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Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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Comments

  • #4172
    Muir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 948 ✭✭✭Muir


    Penny Tration wrote: »
    The Mirror (i know, not a great source) are reporting that France have retaliated by dropping 20 bombs on a Jihadi training camp.

    Not just The Mirror, seems to be getting widely reported in the last few minutes.


  • #4173
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Get away out a that. It is a normal reaction to murdering scumbags in the name of a religion of peace. What an oxymoron that is after what happened.

    Blaming all men for rapists is not normal. Blaming all Irish people for paedophile priests is not normal. Neither is blaming all muslims for the activities of a tiny minority.


  • #4174
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,143 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Custardpi wrote: »
    While I think an attack like Paris is extremely unlikely in Ireland I shudder to think how an event (intentional or otherwise) with a similar casualty level would be handled here. I'd be very pessimistic about the health service being able to cope for instance, particularly if it occurred during the busier winter months.

    I read that even in the big hospitals in Paris they discharged patients immediately in order to deal with the influx of the injured from the shootings.

    The trolleys will be commandeered here too.


  • #4175
    Samaris
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    fin12 wrote: »
    Well why so as a European walking down a street in a European country, you feel like the outsider.

    I dunno, why do you feel like an outsider? As a European living in a European city, I don't. Even seeing Asian, Arab or black people doesn't particularly make me feel like an outsider.

    The screeching Spanish students next door do make me feel annoyed at times, mind you.


  • #4176
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Channel hopping through the various news channels and not seen any mention of this.

    Sky news


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  • #4177
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    IrishTrajan wrote: »
    You are aware most of Western and Northern Europe (ourselves and France excluded) have sub-replacement fertility levels and are expected to becoming Islamic within 50 years?

    Debunked time and time again. Classic right wing nonsense with only the name changed.


  • #4178
    IrishTrajan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,703 ✭✭✭IrishTrajan


    Carnacalla wrote: »
    Explain the forming of ghettoes in europe?

    Well, it's quite simple, it's human nature. Look at Malmo or Gothenburg. People stick with people who have similar cultures to them. We have seen the same with Algerians in Paris, and Turks and Kurds in Berlin.

    Immigrants, especially poor, uneducated ones, tend to form ghettoes and not progress in life through careers or education. For instance, among Sweden's non-EU migrants, I believe there is a 50% unemployment rate (though I may be wrong). This leads to a lot of young, angry, disenfranchised men who believe Islam has the answer to their problems. Similarly, we see those young men turn to sectarianism (reports of ethnic groups attacking each other with grenades in the streets, and of them attacking ethnic Swedes should a Swede be so unfortunate as to wander into "their area").


  • #4179
    conorhal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,080 ✭✭✭conorhal


    Nodin wrote: »
    Blaming all men for rapists is not normal. Blaming all Irish people for paedophile priests is not normal. Neither is blaming all muslims for the activities of a tiny minority.

    Neither is doing nothing to address a problem. That's not normal either. Any solutions to offer?


  • #4180
    sjb25
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭sjb25


    Muir wrote: »
    Not just The Mirror, seems to be getting widely reported in the last few minutes.

    Yep the French are getting some revenge out of the system another few bombing runs won't go a miss


  • #4181
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,143 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Nodin wrote: »
    Blaming all men for rapists is not normal. Blaming all Irish people for paedophile priests is not normal. Neither is blaming all muslims for the activities of a tiny minority.

    Where are the vast majority telling me that they do not support all this terrorism in their name so?

    Are they out there on the streets in their droves, candles and mobile phone lights waving en masse to show us this?

    Ha. Get away with ya. They are afraid to do so, no other reason. None.

    They can talk all they like, but until they walk the walk together against the tiny minority of their fellow religionists, I don't believe them.

    But then again they may be terrified of doing something like this.

    And I know you will come back and say why should they? Well the time has come to stand up and be counted against all this. There are too many of them out there now not to be able to make some kind of gesture of solidarity with everyone else here.

    And I don't care about any other group or whatever, I am talking about Islam and Muslims. Let them be heard as a majority of peace loving people. I want to hear it. Now.


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  • #4182
    Wurzelbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,804 ✭✭✭Wurzelbert


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    If you thought I was justifying child marriage in any shape or form then you are more than confused - you are downright wrong.

    okay, i really hope i am wrong…yet still wondering why anyone would bring up hindus, pervs and weird sects for some sort of comparison if not to justify muslim child marriage traditions to some extent…looked like the old “but they do it too” argument to me…


  • #4183
    fin12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,934 ✭✭✭✭fin12


    Samaris wrote: »
    I dunno, why do you feel like an outsider? As a European living in a European city, I don't. Even seeing Asian, Arab or black people doesn't particularly make me feel like an outsider.

    The screeching Spanish students next door do make me feel annoyed at times, mind you.

    I felt like I wasn't in a European country like I was in Saudi Arabia. I was the only white person on the street.


  • #4184
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    IrishTrajan wrote: »
    Well, it's quite simple, it's human nature. Look at Malmo or Gothenburg. People stick with people who have similar cultures to them. We have seen the same with Algerians in Paris, and Turks and Kurds in Berlin.

    Immigrants, especially poor, uneducated ones, tend to form ghettoes and not progress in life through careers or education.

    Is it thus though ? Or is it just a religious thing (Jews historically, Muslims since they started migrating this century). People moving around within Europe dont ghettoise. People emigrating from Europe to the States or Aus dont ghettoise. Is it not the religious culture that impedes genuine integration.

    Genuine question rather than giving an answer.


  • #4185
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,360 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Is it thus though ? Or is it just a religious thing (Jews historically, Muslims since they started migrating this century). People moving around within Europe dont ghettoise. People emigrating from Europe to the States or Aus dont ghettoise. Is it not the religious culture that impedes genuine integration.

    Genuine question rather than giving an answer.

    Europe is offering to help them fight wars when we should be supporting secular authorities and not these gangs.


  • #4186
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Wurzelbert wrote: »
    okay, i really hope i am wrong…yet still wondering why anyone would bring up hindus, pervs and weird sects for some sort of comparison if not to justify muslim child marriage traditions to some extent…looked like the old “but they do it too” argument to me…

    Ok.

    It went something like this:

    One particular poster was getting very worked up about the age of Muhammad's wife - mentioned it in several posts.

    I pointed out that old goats (and yes, that is what I called him) frequently married young girls and, by way of example, it was the norm for the Byzantine emperors.
    What can I say - I'm a historian - looking at things in their historical context is part of my training and professionally I would be hammered if I didn't so you could say I went to my default setting.

    The come back was that some Muslims still do it - I pointed out that so do some Christians and in fact the highest proportion of child bride marriages is among Hindus in India.

    This is not a justification of some Muslims marrying young girls it it pointing out that they do not have a monopoly on being dirty old men.


  • #4187
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    As somebody who for all of his adult life has occupied space somewhere far to the right of Genghis Khan and Margaret Thatcher, it pains me to state the old proverb "They that sow the wind, shall reap the whirlwind" and in the case of France this is particularly true. Tragically, it is not those behind their billion dollar military/industrial complex that suffer but the ordinary citizens be it in the Middle East or on the streets of Paris.

    http://www.france24.com/en/20150503-arms-sales-becoming-france-new-el-dorado-but-what-cost-francois-hollande-saudi-arabia-rafale

    I detest terrorism in all its forms, but the same old knee-jerk reactions of bomb them back into the Stone Age isn't going to work. Mick Wallace, the thinking man/woman's politician, is one of the few to have spoken any sense on the matter and he has been berated by the bandwaggoners most of whom would find it difficult to find the Middle East on the map.

    For most of the last 50 years of my life the violence, and threat of World engulfing violence coming out of the Middle East has been a constant backdrop; it's not a legacy that I want my two young children to inherit, but there seems to be no serious effort to bring resolution to the problem. Sooner or later if things are not sorted out there will be an incident that will make Paris pale into insignificance and are too awful to contemplate.

    ****



  • #4188
    bb12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 889 ✭✭✭bb12


    because we as Irish have experience with terrorism carried out "in our names and religion", i'm just curious if anyone remembers what did the southern irish population do after the enniskillen bombings, omagh bombings etc? does anyone remember if there were any protest marches organised by the general population at the time?

    just curious because if there were then surely this is what we should expect of the general muslim population across france now?


  • #4189
    GT_TDI_150
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,917 ✭✭✭✭GT_TDI_150


    French bombing the snot out of ISIS stronghold ....


    Cant say i disagree with their approach


  • #4190
    wp_rathead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭wp_rathead


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Where are the vast majority telling me that they do not support all this terrorism in their name so?

    Are they out there on the streets in their droves, candles and mobile phone lights waving en masse to show us this?

    Ha. Get away with ya. They are afraid to do so, no other reason. None.

    They can talk all they like, but until they walk the walk together against the tiny minority of their fellow religionists, I don't believe them.

    But then again they may be terrified of doing something like this.

    And I know you will come back and say why should they? Well the time has come to stand up and be counted against all this. There are too many of them out there now not to be able to make some kind of gesture of solidarity with everyone else here.

    And I don't care about any other group or whatever, I am talking about Islam and Muslims. Let them be heard as a majority of peace loving people. I want to hear it. Now.

    A) they don't have too
    B) alot do though


  • #4191
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Is it thus though ? Or is it just a religious thing (Jews historically, Muslims since they started migrating this century). People moving around within Europe dont ghettoise. People emigrating from Europe to the States or Aus dont ghettoise. Is it not the religious culture that impedes genuine integration.

    Genuine question rather than giving an answer.

    Yes they do.

    Irish Ghettos in the UK like Kilburn or South Boston in the U.S, countless 'Little Italys' around the world (Leichardt in Sydney being one- now called Dykehardt due to the large lesbian population) , various Chinatowns, East end of London has over the years seen French ghettos (the original 'cockneys'), Jews, Irish, West Indian...


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  • #4192
    Paramite Pie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Paramite Pie


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Where are the vast majority telling me that they do not support all this terrorism in their name so?

    And I don't care about any other group or whatever, I am talking about Islam and Muslims. Let them be heard as a majority of peace loving people. I want to hear it. Now.

    Some photos from Iran -- people laying flowers outside the French embassy. Hard to see how big a crowd it is but it doesn't look that large.

    http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/11/14/437645/France-Paris-Iran-French-Embassy-Daesh-ISIS

    http://en.trend.az/iran/society/2456535.html

    I don't speak arabic so it's hard to gauge everyone's reactions but those articles show similar discussions to ours happening on iranian social media.


  • #4193
    Stinicker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,099 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    GT_TDI_150 wrote: »
    French bombing the snot out of ISIS stronghold ....


    Cant say i disagree with their approach

    I do, France is equipped with Nuclear weapons, they should launch a tactical Nuclear strike on Raqqah and wipe Islamic State off the map, one Nuclear missile would turn the whole city to glass and disembowel Islamic State in one clean sweep, leaving it leaderless and unable to function, it would also lay down a powerful warning to other Islamic terrorists and Terrorist friendly countries like Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Indonesia what they too could expect if they decide to go to war with the West.


  • #4194
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    I detest terrorism in all its forms, but the same old knee-jerk reactions of bomb them back into the Stone Age isn't going to work.


    .....

    Sooner or later if things are not sorted out there will be an incident that will make Paris pale into insignificance and are too awful to contemplate.

    So whats your idea so that an incident that makes Paris pale in signifance doesn't happen?

    I've yet to hear anyone promoting a non violent solution to the problem explain how you resolve the issue of ISIL given the fact they have zero will to talk and just want to bring death. Never mind the fact that they lack the organisational coherence.


  • #4195
    IrishTrajan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,703 ✭✭✭IrishTrajan


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    I detest terrorism in all its forms, but the same old knee-jerk reactions of bomb them back into the Stone Age isn't going to work. Mick Wallace, the thinking man/woman's politician, is one of the few to have spoken any sense on the matter and he has been berated by the bandwaggoners most of whom would find it difficult to find the Middle East on the map.


    Ah, yeah, Mick Wallace, the man evading taxes and who doesn't understand basic geopolitics. The man who thinks everything can be demilitarized and that ISIS are only nutjobs because the West sold weapons to the people giving them money... Seriously, what is he even thinking? If anything, ISIS would target Russia and Iran, not the people giving weapons to their financiers. Unless of course Wallace is talking out his ass and trying to secure his "against the grain" position.


  • #4196
    KERSPLAT!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    GT_TDI_150 wrote: »
    French bombing the snot out of ISIS stronghold ....


    Cant say i disagree with their approach

    I see the story up on Sky News, attached is a video from the stronghold taken in 2014 with 2 kids that can't be older than 4 or 5 as the thumbnail... Won't be watching that :(


  • #4197
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    bb12 wrote: »
    because we as Irish have experience with terrorism carried out "in our names and religion", i'm just curious if anyone remembers what did the southern irish population do after the enniskillen bombings, omagh bombings etc? does anyone remember if there were any protest marches organised by the general population at the time?

    just curious because if there were then surely this is what we should expect of the general muslim population across france now?

    I remember clearly that there was a very disturbing euphoria among the London Irish at least when Brighton was bombed.

    I also recall a distinct lack of upset when Airey Neave was murdered and jokes about 'Boom Boom' Mountbatten :(


  • #4198
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,360 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    This is a battle within Islam. Europe had to separate church and state before our modern world was created the Muslims are still resolute on keeping the Mosque state relationship well and truly intact.


  • #4199
    Isaiah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 300 ✭✭Isaiah


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Yes they do.

    Irish Ghettos in the UK like Kilburn or South Boston in the U.S, countless 'Little Italys' around the world (Leichardt in Sydney being one- now called Dykehardt due to the large lesbian population) , various Chinatowns, End end of London has over the years seen French ghettos (the original 'cockneys'), Jews, Irish, West Indian...

    There are no Irish Getthos. You cannot have an Irish Ghetto in england just as much as you cannot have an English Gettho in Dublin. They are European towns in European Cities.


  • #4200
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,143 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Paramite Pie wrote: »
    Some photos from Iran -- people laying flowers outside the French embassy. Hard to see how big a crowd it is but it doesn't look that large.

    http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/11/14/437645/France-Paris-Iran-French-Embassy-Daesh-ISIS

    http://en.trend.az/iran/society/2456535.html

    I don't speak arabic so it's hard to gauge everyone's reactions but those articles show similar discussions to ours happening on iranian social media.

    Thanks for that. It shows SOME solidarity.

    I suppose it will take time for the hundreds of thousands of Islamists/Muslims in the Greater Paris region and all over France to show solidarity as a religious group on their own. But hopefully it will happen soon.

    I reckon they are afraid to do so frankly.


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  • #4201
    fin12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,934 ✭✭✭✭fin12


    Paramite Pie wrote: »
    Some photos from Iran -- people laying flowers outside the French embassy. Hard to see how big a crowd it is but it doesn't look that large.

    http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/11/14/437645/France-Paris-Iran-French-Embassy-Daesh-ISIS

    http://en.trend.az/iran/society/2456535.html

    I don't speak arabic so it's hard to gauge everyone's reactions but those articles show similar discussions to ours happening on iranian social media.

    Iranians speak persian, I think ISIS hate Iran as well .


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