Do people need to be Incentivised to work?

steddyeddy

You see it again and again on some threads. Some posters use the term "incentivise people to work" in relation to social welfare ect.

This is something alien to me as I have to be happy to work. Even being on holidays for long periods of time drives me mad. I think most people are unhappy if they have no purpose in life. Why do some people assume that huge numbers of people would not work if they just got wages for nothing?

Jim Bob Scratcher

Dole thread ? Haven't had one of them in awhile :rolleyes:

Son Of A Vidic

Money always helps.

SEPT 23 1989

In certain situations it would cost you money to come off the dole and lose all benefits to take a low paying job

The_Valeyard

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Money always helps.

Money to help me survive and pay bills, motivates me.

Tiddlypeeps

At the height of the boom we had one of the most generous welfare systems in Europe and almost full employment.

BattleCorp

I've two mortgages. That's all the incentive I need to keep working.

smash

steddyeddy wrote: »

You see it again and again on some threads. Some posters use the term "incentivise people to work" in relation to social welfare ect.

A percentage of people on social welfare are happy not to work. They don't see it as a necessity because they get everything from the state so in this regard there are literally no incentives for them to work.

Samaris

steddyeddy wrote: »

You see it again and again on some threads. Some posters use the term "incentivise people to work" in relation to social welfare ect.

This is something alien to me as I have to be happy to work. Even being on holidays for long periods of time drives me mad. I think most people are unhappy if they have no purpose in life. Why do some people assume that huge numbers of people would not work if they just got wages for nothing?

Okay, I know where this thread will go. It'll go on about bashing lazy dolers and people who've never worked a day in their lives.

So here's my story. A year ago, I came back to Ireland. I have two good qualifications (excellent qualifications in fact), and in England I was working three jobs concurrently (yeah, it made for some interesting juggling - day, evening and weekend if anyone's wondering). Various things collided and we came back here. And I could not get work. I thought I had something lined up when I came back, but it fell through. In terms of my qualifications, I'm in the catch-22 position of I have all the theoretical knowledge of a graduate (and post-grad at that), but I don't have the practical experience that employers want.

I have a long-term illness, probably two actually but the effects can be hard to tell apart. I'm not disabled and although it was suggested I apply for disability, I don't think it would be healthy for me. And yeah, I'm miserable out of work. My routine is lousy, I fight for motivation when I get turned down or get no replies. And it actually hurts when I see in thread after thread that people think people like me are scum.

I'm fighting my corner, but it's a slow battle, against depression and against the dread lethargy of no set routine, limited human interaction and rejections along with the lovely feeling of worthlessness. I study to try keep myself going and apply for jobs, but it's not enough. I need a purpose in life, as you said. But the longer you're out of work, the harder it becomes to get back into it. It's a nasty spiral and it leads nowhere good.

Kev W

smash wrote: »

A percentage of people on social welfare are happy not to work. They don't see it as a necessity because they get everything from the state so in this regard there are literally no incentives for them to work.

Can you be more specific? "A percentage" can mean 99%, just one individual or any point in between.

Captain Chaos

Kev W wrote: »

"A percentage" can mean 99%, just one individual or any point in between.

Exactly, that's why the term was used because no one knows the number.

smash

Kev W wrote: »

Can you be more specific? "A percentage" can mean 99%, just one individual or any point in between.

No I can't be more specific because if you give any figure or even mention the words majority or minority you'll have some dickhead who'll object and moan and whine and go on about the 'vulnerable' in society and other such rubbish.

King George VI

I agree with you, OP in that I don't like having nothing to do. I like going to work and I enjoy my job. On top of that I'm on a decent wage so it doesn't make sense for me to be on the rock and roll.

BUT, some people are better off on the dole than they would be working at what's most likely to be the best job they can get: a low paying job. They get 188 or whatever it is per week for doing absolutely nothing. Coupled with all the extras like rent allowance/child benefit etc that's available to a lot of people. Not counting benefit cheats (fuck those guys amirite?) but in regards to the people getting loads on welfare through legitimate means. Some people clear more than I earn on the welfare. Why would they give up all that to work 40 hours per week in a low paying job and have to pay tax on it?

When you break it down it comes down to no work - free time - free money. Sounds good.

Kev W

smash wrote: »

No I can't be more specific because if you give any figure or even mention the words majority or minority you'll have some dickhead who'll object and moan and whine and go on about the 'vulnerable' in society and other such rubbish.

So you actually do have a figure, or at least an indicator of majority/minority you just don't want to share it because people might say mean things to you?

Tiddlypeeps

smash wrote: »

No I can't be more specific because if you give any figure or even mention the words majority or minority you'll have some dickhead who'll object and moan and whine and go on about the 'vulnerable' in society and other such rubbish.

So what your saying is you can't even remotely back up what you are saying and all you really want to do is soap box?

Dave_The_Sheep

A purpose in life doesn't necessarily mean work. It can mean a time consuming hobby. Caring for a loved one. Volunteering with a local organisation, or one not so local.

If you, OP, go mad when you're on holidays for too long - then you need to get a hobby, or try something new. Or maybe it's just that work is what does it for you. Fair enough. Everyone isn't the same. If I got wages (good enough wages) for nothing, of course I wouldn't work - unless I worked at something I loved doing, which I don't.

There's the crux of it: If you genuinely love what you do for a living, then of course you don't need to be incentivised.

Kev W

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

So what your saying is you can't even remotely back up what you are saying and all you really want to do is soap box?

While moaning about soapboxing from others, don't forget.

BattleCorp

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

So what your saying is you can't even remotely back up what you are saying and all you really want to do is soap box?

One of my cousins out of a group of 10 has no interest in work. He thinks we are stupid for working when he lazes around on the dole, drinking the week away.

So, anecdotally, that's 10% of my close relations that don't want to work.

Is that figure any good to you?

smash

Kev W wrote: »

So you actually do have a figure, or at least an indicator of majority/minority you just don't want to share it because people might say mean things to you?

Do I have a figure? No
Do I know if its a majority number? No
Do I know if its a minority number? No

Are there these kinds of people out there? Yes, so therefore there is a percentage.

Are you the dickhead who's about to "object and moan and whine and go on about the 'vulnerable' in society and other such rubbish" I don't know. Up to you...

Edit: response can also be used for Tiddlypeeps

Maximus Alexander

The majority of people don't work because they like it. They do it for the incentive... their salary. Since money can buy pretty much anything else, I'm not sure what other incentive you could offer.

They say that money can't buy love, so, I suppose, you could try paying people in love?

Kev W

smash wrote: »

Do I have a figure? No
Do I know if its a majority number? No
Do I know if its a minority number? No

Are there these kinds of people out there? Yes, so therefore there is a percentage.

Are you the dickhead who's about to "object and moan and whine and go on about the 'vulnerable' in society and other such rubbish" I don't know. Up to you...

Edit: response can also be used for Tiddlypeeps

But how relevant is it if you don't know how many are doing it?

Kev W

BattleCorp wrote: »

One of my cousins out of a group of 10 has no interest in work. He thinks we are stupid for working when he lazes around on the dole, drinking the week away.

So, anecdotally, that's 10% of my close relations that don't want to work.

Is that figure any good to you?

No. It's too small a sample size to be statistically relevant.

smash

Kev W wrote: »

But how relevant is it if you don't know how many are doing it?

It's relevant because it's true. There are people out there who don't need to work because they're happy to live on subsidies. It doesn't matter how many do it, what matters is that there are people who do it.

Knasher

I do wonder, if you are somebody who has been unemployed for a while. You've been on a waiting list for housing for a while too, gotten your benefits sorted and are kinda just ticking over. Wouldn't it be easy to see getting a job as a massive gamble, if it doesn't work out then you loose your income, you probably don't have much in savings, and it might take a while to get back on benefits. I'd imagine you probably loose your place on housing lists, and have to start from scratch again.

I've been fortunate enough to never be on benefits, so I don't know a lot about it though. But if it works the way I think, I could definitely understand if it were seen as a disincentive to work.

Kev W

smash wrote: »

It's relevant because it's true. There are people out there who don't need to work because they're happy to live on subsidies. It doesn't matter how many do it, what matters is that there are people who do it.

Why does it matter?

Tiddlypeeps

smash wrote: »

Do I have a figure? No
Do I know if its a majority number? No
Do I know if its a minority number? No

Are there these kinds of people out there? Yes, so therefore there is a percentage.

Are you the dickhead who's about to "object and moan and whine and go on about the 'vulnerable' in society and other such rubbish" I don't know. Up to you...

Edit: response can also be used for Tiddlypeeps

Why are you even on a discussion board? You are unwilling to discuss your view other than stating it and before anyone has even contested it you are stating that anyone who disagrees with you is a dickhead.

You very clearly don't want to discuss the topic so why bother posting at all?

steddyeddy

smash wrote: »

A percentage of people on social welfare are happy not to work. They don't see it as a necessity because they get everything from the state so in this regard there are literally no incentives for them to work.

But that cannot be the norm. I don't think it's normal psychology.

donegaLroad

it depends..

if your survival depended on it, then that would be a good incentive.

If the material needs of your family depended on it, that would not be a good incentive.

The Backwards Man

If you're lucky enough to be getting paid for doing something you enjoy, no more incentive is needed.

BattleCorp

The Backwards Man wrote: »

If you're lucky enough to be getting paid for doing something you enjoy, no more incentive is needed.

I think there's a very big percentage of people who do their job because they have to, rather than because they enjoy it.

Mesrine65

Do people need to be Incentivised to work?

Yes...a fair days work for a fair days pay & a little dignity & respect in the workplace wouldn't go amiss.

smash

Kev W wrote: »

Why does it matter?

Because they're the kind of people for whom there is no incentive to work...

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Why are you even on a discussion board? You are unwilling to discuss your view other than stating it and before anyone has even contested it you are stating that anyone who disagrees with you is a dickhead.

You very clearly don't want to discuss the topic so why bother posting at all?

I've no problem discussing it, I have an issue with people coming looking for facts and figures when none are needed. BattleCorp gave an example of a person he knows who is like this, so even if it's only one person (and we all know it's more) then the statement is true and can't be argued.

steddyeddy wrote: »

But that cannot be the norm. I don't think it's normal psychology.

I never said it was the norm, I said it happens.

manonboard

steddyeddy wrote: »

Even being on holidays for long periods of time drives me mad. I think most people are unhappy if they have no purpose in life.

This bit perplexes me and i think its very odd for most people.
I cannot relate to how some people think thier purpose in life is a job?

If its some passion, sure. But most have jobs that are no passions? How is this so much as a purpose?

My purpose in life is to enjoy it. I do that by being very social with my friends and family. Hobbies, Learning. Experiencing things.
A job (which i do enjoy some aspects of) is just to fund this lifestyle.

I think alot of people who are not working and dont want to, are not 'fulfilled' by a job. I can't disagree with thier logic. Most jobs are not something you'd do for free.

I'm scared when i think and hear of people who say they basically get depressed when retirement happens. I think that points to a massive psychological issue that our society promotes. People so incapable of filling thier own time by choice.. that they cease to function well?
Life is very short.. its a very odd aspect of modern day culture.

the evasion_kid

ive a mate getting 305 euro a week for doing crazy shifts,i can see him slowly losing the incentive...

steddyeddy

manonboard wrote: »

This bit perplexes me and i think its very odd for most people.
I cannot relate to how some people think thier purpose in life is a job?

If its some passion, sure. But most have jobs that are no passions? How is this so much as a purpose?

My purpose in life is to enjoy it. I do that by being very social with my friends and family. Hobbies, Learning. Experiencing things.
A job (which i do enjoy some aspects of) is just to fund this lifestyle.

I think alot of people who are not working and dont want to, are not 'fulfilled' by a job. I can't disagree with thier logic. Most jobs are not something you'd do for free.

Well it perplexes me the way people wouldn't pursue a job they love.

Phoebas

steddyeddy wrote: »

But that cannot be the norm. I don't think it's normal psychology.

Depends on what the choices are.

If its a choice between state dependence and a well paid, interesting job then its a no brainer.

If its a choice between state dependence and a factory job sticking giblets up chickens arses for eight hours a day for not much extra then its a bit more difficult.

Now, excuse me. I need to get back to the production line.

Kev W

smash wrote: »

I've no problem discussing it, I have an issue with people coming looking for facts and figures when none are needed.

Facts aren't needed?

smash

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well it perplexes me the way people wouldn't pursue a job they love.

For most people a job funds a lifestyle where as doing a job they'd be passionate about would require taking a substantial pay cut or even no pay.

The Backwards Man

BattleCorp wrote: »

I think there's a very big percentage of people who do their job because they have to, rather than because they enjoy it.

Eejits, as I like to call them.:pac:

smash

Kev W wrote: »

Facts aren't needed?

A fact was provided by another poster but you dismissed it.

manonboard

smash wrote: »

It's relevant because it's true. There are people out there who don't need to work because they're happy to live on subsidies. It doesn't matter how many do it, what matters is that there are people who do it.

just fyi, I've dipped in and out of this category several times in my years. There are many many like me. Most stay or leave the category for long periods of time. I'd be more a tourist to both. I can survive almost as easily without a job. However I am infact happier during them times.

Never been a material person. Very active mentally and socially and physically. No substance abuse or drinking habits. etc etc. Just like experiencing each day with whatever comes to it.
I find my mental health is much better like this than a regular 9-5.

manonboard

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well it perplexes me the way people wouldn't pursue a job they love.

Thats a valid point alright.

Certainly one that happens alot. Infact i say the majority of the time judging my friends/family/coworkers ive experienced.
Most just want to survive and not work. I think they just find a job that 'does' and thats it.
Its a bit sad, but in todays society, I can see how it easily happens. Fear is a big factor in how we are encouraged to do things. Worries constantly promoted.

Kev W

smash wrote: »

A fact was provided by another poster but you dismissed it.

Yes, because it was irrelevant.

intheclouds

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well it perplexes me the way people wouldn't pursue a job they love.

There is no job Id love. I hate having to work.

However, the lifestyle I wish to have requires good money so I work to achieve that.

If I won money Id immediately quit my job. I dont go mad at all if I am off for a couple of week - I was redundant for a few months and it was the happiest period of my adult life.

Work sucks. Making grey haired old men richer while sucking the life out of me and not giving me enough time to do the things I like doing.

I genuinely cannot think of any job that I would love, fundamentally, it would always be a job, a think I am forced to do for economic reasons - so it would suck.

neris

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

In certain situations it would cost you money to come off the dole and lose all benefits to take a low paying job

maybe its time then to cut & scrap some of those benefits then make it more costly to stay on the dole

Mesrine65

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Eejits, as I like to call them.:pac:

Economic survivors trying to maintain some personal dignity, I like to think

smash

Kev W wrote: »

Yes, because it was irrelevant.

Well manonboard has just stated in post #41 that the category of people do exist, in fact he has dipped in and out of the category on several occasions. How does that sit with you?

the evasion_kid

i just work for a period of time and then travel on the money ive saved....life is too short to be stuck in a mind numbing soul destroying job.

The Backwards Man

intheclouds wrote: »

There is no job Id love. I hate having to work.

However, the lifestyle I wish to have requires good money so I work to achieve that.

If I won money Id immediately quit my job. I dont go mad at all if I am off for a couple of week - I was redundant for a few months and it was the happiest period of my adult life.

Work sucks. Making grey haired old men richer while sucking the life out of me and not giving me enough time to do the things I like doing.

I genuinely cannot think of any job that I would love, fundamentally, it would always be a job, a think I am forced to do for economic reasons - so it would suck.

I don't get why someone would spend half their waking life doing something they hate in this day and age. Vassals, serfs and slaves would make a better fist of things than some people in the modern age, I just don't understand the mentality

The Backwards Man

Mesrine65 wrote: »

Economic survivors trying to maintain some personal dignity, I like to think

There's no dignity in doing something against your will.

manonboard

the evasion_kid wrote: »

i just work for a period of time and then travel on the money ive saved....life is too short to be stuck in a mind numbing soul destroying job.

I think that is a great usage of the work concept. Its a use as it needs to be used, rather than you being used by it and having your life dictated by it. Kudos to your bravery and lifestyle.