Attitudes to drink driving

Snickers Man

The publicity given to the recent tragic case of Ciaran Treacy, the four year old killed in a road accident involving a man who was driving after drinking about 10 pints of cider, has revitalised the issue of drinking and driving.

There have been many threads on this in the past but I would like to get a more detailed picture of people's attitudes. It has been suggested to me that it is people of my age group (50+) who are now more likely to drink and drive than younger people because attitudes have changed thanks to awareness campaigns and, let's face it, detection rates.

Personally, I have never knowingly got pissed and driven. I always restricted my intake if I was driving and religiously held to the adage that "two will do" which was the best advice given to my generation several years ago.

Nowadays the mantra is "Never EVER drink and drive" I personally think that's a load of old bollox but then I am rapidly approaching cranky old man status.

I get very irritated by hand wringing columnists like Miriam Donohe writing that "It should not be acceptable to get behind the wheel of a car with any drink on board. Forget about drink-driving limits."

Here she is equating someone who has one or two pints in the pub after a hard day at the office before driving home with somebody who downs a gallon or so of cider and then staggers into the car. They are NOT morally equivalent.

Or so say I. But what do the rest of you think?

And is it true that younger people are more intolerant of people driving after drinking a legal amount of alcohol than are us older ones?

sonny.knowles

I frown upon it.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I agree with her on a zero limit.

Younger people are more tolerant because they haven't had to see, or live with, the consequences yet.

ElleEm

I would never touch a drink when driving. It is a better view to have as people don't self regulate well. We don't count properly in units, people think food helps absorb drink and people are also stupidly confident with drink on them.

Turtyturd

Younger people are more tolerant of drink driving?

Sounds like generalised 'damn kids' bullsh!t to me.

It's just a complete culture change. Many in my age group and older would regale of days of drinking blind drunk and thought nothing of it, and remember the days when we would think nothing of cramming 6 into a Starlet after a match and a few pints or coming home from the local disco with a jarred driver in the early hours.

It's the same thing with baby seats. Grew up in an era when kids would be in the front seat with no seat belt. But you wouldn't dream of it now. Cars are more powerful, far more dangerous, Gardai are more vigilant, public opinion has gone completely against it.

super_furry

I don't know of anyone under the age of 40 who has drove with drink on them or would even consider it. It seems like it's almost exclusively the older generations.

jamesbere

It should be zero limit, if your stupid enough to drink drive you should have your licence taken off you on the spot. This attitude of ah shur I'll chance it needs to be stamped out.

jamesbere

super_furry wrote: »

I don't know of anyone under the age of 40 who has drove with drink on them or would even consider it. It seems like it's almost exclusively the older generations.

I've known plenty under 40 that have done it, utterly stupid decision making in my mind.

Mesrine65

I'm 50 & would never & have never ridden my motorcycle with drink taken...

I love it too much to lose my licence over it, let alone smashing it/myself or an innocent up.

I'm also a regular cannabis smoker, same rules apply...always!

The Backwards Man

In my opinion, you need two things to improve road safety in general, law enforcement and peer pressure. It's not just drink driving, but mobile phone use, reckless driving, failing to wear seatbelts, you need the fear of falling foul of the law and the guidance of family, friends and society in general to ensure that drivers take responsibility for their own safety and the safety of others.

In the case of drink driving, the 'ah shure be grand (s)he's only going up the road' mentality coupled with the complete lack of enforcement is quickly becoming the norm once again all over the country. You would literally have to run someone over these days to be breathalysed in some areas, and that's not an exaggeration. It's starting to creep in the younger age groups too.

Another major problem I see on the roads lately is unrestrained kids in cars. I'd say it's worse now than it was in the 80s, belt up your kids folks.

smurfjed

My personal limit is ZERO, i have to report any drink related driving issue every 6 months, so if i get convicted I lose my job and my licence would be suspended pending alcoholic rehabilitation, so just not worth it.

ElleEm

smurfjed wrote: »

if i get convicted I lose my job and my licence would be suspended pending alcoholic rehabilitation, so just not worth it.

And all the death it might cause. That is a real buzz kill!

corner of hells

My family have been devastated by drink driving with one cousin dead as a result of his drink driving , his father responsible for the death of a cyclist and with multiple convictions and another uncle managing to get a ban for I think ten years.

So I've never driven under the influence.

Tasden

I don't drive so my opinion on this is probably not valid as such, but I'd never drive after drinking, even if it was only one.

TheNobleKipper

I have a pet hatred of drink drivers, and I grew up with a parent who drank in the car while driving. I don't mind having a pint/ glass of wine when out for dinner and you're staying in the same place for quite a while....but it's completely beyond me how anyone could ever think it's a good idea to have several drinks and get behind the wheel.

The Dogs Bollix

I've done it before. No excuse.

Tasden

I don't understand the "only one" argument. If its only one and it does absolutely nothing to you/doesn't make you tipsy or whatever then why bother at all? Have a soft drink instead. If it does make you a little bit "relaxed" or however you want to phrase it, then it has altered your brain in some way and you should not drive, regardless of whether it will have "worn off" or not.

Sonics2k

Not to brag, but I know I'm a good driver.

With that said, I would never drive after a single drink and frankly I think anyone who does drive should have their licence revoked for 6 months, and anyone who knocks someone over should be charged with murder.

suicide_circus

99% of people think they're a good driver, self analysis is pretty useless here since the true figure isn't anywhere near that.

Totally stupid to have a drink of any kind and get behind the wheel.

AnonoBoy

The Backwards Man wrote: »

It's not just drink driving, but mobile phone use, reckless driving, failing to wear seatbelts, you need the fear of falling foul of the law and the guidance of family, friends and society in general to ensure that drivers take responsibility for their own safety and the safety of others.

I was a passenger in a car on the motorway recently. The car ahead of us was doing around 100 kph then speeding up to 120 then slowing again. As we moved out and overtook it I glanced over to see the driver of the car happily scrolling through stuff on their phone.

Incredibly stupid. You're on a motorway and checking Facebook? Some people shouldn't be allowed to drive.

One eyed Jack

suicide_circus wrote: »

99% of people think they're a good driver, self analysis is pretty useless here since the true figure isn't anywhere near that.

Totally stupid to have a drink of any kind and get behind the wheel.

Far too simplistic this really, but I'm going to go on the idea that you meant an alcoholic drink of any kind, and get behind the wheel.

The problem isn't actually the amount of alcohol a person drinks, it's their attitude to drink, and this thread is going to be full of "I'd never get behind the wheel after a drink". Well that's great.

But there aren't going to be too many will admit that they feel they should be entitled to consume as much alcohol as they like, and drive, which makes a thread like this fairly pointless.

Tarzana2

AnonoBoy wrote: »

I was a passenger in a car on the motorway recently. The car ahead of us was doing around 100 kph then speeding up to 120 then slowing again. As we moved out and overtook it I glanced over to see the driver of the car happily scrolling through stuff on their phone.

Incredibly stupid. You're on a motorway and checking Facebook? Some people shouldn't be allowed to drive.

Totally reckless.

I hate when drink driving proponents bring up stuff like "Yeah, well nobody has a problem with people using their phone when driving!" Wrong! Lots of people have a problem with it!

syklops

Tasden wrote: »

I don't drive so my opinion on this is probably not valid as such, but I'd never drive after drinking, even if it was only one.

Also don't drive, but, I can't imagine going for a couple and then driving. I'd rather get a few cans or a bottle of wine and go home. Feet up and relax. Not have a drive home when im wobbly on my feet ahead of me.

Im a big guy. And I like a pint and some days I could have 3 pints and not feel buzzed, but I think its a dangerous habit to get into, because there have been a few times when i missed lunch or maybe was just under the weather when 2 pints had me well buzzed. Getting into a car and driving.... No.

Inspector Coptoor

Depends on context.
Depends on size of the person and the social equation in question.

I recently attended a wedding.
Drove to the church, then drove to the reception for 16:00.
Had a bottle of beer.
18:00 - glass of red with dinner.
Sparkling water for the rest of the night.
Drove home at 01:30.

Fail to see the issue.


This is in stark contrast with going into the pub, lashing in two quick pints and then driving somewhere.

shugy

Nothing wrong with drink driving as long as one knows his/her limit. People keep going on about this one and that one died because of it. That's ballix IMO, people die on the roads every day of the week and we never hear about it. I don't agree with drinking 10 pints and getting behind the wheel but a few pints, ffs giver your head a shake.

30 and wouldn't think twice about driving after 2 pints.

The whole "oh I won't even smell a drink if I'm driving" is sensationalist nonsense. Particularly as half the people who say it don't think twice about driving the next day when they could well be over the limit too. It's not the people with 2 or 3 pints that are the problem it's people totally hammered that are a huge danger on the road.

Tarzana2

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Depends on context.
Depends on size of the person and the social equation in question.

I recently attended a wedding.
Drove to the church, then drove to the reception for 16:00.
Had a bottle of beer.
18:00 - glass of red with dinner.
Sparkling water for the rest of the night.
Drove home at 01:30.

Fail to see the issue.


This is in stark contrast with going into the pub, lashing in two quick pints and then driving somewhere.

That seems fine, plenty of time for the effects to wear off.

Tarzana2

Beau Unkempt Package wrote: »

30 and wouldn't think twice about driving after 2 pints.

The whole "oh I won't even smell a drink if I'm driving" is sensationalist nonsense. Particularly as half the people who say it don't think twice about driving the next day when they could well be over the limit too. It's not the people with 2 or 3 pints that are the problem it's people totally hammered that are a huge danger on the road.

Well, happily the law disagrees with you.

crosstownk

While I've no real problem with someone having one small glass of wine over a meal and not driving until a few hours after, I do think the limit should be zero. That gets rid of speculation as to whether someone has or hasn't 'one too many' to drive. It's just zero and simple.

bruschi

Beau Unkempt Package wrote: »

30 and wouldn't think twice about driving after 2 pints.

The whole "oh I won't even smell a drink if I'm driving" is sensationalist nonsense. Particularly as half the people who say it don't think twice about driving the next day when they could well be over the limit too. It's not the people with 2 or 3 pints that are the problem it's people totally hammered that are a huge danger on the road.

totally disagree. couldn't disagree more to be honest. The people who are the biggest danger are the ones with only 3 or 4 pints in them, as they think they are fine and drive as if they are fine, keeping on speeding and not taking any precaution to an inhibited position. Those that are hammered are also dangerous no doubt, but many when absolutely hammered barely go any speed at all and are more a danger to themselves driving slow as they know they are hammered and they react to that by changing their driving style.

Its the ones who think that the drink hasnt affected them that are by far the bigger concern.

emigrate2012

Plenty of people drink drive around my local, in fact I'd venture to between 40-50% of the regulars(generally in the 40-60 bracket) and it's not particularly frowned upon tbh.
What is frowned upon are the odd time one of them are elephants and insist on motoring home any. When they get home safe and are seen the next day, they're berated about it but that doesn't last long as it's kinda pot kettle black ****.

It's generational more than anything, it was okay back then very hard to get out of that mindset. 2 have been done in the past 7-8 yrs outta probably 12-15 lad's that do it almost daily, min 2 pints.
One was only after coming back from a 10 yr ban. The other got the minimum ban.
Say 10 lad's, x 250 days = a very low detection rate.
It's a very prominent/well known pub.

Mantis Toboggan

jamesbere wrote: »

It should be zero limit, if your stupid enough to drink drive you should have your licence taken off you on the spot. This attitude of ah shur I'll chance it needs to be stamped out.

Ah how do you gauge when you've zero alcohol in your system the morning after?

NiallBoo

The phrasing of the original question it's very interesting.

"Driving after two pints...Confident of being under the limit"

I'm more confident of most things after two pints, it doesn't mean I'm right.
The whole point is that your judgment is diminished after drinking so you're not in a position to make that call.
2 points would make someone...4 times the limit is it?

AnonoBoy

Beau Unkempt Package wrote: »

The whole "oh I won't even smell a drink if I'm driving" is sensationalist nonsense.

What are you yammering on about here?

Because I won't get behind the wheel if I've had a drink it's "sensationalist nonsense?" What does that even mean?

It's not hard to not drive a car. Or to not take a drink if you are driving. It's not an impossible task or even a crazily difficult task. So how on earth is it "sensationalist nonsense"?

Just because you regularly drive with a couple of pints on you doesn't mean that people who do the more sensible thing and don't do that are somehow lying or exaggerating.

AnonoBoy

emigrate2012 wrote: »

One was only after coming back from a 10 yr ban. .

Imagine the mind-numbing stupidity of someone who gets banned from driving for ten years and then as soon as they're legally allowed back behind the wheel again they go and do the same thing again.

I actually can't get my head around how thick that person must be.

NachoBusiness

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of7dg8AfGxg

username2013

Tasden wrote: »

I don't understand the "only one" argument. If its only one and it does absolutely nothing to you/doesn't make you tipsy or whatever then why bother at all? Have a soft drink instead. If it does make you a little bit "relaxed" or however you want to phrase it, then it has altered your brain in some way and you should not drive, regardless of whether it will have "worn off" or not.

Because not everyone is drinking to get drunk. I'd prefer to drink a nice beer instead of coke, sprite etc.

meeeeh

Tasden wrote: »

I don't understand the "only one" argument. If its only one and it does absolutely nothing to you/doesn't make you tipsy or whatever then why bother at all? Have a soft drink instead. If it does make you a little bit "relaxed" or however you want to phrase it, then it has altered your brain in some way and you should not drive, regardless of whether it will have "worn off" or not.

Well this is an attitude of an alcoholic. I have no problem admitting I will have a glass of wine, one dl, which is about half the small bottle they sell in bars. I don't do it for the kick I do it because it compliments food. The moment I will need it to relax It will be time to stop drinking completely.

So yes I would have a glass, but I am positive I am under the limit. I don't feel guilty, the law wouldn't consider it illegal and that is it for me.

Boskowski

The problem with drink driving limits is the built-in ambiguity of the limit itself.
I've known people for whom 2 isn't enough to even function properly - hardened alcos basically* - and I know people who are half drunk after 2.
Best way is therefore to operate a zero limit policy.

*Obviously people in this group shouldn't be allowed to drive at all. Only brought in to make the point.

emigrate2012

Yes, absolutely thick. But in all other spheres is a highly intelligent person.
Not defending these guy's and the decisions they've made.

Regardless of fines, if people want to drive, they will.

seamus

It's a bit of a silly question. The only way you can be confident of being under the limit after two pints is to take a test to confirm it.

If you're just winging it and going on "feeling", then you won't be under the limit, simple as.

Tasden

username2013 wrote: »

Because not everyone is drinking to get drunk. I'd prefer to drink a nice beer instead of coke, sprite etc.

I'd prefer beer to coke myself but if i was driving then taste wouldn't be more important than safety. So i still wouldn't prioritise one nice glass of beer over safety. I'd order my favourite soft drink.

No. And my age is no business to you.

Can you think someone who has taken alcohol can be a good judge of their own sobriety?

username2013

Tasden wrote: »

I'd prefer beer to coke myself but if i was driving then taste wouldn't be more important than safety. So i still wouldn't prioritise one nice glass of beer over safety. I'd order my favourite soft drink.

Fair enough you're entitled to your opinion, but I would argue that the reason the limit is set to 0.5 rather than 0.0 is because the authorities (in numerous countries) have decreed that it is safe to drive with that amount of alcohol.

Lia_lia

I never have/never will drink and drive. Won't get in a car with someone who has had a drink either. A friend of my brothers got a 3 year ban for drink driving which is almost over. I asked him if he would ever drink and drive again and he said "probably" :mad:

The phone thing really does my head in too. I always see people texting/on facebook/taking calls etc when driving. The ones that steer with their knees whilst texting really piss me off. If sending a text is really so important then pull over!

Tasden

username2013 wrote: »

Fair enough you're entitled to your opinion, but I would argue that the reason the limit is set to 0.5 rather than 0.0 is because the authorities (in numerous countries) have decreed that it is safe to drive with that amount of alcohol.

Not saying I'm right.
Just personally don't see why anybody would take that risk for something that is not necessary in the slightest. Regardless of the law.
Although I was also the person who didn't stay in the same room as a smoker while pregnant, or near microwaves, or touch a drop of alcohol or coffee. So I'm a bit "all or nothing" about these things, i just don't see why people would risk it when they can just as easily avoid it completely.

The Backwards Man

username2013 wrote: »

Fair enough you're entitled to your opinion, but I would argue that the reason the limit is set to 0.5 rather than 0.0 is because the authorities (in numerous countries) have decreed that it is safe to drive with that amount of alcohol.

They haven't degree that it is safe, there is no such as a safe limit in any country anywhere in the world. There is a legal limit which is a totally different thing altogether.

NiallBoo

username2013 wrote: »

Fair enough you're entitled to your opinion, but I would argue that the reason the limit is set to 0.5 rather than 0.0 is because the authorities (in numerous countries) have decreed that it is safe to drive with that amount of alcohol.

0.05...

But anyway, we don't really have a good way of saying what's "safe". Usually a few countries will try reducing the allowed bac, road deaths fall and we copy them.

My guess is that it will be reduced to 0.0 within 15 years.

AnonoBoy

meeeeh wrote: »

So yes I would have a glass, but I am positive I am under the limit. I don't feel guilty, the law wouldn't consider it illegal and that is it for me.

That's alright for some. I myself won't do it but there's a difference between what you're describing and what lots of people do though.

The thread title though is two pints - a good bit more than a small glass and the problem is the people who have one beer and then go - ah sure I'll have one more, I'm grand. And then.... sure one more. And then off they toddle with three pints in them, thinking they're fine because it's two hours later and sure they're "not even tipsy"

meeeeh

I would be surprised if the legal limit would be changed to zero for everyone. Previous limit in Ireland was very high, a lot of others have 0.5 in blood for decades, Ireland just got in line with that few years ago.