Breastfeeding Mom in restaurant stare off...

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Try telling them that and they will come back at you with your own attitude -

"I'm not doing anything wrong, I'm entitled to stare if I want, if you have a problem with it, that's your problem, not mine".

Now, not for a minute am I excusing people staring, but what I'm trying to get across to you is the consequences of the attitude that someone thinks they need have no consideration for other people - they're going to get exactly the same attitude back.
Of course it's not right, but some people will decide what's right and wrong for themselves, and put their own feelings ahead of others. Some people will be considerate of other people, and that can apply to any scenario you like.

You seem stuck on the idea that a woman breastfeeding in public is being inconsiderate. She is not.

We're not animals who need to walk around naked in public either, but do people have a right to do it? Some people think they do, and fcuk what anyone else thinks, nudity is the most natural thing in the world, right? Anyone who has a problem with it, they're the people with the problem.

Those people are wrong though, because public nudity is illegal. Public breastfeeding is not. So the comparison doesn't really stand up.

The point is, most women who are breastfeeding in public, you wouldn't even know they're doing it, and I fully support women who choose to breastfeed. What I don't support, is attention seeking behavior. I guess it just comes down to a judgment call in each individual scenario whether someone isn't looking to draw attention to themselves, or they are.

As I said from the beginning of this thread - attention seeker seeks attention, and gets it. There's really nothing more to this story.

(I read the article underneath the picture, and it didn't change my opinion that this woman was more concerned with making a statement about women breastfeeding in public, than she was about just simply feeding her child and getting on with her day)

You really are stuck on your assumption that this woman went looking for attention.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

And that's fine, play on.

The people staring don't feel like they're doing anything wrong either, so they don't feel any consideration for her is warranted.

You will have to take it up with them not me then, as I am commenting in general on things like breast feeding and PDAs and the like. I said nothing about staring.

It is you coming into this thread about breast feeding talking about showing consideration to others. Yet you have not shown any consideration is warranted.

Deleted User wrote: »

She has a blog on the subject and she has set up Intactalactavist Mama...so she may have had good reasons to want attention and a confrontation or story. Not that this means the other person could stare at her, but think her angle should be pointed out too.

Conversely, since she has a blog on the subject of course she's going to tell the story. If you have a blog on a subject you write about your experiences with that subject.

Ally Dick wrote: »

She should have worn a poncho/shawl and fed the baby under it

As has been pointed out:

a) she shouldn't need to

b) not everybody can.

Ally Dick wrote: »

She should have worn a poncho/shawl and fed the baby under it

It's okay, the bad, naughty breast isn't going to detach and come after you, even if it's not restrained by a shawl.

Tbh, I'd put the comfort of the baby and the parent over the rather ridiculous disgust of whoever this mysterious other patron was.

Breastfeeding in public is perfectly legal in Ireland (and in most other western cultures), end of.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

You seem to be stuck on the idea that I have a problem with women breastfeeding in public. I don't, I never have, and I never will.

Yet you repeatedly say the breastfeeding mother is being "inconsiderate".

Within the context of people doing what they feel they should be entitled to do regardless of any consideration for other people, the comparison absolutely stands up.

Except breastfeeding is not something a mother "feels that she should be entitled to do", it's something she is entitled to do. By law. Unlike public nudity. So the comparison does not stand.

There's plenty was illegal in the past and people still did it regardless of whether or not it was illegal, so making the point that something is illegal, is the point that doesn't stand up when it comes to some people's attitudes that they are entitled to do what they want regardless of consideration for other people.

You still haven't demonstrated why a breastfeeding mother should consider anything but the fact that her child is hungry.

Considering she admits herself that she engaged in a "stare-off", it's a valid interpretation of her motives.

How so? The other person was still the one to initiate. If they had have minded their own business there would have been no problem.

As far as I'm concerned, all she's done is made it that much harder for other women to breastfeed in public because they'll feel like they can't without someone staring at them, when in fact most people aren't actually all that interested in what other people are doing.

Interesting theory.

I'll put that to the women on the thread:

Do you feel like this story would make you

a) less comfortable with breastfeeding publicly
b) more comfortable with it or
b) no different?

NachoBusiness wrote: »

How about totally naked, Kev? How about a woman that takes all her clothes off in Burger King just to breastfeed and takes some selfies while she's at it. I know it won't happen, but if it did, would you considerate that inconsiderate? Or is it that once a woman's nipple is insider her child's mouth she becomes incapable of being inconsiderate? That seems to be what you're, rather naively, suggesting.

While we're being ridiculous, what if there was a bomb in her boob and the only thing that kept it from going off was if she breastfed right at that moment? And this was the one time she forgot to bring her collapsible Breastfeeding Tent?

She did. Quite clearly. Many like her too. One did it on the cover of Time.

https://twitter.com/MrNachoBusiness/status/674230275694583809

OH NO! ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE! MY ONE WEAKNESS! SJW POWERS... FADING! I'M MELTIIIIIING!

NachoBusiness wrote: »

She did. Quite clearly. Many like her too. One did it on the cover of Time.

https://twitter.com/MrNachoBusiness/status/674230275694583809

A woman beast feeding wouldn't bother me at all but this picture is horrendous. This is just attention seeking plain and simple. This young lad must be at least 5,well passed the age where he should be exclusively on solid nutrition.
Also, scarla for him when his friends pull this out at his 21st!

Samaris wrote: »

Others might react in a more belligerant way, breastfeeding in an entirely "screw you" manner and daring anyone to take umbrage with their legal and natural right to do so, and still others might try to feed their baby with a ridiculous tent of shawls and scarves and the like just so the nosey can't get involved.

This, exactly this, is what I'm trying to get across to people. It's not the act of breastfeeding at all that bothers me. It's the attitude, the "stare-down", the "I'm now going to focus on staring you down because you're staring at me" kind of thing.

This woman could easily have done what most people around her were doing - ignore someone staring at her, like most people were ignoring her breastfeeding. She went out of her way to make a point that was literally so, so unnecessary IMO.

NachoBusiness wrote: »

How is it daft when it's exactly the issue here. I am attempting to find out if Kev is willing to agree that yes, it is possible for a woman to be inconsiderate whilst in the act of breastfeeding. If he does that, then it is just a matter of finding out where the line is for him and believe it or not he will then show himself to broadly be in agreement with most people on the thread which he is arguing with. So far though, he seems to be just acting as if it is impossible for women to be inconsiderate while breastfeeding. That somehow the very act itself means the woman must be angelic.

Quite honestly, I don't see what your point is. Of course one can be inconsiderate while doing pretty much anything, and I certainly didn't read Kev's comments as insisting anything else. Your hyperbolic argument just plain doesn't prove your point. The act of breastfeeding, which was, I believe, what we were all discussing, is not in itself offensive. Of course if she did a strip tease on a table while breastfeeding and danced a fandango, people might well find it rather offensive (and also pretty bewildering), but I think the specific act of breastfeeding in the middle of it wouldn't be what people were talking about.

The act itself is not indecent.

One can be offensive in doing anything, including breastfeeding, walking, reading, talking, eating and doing a handstand. This does not actually make breastfeeding, walking, reading, talking, eating or doing a handstand offensive acts in and of themselves.

Or have I missed something here?

NachoBusiness wrote: »

Oh give it a rest with the sanctimony. Almost everyone on the thread that believes this woman was looking for attention ALSO believes that it of course should be a woman's right to breastfeed in public and that there is nothing shameful in it. Maybe if you actually attempted to take user's points on board rather than be hell bent on painting them as some kind of prudes you'd realise that.

"She should be feeding the baby under a shawl!"

Yep, it's her right to breastfeed in public. It is considered rude to stare and make disapproving motions at someone for doing something legal and (debatably) appropriate. So what's the problem?

That the whole thing went viral is more a symptom of today's obsession with tiny incidents being talked about all over the world than anything else. Maybe she was "attention-seeking", maybe she wasn't, but when you get right down to it, she wasn't actually doing anything wrong.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

This, exactly this, is what I'm trying to get across to people. It's not the act of breastfeeding at all that bothers me. It's the attitude, the "stare-down", the "I'm now going to focus on staring you down because you're staring at me" kind of thing.

This woman could easily have done what most people around her were doing - ignore someone staring at her, like most people were ignoring her breastfeeding. She went out of her way to make a point that was literally so, so unnecessary IMO.

Aha, right, I follow you there. Yeeah, I see your point. But people is people and react differently to feeling themselves being disapproved of, especially when they feel they're not doing anything wrong. Back after the marriage referendum, I wore my multicoloured jacket outside in the city, partly because I like it, and partly in celebration of it going through. I was called a fag and a slut amongst other things, mostly by young men in cars, because shouting at lone people in the street from a moving vehicle is amongst the bravest things one can do in front of one's mates. Now, I could have removed the jacket, kept my head down and tried not to attract attention. I could do what I did, which is smile rather triumphantly at them and walk off with my head held high and my jacket remaining both on and multi-coloured. I could have attacked them with a brick.

I didn't need to wear that jacket. I didn't need to look like I was celebrating a hard-won victory which I'd helped battle for. I didn't need to acknowledge them with even a scornful look, much less a probably rather smug expression. But on the other hand, was it really so wrong? If there should be no shame in doing something legal that does not, after all, impact anyone else, why should one not do it because some people think it's indecent? Particularly when no-one can really make a decent point for why it SHOULD be taboo. Why should people meep into a corner because of bullies - and make no mistake, trying to shame someone for feeding their child (or wearing a multi-coloured jacket) IS bullying - even if they do it in a way that is suggestive of making a statement. There would, after all, be no need to make the damn statement in the first place if it wasn't for those same rather bullying attitudes.

NachoBusiness wrote: »

I am attempting to find out if Kev is willing to agree that yes, it is possible for a woman to be inconsiderate whilst in the act of breastfeeding.

I agree that it is definitely possible for a woman to be inconsiderate while breastfeeding.

I don't see any reason to believe that this woman set out to be inconsiderate though. In my opinion, a lack of discretion is not inconsiderate.

NachoBusiness wrote: »

If he does that, then it is just a matter of finding out where the line is for him and believe it or not he will then show himself to broadly be in agreement with most people on the thread which he is arguing with. .

I don't really think so. Apart from a few total morons saying 'what about masturbation/pissing in a bottle', the line regarding what is acceptable/inconsiderate is exactly what is causing the disagreement.

I think much of the argument that she's looking for attention comes from her posting the picture and comments - it's undeniable that she made those posts to get attention.

But there seems to be an extension of the argument that because she posted the photo and the comments she did, therefore it's clear or obvious that she actually set out to breastfeed in a way that would promote some kind of reaction from a customer.

I don't see any reason to think it is more likely that she set out to get a negative reaction from a customer than it is likely she simply responded to a negative reaction from a customer.