Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

hatrickpatrick

Jelle1880 wrote: »

It's only incompatible if you're dead set on blaming everyone but Islamists for what happened. Which seems to be the case here.

I'm blaming the Islamists for what they did, and the West for creating them.

BoatMad

Fleawuss wrote: »

No. Just no. What are you going to nuke: the Moslem suburbs of Paris?

The Middle East , covered in glass , has a nice look to it !

BoatMad

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm blaming the Islamists for what they did, and the West for creating them.

I see , the west created Islam , righty oh

Happyman42

meepins wrote: »

This should be good, go on..

I'll let you look coldly at history in the morning and hope you can work it out yourself.

meepins

Peist2007 wrote: »

My opinion is that the top of ISIS doesnt care about religion.

Why don't they?

Filmer Paradise

moc moc a moc wrote: »

How eloquent. And as if it's a surprise someone would feel closer to someone of their own nationality.

Is your brother not more important to you than your neighbour? If so, then "wow" yourself.

El Weirdo wrote: »

Wow.


Just fucking wow.

Y'see, this is what the modern & 'educated' liberal has to bring to the table when the crunch comes.

'Wow just wow'.

Well this is just the thing to deter the murderers. That'll scare 'em alright.

Kill them with your 'irony' & sarcasm & whatever stupidity you learned as some sort of deskmonkey/ panting lackey with Google Ireland/Intel et all

Wars weren't won by your sort. It was won by having backbone & having the ability to get stuck in.

Not by making pithy comments.

Jelle1880

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm blaming the Islamists for what they did, and the West for creating them.

Fair enough then, I'm simply fed up of people trying to actually justify radical Islam by putting the blame solely on the West. Not you obviously, apologies

meepins

Happyman42 wrote: »

I'll let you look coldly at history in the morning and hope you can work it out yourself.

Okay and then what should we do now about it?

BoatMad

TheLastMohican wrote: »

They also gave asylum to Ayatollah Khomeini for over a decade during the Shah's reign. Think of the deaths that this piece of humanity caused!

Oh, sure , we have made stacks of mistakes in the west.

It's time for " no more mister nice guy "

Fleawuss

BoatMad wrote: »

The Middle East , covered in glass , has a nice look to it !

Tonight it sounds good to you. Next week no oil. Next week Pakistan hits back. There will be no nukes.
It needs a different approach.

Isaiah

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Are you sure there weren't any Muslims in Europe 200 years ago?
Really really sure?

Not even in Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, Albania, Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Bosnia and Hungary when they were part of the Ottoman Empire?

Half of Spain/portugal under Islamic control 1000 years ago. The crusades were in repsonse to Muslim attacks against the orthodox and pilgrims. The Muslims attacked first.

Islamist hatred and attacks on Europeans go back at least a millennia.

Peist2007

BoatMad wrote: »

Em , Muslims were attacking the U.S. In 9/11 ( 2001)

The instability in the general Middle East goes back centuries

Name the terrorist atrocities committed by Muslim extremist groups in the US and Europe since the end of World War 2 to today. Your findings will spike post Afgahn invasion in 2003. That is my point. It aint a difficult one to grasp so i dont know why it is being continuously misunderstood and misrepresented.

Facekicking 2 The Future

BoatMad wrote: »

Fundamentally this is a manifestation of the Sunni Shia divide. After the U.S. Withdrawal and the lack of stable government in Iraq , iran excerted it's power in becoming the " protectors" of the Shias in Iraq , that left the Sunnis seeking a protector , and that provided the basis for Isis to get traction.

The same thing has occurred in Syria , because the west prevaricated in Syria , the Rebels are now driven into the arms of the ISIL.

A new Ottoman Empire is needed to stabilise the middle east. One stamped " made in the west " on its warheads, arguing about who started it is irelevant , we must end it.

To add:

After the Ottoman Empire fell apart in the 1800's, new artificial borders were drawn for many of the Middle East nations and were divided up among where the oilfields were, tribes of people that ordinarily would have never had contact or had anything to do with each other were suddenly thrown together.

Bad things could only happen, but things can get better.
In the past lead to amazingly western like democracies because they did it from the ground and dealt with building of cities and infastructure with help from the USA bidding for clients to build roads and the like.

Look at pictures of Afghanistan from the 60's and you'llan upcoming western-like paradise on the road to somewhere and zero burqa enforcement.

Fleawuss

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm blaming the Islamists for what they did, and the West for creating them.

That simply is not true. IS has much deeper roots.

Samaris

meepins wrote: »

Okay and then what should we do now about it?

Tonight? Mourn and remember that people very like us, our friends and family were murdered in a brutal and senseless way by lunatics who are also humans like ourselves.

Tomorrow - stop scoring points off each other, and treat each other with just a bit more kindness, respect and dignity, whatever their race or nationality or religion. Hate breeds hate.




Or we can continue sniping at each other, iunno.

Happyman42

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, inward migration without assimilation is the issue, there used to be a saying "when in Rome...." , that doesn’t apply any more.

You are not going to solve the problem with violence. These attacks (5 men, limited weaponry) can be continued for decades.
Sooner or later, you will have to sort the root cause...or just capitulate. Our choice as Europeans.

Peist2007

BoatMad wrote: »

I see , the west created Islam , righty oh

NO!

He said the West created the Islamists who carried out tonight and similar attacks in Madrid and London. Are you being stupid on purpose?

KomradeBishop

BoatMad wrote: »

Europe is the worlds greatest economic area , with massive technical and manufacturing ability , All, we need is resolve

In the meantime , the yanks will do fine thanks.

Yes that's all we need, another war, except this time engaged in by Europe as a whole - turning much of the ME into a vassal.
That's sure as hell not going to lead to more people trying to commit murder and do bombings in Europe...

If the UK had invaded Ireland due to the IRA bombings in the UK - much in the way you describe regarding the EU and ME - do you think that would have sorted out the terrorist problem, or just lead to a shítstorm of bombings due to massively increased IRA recruitment?


People don't seem to get that many EU countries have been at war with the countries these terrorists are from - what the fúck do people think happens, when you go to war with someone? That they just don't fight back? That they fight back in a 'gentlemanly' way and follow the rules of war (rather than resorting to attacks like today)?

They're reprehensible/horrible attacks - but if you want to have a chance of stopping them at their root, people need to be slightly less myopic in their vision, and see where the motivation came for them in the first place.

If you want to respond to this with more war, then that's not just something that's going to happen to 'other people', far off over there in the ME, where so few people here seem give a toss about people in that region, that the Lebanese bombings today barely even made the news...

No, if you think 'more war' is a good response to this, then you are 100% guaranteed to motivate more people, to bring that war back to Europe as well - that's why we're seeing this today.

BenedrylPete

Donald Trump has taken the time out of his day to twist the knife with a comment relating the tragedy to gun control.

No good opportunity wasted. Money seemingly cant buy class.

BuilderPlumber

The world needs to wake up fast. We live in a world where gangland and organised crime hiding behind warped nationalism and religion is literally calling the shots and deciding how we live our lives. A toxic mix of drug dealers, pimps, neo Nazis and money launderers hiding behind fancy names like al Qaeda, ISIS and the like who have watched one Bond movie too many and who think they are Blofeld are the defacto rulers of the world, dealing their heroin, starting wars and getting the EXACT responses they desire from stupid politicians like Bush2 to further their causes.

These organisations are mucs spelled backwards. They are NOT Islam. They are NOT religion. They seek to spread racism, paranoia, etc. between various communities. They neither represent Arab, European, American, etc. but their own drug dealing, pimping, robbing, terrorist mucs agendas filled with selfishness and hatred. They are common neo Nazi drug dealer filth who want crime to take over the world. And so far, the sad fact is they are winning.

hatrickpatrick

Fleawuss wrote: »

That simply is not true. IS has much deeper roots.

Its wide appeal and membership do not. The Muslim world is angry, particularly young people who are seeing, through the mainstream media, a narrative which shows the West milking the Muslim world for everything it's got and giving nothing in return except bombs and fire. Those young people are those which IS is then able to easily prey upon and radicalise, and ultimately turn into the kind of barbaric monsters we saw tonight.

Jelle1880

Peist2007 wrote: »

Name the terrorist atrocities committed by Muslim extremist groups in the US and Europe since the end of World War 2 to today. Your findings will spike post Afgahn invasion in 2003. That is my point. It aint a difficult one to grasp so i dont know why it is being continuously misunderstood and misrepresented.

FYI, you repeatedly keep mixing up Afghanistan and Iraq.

The invasion of Afghanistan happened in 2001 and was really not that unjustified, due to the brutal regime present in Afghanistan and the links it had with Bin Laden and his ilk

Iraq was in 2003 and was obviously as we all now know a lie and full of manipulations.

BoatMad

Peist2007 wrote: »

Name the terrorist atrocities committed by Muslim extremist groups in the US and Europe since the end of World War 2 to today (whcih was a direct consequence to 911). Your findings will spike post Afgahn invasion in 2003. That is my point. It aint a difficult one to grasp so i dont know why it is being continuously misunderstood and misrepresented.

Muslin Attacks against the " west " , go back millennia, you can't just pick a particular epoch as if it started it.

What's different is the west has become weak , believing , it's live and let live attitude protects it.

Strength is what protects nations

The U.S. Understands that , look at the number of Islamic atrocities that have occurred in the U.S. since 9/11.

We must do the same and " wage a pitiless war " ( Hollande)

Bongalongherb

Samaris wrote: »

Tonight? Mourn and remember that people very like us, our friends and family were murdered in a brutal and senseless way by lunatics who are also humans like ourselves.

Tomorrow - stop scoring points off each other, and treat each other with just a bit more kindness, respect and dignity, whatever their race or nationality or religion. Hate breeds hate.




Or we can continue sniping at each other, iunno.

The only sensible post made here today.

Facekicking 2 The Future

BoatMad wrote: »

Fundamentally this is a manifestation of the Sunni Shia divide. After the U.S. Withdrawal and the lack of stable government in Iraq , iran excerted it's power in becoming the " protectors" of the Shias in Iraq , that left the Sunnis seeking a protector , and that provided the basis for Isis to get traction.

The same thing has occurred in Syria , because the west prevaricated in Syria , the Rebels are now driven into the arms of the ISIL.

A new Ottoman Empire is needed to stabilise the middle east. One stamped " made in the west " on its warheads, arguing about who started it is irelevant , we must end it.

To add:

After the Ottoman Empire fell apart in the 1800's, new artificial borders were drawn for many of the Middle East nations and were divided up among where the oilfields were, tribes of people that ordinarily would have never had contact or had anything to do with each other were suddenly thrown together.

Bad things could only happen, but things can get better.
In the mid 20th century, though there were great success to amazingly western like democracies because they did it from the ground and dealt with building of cities and infastructure with help from the USA bidding for clients to build roads and the like. But it was very much of themselves, self directed

Look at pictures of Afghanistan from the 60's and you'll sean upcoming western-like paradise on the road to somewhere and zero burqa enforcement. Its surreal. I can't post a link because my post count is too low

It absolutely haunting to see what was lost

Peist2007

Jelle1880 wrote: »

FYI, you repeatedly keep mixing up Afghanistan and Iraq.

The invasion of Afghanistan happened in 2001 and was really not that unjustified, due to the brutal regime present in Afghanistan and the links it had with Bin Laden and his ilk

Iraq was in 2003 and was obviously as we all now know a lie and full of manipulations.

And what has happened since then? Has the Muslim world reacted in a way we didnt see prior to Afghanistan and Iraq? I am going to tease this out of you eventually.

Dick phelan

Well that's the Syrian refugees fcuked, after tonight no country is going to want to take in any of them.

BoatMad

Jelle1880 wrote: »

FYI, you repeatedly keep mixing up Afghanistan and Iraq.

The invasion of Afghanistan happened in 2001 and was really not that unjustified, due to the brutal regime present in Afghanistan and the links it had with Bin Laden and his ilk

Iraq was in 2003 and was obviously as we all now know a lie and full of manipulations.

Yes we should have invaded Saudi Arabia

Happyman42

meepins wrote: »

Okay and then what should we do now about it?

Breathe deeply, mourn the dead, realise that there are multitudes of the people who died tragically in Paris tonight, dying every week in the countries these people (the killers) are from and try and first, stop that and then try to allow them to live without the jackboot of American and European interest dictating how they do that.
Negotiation, diplomacy, persuasion etc, what our developed world is supposedly all about.

BoatMad

Dick phelan wrote: »

Well that's the Syrian refugees fcuked, after tonight no country is going to want to take in any of them.

Absolutely