Munster vs Leinster buildup

28-12-2015 10:33pm

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I keep saying it but given that Europe is a write off now for Leinster there is no reason not to give the likes of Ringrose and VDF a shot against really good opposition.

VdF played both Toulon games. Was part of an overpowered pack but I don't think he looked out of his depth.

awec · 28-12-2015 10:33pm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Does that not suggest that Stuie at 12 and Rings at 13 is the future then ? The only question is how manage that transition.

(you cant use it not being hard to be more creative than Payne or Henchie as Ringrose' problem though)

It could be the future for sure! But then again, both players could fail to make the step up. We'll just have to wait and see.

Bound to be better to watch than two full backs in the middle of the park though!

flouncer · 28-12-2015 10:37pm

awec wrote: »

It wouldn't be hard to be more creative than Payne and Henshaw, which must be one of the most boring centre partnerships in world rugby.

McCloskey is a completely different player in a different position. Can't really compare, Ringrose will never be able to bring the power and brute force that McCloskey can for example. The two of them might make a very decent partnership in a few years time!

As a connacht supporter I shouldnt say this but i totally agree. Henshaw is utterly boring. Boring as a full back, boring as a centre. Look forward to the mccloskey aki centre partnership.

errlloyd · 28-12-2015 10:39pm

Neil Francis

I actually don't really care if Ringrose plays for Ireland this year, so long as he gets serious minutes for Leinster ASAP.

Hagz · 28-12-2015 10:49pm

swiwi_ wrote: »

Ah dude, that's the sort of limp conservative attitude that gets Irish rugby nowhere. From what I've seen he looks very promising. In NZ, that means making at least the training squad. In Ireland, it means waiting a few more years. He looks about the same size as snakey Smith, and he did just fine at international level.

NB: Had a quick look at the pro era (1995 onwards)

Ireland - Luke Fitz 19, Rhys Ruddock 19, Darcy 19
NZ - Toeava 19, Rococoko 20, Cullen 20, Cane 20, Atiga 20, Collins 20, Guildford 20, Ralph 20, McCaw 20, Mauger 20 (also Lomu 19 1994, Wilson 20 1993, Innes 20 1989, Little 20 1990)

Yis can check it out here.

http://stats.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/records/player/youngest_appearance.html?id=3;type=team
http://stats.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/records/player/youngest_appearance.html?id=8;type=team

There's also Robbie Henshaw 19, Stuart Olding 19, Iain Henderson 20, Rob Kearney 20, Tommy Bowe 20 etc. I'm sure there's a lot more.

sydthebeat · 28-12-2015 11:02pm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Stheno wrote: »

I'd take Best over those three tbh.

Doesnt last the 80 though. But a contender alright.

No front row player plays 80 these days ??

mfceiling · 28-12-2015 11:35pm

Mark Robson almost had heart failure yesterday at ringrose making his break. He out paced a second row, stepped inside a defender and threw a middling enough pass to ica. I'll be honest here and say I'd be disappointed if any player from 11 -15 on both sides couldn't have done that.

Utah_Saint · 28-12-2015 11:46pm

Ringrose is not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy...

Hagz · 28-12-2015 11:54pm

It was really bad defending from Dave Foley in particular. He got himself into an awful position.

But at the same time you have to give the kid credit. I'm sure anyone 11-15 on either side could have done that, but I'd have my doubts whether they would have done that. He kept his cool, he fixed JOD and burnt him on the inside and then he stepped Conway. He could have gone onto finish it himself really but chose the safe option.

It was the type of play that typifies why there's a lot of excitement around him. He isn't particularly big/powerful or quick but he's a really smart player who executes the basics very well. I suppose in that respect he's a coaches dream.

matthew8 · 28-12-2015 11:58pm

mfceiling wrote: »

Mark Robson almost had heart failure yesterday at ringrose making his break. He out paced a second row, stepped inside a defender and threw a middling enough pass to ica. I'll be honest here and say I'd be disappointed if any player from 11 -15 on both sides couldn't have done that.

That's harsh. Getting around the second row was easy and so was the 2 on 1 but he did well to find Isa, the obvious player to pass to was probably covered.

thomond2006 · 29-12-2015 1:32am

Credit Munster Haka:

552731_664205373716361_4614657248285503676_n.jpg?oh=44dcf811b6766a10f2002d95a1ff237e&oe=5719BDCE

molloyjh · 29-12-2015 1:34am

thomond2006 wrote: »

Credit Munster Haka:

Rob Kearney did it way better.....

molloyjh · 29-12-2015 1:38am

mfceiling wrote: »

Mark Robson almost had heart failure yesterday at ringrose making his break. He out paced a second row, stepped inside a defender and threw a middling enough pass to ica. I'll be honest here and say I'd be disappointed if any player from 11 -15 on both sides couldn't have done that.

It wasn't his technical skills that impressed me there, but his decisions. How easy would it have been to take the wrong option of McFadden outside for example? We've seen pros do that time and again before. Yet this kid in his first real game at 13 (he started there once but had to move out to the wing early on due to injuries) made all the right decisions at exactly the right times. You've got to give him credit for that.

Stheno · 29-12-2015 1:41am

molloyjh wrote: »

It wasn't his technical skills that impressed me there, but his decisions. How easy would it have been to take the wrong option of McFadden outside for example? We've seen pros do that time and again before. Yet this kid in his first real game at 13 (he started there once but had to move out to the wing early on due to injuries) made all the right decisions at exactly the right times. You've got to give him credit for that.

When I first saw the try it was at a weird angle and looked like a forward pass.

Then I saw where he had three options to pass, and imo he made the best decision

ClanofLams · 29-12-2015 1:50am

awec wrote: »

It wouldn't be hard to be more creative than Payne and Henshaw, which must be one of the most boring centre partnerships in world rugby.

McCloskey is a completely different player in a different position. Can't really compare, Ringrose will never be able to bring the power and brute force that McCloskey can for example. The two of them might make a very decent partnership in a few years time!

It's hardly Robbie's fault that Schmidt uses him primarily as a battering ram at 12, a job he's very effective at but one which doesn't allow him to display the breadth of his talents.

Certainly any Connacht fan (with the apparent exception of flouncer who seems to dislike him for some bizarre reason) would tell you he's far from boring and provides moments of magic such as his stepping Earls and offload to Aki for the latter's try in Thomond on a regular basis.

stephen_n · 29-12-2015 11:55am

mfceiling wrote: »

Mark Robson almost had heart failure yesterday at ringrose making his break. He out paced a second row, stepped inside a defender and threw a middling enough pass to ica. I'll be honest here and say I'd be disappointed if any player from 11 -15 on both sides couldn't have done that.

The defender being an openside flanker, who he fixed and stepped perfectly, then took a line to fix the fullback before passing. No it's not the greatest attacking play ever seen on a rugby pitch, but it shows a lot more attacking ability than pretty much most of the other 29 players on the pitch have shown. He isn't the second coming of BOD but if everybody's going to be like "meh well he didn't walk on water to score the try" then the chap hasn't got a chance. He has certainly shown enough to suggest the potential is there to be a serious contender for the 13 jersey in the next few years, something not a lot of others are doing, apart from Henshaw who seems to be a 12 in Irish terms. I think Olding is the only young player coming through who'd be a better option at 13, if he could stay injury free, but both have demonstrated an ability to read the game at speed, something very lacking in Irish rugby.

Bridge93 · 29-12-2015 12:01pm

Long term goal for Joe. Find out how to get Henshaw, Olding, Ringrose and McCloskey in the same team. Fitzgerald and Earls too. 6 into 5 spots. Off you go now Joe

Journeyman_1 · 29-12-2015 2:14pm

Bridge93 wrote: »

Long term goal for Joe. Find out how to get Henshaw, Olding, Ringrose and McCloskey in the same team. Fitzgerald and Earls too. 6 into 5 spots. Off you go now Joe

Easy, play McCloskey in the row!

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 29-12-2015 2:18pm

Bridge93 wrote: »

Long term goal for Joe. Find out how to get Henshaw, Olding, Ringrose and McCloskey in the same team. Fitzgerald and Earls too. 6 into 5 spots. Off you go now Joe

Olding can play 10... allegedly.

10 - Olding
11 - Fitzgerald
12 - McCloskey
13 - Ringrose
14 - Trimble (Earls is injured, probably)
15 - Henshaw

Hagz · 29-12-2015 2:43pm

Olding would have made a brilliant 10. A better one than Jackson. It's unfortunate how things have panned out.

awec · 29-12-2015 4:43pm

Journeyman_1 wrote: »

Easy, play McCloskey in the row!

Are Ulster players not allowed to play in their real positions for Ireland?

its_phil · 29-12-2015 4:48pm

awec wrote: »

It wouldn't be hard to be more creative than Payne and Henshaw, which must be one of the most boring centre partnerships in world rugby.

Henshaw not a creative player? :pac:

Connacht fans currently erupting somewhere between laughter and rage.

flouncer · 29-12-2015 10:39pm

its_phil wrote: »

Henshaw not a creative player? :pac:

Connacht fans currently erupting somewhere between laughter and rage.

Not really!

Tox56 · 29-12-2015 10:42pm

its_phil wrote: »

Henshaw not a creative player? :pac:

Connacht fans currently erupting somewhere between laughter and rage.

Its because being "creative" at international level is an unbelievably difficult thing to achieve. Henshaw and Payne would probably look like gods if they were playing in the Pro12 together, but the only time we've ever seen them as a partnership is at international level, generally the biggest and most high level games any rugby player will ever play. I think they get a hard time to be honest

flouncer · 29-12-2015 10:57pm

its_phil wrote: »

Henshaw not a creative player? :pac:

Connacht fans currently erupting somewhere between laughter and rage.

if i wanted henshaw or toh at full back then toh everytime. way more exciting and defensively very strong. if you wanted henshaw at centre over ronaldson then ronaldson every time. far more exciting and consistently breaks gain lines. so no support from this connacht supporter to your viewpoint

phog · 29-12-2015 11:07pm

WTV's blog of the game

flouncer · 29-12-2015 11:12pm

turned off the game. tommy was in such distress couldnt watch it

Zzippy · 30-12-2015 12:53am

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Ringrose is not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy...

COMING SOON: Garry Ringrose stars in The Life Of After Brian

Pink Fairy · 30-12-2015 12:58am

Leinster

I was just wondering if Shaggy would go to BT sport and team up with BOD on their commentary team.....dunno would it be any good....but I don't have BT sport and it would make my start to 2016 a happy one

pickarooney · 30-12-2015 8:41am

awec wrote: »

For what it's worth I've no issue with Ruddock at 6 as he is a very good player but if Henderson was fit he slots in there no questions asked.

Stander is an 8 I think, he should provide competition to Heaslip.

In other news, Ringrose is miles from a cap despite whatever nonsense BOD was spouting on Twitter. Even ignoring his age and lack of experience he is very small and would be eaten alive at test level. Give him a season or two to hopefully bulk a bit and sort himself at Leinster.

1m85 and 89kg is not 'very small'. Very similar to Fofana and Joseph.

Clegg · 30-12-2015 9:21am

Neil Francis

I didn't realise Ringrose was quite so big until seeing him in the flesh. Looks a lot slighter on TV. He'll be well able for top level rugby.

pickarooney · 30-12-2015 10:02am

Is anyone getting a bit of a Madigan feeling about Henshaw? Loads of talent but not really nailing down a fixed position and there are talented players coming through at 12, 13 and 15 meaning he might struggle to make a place his own.

whatawaster · 30-12-2015 10:11am

pickarooney wrote: »

Is anyone getting a bit of a Madigan feeling about Henshaw? Loads of talent but not really nailing down a fixed position and there are talented players coming through at 12, 13 and 15 meaning he might struggle to make a place his own.

He is 22 and has been first choice for his country for the last year. Madigan is 4/5 years older and has never even been first choice for his province, barring injuries

Whether it's 12. 13 or 15, I suspect he will be one of the first players on the teamsheet when fit.

pickarooney · 30-12-2015 10:17am

whatawaster wrote: »

He is 22 and has been first choice for his country for the last year. Madigan is 4/5 years older and has never even been first choice for his province, barring injuries

Whether it's 12. 13 or 15, I suspect he will be one of the first players on the teamsheet when fit.

Only if the coach picks in a personnel basis rather than a positional one. Do Schmidt or Lam tend to do that?

Clegg · 30-12-2015 10:24am

Neil Francis

I'd rather see Henshaw play at 13 where he has a bit more space to run and offload, but he has been better than most could have hoped for at 12. He'll be in the centres for the long term I think. If 12 is to be his position then he has it locked down for the foreseeable even though he's getting pushed by other talented players. He has that extra bit of athleticism which I think McCloskey lacks.

former total · 30-12-2015 10:29am

Leinster

pickarooney wrote: »

Is anyone getting a bit of a Madigan feeling about Henshaw? Loads of talent but not really nailing down a fixed position and there are talented players coming through at 12, 13 and 15 meaning he might struggle to make a place his own.

For Connacht? He's a much better centre than Ronaldson and a much better full back than TOH so I assume it's not a case of Henshaw not being able to nail down a spot. Was it not suggested that he himself had asked to play full back?

For Ireland; he is the undisputed first choice 12 and has been for the last year. Joe won't care where Connacht play him, he will continue to pick him in the centre.

irishbucsfan · 30-12-2015 10:31am

Wouldn't be surprised to see him move to 13 for Ireland though. Could well be his best position, maybe him outside McCloskey will be more attractive to Joe than him inside Payne, although we know Joe is a huge fan of Payne.

30-12-2015 10:49am

Neil Francis

flouncer wrote: »

if i wanted henshaw or toh at full back then toh everytime. way more exciting and defensively very strong. if you wanted henshaw at centre over ronaldson then ronaldson every time. far more exciting and consistently breaks gain lines. so no support from this connacht supporter to your viewpoint

This is like break up anxiety. "He's crap so I don't care if he leaves"

If he signs a 3 year contract with Connacht:

connemara man · 30-12-2015 11:00am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is like break up anxiety. "He's crap so I don't care if he leaves"

Flouncer has never been a Henshaw fan. So that's not it there.

30-12-2015 11:02am

Neil Francis

connemara man wrote: »

Flouncer has never been a Henshaw fan. So that's not it there.

You and Flouncer must either live together or be the same person!

connemara man · 30-12-2015 11:13am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You and Flouncer must either live together or be the same person!

No I like Henshaw good step strong in defence a huge loss to Connacht if/when he goes In more ways than just on the pitch. His full range of talents being wasted at 12 for Ireland

Flouncers views have never been a secret on the Connacht thread that's why I said that

CMOTDibbler · 30-12-2015 11:52am

connemara man wrote: »

No I like Henshaw good step strong in defence a huge loss to Connacht if/when he goes In more ways than just on the pitch. His full range of talents being wasted at 12 for Ireland

Flouncers views have never been a secret on the Connacht thread that's why I said that

I'm not sure that the full range of his talents would be that useful to Ireland if he played at full back (if that's what you're talking about).

Henshaw is an excellent defender and is a strong player with ball in hand. Both of which would be drastically curtailed at full back. If you're talking about at 13m then there's possibly a case to be made but there he's competing with Payne and FitzGerald (Fitz being the most useful attacking option in that position imo) as well as possible up and comers like McCloskey, Olding and possibly Ringrose.

connemara man · 30-12-2015 11:54am

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I'm not sure that the full range of his talents would be that useful to Ireland if he played at full back (if that's what you're talking about).

Henshaw is an excellent defender and is a strong player with ball in hand. Both of which would be drastically curtailed at full back.

No he's a more natural 13 I would love to see him and McCloskey together. In the centre

The Rape of Lucretia · 30-12-2015 12:02pm

whatawaster wrote: »

He is 22 and has been first choice for his country for the last year. Madigan is 4/5 years older and has never even been first choice for his province, barring injuries

Whether it's 12. 13 or 15, I suspect he will be one of the first players on the teamsheet when fit.

Well exactly. Just first choice for his country for a single year. When opportunity opened wide as we had two long term centre legends fade from the scene effectively together.
Whereas Madser had Sexy in situ in both Leinster and Ireland with the MOC shambles bringing in J Gop (who I liked btw - equally as badly treated by MOC as Mads), and switching them every 10 minutes without a clue what he wanted either of them to do.
Henchie is by no means cemented in the team at all, and pressure is there. I could see him drop out for a few years, then come back solidly as a full back as Gorgeous Rob declines.

ClanofLams · 30-12-2015 12:41pm

pickarooney wrote: »

Is anyone getting a bit of a Madigan feeling about Henshaw? Loads of talent but not really nailing down a fixed position and there are talented players coming through at 12, 13 and 15 meaning he might struggle to make a place his own.

Not at all. Madigan has never been first choice for Ireland whereas Henshaw is one of the first names on the teamsheet (and has been one of our best players during that time) and will remain so going forward whether at 12/13, I suspect it will be the former sadly.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 30-12-2015 1:21pm

ClanofLams wrote: »

Not at all. Madigan has never been first choice for Ireland whereas Henshaw is one of the first names on the teamsheet (and has been one of our best players during that time) and will remain so going forward whether at 12/13, I suspect it will be the former sadly.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with Henshaw in the Irish set up if McCloskey and Ringrose continue to develop the way they have this season. Maybe it won't happen in 2016 but sooner or later we could have two top quality specialist centres available for selection and it doesn't make a lot of sense to leave one out for a guy who is playing out of position. Of course Henshaw could also continue to develop and then you've got a real headache. I'd really like to see him moved back to 15 though, especially when Rob K is pretty much our only real option there for the foreseeable future.

The Lost Sheep · 30-12-2015 1:45pm

pickarooney wrote: »

Is anyone getting a bit of a Madigan feeling about Henshaw? Loads of talent but not really nailing down a fixed position and there are talented players coming through at 12, 13 and 15 meaning he might struggle to make a place his own.

No and thinking that is nonsense. I don't see any ways how he will struggle to make a place of his own. He's a more natural 13 and only really played 12 with Ireland. Don't see how he isn't nailing down a fixed position and don't see how its an issue that he's playing across several positions

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Well exactly. Just first choice for his country for a single year. When opportunity opened wide as we had two long term centre legends fade from the scene effectively together.
Whereas Madser had Sexy in situ in both Leinster and Ireland with the MOC shambles bringing in J Gop (who I liked btw - equally as badly treated by MOC as Mads), and switching them every 10 minutes without a clue what he wanted either of them to do.
Henchie is by no means cemented in the team at all, and pressure is there. I could see him drop out for a few years, then come back solidly as a full back as Gorgeous Rob declines.

He was being groomed into the position. ODriscoll guiding him in his last season in Irish camp etc
Henshaw is cemented in the team. Madigan is several years older and very different to RH

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

It'll be interesting to see what happens with Henshaw in the Irish set up if McCloskey and Ringrose continue to develop the way they have this season. Maybe it won't happen in 2016 but sooner or later we could have two top quality specialist centres available for selection and it doesn't make a lot of sense to leave one out for a guy who is playing out of position. Of course Henshaw could also continue to develop and then you've got a real headache. I'd really like to see him moved back to 15 though, especially when Rob K is pretty much our only real option there for the foreseeable future.

Henshaw isn't playing out of position though. He's every bit as much a centre as a full back.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 30-12-2015 2:28pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Henshaw isn't playing out of position though. He's every bit as much a centre as a full back.

He never plays 12 at Connacht, as far as I'm aware and I think maybe only started playing 13 there after Schmidt decided he was a centre. Could be wrong on the second part but he is technically playing out of position at 12.

connemara man · 30-12-2015 2:35pm

Henshaw started at 15 when Gavin Duffy got injured. Was earmarked as BODs successor started running lines in Ireland camp under the tutilage of BOD and Darcy. started playing 13 for Connacht and ended up playing 12 for Ireland this season has played FB for Connacht as we Lam didn't want to unsettle his current partnership.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 30-12-2015 2:42pm

Just to be clear now I don't have a problem with Henshaw in the centre I just wonder would he not be better utilised at FB given how hard up we (Ireland) are for players there and the potential wealth of talent we have coming up at 12 and 13. The same question arises if he goes to Leinster. Presumably he'd be eyed as a 12 in partnership with Ringrose. Which would negate the Irish question if he was actually playing 12 week in week out.

Munster vs Leinster buildup

Comments