Attitudes to drink driving

seamus · 13-11-2015 11:28AM

Conall Cernach wrote: »

Back about 30 odd years ago my father was in a crash after having a "couple" (but probably half a dozen in reality) of whiskeys. By sheer luck the other driver was also drunk driving and the only damage done was to each others cars rather than to some innocent people. They were both banned for a year and in my father's case at least he got used to not taking the car to the pub.

Yeah, judicial attitude to it have changed, though not as quickly as the public's. There are still a few judges who'd have a few pints in the pub and then drive home. And then refuse the breathalyser when stopped.

About 45 years ago at this stage, my Dad was driving home with my Mum one night, stone cold sober. Came around a bend and next thing a motorbike smashes into them, head-on. Been driving on the wrong side of the road at 2am with no lights on.
Bike was destroyed, guy carted off to hospital. There was no proof the guy didn't have his lights on, my Dad ended up in court charged with dangerous driving.

Luckily through family connections they found someone who had been at a party with the motorcyclist and had witnessed him get onto the bike blind drunk and drive off with no lights on.

When challenged about what was to be done about the motorcyclist, the prosecuting Garda said that the fright the guy got from the crash and the hospital stay would be enough to scare him straight, and so did nothing about it.

jimgoose · 13-11-2015 11:29AM

Knex. wrote: »

...Lived in Austin for a few months before and the amount of drink driving absolutely shocked me, actually. Its so damn prevalent. Not just a pint or two either, you have a load of people driving after a night out, no problem.

The notion of checkpoints as implemented here doesn't exist in the USA, particularly in Texas, so some people do as they please. However, if you are caught DUI you get the book thrun at you in a big way.

seamus · 13-11-2015 11:33AM

jimgoose wrote: »

The notion of checkpoints as implemented here doesn't exist in the USA, particularly in Texas, so some people do as they please. However, if you are caught DUI you get the book thrun at you in a big way.

Actually, I disagree. The short-term pain is higher, but the long-term pain is lower.

A DUI or DWI in the US will have you spending the night in jail, marched in front of a judge in a prison jumpsuit, who'll issue a small fine and order you to complete a couple of hours drivers education and attend a couple of AA meetings.

Then you hop in your car and drive away. Two weeks later your "sentence" is complete.
That's not to say we're tough on drink-drivers in Ireland, but in most cases the penalties are enough to act as a strong deterrent for all except the most belligerent.

In the US, a DUI is just not that big a deal. You'll experience a small spike in your insurance (if you even have any) and a couple of weeks of inconvenience. Weighed up against the odds of being caught, many people just don't care.

jimgoose · 13-11-2015 11:40AM

seamus wrote: »

...In the US, a DUI is just not that big a deal. You'll experience a small spike in your insurance (if you even have any) and a couple of weeks of inconvenience. Weighed up against the odds of being caught, many people just don't care.

Mmm. I suppose so, but in Texas at any rate a first DUI carries a fine of up to $2,000, minimum 3 days in jail and a license suspension of 90 days.

Clearlier · 13-11-2015 11:50AM

Filmer Paradise wrote: »

I started driving on the roads at the turn of the '80s. No licence, too young I was 12. Never much of a drinker, but I'm sure I drove over the limit a few times.

Still here, nobody hurt. No big deal.

The hand-wringing that goes on now about every simple thing has to be seen to be believed.

Nowadays you need a licence to use an angle grinder on a building site. Not only that, you need an additional licence to change the disc on it. All money out of the working man's pocket BTW.

I'm thinking a lot of the AH crowd have employment in the ever expanding Health & Safety industry. They got a handy number on the sly thru relations because they couldn't or wouldn't do a productive job.

Now they're on here crowing about what people should or shouldn't be doing. It's their stock in trade...

the_syco wrote: »

Seemed people had more cop on back then. The ****s on the road now can barely drive sober!

There were a lot fewer cars on the road back then but over 500 people a year were dying in car crashes, now with a lot more cars on the road the last time that more than 200 people were killed was 2010 but yeah it was definitely much better when everyone had a bit of cop on. Car safety had a big role to play in that but so do public attitudes towards things like drink driving.

The anti-Health and Safety brigade do my head in. Life expectancy in Ireland is 8 years greater than it was in 1980. We have a lot fewer people getting a knock on the door at 2am from the Gardai to tell them that their loved on is dead.

I left school 20 years ago. It was a small school and there was a tradition in the school where the final year pupils brought the staff out to dinner. We got two big shocks at the meal. We discovered that the head who was completely draconian in finding and penalising smokers was herself a chimney smoker and another respected teacher who subsequently became head drank loads and hopped into the car straight afterwards and drove away. He drove past us as we all congregated outside the restaurant after the meal and we were just astonished that he could have done it. I do wonder if a couple of people looked at him and thought that if he could do it then they could do it too.

Although in no way representative the poll as it currently stands doesn't surprise me with people older than me (40+ age bracket) more likely to think of drink driving as acceptable.

Samaris · 13-11-2015 12:09PM

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the younger generations all grew up with those damned Man of the World car crash ads that probably needed a watershed!

Seriously, one of my strongest TV-related childhood memories is staring wide-eyed at the television while people got hideously mangled (remember the couple leaning against the wall and the car smashes into him and takes off her legs? And the sprog in the yellow shirt playing in the back garden with the football?)

"Never, ever drink and drive. Could you live with the shame?"

Growing up with those ads would scare you off the notion of drink-driving for life.

So working as intended, I guess!

Conchir · 13-11-2015 12:10PM

Encouraging trend in the poll. The younger the age bracket, the less percentage of people who think it's acceptable.

Pretty much what I expected too.

meeeeh · 13-11-2015 12:23PM

Snickers Man wrote: »

You see, there's Ireland's "drinking problem" right there: You're not drinking properly unless you're getting pissed. Everything else is incomprehensible.

It's ridiculous. It's destructive. it's not good for you. It's not even particularly pleasant. Especially if it's habitual.

I admit, I have been severely pissed in my life. I will probably do so again. If Ireland win the World Cup, or beat the All Blacks, or I have a lottery win. But generally speaking I like to have a few pints fairly regularly. If I'm meeting people for an evening I may have four or five (and wouldn't dream of driving after such a load) but if i pop into the pub for one or two after work that's great. And it doesn't impair me at all so why the hell can't I then drive home? I'm not breaking any law.

The problem with your attitude is that it informs much of our legal policy and much of what we do is counter productive. By erroneously claiming that drinking one pint is morally equivalent to drinking ten we actually encourage the latter.

Surprise surprise the Irish don't drink a lot of alcohol in an overall sense compared with other countries in Europe. We do tend to binge drink more: ie store up all our drinking for major sessions. I'm not sure it's a good idea.

Two will do.

I agree with this. With the exception of Ireland and UK the countries with the most unhealthy attitude to alcohol have the strictest laws, basically Russia, Eastern Europe and a bit less Scandinavia. Countries where alcohol is something that is part of a good meal have a bit less strict measures. I wonder which are the countries with more damage because of alcohol abuse.

Snickers Man · 13-11-2015 12:42PM

meeeeh wrote: »

I agree with this. With the exception of Ireland and UK the countries with the most unhealthy attitude to alcohol have the strictest laws, basically Russia, Eastern Europe and a bit less Scandinavia. Countries where alcohol is something that is part of a good meal have a bit less strict measures. I wonder which are the countries with more damage because of alcohol abuse.

Nail on head. The Scandinavians, especially the Swedes, are bigger pissheads than we are. And the ONLY people in europe with more expensive alcohol.

I want to reiterate. I am NOT in favour of driving after a shed load of pints. I AM in favour of proper enforcement of sensible drinking limits. Randon Garda breath test checkpoints are a good idea, as far as I'm concerned.

But Never Ever drink and drive doesn't save a whole lot of lives, and merely displaces dysfunctional drinking away from the pub to the home. Or the public park.

Tarzana2 · 13-11-2015 12:45PM

Filmer Paradise wrote: »

I started driving on the roads at the turn of the '80s. No licence, too young I was 12. Never much of a drinker, but I'm sure I drove over the limit a few times.

Still here, nobody hurt. No big deal.

The hand-wringing that goes on now about every simple thing has to be seen to be believed.

Nowadays you need a licence to use an angle grinder on a building site. Not only that, you need an additional licence to change the disc on it. All money out of the working man's pocket BTW.

I'm thinking a lot of the AH crowd have employment in the ever expanding Health & Safety industry. They got a handy number on the sly thru relations because they couldn't or wouldn't do a productive job.

Now they're on here crowing about what people should or shouldn't be doing. It's their stock in trade...

Were you not a bit embarrassed hitting the 'Submit Reply' button on the above drivel?

osarusan · 13-11-2015 12:47PM

'Sure I'm grand after a few pints, not affected at all' makes me want to beat somebody's brains in.

Tarzana2 · 13-11-2015 12:51PM

Beau Unkempt Package wrote: »

Are you from a city or urban area as I think its more a city vs county thing rather than an age thing.

You've brought up this crap before. I highly doubt everyone posting on here denigrating drink driving is from an urban area. I'm grew up in the rural west of Ireland and consider drink driving unacceptable.

Beau Unkempt Package wrote: »

As I said earlier I'm 30 and I would say most of my friends wouldn't have much issue with driving after 2 or 3 pints, in fact at a friends wedding a while back probably 7 or 8 cars of us all pulled into the local on the way to the reception and all of us driving had 2 or 3 quick pints and drove on the 12 miles or so to the reception after (same story at most other wedding I've been to also).

That's kinda sad. You're heading to a reception, where there will be booze sold and you can't even wait that long?

colossus-x · 13-11-2015 12:58PM

The people who think its okay to have a pint or two before driving are the same people who bitch about cyclists who they see without a helmet or high viz jacket.

thelad95 · 13-11-2015 12:59PM

Snickers Man wrote: »

There has to be an issue for the young and righteously indignant to get very priggish over in every generation. Right now, it seems to be against those who have a responsible--although not puritanical--attitude to drinking and driving.

Don't concur with your vehemence at all. It seems we won't be friends.

There is absolutely no such thing as responsible drink driving and if you think there is, you shouldn't be on the road. One pint may not make you drunk in the traditional sense but will usually have a small effect on your reaction speeds and hand-eye co-ordination, which guess what?! are both pretty important when it comes to driving.

I'm not being 'priggish' or 'righteously indignant' for the sake of it. If you're willing to put your life and the life of others in danger, even if only slightly, you shouldn't have a driving license.

RobertKK · 13-11-2015 01:14PM

I rarely drink, but if I do plan on having a drink my motto is:
If you drinl, don't drive.
If you drive, don't drink.
I just think you have to think of the lives of others first, kill yourself from having a drink is one thing, killing or injuring someone else is an entire different thing.

gormdubhgorm · 13-11-2015 01:20PM

thelad95 wrote: »

There is absolutely no such thing as responsible drink driving and if you think there is, you shouldn't be on the road. One pint may not make you drunk in the traditional sense but will usually have a small effect on your reaction speeds and hand-eye co-ordination, which guess what?! are both pretty important when it comes to driving.

I'm not being 'priggish' or 'righteously indignant' for the sake of it. If you're willing to put your life and the life of others in danger, even if only slightly, you shouldn't have a driving license.

Exactly any fool knows that even a few pints impairs judgement. Anyone who says otherwise is Codding themselves. I remember driving to work the morning AFTER a Christmas do. I was shocked at the way I was driving. I was obviously over the limit. I thought I was alert and attentive but in reality I was not switched on. For instance a plastic bag blowing across the road caused me to brake hard I was too clouded to know what it was first glance. I was not alert at lights either.
Also I will be honest I had assumed that a guy with a username thelad95 would drink and drive. But I stand corrected if you can see the dangers why do other people pretend they do not exist? Is it a bravado machoism? Or are people just thick/stubborn?

meeeeh · 13-11-2015 01:24PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Exactly any fool knows that even a few pints impairs judgement. Anyone who says otherwise is Codding themselves. I remember driving to work the morning AFTER a Christmas do. I was shocked at the way I was driving. I was obviously over the limit. I thought I was alert and attentive but in reality I was not switched on. For instance a plastic bag blowing across the road caused me to brake hard I was too clouded to know what it was first glance. I was not alert at lights either.
Also I will be honest I had assumed that a guy with a username thelad95 would drink and drive. But I stand corrected if you can see the dangers why do other people pretend they do not exist? Is it a bravado machoism? Or are people just thick/stubborn?

I don't know, you tell us because you did it.

Snickers Man · 13-11-2015 02:13PM

thelad95 wrote: »

There is absolutely no such thing as responsible drink driving and if you think there is, you shouldn't be on the road.

Well there is and I do and I am. And you're not going to stop me; neither are you going to goad me into being irresponsible (by my own definition) because I know I'm right.

thelad95 wrote: »

I'm not being 'priggish' or 'righteously indignant' for the sake of it. If you're willing to put your life and the life of others in danger, even if only slightly, you shouldn't have a driving license.

Looks like you're agreeing with me. We won't be friends.

Peist2007 · 13-11-2015 02:17PM

Deleted User wrote: »

It's just a complete culture change. Many in my age group and older would regale of days of drinking blind drunk and thought nothing of it, and remember the days when we would think nothing of cramming 6 into a Starlet after a match and a few pints or coming home from the local disco with a jarred driver in the early hours.

It's the same thing with baby seats. Grew up in an era when kids would be in the front seat with no seat belt. But you wouldn't dream of it now. Cars are more powerful, far more dangerous, Gardai are more vigilant, public opinion has gone completely against it.

An example of someone who needs to be told what is right and wrong. A sheep, if you will.

Ghost Buster · 13-11-2015 02:19PM

The worst Ive ever done was nursed a pint over about two hours and then driven. It really didnt feel right.I dont mean morally. I could actually feel it. Psychological perhaps but I wont repeat it.

Snickers Man · 13-11-2015 02:20PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I remember driving to work the morning AFTER a Christmas do. I was shocked at the way I was driving. I was obviously over the limit. I thought I was alert and attentive but in reality I was not switched on. For instance a plastic bag blowing across the road caused me to brake hard I was too clouded to know what it was first glance. I was not alert at lights either.

That's irresponsible driving. By my definition.

I said in my original post that I had never "knowingly" got pissed and driven. But there was one occasion, more than 20 years ago, when I drove home the morning after the night before, in reality the afternoon after the early morning before, a heavy night of celebration in a hotel where I was staying. It had involved a series of "boat-race" competitions, ie relays of silly men racing each other to drink a series of shorts.

The following day I left it as long as I could before checking out, not because I felt drunk but because I felt very ill. indeed I had to stop twice on the way home to, er, expurgate.

Later, talking to a friend, he told me I was lucky not to have been breathalysed as I would probably have been well over the limit.

That shocked me. I was not then aware of the morning after effect. As I said it was 20+ years ago. I have never done that since. I now know better. As I presume do most people thanks to the scare stories the guards put out about catching people in the morning during the Christmas season.

And quite right too.

Never EVER get drunk and drive. Not even the next day.

blue note · 13-11-2015 02:46PM

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has been said already.

But I don't think the absolute attitudes to drink driving are fair. There's a big difference between someone who was marginally over the limit driving and someone who drove home after 4 pints or something. But it's become the worst thing you can do in a car. Whereas, there are other driving problems which are similarly dangerous. Lots of people have proudly told me of outrageous speeds that they have done on motorways and backroads. They might apologise for them, but do so with a cheeky grin on their face. Or people driving when they clearly need more sleep to get behind a wheel. Someone who drives as part of their job driving home at 2 in the morning after a long week and saying that they fought to stay awake the whole way, people home from a long plane journey who thinks it's okay to drive home instead of sleeping first. Driving in these instances is worse than driving marginally over the limit, but hardly even frowned upon by most people.

I wouldn't be surprised if tiredness and speed are bigger factors in accidents than alcohol. There needs to be a shift in attitudes in relation to these to make them socially unacceptable. If we cut these down as much as we have drink driving we'd have much safer roads.

Tarzana2 · 13-11-2015 02:59PM

blue note wrote: »

But I don't think the absolute attitudes to drink driving are fair. There's a big difference between someone who was marginally over the limit driving and someone who drove home after 4 pints or something. But it's become the worst thing you can do in a car. Whereas, there are other driving problems which are similarly dangerous.

And many people who oppose drink-driving also oppose these other things. I doubt many people think it's a good idea to drive exhausted.

Mickeroo · 13-11-2015 03:00PM

Is two pints actually under the limit or is that hypothetical?

blue note · 13-11-2015 03:03PM

Mickeroo wrote: »

Is two pints actually under the limit or is that hypothetical?

Two pints is over the limit for most people.

Tarzana2 · 13-11-2015 03:07PM

Mickeroo wrote: »

Is two pints actually under the limit or is that hypothetical?

If drank in quick succession, it's over the limit.

If drank over a good few hours, probably not.

blue note · 13-11-2015 03:08PM

Tarzana2 wrote: »

And many people who oppose drink-driving also oppose these other things. I doubt many people think it's a good idea to drive exhausted.

No-one thinks it's a good idea, but I've spoken to people who wouldn't dream of driving with drink in them (some so much so that if they had a glass of wine with dinner they would refuse to drive 4 hours later) but would regard driving when they badly need sleep as something they just have to do.

dudara · 13-11-2015 03:15PM

On a recent trip to Ohio, in the US, I saw different number plates on some cars. I asked about the difference and I was told that they indicated drivers convicted of a DUI. You had to display the plates for a certain length of time before you could go back to normal plates. Interesting approach.

13-11-2015 03:33PM

Tarzana2 wrote: »

That's kinda sad. You're heading to a reception, where there will be booze sold and you can't even wait that long?

The few pints in the local are an important part of wedding day tradation. More often than not the bride and groom pop in also, there is usually sandwiches organised etc. Well at the weddings I go to anyway.

The pub is usually near the church so everyone heads there after the mass for a few and then onto the reception. People are long enough at the hotel without going straight there from the mass.

Tarzana2 · 13-11-2015 04:49PM

Beau Unkempt Package wrote: »

The few pints in the local are an important part of wedding day tradation. More often than not the bride and groom pop in also, there is usually sandwiches organised etc.

It's never been a part of any wedding I've attended. All rural. The nibbles happen at the reception venue. And tradition or not, it doesn't excuse drink driving.

Attitudes to drink driving

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