Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

in fairness, it depends on the country.

Egypt, for example, has about 10% Cristians (I think, Coptic Christians), and they are most certainly not discriminated against..

That's funny because a friend over there said that there were quite a number of attacks against Egyptian Christian churches. Would that not be discrimination???

No need for pin point attacks. Anyone in the regions they occupy are supporters, they would not be tolerated if they were not supporters.
Cobra '' You're a disease, and I'm the cure''

Peist2007 wrote: »

Ok. So it has existed for a very long time. Fair enough. Can you tell me about the atrocities committed in European capitals by Muslim extremists prior to the night we all watched Kabul being bombed live on Sky News? You're ignoring the blatantly obvious, this is all borne from the bombing, drone attacks, armies occupying the middle east and the taking of their primary resource, their oil. I cannot break it down any more.

Yeah, you've been repeating the same stuff ad infinitum, we all get it.

Western interference has definitely destabilised the entire area, there is nobody who will argue that however that doesn't mean that the West has brought this on itself, or is responsible for the rise of radical Islam.

Islam in itself is centuries behind the West when it comes to democracy, religious freedom, equality,...

That's not me being an Islamophobe, but it's a simple fact.

You can keep saying how this is all the West's fault, but you're the one ignoring the blatant obvious, which is that Islam as a religion has a big problem that is caused by itself and not the West.

But i'm out, you can keep repeating the same stuff over and over again, some of us need sleep.

edit: As for the argument that we're stealing their oil. The vast (and I do mean absolutely vast) majority of oil in the Middle East is still in Arab hands and will probably be so until they run out.

BoatMad wrote: »

What a silly little comment, whole courses of histories , countries created , destroyed , as a result of violence.

1000s of conflicts are resolved by violence , often it's the only way. The problem today is we ha e begun to beleive our own pacifist propaganda that we can talk our way out of conflicts.

What we must accept is that military conflicts are messy affairs. But we in the west have unsurpassed military might. What we don't have is the resolve to act mercilessly and our enmities Ray on that softness , as a result innocents die at a concert.

As hollande said tonight " we will wage a war that will be pitiless " . Now we must put away such pacifist opinions and resolve to utterly destroy our enemies. In that we , the westm have the best firepower advantage the world has ever seen.

The irony of this post, when ISIS' expansion has been entirely facilitated and enabled by the invasion of Iraq, is hilarious. Or it would be, if the situation wasn't so serious.

None of this would be happening if the West had just left the Middle East the f*ck alone.

asherbassad wrote: »

Has anybody stopped for a minute and asked "why" this happened or is happening?

The usual "they're barbarian rats" or "they hate us for our freedoms" will be frothed out by some. But really...why has this happened? It never happened 200 years ago when Muslims were just the same. It never happened even 60 years ago when these "mud people" knew how to use a telephone.

Why is it happening? Something caused this. Something must have triggerred this level of violence and murder.

And again.....qui bono?

Fundamentally this is a manifestation of the Sunni Shia divide. After the U.S. Withdrawal and the lack of stable government in Iraq , iran excerted it's power in becoming the " protectors" of the Shias in Iraq , that left the Sunnis seeking a protector , and that provided the basis for Isis to get traction.

The same thing has occurred in Syria , because the west prevaricated in Syria , the Rebels are now driven into the arms of the ISIL.

A new Ottoman Empire is needed to stabilise the middle east. One stamped " made in the west " on its warheads, arguing about who started it is irelevant , we must end it.

asherbassad wrote: »

Has anybody stopped for a minute and asked "why" this happened or is happening?

A lot of people seem to just prefer to say it's simply because they're evil. We're the good guys, they're the bad guys and it's as simple as that. I don't think people really want to know the reasons behind it, they just like to look at things in black and white.

I remember in the wake of the Charlie Hebdo attacks I read an article and it said "Maybe all newspaper and television reports should carry a “history corner”, a little reminder that nothing – absolutely zilch – happens without a past"

It's something that a lot of people choose to ignore!!!!

Peist2007 wrote: »

Arrogance and ignorance. Unreal.

No, simple economic and military might. What we lack is resolve and that is slowly being beaten back into us

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Your second sentence is logically incompatible with your first.
To break your fallacy into bullets:
1: Western interference has destabilised the entire Middle East.
2: Radical Islam has exploded in the vacuum directly caused by the West's interference.
3: This particular brand of Radical Islam was born in a Middle Eastern country which is ruled by as egregious a regime as any other but which the West collaborates with and tolerates the behaviour of.
4: The West has not brought this on itself.

Can you honestly not see where the gap in your logic is? This mess is entirely the West's making.

It's only incompatible if you're dead set on blaming everyone but Islamists for what happened. Which seems to be the case here.

This self-pitying attitude where the West is the big bad bully responsible for all the actions of radical Islamists really is pathetic.

It seems to be the favourite argument for certain people who are afraid to simply come out and say that Islam has a big problem. There really is no debating with it.
I'm just glad you didn't say the people in Paris had it coming.

Jelle1880 wrote: »

You seem so set in this mentality of self-pity

Self pity? How's that?

where the West is the big bad bully responsible for everything wrong in the region, despite the fact that it was earlier pointed out that the majority of casualties from ISIS, Al Qaeda,... are fellow Muslims.

That has nothing to do with the fact that the West has created the conditions for these f*ckers to thrive.

Radical Islam is the real problem here, and as long as you won't see it then there really is no use debating it with you.

Radical Islam is the real problem here. Radical Islam is directly strengthened by Western powers' foreign policy.