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Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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Comments

  • #1892
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    People may need to ask themselves; 'are we being manipulated'.

    Think about it, if the threat was massive, if the threat had any relation to the amount of Muslims living happily in Europe, then we would have massive massive death tolls everyday. That is based on what happened tonight with 5 men and small amounts of weaponry.
    These attacks, while awful are sporadic and carried out by small amounts of people willing to die. After killing 3000 people in America what is the success rate since?
    If there were 'hordes' of these militant people in Europe or flooding into Europe as some would sensationally have you believe, we would be seeing thousands of deaths.
    In other words, we need to calm down a bit.
    A trojan horse only needs to get a small number in to cause havoc, militants coming in with the migrants may lay low for several years while waiting for their numbers to increase until they reach a critical number that allows them to carry out a major attack on the host nation. It appears that the Paris attack was involved at most a dozen people, just imagine what a couple of hundred could achieve.


  • #1893
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Probably too soon to plan and in the wrong country for a revenge attack for Jihad John.

    Could quite easily have been a generic plan. There are always going to be people in restaurants on a friday night, always going to be gigs and games.
    Quite possible they were primed and ready to go in response to American actions.


  • #1894
    Paramite Pie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Paramite Pie


    Peist2007 wrote: »
    My point exactly. Muslim extremist groups have not been attacking European countries in contemporary times until 2003 when we attacked them. Now we have a problem

    But France was one of the most vocal in opposition, remember? That whole Freedom Fries debacle when they refused military support to the US.

    Nice of you to group all European countries together as if we're all the same. The French showed no support and it was very public.


  • #1895
    Jelle1880
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,894 ✭✭✭Jelle1880


    Peist2007 wrote: »
    He pretty much did highlight the complete contradiction in what you are saying. You decry those set in a mentality and then parrot your own. You've got this one wrong.

    There is only a contradiction if you're so dead set in believing the West is responsible for the actions of everyone else.

    Which it isn't.

    As I said: Self-pity, more interested in blaming the West than those actually responsible.

    Can you explain why they attacked France, a country that was dead set against invading Iraq for example ?


  • #1896
    castletownman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,568 ✭✭✭✭castletownman


    In fairness, anyone who has an excuse for this is living in denial. It's about time J Robert Oppenheimer's pet project was introduced


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  • #1897
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Deleted User wrote: »
    200 years ago they were not in Europe but in the Middle East amongst their own kind, now they are here in Europe but are not assimilated into Western culture so still have the same attitudes as they had then. Only now they believe that they can "get one over" their host nations!

    Are you sure there weren't any Muslims in Europe 200 years ago?
    Really really sure?

    Not even in Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, Albania, Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Bosnia and Hungary when they were part of the Ottoman Empire?


  • #1898
    Peist2007
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Peist2007


    Fleawuss wrote: »
    That would be because they were kicked out of Spain by Ferdinand and Isabella and routed at the siege of Vienna in 1683. Some of the Christian countries in the Balkans and the Armenians might object to your "contemporary times". They haven't been able to. Which is considerably different from not wishing to. IS are not the creation of America: they are Islamic puritans with roots that extend back centuries. Not your point at all.

    You're grasping at straws. The US explicit invasion of the Middle East in 2003 and the resultant carnage in London, Madrid, Paris and Paris is coincidental because of things that happened in the 1600s. Face the facts, Muslims were not attacking us on our streets and in our entertainment venues prior to "shock and awe". We have created the conditions for this with our own greed. And saying that is not supporting terrorists, ffs


  • #1899
    firemansam4
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,750 ✭✭✭firemansam4


    Peist2007 wrote: »
    It's not 100% down to western policies, i agree Islam plays a role. But Islam is a pawn here too. It is being used as a vehicle. Look at the Wahabbi religion which the Saudis love throwing money at and which is an extremist brand of Islam. You think the Saudis in their palaces give a hoot about religion? Religion is a useful tool to give a credibility to the mindless barbarism we saw tonight. But there needs to be real anger and, unless you think your average Muslim is rabid, this anger needed to come from somewhere. Having your resources taken by brute force by Western enemies for more than a decade seems handy enough to me.

    I can understand there being anger and hatred for western countries due to the interference and the war in Iraq, I agree with you on that.
    But I think the radical extremism we are seeing of late is more to do with radical extremist religious beliefs of ISIS.
    I think due to the whole region becoming unsettled it has now given ISIS the platform to do what it is doing now.


  • #1900
    The Talking Bread
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,037 ✭✭✭✭The Talking Bread


    timthumbni wrote: »
    Anyone recommend any UK freeview news channels to watch the latest.??? The Brixton broadcasting corporation (BBC) is not really tickling my ivories despite their extortionate fees. They are coming across like some polytechnic student media affair.

    Watch it on France 24. Airs on TG4


  • #1901
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,506 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Paramite Pie wrote: »
    But France was one of the most vocal in opposition, remember? That whole Freedom Fries debacle when they refused military support to the US.

    Nice of you to group all European countries together as if we're all the same. The French showed no support and it was very public.

    In fairness the French opposed the invasion of Iraq. They supported and continue to support US involvement in the middle east.

    There are for example involved in air attacks in Syria , whereas the UK is not for example


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  • #1902
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,247 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Quite possible they were primed and ready to go in response to American actions.

    Or French.....

    There is only one aircraft carrier on its way to the Persian Gulf to fight ISIS & that's the Charles De Gaulle....

    It's scheduled to depart Toulon on Wednesday.


  • #1903
    raze_them_all_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    this pray for paris is stupid, religion has done enough today dont we think


  • #1904
    Peist2007
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Peist2007


    Jelle1880 wrote: »
    There is only a contradiction if you're so dead set in believe the West is responsible for the actions of everyone else.

    Which it isn't.

    As I said: Self-pity, more interested in blaming the West than those actually responsible.

    You cant see that analysing why this happened is not the same as blaming those responsible? Of course ISIS are responsible. How did a group like ISIS end up doing this? You're being obtuse on purpose. Go to bed.


  • #1905
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Are you sure there weren't any Muslims in Europe 200 years ago?
    Really really sure?

    Not even in Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, Albania, Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Bosnia and Hungary when they were part of the Ottoman Empire?
    Those countries are on the fringes of Europe, if you want to be pedantic, I am referring to countries like France UK Germany and the remainder of Europe.


  • #1906
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Deleted User wrote: »
    A trojan horse only needs to get a small number in to cause havoc, militants coming in with the migrants may lay low for several years while waiting for their numbers to increase until they reach a critical number that allows them to carry out a major attack on the host nation. It appears that the Paris attack was involved at most a dozen people, just imagine what a couple of hundred could achieve.

    There really isn't any evidence that this is a threat that can be sustained. After 9-11 what actual threat have they offered to America for instance?

    You will never defeat this type of attack, if you want to deal with it, you need to look at WHY it has become a threat in the last 20 years. And it is staring me in the face why.


  • #1907
    Jelle1880
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,894 ✭✭✭Jelle1880


    Peist2007 wrote: »
    You cant see that analysing why this happened is not the same as blaming those responsible? Of course ISIS are responsible. How did a group like ISIS end up doing this? You're being obtuse on purpose. Go to bed.

    Because they are extremist Islamists who kill people regardless of religion or where they are from.

    Wow, that was surprisingly easy.

    Why did they attack a country that had nothing to do with the bombardments of Iraq ?


  • #1908
    Bongalongherb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Bongalongherb


    A large majority of the Muslim community and also the Irish Muslim community in my opinion are nice folk, they just want stability to go through their lives without pain and suffering themselves and some peace, sure most of us know this and want this ourselves. The few/minority fcuk it all up for the many decent Muslim folk as usual.

    What we see tonight regarding the chaos and terrible loss of life and for the families of those that have died is hard pain of losing a son or daughter or loved one, the whole family and extended feel the pain, but it's only a minority of fcuking **** that can cause absolure chaos and death. As always the case here in Ireland... There's always one. One asshole that just wreaks everything.


  • #1909
    kingtiger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭kingtiger


    Peist2007 wrote: »
    You're grasping at straws. The US explicit invasion of the Middle East in 2003 and the resultant carnage in London, Madrid, Paris and Paris is coincidental because of things that happened in the 1600s. Face the facts, Muslims were not attacking us on our streets and in our entertainment venues prior to "shock and awe". We have created the conditions for this with our own greed. And saying that is not supporting terrorists, ffs

    jasus

    you can't condone indiscriminate actions like this pack of Cowards that were responsible for the carnage tonight

    welcome to my ignore list after that tirade of bull


  • #1910
    Sapphire3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 131 ✭✭Sapphire3


    FanadMan wrote: »
    To hell with all the political discussion, my thoughts are with the families tonight.

    I feel exactly the same way, my thoughts go out to the victims and their families tonight :(


  • #1911
    meepins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 447 ✭✭meepins


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    You will never defeat this type of attack, if you want to deal with it, you need to look at WHY it has become a threat in the last 20 years. And it is staring me in the face why.

    This should be good, go on..


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  • #1912
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    Or French.....

    There is only one aircraft carrier on its way to the Persian Gulf to fight ISIS & that's the Charles De Gaulle....

    It's scheduled to depart Toulon on Wednesday.

    Yep, fair enough. I don't think this took a lot of planning to be honest.


  • #1913
    timthumbni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    Baldy Conscience wrote: »
    I'm pretty friendly with an Egyptian Christian, through work, and he's in a pretty high position in his company.

    So maybe some radical Muslims are attacking Christians (shock horror), the more normal Muslims, of which I'd be on friendly terms with about ten or so, are grand lads, not a bother on them as regards to the Christian guy in their midst.

    So no problems being a Christian in Egypt then?? Aye ok.... I'm sure the poor Egyptian Christians on that Libyan (I tHink) beach were just marked out just for the craic then???


  • #1914
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    The Egyptian connection through Moslem Brotherhood is btw a rejection of Nasser's secularism and aping of Western culture. IS talks of Moslem lands alright and the invader: they don't just mean the Yanks. Trust these people in one thing: they mean what they say. They want large parts of Europe back.


  • #1915
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,506 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Peist2007 wrote: »
    You're grasping at straws. The US explicit invasion of the Middle East in 2003 and the resultant carnage in London, Madrid, Paris and Paris is coincidental because of things that happened in the 1600s. Face the facts, Muslims were not attacking us on our streets and in our entertainment venues prior to "shock and awe". We have created the conditions for this with our own greed. And saying that is not supporting terrorists, ffs

    Em , Muslims were attacking the U.S. In 9/11 ( 2001)

    The instability in the general Middle East goes back centuries


  • #1916
    Peist2007
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Peist2007


    firemansam4 wrote: »
    But I think the radical extremism we are seeing of late is more to do with radical extremist religious beliefs of ISIS.

    I disagree but i do see your point. My opinion is that the top of ISIS doesnt care about religion. This is about power, revenge, land, money, oil. Suicide bombers need a cause and islam is clearly working.


  • #1917
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,506 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Fleawuss wrote: »
    The Egyptian connection through Moslem Brotherhood is btw a rejection of Nasser's secularism and aping of Western culture. IS talks of Moslem lands alright and the invader: they don't just mean the Yanks. Trust these people in one thing: they mean what they say. They want large parts of Europe back.

    Not before we turn most of their land into glass


  • #1918
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    There really isn't any evidence that this is a threat that can be sustained. After 9-11 what actual threat have they offered to America for instance?

    You will never defeat this type of attack, if you want to deal with it, you need to look at WHY it has become a threat in the last 20 years. And it is staring me in the face why.
    Yes, inward migration without assimilation is the issue, there used to be a saying "when in Rome...." , that doesn’t apply any more.


  • #1919
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    castletownman wrote: »
    In fairness, anyone who has an excuse for this is living in denial. It's about time J Robert Oppenheimer's pet project was introduced

    No. Just no. What are you going to nuke: the Moslem suburbs of Paris?


  • #1920
    TheLastMohican
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭TheLastMohican


    BoatMad wrote: »
    In fairness the French opposed the invasion of Iraq. They supported and continue to support US involvement in the middle east.

    There are for example involved in air attacks in Syria , whereas the UK is not for example

    They also gave asylum to Ayatollah Khomeini for over a decade during the Shah's reign. Think of the deaths that this piece of humanity caused!


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  • #1921
    meepins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 447 ✭✭meepins


    BoatMad wrote: »
    Em , Muslims were attacking the U.S. In 9/11 ( 2001)

    The instability in the general Middle East goes back centuries

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_World_Trade_Center_bombing


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