Do people need to be Incentivised to work?

Kev W · 11-12-2015 02:16PM

smash wrote: »

No. Just make benefits a whole lot less attractive.

How? Without punishing the honest people on benefits just as badly?

smash · 11-12-2015 02:16PM

manonboard wrote: »

Smash, I think Kev is just looking for a argument on anything you are going to state. Its been non stop since the start and its about as constructive as spam.

I know.

the evasion_kid · 11-12-2015 02:16PM

manonboard wrote: »

Its a very common lie. I think people spend crazy amounts of time trying to make thier future better whilst avoiding the present. Its a tough lesson to learn but one which greatly helped me. Its all about balance.

people are too caught up in consumerism and working their socks off to buy a lot of useless crap,i live very minimally and the money i save goes towards travel,experiences and memories,put it this way if i died tommorow id die happy that ive lived a good life up to that point...

Magico Gonzalez · 11-12-2015 02:20PM

People returning to work should get some temporary tax breaks.

smash · 11-12-2015 02:21PM

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

People returning to work should get some temporary tax breaks.

I hope this is a wind up...

Kev W · 11-12-2015 02:21PM

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

People returning to work should get some temporary tax breaks.

Never heard that suggested before, that's a decent idea.

Mesrine65 · 11-12-2015 02:23PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

There's no dignity in doing something against your will.

There's no dignity in not being able to provide for your family or taking a handout...

I'd rather work doing something I have no passion for than not work.

ComfortKid · 11-12-2015 02:24PM

neris wrote:

maybe its time then to cut & scrap some of those benefits then make it more costly to stay on the dole

Or pay people who do work a decent wage. I went off the dole for a minimum wage job, work my bollox off and I'm coming out with 100e less than I was on the dole when you count in travel costs and rent allowance.

People who think their purpose in life is to work, have serious mental health issues.

Swiftly · 11-12-2015 02:27PM

Samaris wrote: »

Okay, I know where this thread will go. It'll go on about bashing lazy dolers and people who've never worked a day in their lives.

So here's my story. A year ago, I came back to Ireland. I have two good qualifications (excellent qualifications in fact), and in England I was working three jobs concurrently (yeah, it made for some interesting juggling - day, evening and weekend if anyone's wondering). Various things collided and we came back here. And I could not get work. I thought I had something lined up when I came back, but it fell through. In terms of my qualifications, I'm in the catch-22 position of I have all the theoretical knowledge of a graduate (and post-grad at that), but I don't have the practical experience that employers want.

I have a long-term illness, probably two actually but the effects can be hard to tell apart. I'm not disabled and although it was suggested I apply for disability, I don't think it would be healthy for me. And yeah, I'm miserable out of work. My routine is lousy, I fight for motivation when I get turned down or get no replies. And it actually hurts when I see in thread after thread that people think people like me are scum.

I'm fighting my corner, but it's a slow battle, against depression and against the dread lethargy of no set routine, limited human interaction and rejections along with the lovely feeling of worthlessness. I study to try keep myself going and apply for jobs, but it's not enough. I need a purpose in life, as you said. But the longer you're out of work, the harder it becomes to get back into it. It's a nasty spiral and it leads nowhere good.

Hang in there. Not everyone thinks people who are unemployed are scum and the people who do usual spend their whole day moaning and complaining about others because they hate their own life or have nothing better to do or most likely both. And who cares you'll be happy again and they'll still be the same old miserable moaners. I'm sure you'll find work soon. Best of luck

mahoganygas · 11-12-2015 02:32PM

HR studies in motivation are quite interesting.

What motivates workers? Surprisingly wages is almost always down the bottom of the list of responses.

Depending on which study you look at - workers prefer things like flexible working hours, non-financial benefits, different management styles, certain workplace cultures, social factors in the workplace, feeling needed, feeling like they are making a difference etc.

So if money doesn't necessarily motivate workers, then why do we assume that it will motivate non-workers?

Often these debates on 'dole scroungers' focuses on money. "Stop claiming benefits and go out and earn money instead."

Are unemployed people remaining out of the workforce because they simply don't want more money? Low-skilled, low-waged jobs by their nature can be mundane for most people. I'd struggle to remain motivated in one of these jobs.

Mr. CooL ICE · 11-12-2015 02:35PM

Kev W wrote: »

Yes, because it was irrelevant.

Kev W wrote: »

Well that's two people now. What percentage is that?

Kev W wrote: »

OK, so what's to be done about it?

Mod:

Enough

Mesrine65 · 11-12-2015 02:36PM

HR studies be damned...

I work for the financial gain, end of!

ComfortKid · 11-12-2015 02:40PM

Mesrine65 wrote:

I work for the financial gain, end of!

As does everyone weather they admit it our not.

Valetta · 11-12-2015 02:42PM

Just implement the rules as they are at the moment.

In order to receive JSA or JSB, you must be available for, and actively seeking work.

It's against the law to be a "doler" by choice.

stefanovich · 11-12-2015 02:44PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

In certain situations it would cost you money to come off the dole and lose all benefits to take a low paying job

This is exactly the problem. Fix this.

steddyeddy · 11-12-2015 02:49PM

Has anyone any studies on the relationship between motivation to work and financial gain?

mahoganygas · 11-12-2015 02:52PM

steddyeddy wrote:

Has anyone any studies on the relationship between motivation to work and financial gain?

I read a paper that compared the data from dozens of these studies since the 60's to see what was changing over time. It also looked at specific industries, skill levels and socio-economic groups.

I can't for the life of me remember the author. I'll dig out my old college laptop tonight and try find it.

Tasden · 11-12-2015 02:52PM

Having been on social welfare and experiencing the disincentives first hand, it's not just about having it "easier" on benefits and "not wanting to do a hard days work". And its not about reducing welfare rates to make it less attractive either.

I was on jobseekers for some time after my contract ended. I was willing to work anywhere. Plenty of jobs were low paid but paying more than the dole. But in order to work full time i had to pay for childcare which then means my income is significantly lower than the dole after paying that out. Working round school hours wasn't something most employers want from part time employees, they wanted fully flexible or hours outside of school time.
There was a childcare grant available for people on welfare who return to work but after one year of that you're on your own and back to square one.
I would've made it work and I was blessed that I got a job that pays well in the end (which I love). But stuff like that is more of a disincentive for people imo than the dole being too high or people being work shy. And obviously if people are claiming secondary benefits like rent supplement and medical card etc then that is a huge disincentive. The 30 hour rent supplement rule is a joke and the main disincentive to work imo. And the housing assistance payment was supposed to overcome that but the problem with that is the claimant is then removed from the housing list which obviously creates another disincentive.

There are a lot of schemes for people returning to work from claiming jsa though that many people aren't aware of. Mainly for the long term unemployed though. But not all.

KomradeBishop · 11-12-2015 02:58PM

If a persons work is personally fulfilling, I don't think they need to be incentivized to work - but almost all work involves some element of tasks/details that, from time to time, are quite tedious and would be something people would avoid if given the choice (just a normal part of most jobs).

So it's not a binary thing - and the role of management in companies is partially to act as a whip, to make sure work gets done (anyone who has been self-employed, may know the pitfalls of it if you're not the highly motivated type) - although that said, the way management is currently constructed in companies, is in my view, highly surplus to what's required.

That's probably taking the question in the OP a bit further than how it was intended though: As far as just having a job, I believe that everyone is ok with that so long as it's either personally fulfilling or simply tolerable - and are ready to do their part.

This is one reason why I am in favour of ideas like government being 'employer of last resort' - if a program like that was put in place, it would destroy the myth of people being unwilling to work - and I think it's a massive injustice and great indignity, to deliberately allow so many people to remain involuntarily unemployed for so long, when there are workable alternatives.

KomradeBishop · 11-12-2015 03:03PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well it perplexes me the way people wouldn't pursue a job they love.

If there aren't enough jobs to go around - and modern economies are built so that there are never enough jobs to go around (even the methods by which 'full employment' are measured, I don't think accurately rule-out involuntary unemployment - so when we are in 'full employment', often there is still at least some involuntary unemployment) - then not everyone can choose the work they do, some will have to settle for work they dislike and which may be greatly unfulfilling.

triple nipple · 11-12-2015 03:06PM

Maximus Alexander wrote:

They say that money can't buy love, so, I suppose, you could try paying people in love?

Or Dinosaurs

intheclouds · 11-12-2015 03:11PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I don't get why someone would spend half their waking life doing something they hate in this day and age. Vassals, serfs and slaves would make a better fist of things than some people in the modern age, I just don't understand the mentality

Why? So that I can live in a nice house, have expensive hobbies, go on luxury holidays, drink expensive alcohol, maintain an expensive gym membership, pay for more education, have health insurance......

The list goes on. On the dole I wouldnt be able to do the above so I work so that I can.

The Backwards Man · 11-12-2015 03:33PM

intheclouds wrote: »

Why? So that I can live in a nice house, have expensive hobbies, go on luxury holidays, drink expensive alcohol, maintain an expensive gym membership, pay for more education, have health insurance......

The list goes on. On the dole I wouldnt be able to do the above so I work so that I can.

Is doing something that makes you miserable worth all that though? To me it wouldn't be.

I'm no good to my employer, my work colleagues and the people I encounter through work. I'm no good to my friends and family who have to put up with me. And most importantly, I'm no good to myself.

intheclouds · 11-12-2015 03:37PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Is doing something that makes you miserable worth all that though? To me it wouldn't be.

I'm no good to my employer, my work colleagues and the people I encounter through work. I'm no good to my friends and family who have to put up with me. And most importantly, I'm no good to myself.

Im not miserable though. I just hate having to work.

Im very good at what I do so I am good to my employer, I have a naturally good disposition so I am good to my friends and family. I use the money I earn to do things for myself so I am good to myself.

Now, all that said, I was be ABSOLUTELY ECSTATIC if you handed me a large sum of money and told me I never have to work again.

If I had a miserable life outside of work i would not be able to tolerate work. Its because i have a good life that I can put up with having to work.

But I do not understand anyone who WANTS to work. Why?

Dick phelan · 11-12-2015 03:54PM

A minority of people on welfare do, however the way welfare is portrayed in the media it makes people think those on welfare are lazy and it's their fault for being unemployed, very rarely is that the case i'v found.

maudgonner · 11-12-2015 03:55PM

I work freelance in an industry where there can frequently be fallow periods when jobs are hard to come by. Invariably I will have a couple of months a year when I'm out of work.

This suits me down to the ground. I have time off to do the things I love to do, recharge the batteries, and by the time the next job rolls around I'm chomping at the bit and ready to work the 16-18 hour days it demands. After 6 months of working at that pace I'm only dying for the next quiet period to roll around

When I'm off work I don't claim the dole. (I'm a self-employed contractor, so it would be hard to anyway, but that's for another thread!). I'm lucky enough that I can budget to get by without it if I make some serious sacrifices. The way I look at it, it's my choice to work in this industry as a freelancer, so I'm not going to ask the State to finance me. That way I can enjoy my time off guilt-free. And I do - I really love having that time to myself. And I've never been the type of person who put much store by having a fancy car or the latest iPhone, that just doesn't give me pleasure. My ultimate luxury is having time to myself to do as I please.

It wouldn't work for everyone, and in fact it may not work for me for much longer (the lure of a steady paycheck is getting more and more tempting), but everyone's different. I reckon if you can find a way that makes you happy (whether that's working a job-for-life-9-to-5 or giving up the rat-race and trying to make it as a rockstar), as long as you don't expect other people to finance your lifestyle then more power to you!

Maximus Alexander · 11-12-2015 04:00PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I don't get why someone would spend half their waking life doing something they hate in this day and age. Vassals, serfs and slaves would make a better fist of things than some people in the modern age, I just don't understand the mentality

That's a pretty bizarre thing to say. There's not much to 'get', really.

Escorts, fast cars and coke aren't free. Nobody is going to pay me to snort coke, ride escorts and drive fast cars. Ergo, I have to spend some of my time doing other things to fund that lifestyle.

the evasion_kid · 11-12-2015 04:06PM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

That's a pretty bizarre thing to say. There's not much to 'get', really.

Escorts, fast cars and coke aren't free. Nobody is going to pay me to snort coke, ride escorts and drive fast cars. Ergo, I have to spend some of my time doing other things to fund that lifestyle.

you could always join a mexican cartel...

RayM · 11-12-2015 05:18PM

stefanovich wrote: »

This is exactly the problem. Fix this.

Unfortunately, those who believe that the gap between social welfare payments and wages is too narrow are quite often the same kind of people who object to the very existence of a minimum wage, let alone a living wage.

Kev W · 11-12-2015 06:11PM

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

Mod:

Enough

Am I not allowed to ask questions?

Do people need to be Incentivised to work?

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