Breastfeeding Mom in restaurant stare off...

mckar wrote: »

I breastfed 3 of my kids and only lasted a month on first two the 3rd one was a success if I had of been more comfortable with all of them it would never of been an issue society needs to stop judging woman that feed in public. I felt so uncomfortable because of others getting past that is incredibly hard fare play it is a beautiful natural experience . Definitely needs more people like this making other looking to be the ones feel uncomfortable and not the mothers.

'Society' doesn't judge women who feed in public, most people don't actually care, as was seen in the photo in the opening post, none of the diners around her cared what she was doing, and as was seen in the photos lazygal linked to, nobody around them in the group shots, cared what the women were doing.

The last thing anyone needs IMO is someone like the woman in the opening post who craves attention and validation for her lifestyle choices that she goes out of her way to find someone she claims is offended by her breastfeeding (though we never see this other woman?), so she didn't make anyone feel uncomfortable, she just made people think she's an idiot that wanted to draw attention to herself, and given her description of herself on her social media profile, she obviously thinks of herself as some kind of hero, a champion for breastfeeding mothers everywhere with her co-sleeping (see the advice from the American Paediatric Association on SIDS and co-sleeping), ERF (basically she's a helicopter parent), non-vaxing (already been covered, she's an idiot for this alone)...

Seriously, the last example anyone should follow IMO is this attention seeking idiot. Their goal shouldn't be to make other people feel uncomfortable, because that's not normal, and it does nothing for other women who breastfeed in public, it only makes the person doing a stare-down while breastfeeding look like a bit of a tit.

lazza14 wrote: »

No need for that, I mean its prevalent there, just look at the fuss made when
Janet Jacksons breast was exposed at the superbowl ...

You mean the fuss made by a handful of TV executives? Because most people seemed to find it funny or not care at all.

lazza14 wrote: »

No need for that, I mean its prevalent there, just look at the fuss made when
Janet Jacksons breast was exposed at the superbowl ...

You're right, 'twas a bit harsh in hindsight, I apologise for that much, but you're after leaving me even more confused now because your original point was referring to women breastfeeding -

lazza14 wrote: »

Always amazes me how in American society a breastfeeding woman is considered bad for children to look at, yet violence on TV is perfectly ok ...

So I have no idea what Janet Jackson exposing her breast has to do with that?

You do know that Americans are the largest producer and consumer of pornography in the world?

You do know that there are many lobby groups in the US who campaign against all forms of violence in the media?

Depending upon your perspective, you could think anything was prevalent in a society of 315 million people, but that doesn't necessarily mean it actually is! This relates back to the woman in the opening post - she imagines that other people have a problem with her breastfeeding in public, but the reality is that it's all in her head. She has an issue with breastfeeding in public so she projects her own insecurity onto other people as though they're the people who have issues.

Her issues are with herself, and I'd say that to any woman who felt like she couldn't breastfeed in public because she was paranoid that people might stare at her - that's her problem with herself, her own insecurity is what is preventing her from putting her baby's necessity before the opinions of strangers.

There's no need to 'normalise' something that's already normal in society.

She could have been discreet but why should she? Breaststroke have been far too sexualized for such a long time that we forget their original function

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Really? How did you get that from the pic in the OP? I mean all I see is an attention seeking lady in an uncomfortable looking position staring off into the distance, with plenty of people around her not paying any notice to her. I don't see anyone staring at her.

There was an issue here recently enough where some hotel had refused to allow the mother feed her child now, there's a real problem. There's an issue to go mad over.

The OP doesn't just link to a pic, does it? there's a story attached.

However let's assume the story is fake and the pic staged.

Does that mean that the events of the story never happen anywhere? Is the subject not worth speaking about in that case?

Kev W wrote: »

The whole point was that someone did have a problem with her breastfeeding in public and made that known. Unless you now want to accuse her of lying or hallucinating?

Well, with no evidence, I'd suggest she could simply be mistaken.

Just because she believes someone was staring at her in disgust for breastfeeding doesn't necessarily mean it's true. They could have been staring at her in disgust for any number of reasons, they may not have been staring at her in disgust at all (the woman could simply have had an unfortunate visage), or she may not have been staring at this woman at all, but this woman claims a woman was staring at her in disgust for breastfeeding, which seems like the only logical explanation to her, based upon her own preconceived notions about other people's attitudes to women breastfeeding in public.

I can't tell you how many times I've met people who think everyone is looking at them, and it's turned out people either weren't looking at them at all, or they're completely misinterpreting the other person's expression, based upon their own insecurities about themselves.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

She should be discreet if she's actually that paranoid that she thinks other people are that interested in her breastfeeding her child. That way she wouldn't have to be looking around to see who's looking at her.

So we're back to your assumption that it was all in her head. Which is based on what again? Because unless you can back it up, maybe the idea that it's all in her head is all in your head.

Most people are aware how breasts function, but to suggest that breastfeeding is their only function, is at best lacking in imagination. The idea that a woman's breasts should only be of any value for function only, is not only reductionist, but it's puritan thinking tbh.

Might as well tell all those women who have breast augmentation surgery that they don't need it because they shouldn't see their breasts as part of their sexuality or their femininity, no - women's breasts are only for feeding babies, even if a woman chooses not to have children, that's all she should think her breasts are for...

I don't think you'll ever get much traction with that argument tbh.

You're right, which is why nobody is suggesting that that is their only function.

Kev W wrote: »

So we're back to your assumption that it was all in her head. Which is based on what again? Because unless you can back it up, maybe the idea that it's all in her head is all in your head.

Back up there Kev - she made the original claim, it's up to her to produce evidence for her claims before she should expect anyone to believe her. I have no reason to believe her, and I have every reason to believe she has any number of ulterior motives for her claims for which she has no evidence.

There's enough evidence on her social media page to suggest that she courts attention and craves validation for her lifestyle choices, which of course influence her perception of other people.

You're right, which is why nobody is suggesting that that is their only function.

Statements like the one I quoted don't seem to acknowledge any function other than feeding children.

sup_dude wrote: »

Again, that's not the way things work. The truth is, people do stare and have a problem with breast feeding. This thread is evidence of it. You'll change nothing by conforming.

This thread is evidence of the fact that most people don't actually stare at all at women breastfeeding. Just look at the original picture again - people around her aren't staring at her. Look at lazygal's pics - people aren't staring. I would say it's a tiny, tiny minority of people who have a problem with breastfeeding. I don't see that there's anything to conform to, unless you have preconceived notions that other people have a problem with breastfeeding.

But their primary function is feeding and that is exactly what they're being used to do. Why would you try and sexualise them when that's not their purpose during feeding?

What you consider their primary function is your business, but I don't consider feeding their primary function. I don't have to try and sexualise them, at any time. A woman's breasts don't suddenly become unsexy when she's breastfeeding, and my wife would be pretty miffed when she was after giving birth if I told her to her face that her breasts right now are only for feeding. I understand where you're coming from and all, but I personally don't reduce a person's humanity, their sexuality, down to such cold, biological terms.

With respect OEJ, your own argument which you keep repeating has been discredited multiple times on this thread.

Fairness now sup_dude my argument has hardly been addressed at all, which is that this woman's own attitude is the cause of her own distress. If someone has preconceived notions about other people, then naturally they're going to influence that person's judgement. Instead of addressing my argument, what some people here want to do is suggest that I have a problem with women breastfeeding in public, and argue against that instead!

Why should I have to argue against something they claim I have a problem with, when I have said numerous times already that I don't have any issue with it whatsoever? It's like those people need to believe I do have a problem with it so their own prejudices are justified. Well that's good for them, but it does nothing IMO to change people's attitudes, it only makes people dig their heels in even further.

One eyed Jack wrote:

This thread is evidence of the fact that most people don't actually stare at all at women breastfeeding. Just look at the original picture again - people around her aren't staring at her. Look at lazygal's pics - people aren't staring. I would say it's a tiny, tiny minority of people who have a problem with breastfeeding. I don't see that there's anything to conform to, unless you have preconceived notions that other people have a problem with breastfeeding.

There are been multiple posts saying how breast feeders should cover up and be discrete. There has even been one or two who have said outright that they don't like seeing breastfeeding.

One eyed Jack wrote:

What you consider their primary function is your business, but I don't consider feeding their primary function. I don't have to try and sexualise them, at any time. A woman's breasts don't suddenly become unsexy when she's breastfeeding, and my wife would be pretty miffed when she was after giving birth if I told her to her face that her breasts right now are only for feeding. I understand where you're coming from and all, but I personally don't reduce a person's humanity, their sexuality, down to such cold, biological terms.

Breasts primary reason for existing is to feed. That is not my opinion. That is exactly why they are there. That is not their only reason but that is there main reason. You may not like that, or feel it's reducing people's "humanity", but it doesn't change the fact. I think the fact that you think they exist primarily for guys to get boners is more cold than them existing to feed and nuture a child.

One eyed Jack wrote:

Fairness now sup_dude my argument has hardly been addressed at all, which is that this woman's own attitude is the cause of her own distress. If someone has preconceived notions about other people, then naturally they're going to influence that person's judgement. Instead of addressing my argument, what some people here want to do is suggest that I have a problem with women breastfeeding in public, and argue against that instead!


Why should I have to argue against something they claim I have a problem with, when I have said numerous times already that I don't have any issue with it whatsoever? It's like those people need to believe I do have a problem with it so their own prejudices are justified. Well that's good for them, but it does nothing IMO to change people's attitudes, it only makes people dig their heels in even further.

And what you're doing is assuming everyone thinks boobs are only for feeding. We are all well aware of their sexual nature. This should not affect their other, primary function (yes, primary).

It's not the idea that you have a problem with breast feeding, it's the idea that there are no people who have problems with breastfeeding and that women are just imagining things and should therefore cover up.

I can't stop staring at that photo - its a great tit

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I didn't? I addressed it as a separate point within the same post?

Looking again, yes you did. Sorry about that.

sup_dude wrote: »

There are been multiple posts saying how breast feeders should cover up and be discrete. There has even been one or two who have said outright that they don't like seeing breastfeeding.

Well of course there are, but as a proportion of the number of posters who have no issue with breastfeeding, all you can pick out are a mere handful? That handful is hardly representative of society now in fairness. You're ignoring all the people who have expressly said they have no issues at all with women breastfeeding in public!

Breasts primary reason for existing is to feed. That is not my opinion. That is exactly why they are there. That is not their only reason but that is there main reason. You may not like that, or feel it's reducing people's "humanity", but it doesn't change the fact. I think the fact that you think they exist primarily for guys to get boners is more cold than them existing to feed and nuture a child.

If you want to get all technical and reduce human beings to merely their primate biological functions, then it's the primary function of the mammary glands in females that produce milk for nutrition. You may not like the fact that other people do not agree that the primary function of their breasts is to feed children. I never suggested at all that their primary function was for guys to get boners, I suggested that women themselves see their breasts as part of their femininity and their sexuality. I think the fact you think they exist just to feed children is implying that for women with no children, their breasts are redundant, and that to me is pretty cold.

And what you're doing is assuming everyone thinks boobs are only for feeding. We are all well aware of their sexual nature. This should not affect their other, primary function (yes, primary).

I don't at all assume everyone thinks breasts are only for feeding. I know all too well that it's only a mere handful of people who think that way. Thinking of women's breasts in a sexual way doesn't at all affect their primary function, but for some women, because they think of their breasts as sexual, they see exposing their breasts as immodest, regardless of their primary function or otherwise, which is why they may feel insecure about feeding their child in public.

It's not the idea that you have a problem with breast feeding, it's the idea that there are no people who have problems with breastfeeding and that women are just imagining things and should therefore cover up.

Of course there are people who have a problem with breastfeeding, but far more people don't care either way. I'm not suggesting at all that women should cover up, I wouldn't care if women went around topless (wouldn't recommend it in this weather though), but often times people who are insecure about themselves will look around to see who's looking at them, and they'll catch the eye of someone who will wonder what they're looking at, and then begins the stare-down. I'm suggesting that if someone is that insecure about themselves, then they probably should cover up. That's not telling breastfeeding women to cover up, it's suggesting that people who are insecure about themselves should probably cover up if they're insecure about people looking at them when they're not covered up.

I'm saying that insecure people should examine their own attitudes to other people rather than assume other people have any interest in them whatsoever.