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Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,284 ✭✭✭StewartGriffin


    The Palestinians have to put with a lot more than the Israelis what with the mass murder at the hands of the IDF and all that. The Israeli state doesn't give a fuck about peace and long ago traded it for the continuing occupation and colonization of the West Bank and throttling of Gaza.

    Damn Straight! We support the oppressed Palestinians here in Irela... Wait, Palestinians aren't MUSLIM are they???:eek::confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,749 ✭✭✭Smiles35


    Funny thing about Japan is in between the world wars when faced with questions about 'things' they went with we got 9 or more cultures on our islands.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    Don't turn this into a Israeli Palestinians thread as that's what Isis would want. Stay focused....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    In pretty much the same way as Japan. It's worth reading all the way through.

    IMMIGRATION, MUSLIM VIOLENCE
    ISLAMIC TERRORISM: WHY THERE IS NONE IN JAPAN
    APRIL 13, 2015 Y.K. CHERSON

    Interesting that you didn't post a link the the authors web page:
    http://chersonandmolschky.com/about/

    This is the blog of authors Y.K. Cherson and Rachel Molschky.

    Muslim Immigration to the West: Sometimes cultures don’t mix, especially when one seeks to destroy the other. The multicultural experiment has failed.

    Please take a moment to check out our book, currently for sale on Amazon:

    Immigrants of Doom

    Who We Are

    Y.K. Cherson is an Israeli writer who has written countless articles for sites like Right Side News, Ali Sina’s Faith Freedom and many more. He has spent a lifetime serving the public. With an extensive military career which provided invaluable experience dealing firsthand with terrorists and future terrorists, his current “day job” keeps him on the front lines of the immigration and related crime issues facing us today.

    A graduate of Moscow State University and Tel Aviv University, Cherson has a Ph.D. in International Politics and Economics. Aside from his military and academic background, his unique perspective comes from a lifetime of living around the world: first in Eastern Europe, then the Middle East, and currently in the West.

    BTW, Japan limits immigration to everyone and not just Muslims as the article falsely claims. Rather interesting that the article deliberately misrepresented Japanese immigration policy like. Can't imagine why the author would do that......


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,085 ✭✭✭questionmark?


    realies wrote: »
    Don't turn this into a Israeli Palestinians thread as that's what Isis would want. Stay focused....

    OK so in the interest of fairness, Israel is bad, Palestine is bad, Israel is good, Palestine is good. Now back to I****


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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 889 ✭✭✭opiniated


    Christy42 wrote: »
    Good to know that Europe is an island with small borders to protect against people trying to get illegally with no predominantly Muslim country nearby.

    Really you need to convince me that terrorists can't get in illegally. They only need to be in a few days to carry out an attack and Europe struggles to find people working for years.

    Also another country with no attacks by Islamic terrorists is Ireland unless I am forgetting something. Maybe what we have is fine or maybe Daesh don'the care about either country very much. I am all for looking at options like Japan's policy but you need an actual argument to back it up rather than just sending up shrill calls of close the border.

    I have set up my argument that would only slow down Daesh from entering Europe and give them a lot more people to recruit from in a much easier fashion (as they won'the be surrounded by Western culture and may depend on them for food and shelter meaning they only hear what they have to say). What is your or anyone's counter to it?

    I would agree with this, though with the proviso that security must be tightened at the borders. I know some terrorists will still get in. However, letting them walk in unopposed doesn't sit well with me, either.

    The other issue, of course, is the homegrown terrorist.

    It seems to me that Daesh have been playing the long game for quite some time.

    I propose that it's time we started playing the same game.
    For starters, instead of allowing the Wahhabi sect to fund schools, why don't we fund them adequately, and have an input into the religious curriculum?
    I don't mean prevent the teaching of Islam, I mean the Moslem council should be adequately funded and supported to ensure that young Moslems are not radicalised in our Countries.

    It wont stop the current attacks, but it should certainly help prevent future ones.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,401 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    interesting how japan is never questioned about its immigration policy , never once heard anyone in the media criticise it

    You hear much about Japan in general?

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,107 ✭✭✭Christy42


    opiniated wrote: »
    I would agree with this, though with the proviso that security must be tightened at the borders. I know some terrorists will still get in. However, letting them walk in unopposed doesn't sit well with me, either.

    The other issue, of course, is the homegrown terrorist.

    It seems to me that Daesh have been playing the long game for quite some time.

    I propose that it's time we started playing the same game.
    For starters, instead of allowing the Wahhabi sect to fund schools, why don't we fund them adequately, and have an input into the religious curriculum?
    I don't mean prevent the teaching of Islam, I mean the Moslem council should be adequately funded and supported to ensure that young Moslems are not radicalised in our Countries.

    It wont stop the current attacks, but it should certainly help prevent future ones.

    This I can get behind.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭The Randy Riverbeast


    In pretty much the same way as Japan. It's worth reading all the way through.

    IMMIGRATION, MUSLIM VIOLENCE
    ISLAMIC TERRORISM: WHY THERE IS NONE IN JAPAN
    APRIL 13, 2015 Y.K. CHERSON


    With all this Muslim terrorism plaguing the world, perhaps it is time to take a look at a country not suffering the same fate and analyze exactly why that is…

    Map of Japan

    By: Y.K. Cherson

    In 2011, Sunni Muslims accounted for the greatest number of terrorist attacks and fatalities for the third year in a row. Over 5,700 incidents were committed by Sunni Muslims, responsible for nearly 56 percent of all attacks and about 70 percent of 12,533 fatalities.*

    Another 24 percent of the fatalities are on Shi´a Muslims. So in 2011, Muslims were responsible for 94 percent of the fatalities in terrorist attacks. Since 2011, with ISIS on the scene, the number of the fatalities –victims of the Muslim terrorist attacks- sharply grew, together with Muslims´ share in the world terrorism that is steadily closing in on 100%.

    In 2013, according to the US Department of State, a total of 9,707 terrorist attacks occurred worldwide, resulting in more than 17,800 deaths and more than 32,500 injuries. In addition, more than 2,990 people were kidnapped or taken hostage. Information about perpetrators was reported in source materials for 32 percent of terrorist attacks in 2013.

    And of these 32 percent, or 17,800 deaths, only three Muslim terrorist groups, namely the Taliban, ISIS and Boko Haram, were responsible for 5,655 fatalities, or for 31.76 percent! That means that 31.76 percent out of the 32 percent of terrorist attacks which had reported information about the attackers were perpetrated by only three Muslim terrorist groups, out of a good 50 more that exist in our turbulent world!

    Muslim terrorists can be proud: their share in world terrorist attacks is now close to 100%.

    Seems there is not a single country where Muslims would not show their true colors… But no! There is such a country. It’s one of the most developed countries on Earth, and its democratic nature is recognized worldwide, a true ally of the USA and a member of NATO. However, with all this, there was not a single terrorist attack perpetrated by Muslims in this country. Moreover, there was not a single, even minor, riot, disturbance or protest, no matter how many citizens of this country support cartoons of the prophet Muhammad published in some Danish newspaper or in a French magazine.

    The name of this lucky country is Japan.

    Of course, Japan achieved this by some super effective integration policy, through using the most advanced technologies and assigning billions of yen on the building of thousands of mosques and Islamic schools all over Japan, banning pork in all public places, introducing separate hours for boys and girls in swimming pools in all public schools, and Japanese male doctors do not dare touch their female patients, Muslim women get immense social aid each time they have a child, Shari´a courts were introduced in the judicial system of Japan, and the Koran is considered a Holy Book in Japan…

    No, nothing of the kind. What Japan did to avoid problems related to Muslims was much simpler and cheaper; Japan is practically closed to Muslims.

    Officially, immigration to Japan is not closed to Muslims. But the number of the immigration permits given to the applicants from Islamic countries is very low. Obtaining a working visa is not easy for adepts of Islam, even if they are physicians, engineers and managers sent by foreign companies that are active in the region. As a result, Japan is “a country without Muslims”.

    There is no reliable estimate on the Japanese Muslim population. However, claims of thirty thousand made by some researchers are without doubt an exaggeration. Some claim that there are only a few hundred. This probably amounts to the number of Muslims openly practicing Islam. Asked to give an estimate on the actual number of Muslims in Japan, the ex-president of the Japan Islamic Association Abu Bakr Morimoto replied, “To say frankly, only one thousand. In the broadest sense, I mean, if we do not exclude those who became Muslims for the sake of, say marriage, and do not practice then the number would be a few thousand.”

    One of the leaders of the Muslim community in Japan, Nur Ad-Din Mori, was asked: “What percentage of Japan’s total population are Muslims?” He responded, “The answer at the moment is: One out of a hundred thousand.”

    Japan’s population is 130 million people, so if these Muslim leaders are correct, then there must be around 1300 Muslims. But even those Muslims who obtained immigration permits and lived many years in the country have very poor chances of becoming Japanese citizens.

    Japan officially forbids exhorting people to adopt the religion of Islam (Dawah), and any Muslim who actively encourages conversion to Islam is seen as proselytizing to a foreign and undesirable culture. Too active “promoters of Islam” face deportation- and sometimes even a jail sentence.

    The Arabic language is taught by very few academic institutes; I could find only one such institute: The Arabic Islamic Institute in Tokyo. But even the International University of Japan in Tokyo does not offer courses on Arabic or Islamic languages.

    Importing the Koran in Arabic is practically impossible, and the only one permitted is the “adapted” version in Japanese.

    Until recently, there were only two mosques in Japan: Tokyo Jama Masjid and Kobe Mosque. Now, the total number of Muslim praying sites in Japan is counted in some 30 single story mosques and about a hundred apartment rooms set aside for prayers.

    And Japanese society expects Muslims to pray at home: no collective “prostrating” in the streets or squares; in Japan, for such “shows” the actors can get pretty high fines, and in those cases Japanese Police consider “serious”, the participants can be deported.

    Quite often, Japanese companies seeking foreign workers specifically note that they are not interested in Muslims.

    There is not even a trace of a Shari´a Law in Japan, and halal food is extremely difficult to find in there.

    The Japanese tend to perceive Islam as a “strange and dangerous religion” that a true Japanese should avoid, and the recent murders of two Japanese nationals, Haruna Yukawa and Kenji Goto, by ISIS have not contributed to any improvement in the opinions of the Japanese on this matter.

    And the most interesting thing in the Japanese approach to Muslims is the fact that the Japanese do not feel any guilt for such a “discriminatory” approach to Islam, and they evidently do not think they should apologize to Muslims for the negative way in which they perceive their religion. Arab gas and oil- yes, and Japan maintains good relations with Arab exporters. But Islam – no, and Muslim immigration- neither. Islam is something that is suitable for others, not for Japan, and therefore the Muslims must remain outside.

    And Muslims in Japan do not riot, they do not brand the Japanese “racists”, they do not burn cars, smash windows, behead Japanese soldiers for having been in Afghanistan, Iraq or anywhere else on Earth – and not a single Japanese has been victim of a Muslim terrorist attack on Japanese soil in the last 30 years.

    Maybe Europe and the USA should look at the Japanese model of dealing with Muslims more closely?

    This made 2 questions come to mind.
    When did Ireland have a terrorist attack involving Muslims?
    How can Japan be closed to Muslims and yet they dont know how many are in the country? If they are taking into account the religion of immigrants then they would have this information.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    opiniated wrote: »
    For starters, instead of allowing the Wahhabi sect to fund schools, why don't we fund them adequately, and have an input into the religious curriculum?

    Or how about we just ban Wahhabi sect teaching altogether? **** pussy-footing around with it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭TheLastMohican


    Most people are not saying what they really think ......... . Surely if we cannot say what we really think and are shackled by various mods and the PC brigade, the discussion is meaningless.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭Frank Grimes


    Most people are not saying what they really think ......... . Surely if we cannot say what we really think and are shackled by various mods and the PC brigade, the discussion is meaningless.
    Yeah, the terrorists have truly won.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 300 ✭✭Isaiah


    I've posted this elsewhere but thought it would be useful to point it out here too. For those who bring up the crusades as justification for the Islamists hatred of the west.

    634 AD - the Muslims invaded the Byzantine Empire (Orthodox Christians)
    634 AD - The Muslims invaded the lands of Palastine (Christian/Jewish)
    650 AD - The Muslims invaded Ukraine/Crimea (Khazar) (Christian/Jewish)
    652 A.D - The Muslims invade Chirstian Southern Italy and Sicily (Catholic)
    700 A.D - The Muslims invade Christian Nubia (They failed)
    711 A.D - The Muslims invade occupy Christian Spain, Portugal, Andora and Gibraltar. They also later invaded France but they got their asses kicked.
    846 A.D - The Muslims sacked Rome.
    1064 A.D - THe Muslims invade Asia Minor and Syria (Christian )
    1095 A.D - The first crusade. In response to the Byzantines request for help.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Isaiah wrote: »
    I've posted this elsewhere but thought it would be useful to point it out here too. For those who bring up the crusades as justification for the Islamists hatred of the west.

    If you want to go that far back, you do realize that Muslims were hardly the only Religious group running around invading. BTW, your list treats Muslims as a singular group, which is nonsense, it would be the equivalent of referring to French and British invasions solely as Christian invasions for example.

    BTW, your beloved Crusaders sacked Constantinople (and ate people, and wiped out Christians and Jews as well as Muslims), great help those guys were........


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    what we really think and are shackled by various mods and the PC brigade, the discussion is meaningless.

    There are plenty of website that allow hate speech if that's your thing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Isaiah wrote: »
    I've posted this elsewhere but thought it would be useful to point it out here too. For those who bring up the crusades as justification for the Islamists hatred of the west.

    634 AD - the Muslims invaded the Byzantine Empire (Orthodox Christians)
    634 AD - The Muslims invaded the lands of Palastine (Christian/Jewish)
    650 AD - The Muslims invaded Ukraine/Crimea (Khazar) (Christian/Jewish)
    652 A.D - The Muslims invade Chirstian Southern Italy and Sicily (Catholic)
    700 A.D - The Muslims invade Christian Nubia (They failed)
    711 A.D - The Muslims invade occupy Christian Spain, Portugal, Andora and Gibraltar. They also later invaded France but they got their asses kicked.
    846 A.D - The Muslims sacked Rome.
    1064 A.D - THe Muslims invade Asia Minor and Syria (Christian )
    1095 A.D - The first crusade. In response to the Byzantines request for help.
    Did you find that on facebook? Empires rise and fall throughout history I don't see why the caliphates are automatically more sinister than than the Mongol or Roman empires.

    Also it should be noted that the Umayyads were far more tolerate to other religions than the Christian East Roman Empire.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭Frank Grimes


    There are plenty of website that allow hate speech if that's your thing.
    I'm sure he just wants to be able to tell it like it is.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 300 ✭✭Isaiah


    wes wrote: »
    If you want to go that far back, you do realize that Muslims were hardly the only Religious group running around invading. BTW, your list treats Muslims as a singular group, which is nonsense, it would be the equivalent of referring to French and British invasions solely as Christian invasions for example.

    Actually Islam was nowhere near as developed as Christianity at the time to have split into distinct sub-religions. It was very much a new religion, riding on a wave of radicalisation and forced conversion. It literally swept out of the desert and spread like fire. The Europeans ignored it as long as they could, as the EU is now doing.

    Islam is and was a death cult, its only intention is to carve out as much territory as possible and force everyone to submit to Allah or pay the consequences. The Christians of this era knew it, and when they went to fight the crusades they were fighting for the survival of European and Christian culture.

    Isis is merely a return to form.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭Frank Grimes


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Empires rise and fall throughout history I don't see why the caliphates are automatically more sinister than than the Mongol or Roman empires.
    Because...MUSLIMS!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭The Randy Riverbeast


    Isaiah wrote: »
    I've posted this elsewhere but thought it would be useful to point it out here too. For those who bring up the crusades as justification for the Islamists hatred of the west.

    634 AD - the Muslims invaded the Byzantine Empire (Orthodox Christians)
    634 AD - The Muslims invaded the lands of Palastine (Christian/Jewish)
    650 AD - The Muslims invaded Ukraine/Crimea (Khazar) (Christian/Jewish)
    652 A.D - The Muslims invade Chirstian Southern Italy and Sicily (Catholic)
    700 A.D - The Muslims invade Christian Nubia (They failed)
    711 A.D - The Muslims invade occupy Christian Spain, Portugal, Andora and Gibraltar. They also later invaded France but they got their asses kicked.
    846 A.D - The Muslims sacked Rome.
    1064 A.D - THe Muslims invade Asia Minor and Syria (Christian )
    1095 A.D - The first crusade. In response to the Byzantines request for help.

    400 years back? You mention something that a non muslim did last week and you have people commenting that it doesn't matter because its old, a muslim did something this week.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,284 ✭✭✭StewartGriffin


    Most people are not saying what they really think ......... . Surely if we cannot say what we really think and are shackled by various mods and the PC brigade, the discussion is meaningless.

    Have a go. What are you afraid of? An After Hours Ban? Grow a pair.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 300 ✭✭Isaiah


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Did you find that on facebook? Empires rise and fall throughout history I don't see why the caliphates are automatically more sinister than than the Mongol or Roman empires.

    Also it should be noted that the Umayyads were far more tolerate to other religions than the Christian East Roman Empire.

    I do not use facebook or the like. I read these things called books and went to a big building called a university.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    I'm sure he just wants to be able to tell it like it is.

    What? All Christians are like these ones?

    You get the picture?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Isaiah wrote: »
    Actually Islam was nowhere near as developed as Christianity at the time to have split into distinct sub-religions. It was very much a new religion, riding on a wave of radicalisation and forced conversion.

    Sunni and Shia split happened very early on. So, there were most certainly distinct sects very early on. It seem very clear have no idea what your talking about.
    Isaiah wrote: »
    Islam is and was a death cult, it's only intention is to carve out as much territory as possible and force everyone to submit to Allah or pay the consequences. The Christians of this era knew it, and when they went to fight the crusades they were fighting for the survival of European and Christian culture.

    Isis is merely a return to form.

    Various people back then butchered plenty of people in there own expansionist wars. Rewriting history to some how make out that a non-existent monolithic Muslim entity was running around engaging in wars and invasion, when Muslims were like any other groups of the time. Split into various groups, that would just as often go to war with one another, as they would outside Religious groups.

    The same goes for your the crusaders, who as I stated earlier sacked Constantinople, and not to mention crusade against the Cathars, where the crusader wiped the Cathars off the face of the earth.

    So describing the Crusaders as a group engaged in self defense is utter nonsense. Crusaders attacked Jews, Christians (as long as they were the wrong type) and Muslim alike. They even committed genocide against the Cathars, who again were Christians. It amazing that you are choosing to white wash history like this.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 300 ✭✭Isaiah


    What? All Christians are like these ones?

    You get the picture?

    They are not Christians by definition. You cannot be Christian and racist, or engage in killing. It's A-OK with Mohammed though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭nxbyveromdwjpg


    400 years back? You mention something that a non muslim did last week and you have people commenting that it doesn't matter because its old, a muslim did something this week.

    You're dealing with a christian fanatic there bible basher there who's hated muslims for a long, long time by the sounds of him, and must be delighted now he gets to use these attacks as an opportunity to bring up everything they've been associated with since the dawn of time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Isaiah wrote: »
    I do not use facebook or the like. I read these things called books and went to a big building called a university.

    And yet you still have no ability to separate the actions of a few ultra-extremist nutters with the rest of the billion Muslims or even the 13 million in the EU. Your education failed you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭alwald


    Here is a video (in French) from '66 minutes' explaining everything that happened during the shootings in Paris, it's very emotional as it contains some exclusive footage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APZ0tL1Lq4Q


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Isaiah wrote: »
    I do not use facebook or the like. I read these things called books and went to a big building called a university.
    I doubt they though you that rubbish in uni. I went to uni too, it wasn't one building though, it was spread out over a campus.


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