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Why do you hate Irish?

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Comments

  • #812
    Caoimhgh1n
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,499 ✭✭✭✭Caoimhgh1n


    deepesthole wrote: »
    TBH predates mobiles by decades. It isn't textspeak. Sorry about that.
    Irish isn't allowed in this forum either. :P

    Ó, dáiríre? An bhfuil cosc ar Gaeilge?

    Oh, really? Is there a ban on Irish?


  • #813
    deepesthole
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 123 ✭✭deepesthole


    Caoimhgh1n wrote: »
    Ó, dáiríre? An bhfuil cosc ar Gaeilge?

    Oh, really? Is there a ban on Irish?
    Fantastically careful wording! Almost as if you know the answer already. ;)


  • #814
    thattequilagirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭thattequilagirl


    The benefits of keeping Irish as a compulsory subject in schools:

    -kids use the left side of their brain more (yes, this is true of any second language, but it is equally true of Irish)
    -our rich oral history is kept alive, youtube seanachai to find out more on that one
    -it gives children the opportunity to embrace an important aspect of their history and culture
    -it supports parents who know and love the language in passing it on to their children
    -it provides insight into a unique part of our heritage

    The drawbacks of keeping Irish as a compulsory subject in schools:
    -the time could be given to something more useful (in which case, let's also scrap religion, art, music and all other subjects which aren't vital in your day to day life as an adult)
    -some people don't like it


  • #815
    deepesthole
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 123 ✭✭deepesthole


    thattequilagirl wrote: »
    The benefits of keeping Irish as a compulsory subject in schools:

    -kids use the left side of their brain more (yes, this is true of any second language, but it is equally true of Irish)
    -our rich oral history is kept alive, youtube seanachai to find out more on that one
    -it gives children the opportunity to embrace an important aspect of their history and culture
    -it supports parents who know and love the language in passing it on to their children
    -it provides insight into a unique part of our heritage

    The drawbacks of keeping Irish as a compulsory subject in schools:
    -the time could be given to something more useful (in which case, let's also scrap religion, art, music and all other subjects which aren't vital in your day to day life as an adult)
    -some people don't like it
    4 of your 5 "pros" are a cultural re-enactment wheeze. The other would be better served with Arabic, Chinese or Russian, which would be both more useful and enhance the left side effect more than a very similar language like Irish.
    One of your "cons" boils down to "other things are useless but I like Irish so it's a special useless".


  • #816
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    deepesthole wrote: »
    4 of your 5 "pros" are a cultural re-enactment wheeze. The other would be better served with Arabic, Chinese or Russian, which would be both more useful and enhance the left side effect more than a very similar language like Irish.
    One of your "cons" boils down to "other things are useless but I like Irish so it's a special useless".

    Why on earth would we waste our time learning Russian? It has zero cultural significance to us.
    Again if we were to remove stuff from the curriculum that are culturally relevant but not much else half the curriculum would be gone. Jane Austin for example has about 1/100th the relevance of the Irish language to someone living along the Atlantic coast of Ireland. In fact she is almost completely irrelevant.


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  • #817
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    deepesthole wrote: »
    Here's where I ask you to show me where I said that, you fail to, and then you come back with something "hilarious" instead? I can't wait!
    So, any notion what the difference between "learn about" and "re-enact" is? No? Need a huddle there with Dughorn etc. again?

    I don't do "huddles". Caught out in a lie yourself there. Man enough to apologise?


  • #818
    deepesthole
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 123 ✭✭deepesthole


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    I don't do "huddles". Caught out in a lie yourself there. Man enough to apologise?
    Caught out "myself"? Jeez, that's pretty much a direct admission that YOU were caught out! You didn't even notice you did that, did you? Nope.
    Which you haven't even got the common courtesy to illustrate before demanding an apology.
    Almost as if you're just spouting transparently lame attacks in the forlorn hope something sticks.
    Keep at it, eh.


  • #819
    Brendan97
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 503 ✭✭✭Brendan97


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    Why on earth would we waste our time learning Russian? It has zero cultural significance to us.

    Why do subjects have to have a cultural significance? We would scrap everything other than Irish, History, Art and Music is that were the case

    Learning Russian - You can speak to more people, you are more employable, etc.

    Learning Irish - You can communicate poorly*, through Irish, with other people who also speak English better

    *Irish is an underdeveloped language with a small vocabulary due to it more or less dying out, you end up saying something similar to what you want to say but not exactly (I have fluent Irish speaking friends who agree with this point)


  • #820
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    Brendan97 wrote: »
    Learning Irish - You can communicate poorly*, through Irish, with other people who also speak English better

    *Irish is an underdeveloped language with a small vocabulary due to it more or less dying out, you end up saying something similar to what you want to say but not exactly (I have fluent Irish speaking friends who agree with this point)

    Can you elaborate here? Are your fluent Irish speaking friends native speakers?


  • #821
    deepesthole
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 123 ✭✭deepesthole


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    Why on earth would we waste our time learning Russian? It has zero cultural significance to us.
    It less of a waste of time than Irish for starters. And it gets your old left hemisphere going waaay better you see.


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  • #822
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    deepesthole wrote: »
    Caught out "myself"? Jeez, that's pretty much a direct admission that YOU were caught out! You didn't even notice you did that, did you? Nope.
    Which you haven't even got the common courtesy to illustrate before demanding an apology.
    Almost as if you're just spouting transparently lame attacks in the forlorn hope something sticks.
    Keep at it, eh.

    Nice evasion there. Apology please for alleging I'm pming someone else on this thread. You cannot just throw out childish accusations like that and expect to get away with it. Apology please.


  • #823
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    deepesthole wrote: »
    It less of a waste of time than Irish for starters. And it gets your old left hemisphere going waaay better you see.

    Given that your far more likely to converse face to face with a living irish speaker...yes they do exist although you probably haven't bothered leaving your castle to meet one...than a russian, the answer is no, it makes no sense to learn russian.


  • #824
    briany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,159 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Stheno wrote: »
    For me it's the way it was thought, over twenty years after I left school, I can still have a conversation in French or German, but Irish is beyond me, that's with five years of French and German and 13 of Irish.

    There are far more cognates between French and English, and German and English than there are with Irish and English. I understand that because Hiberno-English is influenced by Irish to a degree, there are more cognates than if a speaker of UK English was trying to learn it, but it remains a mostly foreign language to people who would feel the most attachment to it.

    There is no hatred toward Irish (in the main), but there is a lot of apathy. If you could give people a compelling argument to learn it then you'd be on to something. Right now, I don't see any more reason to learn it than a person would want to learn poetry. Sure, a relatively small percentage of people will do either and love it, and they should be allowed to do that, absolutely. The rest of the people will be able to quote a bit of Frost and Heaney, and rattle off a couple of prepositional pronoun lists, but that's about it, and their life won't really be too negatively affected by that.


  • #825
    deepesthole
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 123 ✭✭deepesthole


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    Nice evasion there. Apology please for alleging I'm pming someone else on this thread. You cannot just throw out childish accusations like that and expect to get away with it. Apology please.
    Oh, you're on a real mission now to pretend the whole "learning about = re-enactment" thing never happened aren't you? So back to the internet debating 101 handbook... oh I know! Feign horrified offense at some piffling nothing you just made up and that'll get them on your side. Yeah, go for it! I, sir, DEMAND satisfaction!


  • #826
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    Brendan97 wrote: »
    Why do subjects have to have a cultural significance? We would scrap everything other than Irish, History, Art and Music is that were the case

    Learning Russian - You can speak to more people, you are more employable, etc.

    Learning Irish - You can communicate poorly*, through Irish, with other people who also speak English better

    *Irish is an underdeveloped language with a small vocabulary due to it more or less dying out, you end up saying something similar to what you want to say but not exactly (I have fluent Irish speaking friends who agree with this point)

    Modern languages are already compulsory in secondary school. Very few people use them after they leave school. They are almost totally irrelevant to the vast majority of people. I'm sure you learned one. How fluent are you now in yours?


  • #827
    deepesthole
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 123 ✭✭deepesthole


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    Given that your far more likely to converse face to face with a living irish speaker...yes they do exist although you probably haven't bothered leaving your castle to meet one...than a russian, the answer is no, it makes no sense to learn russian.
    Every last Irish speaker can speak English. Every last one. Nearly all better than their Irish.
    Not so for Russian, Arabic and Chinese.
    They do exist? Yeah, so? 1% of the population and they all speak English anyway. Yeah, score one for the Irish.


  • #828
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    deepesthole wrote: »
    Oh, you're on a real mission now to pretend the whole "learning about = re-enactment" thing never happened aren't you? So back to the internet debating 101 handbook... oh I know! Feign horrified offense at some piffling nothing you just made up and that'll get them on your side. Yeah, go for it! I, sir, DEMAND satisfaction!

    Not man enough? Thought not! Your credibility is in bits. Throw about lies and then not apologise. Who would waste their time arguing with you?


  • #829
    Brendan97
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 503 ✭✭✭Brendan97


    Dughorm wrote: »
    Can you elaborate here? Are your fluent Irish speaking friends native speakers?

    Yes they are native speakers, born in the Gaeltacht and not a word of English until they were around 5/6 and even then didn't use it much until Secondary school because they went to Irish speaking primary schools.

    They agree that Irish just hasn't grown as most "active" languages have, there is a small, dated vocabulary that just isn't practical in modern day life; I'd wager that over 98% of fluent Irish speakers speak better English.


  • #830
    Brendan97
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 503 ✭✭✭Brendan97


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    Modern languages are already compulsory in secondary school. Very few people use them after they leave school. They are almost totally irrelevant to the vast majority of people. I'm sure you learned one. How fluent are you now in yours?

    Whether people use them or not is up to the person, but at least a modern language is practical to some, Irish isn't practical at all to anyone.

    I did French and only did it up to Junior Cert, but am actually attempting to learn it myself now because I regret not keeping it on. Irish on the otherhand..... it is the definition of impractical


  • #831
    deepesthole
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 123 ✭✭deepesthole


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    Not man enough? Thought not! Your credibility is in bits. Throw about lies and then not apologise. Who would waste their time arguing with you?
    Stay predictable mate. No, you haven't deflected from pretending learning is the same as re-enacting. In fact, you've refused to even admit you said it since I rumbled you before you clicked post at all. But yeah, this pretend offense is all a bit lame after a few rounds, so off with you.


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  • #832
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    Brendan97 wrote: »
    Yes they are native speakers, born in the Gaeltacht and not a word of English until they were around 5/6 and even then didn't use it much until Secondary school because they went to Irish speaking primary schools.

    They agree that Irish just hasn't grown as most "active" languages have, there is a small, dated vocabulary that just isn't practical in modern day life; I'd wager that over 98% of fluent Irish speakers speak better English.

    That's very interesting - I wonder do your fluent friends still speak Irish as their main language? Are they claiming the deontas?

    The reason I ask is because some of the vocabulary for newer Irish words doesn't appear to me like it is used in everyday life for example, "oigheann micreathonnach" comes to mind - how would your friends say "I put the ready-meal in the microwave"?

    That said, I don't think it's a massive issue for the language - it's malleable.


  • #833
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    ]Modern languages are already compulsory in secondary schoolVery few people use them after they leave school. They are almost totally irrelevant to the vast majority of people. I'm sure you learned one. How fluent are you now in yours?
    No they aren't. I know facts can get in the way of your agenda but please try to keep to them.


  • #834
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    Brendan97 wrote: »
    Whether people use them or not is up to the person, but at least a modern language is practical to some, Irish isn't practical at all to anyone.

    I did French and only did it up to Junior Cert, but am actually attempting to learn it myself now because I regret not keeping it on. Irish on the otherhand..... it is the definition of impractical

    As discussed ad nauseum 75% of what is taught in schools is not practical to the vast majority of people.


  • #835
    Brendan97
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 503 ✭✭✭Brendan97


    Dughorm wrote: »
    That's very interesting - I wonder do your fluent friends still speak Irish as their main language? Are they claiming the deontas?

    The reason I ask is because some of the vocabulary for newer Irish words doesn't appear to me like it is used in everyday life for example, "oigheann micreathonnach" comes to mind - how would your friends say "I put the ready-meal in the microwave"?

    That said, I don't think it's a massive issue for the language - it's malleable.

    Well they all did all their exams through Irish and got extra marks (which I always tell them is unfair and shouldn't happen), some take in people for the summer in the Gaeltacht, one teaches in an Irish speaking school and one did their college course through Irish, (there are others too but those are the first that come to mind) now I'm not capable of testing whether they're fluent or not but I'm taking them to be signs that they are (or at least most of them are)


  • #836
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Dughorm wrote: »
    That's very interesting - I wonder do your fluent friends still speak Irish as their main language? Are they claiming the deontas?

    The reason I ask is because some of the vocabulary for newer Irish words doesn't appear to me like it is used in everyday life for example, "oigheann micreathonnach" comes to mind - how would your friends say "I put the ready-meal in the microwave"?

    That said, I don't think it's a massive issue for the language - it's malleable.
    That's a terrible way of saying microwave? Who makes this **** up?

    Microwave
    Microcoonda
    Micro-ondes
    Mikrowelle
    Magnetron
    Mikrouhin
    Microonde

    Nice, short composite words that get the point across and are practical for every day speech. And what does Irish do?

    Micreathonnach

    what would have been wrong with Micreatonn?

    Even drop the double letter and make it, Micreaton. Much better.


  • #837
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    As discussed ad nauseum 75% of what is taught in schools is not practical to the vast majority of people.

    The question is, though: is this a positive aspect or a negative aspect?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #838
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    That's a terrible way of saying microwave? Who makes this **** up?

    Microwave
    Microcoonda
    Micro-ondes
    Mikrowelle
    Magnetron
    Mikrouhin
    Microonde

    Nice, short composite words that get the point across and are practical for every day speech. And what does Irish do?

    Micreathonnach

    what would have been wrong with Micreatonn?

    Even drop the double letter and make it, Micreaton. Much better.

    That's a good question - who did make that up?

    Apparently there's micreathonnán as well which is a little closer to your Micreaton.

    I think a lot of those newer words are waiting to be broken in - i've just finished reading a book by a native speaker written 50 odd years ago - I just can't imagine him having the patience to pronounce that - he'd have stopped after the first six letters "Micrea" :D


  • #839
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    The question is, though: is this a positive aspect or a negative aspect?

    Everyone will take something from the education system. 95% mightn't use Shakespeare again but 5% might if they go into the Arts or become an English teacher. The same for the poets. Also the modern languages. And Irish if someone goes on to become a primary teacher or other areas where Irish used.

    Its a good question but its unfair to single out Irish above other subjects. How relevant is the Elizabethan English used by Shakespeare for example. Or how relevant is Dickens? There is a move to introduce computer programming early now in schools so that's good.


  • #840
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Dughorm wrote: »
    That's a good question - who did make that up?

    Apparently there's micreathonnán as well which is a little closer to your Micreaton.

    I think a lot of those newer words are waiting to be broken in - i've just finished reading a book by a native speaker written 50 odd years ago - I just can't imagine him having the patience to pronounce that - he'd have stopped after the first six letters "Micrea" :D
    I guess that's the problem with purely academic languages. They aren't beaten into convenience by everyday use.


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  • #841
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I guess that's the problem with purely academic languages. They aren't beaten into convenience by everyday use.

    I'm sure Brendan97's native speaking friends have some word for it - it's kept secret perhaps? :pac:


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