't going to do you any favours - there are significantly better options available (of course, this is all in the context of the academics of the 'better longrange setup' - if it's just the lever action shooting experience you're after then it's all irrelevent).

    So whilst they're a ..fun.. option for deer stalking, they really don't fit any other discipline all that well.

    FactualOrc wrote: »
    1: I would like some assistance in finding a well facilitated shooting range near me (South Dublin) that caters for centrefire rifles, particularly the 30-30

    Think Midlands is your most local option for that caliber.
    FactualOrc wrote: »
    2: I was hoping to get a lever action as my first firearm chambered in 30-30, as I am interested in long range (relative to a lever action) shooting, but am aware that it seems to be an "oddball" round as far as Irish shooting goes. So I was wondering how that would work if the range didn't supply it and/or didn't allow me to bring my own ammo (assuming that it is even available at all in Ireland)

    Probably won't be easy to get no and import requires a licence, but your local RFD will probably be willing to source it for you if you're buying in sufficient quanitity.
    FactualOrc wrote: »
    3: I have been reviewing the procedures for obtaining a firearms licence and I have a few questions about that as well:
    a: In reference to the situation where a guard comes to your house, is that a one off thing or can they just pop over to my house whenever they want to check on my safes?

    Visits are announced (in my experience) and infrequent.
    FactualOrc wrote: »
    b: Is there a medical assessment and how does it work? I have problems like everybody else, unfortunately though, my problems have labels attached to them so if someone is more in tune with the medical side of applying for a licence then please pm me as I am not sure if it would be wise to go flaunting my medical history on the internet.

    You sign permission for them to access to your medical records, there's no farther assessment as such.
    FactualOrc wrote: »
    c: How hard would it be to go about the “good reason” for wanting a 30-30 lever action.

    In other words, how much leeway do they give you in terms of personal preference?

    I’d guess that the first thing they’d say to me when I tell them I want it for longish range target shooting is “Why not go for a bolt-action in a more suitable cartridge?” If I told them I like cowboy movies and the 30-30 is the closest I'm going to get to a long range cartridge, seeing as it can’t be a spitzer, would they be satisfied with that?

    In an unrestricted firearm, which the 30-30 is (AFAIK), then there's leeway enough alright - if you've membership to an appropriate target range then that's about it.
    FactualOrc wrote: »
    4: The rifle I had in mind was a Marlin 336c chambered in the aforementioned 30-30. As far as I am aware (please correct me if I'm wrong) this particular rifle is not available in Ireland and I would have to import this. I would like to know the procedure for undertaking such a task. I’d assume it wouldn't be incredibly uncommon, would I just organise it with a dealer/my rifle club? I’d also imagine that it would add a hefty sum onto the MRSP of the rifle, what with vat and shipping. Could someone give me a rough estimate as to what expenses I’d be expected to pay on top of the MSRP in terms of percentage?

    Yes, an RFD will import; Yes, you'll pay for it.


    In summary, yes this is a rifle you can get, but it's going to take a huge amount of time and money trying to learn how to shoot with it. These rifles are available, there's no scarcity of them if you're willing to import, and if you want to go lever-gun, then I'd highly recommend the Browning BL22 first.

    You can buy it cheap, it's cheap to run, your local rifle range *will* be able to accomodate it, and it'll give the full lever-gun experience except with less bang, less recoil, and less ammo spend, until you're at a skill level where you're actually in a position to get some value from its (much) bigger brother.

    There's a BL22 in my parents house, and it's a lovely gun to shoot, is plenty accurate and easy to maintain, the only fault I'd give it is that the trigger is a little on the heavy side for me (but I've been spoilt by match triggers for far too long so don't worry too much about that).

    Most importantly though - there is no better round for learning to shoot on than the venerable old 22LR. In fact, if there's ever going to be one thing that pretty much everybody in here will agree on, it's that you never regret buying a 22LR, although plenty of people have regretted selling them later.


  • #5
    Buckmark1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 96 ✭✭Buckmark1


    The best thing that you can do is join a club. The nearest club to South Dublin is Hilltop in Newtown Mount Kennedy. Many of the members shoot lever action rifles there but in pistol calibers. The 30-30 cannot be used in gallery rifle competitions.
    The rifle would be suitable for shooting something like the sporting rifle competitions in the Midlands.
    As JB88 said there are long range lever action matches available in the UK but they are shot using pistol calibre rounds.
    The 30-30 lever action rifles are available but they are not very common as previous poster said but they can be got.


  • #6
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,872 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Welcome to the forum. As you can see you'll get great advice from the lads & ladies. They have answered the specifics on the gun and caliber excellently so i'll refrain from repeating what they've said, plus they'd be more knowledgeable than me on the subject. However there are a couple of things i'd like to try and help with.
    FactualOrc wrote: »
    1: I would like some assistance in finding a well facilitated shooting range near me (South Dublin) that caters for centrefire rifles, particularly the 30-30
    I have done up a complete (as complete as i can make it anyway) list of ranges and split them into county and whether it's a rifle or shotgun range. The Rifle range one is here. They include distances, calibers they are rated for, times, rates, location, etc. If any details are missing then ring them to find out the specifics you need.

    Be aware that only a handful of ranges can facilitate centrefire rifles, and even less go past 100 yards (as said above Midlands and An Roicht being the only two).
    b: Is there a medical assessment and how does it work? I have problems like everybody else, unfortunately though, my problems have labels attached to them so if someone is more in tune with the medical side of applying for a licence then please pm me as I am not sure if it would be wise to go flaunting my medical history on the internet.
    There is a section on the FCA1 application (section 2.2) that asks you to declare any medical condition(s) that preclude you from owning and using a firearm safely (as well as your GP or other doctors details). A medical condition does not automatically mean you cannot have a firearm, but it will give the Gardaí cause to further investigate your condition and signing the form gives them permission to do this.

    Failure to sign this part will result in the application being refused, and any omissions because you think it may go against you will come back to bite you in the ass. So you're best bet is to be upfront and honest.

    I've never gone through this process, but an educated guess would be conditions including severe or limited physical movement, mental issues, etc.
    c: How hard would it be to go about the “good reason” for wanting a 30-30 lever action. In other words, how much leeway do they give you in terms of personal preference? I’d guess that the first thing they’d say to me when I tell them I want it for longish range target shooting is “Why not go for a bolt-action in a more suitable cartridge?” If I told them I like cowboy movies and the 30-30 is the closest I'm going to get to a long range cartridge, seeing as it can’t be a spitzer, would they be satisfied with that?
    Good reason is based on your need, not want, for a particular type of firearm. So wanting one is not good enough. You need to show why this type of firearm is the only one that can be used above all others. As the guys have said above membership of a range will be compulsory, but you must also show the type of shooting you intend to do requires this type of firearm.

    The lads have said its not suitable for Gallery, and as a long range shooter myself i can tell you there are no disciplines (bar the previously mentioned sporting rifle comps) that either allow for this type of firearm or would allow you to be competitive.

    The last reason to have it (or as a dual purpose firearm) would be hunting, but again you need to show deer license, land permissions, etc.
    4: The rifle I had in mind was a Marlin 336c chambered in the aforementioned 30-30. As far as I am aware (please correct me if I'm wrong) this particular rifle is not available in Ireland and I would have to import this. I would like to know the procedure for undertaking such a task. I’d assume it wouldn't be incredibly uncommon, would I just organise it with a dealer/my rifle club? I’d also imagine that it would add a hefty sum onto the MRSP of the rifle, what with vat and shipping. Could someone give me a rough estimate as to what expenses I’d be expected to pay on top of the MSRP in terms of percentage?
    Those firearm are licensed by some people, but as for importing its not overly difficult but can be expensive.

    You need to apply for an import license from the DoJ. This is free and can be done in as little as a week. In order to apply for the import you need to be licensed on the firearm or have a dealer do it for you while you await the firearms license. A dealer may want full payment upfront to cover his ass so if you get refused the gun is your property, its just that you cannot possess it. Which means selling it via the dealer to recover costs which may also include a charge by the dealer. You can find out more by Googling "Individual firearm import" and checking the DoJ website.

    The actual importing of the firearm will cost you. Depending on if it's bought from the states or not you may pay $250+ in a export fee from the states, then the cost of the secure shipping, plus the VAT on arrival here, and then duty which runs at 4.7% minimum. With the dollar so strong against the Euro this means a $1,000 gun could end up costing you €1,600 by the time you pay shipping, export fees, VAt & duty.

    There are no VAT/Duty fees from Europe and usually no once off export fees so this would be a better option. I'd have a chat with some of the lads here that shoot this discipline. They may know of a dealer with access to or stocking these type of rifles and i'd suggest you go to a range that caters for this discipline of shooting so you can see what the sport is all about.
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  • #7
    nastros
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭nastros


    Midlands National Shooting Centre seems like best solution if you want to practice at longer range worth giving them a ring they helped me with my first rifle and how to apply for license and all of that. The owner is also a dealer so could help you with the import.


  • #8
    clivej
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,274 ✭✭✭clivej


    Hope I can help you in your quest
    FactualOrc wrote: »
    Dear Forum,

    I am interested in getting into target shooting as a hobby, but a few questions/queries have come up that are causing a bit of confusion. I was hoping that they could be clarified here. They are as follows:

    1: I would like some assistance in finding a well facilitated shooting range near me (South Dublin) that caters for centrefire rifles, particularly the 30-30

    There are only 2 ranges that cater for centerfire rifles above 50m. The Midlands shooting centre at Tulamore, and An Riocht club in Kerry.
    Harbour House Sports Club near Kildare have a newly built 100m range are waiting on approval at the moment to open.

    FactualOrc wrote: »
    2: I was hoping to get a lever action as my first firearm chambered in 30-30, as I am interested in long range (relative to a lever action) shooting, but am aware that it seems to be an "oddball" round as far as Irish shooting goes. So I was wondering how that would work if the range didn't supply it and/or didn't allow me to bring my own ammo (assuming that it is even available at all in Ireland)

    You don't say what age you are so I'm just thinking that a lever action for 'Long range shooting' may be somewhat a little romantic thinking here. They were never meant for long range shooting. And to buy a lever action for this intention you will be very disappointed. Just to put this in real terms I shoot a Marlin 1894 lever action chambered in .38spl/.357mag and a bolt action Sako 75 in .308. At 200m the .308 will group under 2" the .357mag around 6", at 300m the .308 under 3" & the .357mag about 18". And I do shoot my Marlin in competition out to 300y but not in Ireland.
    Also because the lever actions have a tube magazine you are limited in the type of ammo you can use, if using the mag. The rounds sit behind each other in the tube with the nose of a round up against the primer of the next round in front of it. You cannot use target ammo as the nose of this type of ammo is very pointed and could detonate the round in front of it. Round, flat, or rubberized nose ammo is therefore used.
    Another point is how a round ejects from the action. Marlin are, AFAIK the only manufacturer where the round/case ejects from the side and not the top of the action. This will mean that a 'normal' scope can be used with the Marlin

    FactualOrc wrote: »
    4: The rifle I had in mind was a Marlin 336c chambered in the aforementioned 30-30. As far as I am aware (please correct me if I'm wrong) this particular rifle is not available in Ireland and I would have to import this. I would like to know the procedure for undertaking such a task. I’d assume it wouldn't be incredibly uncommon, would I just organise it with a dealer/my rifle club? I’d also imagine that it would add a hefty sum onto the MRSP of the rifle, what with vat and shipping. Could someone give me a rough estimate as to what expenses I’d be expected to pay on top of the MSRP in terms of percentage?

    If that's the rifle you want then they can be bought in by any good dealer. You tell them what you want, pay a deposit and wait, 6 months/year. Have a look on guntrader in the UK there may be one waiting for you there.

    If an under lever rifle is what you really want then may I suggest you look to Gallery Rifle shooting with one. You'd get to shoot it far more often and you are not as limited with the ranges that you can shoot at. Great fun to participate in with many friendly people to show you the ropes and save you buckets of money as well.


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