Cork GAA Discussion Thread

exiled in the kingdom wrote: »

newcestown v wolftones in intermediate munster final

Lucky to hold on in the end. Clonakenny rallied and got it back to a point but couldn't find the equaliser.

Todays display once again proves how poor a standard our county senior championship in hurling is ..we gave out about Sars but the Glen are very poor......we cant buy a win in this competition now ....Best of Luck to Newcestown in the up coming Munster final .

CORKDOUBLE wrote: »

Todays display once again proves how poor a standard our county senior championship in hurling is ..we gave out about Sars but the Glen are very poor......we cant buy a win in this competition now ....Best of Luck to Newcestown in the up coming Munster final .

The one difference this year in the only comfort is this is the glen ist in twenty five years
The problem with sars was it was not once not twice but four times they failed in munster
So yes the glen done no better but so far it's there only ist chance
Irrespective of today it was good the sars were beaten as if they actually won the county they possibly would have more on the county panel
Credit to newestown and they have the hunger and desire to keep going

Glen were woeful today. No heart or spirit. Hoggy a gifted player but afraid of his life. Fair play Denis Walsh. Hope ye go onto to win Munster.

Smith614 wrote: »

Charleville 2-21 mallow 2-12. Intermediate hurling league final div2. Some great hurling at times .

Some year in winning the league and championship and only one game unbeaten all year by a point v Castlelyons.

Andre 3000 wrote: »

Meade played well considering conditions which were shocking. His great touch was valuable. Played deeper today so had very little if any opportunities on goal but played well. Horgan came on very early due to an injury to Cathrach Keane. Horgan played very well. Probably their best forward on the day. Won a lot of ball, caught several puck outs especially in the second half and chipped over a few lovely points. For a lad who hasn't played much Hurling all year he was very good...he'll definitely start the final considering their injuries. Himself and Meade have cleverness that few their age have. Lovely hurlers.

Have to agree with that. Great touches from both considering the conditions.

Mountainlad wrote: »

Saw Horgan's goal again today, ye should be proud to have a lad with the talent to do that in my opinion.

And for all the knockers he has, if Cork's midfield/defense/management had closedthe game out at the death two years ago, how would ye remember him for getting the winning point in an all ireland final?

You're wasting your time on here when it comes to Hoggy. He's consistently scapegoated.

There was the amazing incident this summer where he was excellent in the first half against Wexford and quiet in the second and was pilloried for not showing up "when it mattered", even though he (as well as Lehane) was a large reason for Cork being so far ahead. Then when he stood up and came up trumps against Clare in the last 15 minutes he was slaughtered by the same posters for not doing the same in the first half.

He has put in some huge performances at some big stages for Cork. He doesn't do it all the time by any means but then that accusation can be levelled against practically all of the Cork team bar maybe Harnedy.

Figsy32 wrote: »

You're wasting your time on here when it comes to Hoggy. He's consistently scapegoated.

There was the amazing incident this summer where he was excellent in the first half against Wexford and quiet in the second and was pilloried for not showing up "when it mattered", even though he (as well as Lehane) was a large reason for Cork being so far ahead. Then when he stood up and came up trumps against Clare in the last 15 minutes he was slaughtered by the same posters for not doing the same in the first half.

He has put in some huge performances at some big stages for Cork. He doesn't do it all the time by any means but then that accusation can be levelled against practically all of the Cork team bar maybe Harnedy.

Sorry now but I don't think he's scape goated in once it's purely on the field of play the critsim is justified and upon reflection if you look at kk and cody attuide to lads like Walsh, Reid for a bit, hogan Carter he dropped them as cody doesn't do this nonense or soft minded approach that is half the reason that cork is where it is in half a game or spell isn't good enough in you must perform for the seventy minutes

No player is guaranteed he's place in kk
Nobody ever doubts horgan point v clare or he's score yesterday as he is the most talented hurler in cork and even twelve years agoapprox or so when he won the christy ring best forward in cork award he had unbelievable talent
That's never in doubt
But it's he's consistency and performance both club in three county finals from play he's been poor from all star when you see lads like Reid Callan joe deane etc doing more from play etc
He hasn't scored enough from play for cork this year imo in around ten points or so in four games this year it's perfectly reasonable to expect more from senior former all star
We can make excuses after excuses the game now doesn't suit he style, he doesn't get protection from the refs when the bottom line is Corbett and Callan tipp were like horgan before but they became consistent
Shefflin was correct in an interview before this year horgan could make the ball talk no doubt about it
But he's not consistent enough in the big games and yes he played better than other games yesterday but aside from the goal if that game is watched again it's reasonable to say he didn't always show for the dirty ball
Compare him to the outstanding shanhan tony kelly Reid Callan from play imo horgan doesn't come close to them
Have no doubt if he was in kk cody would have dropped him and I firmly believe dropping him would make him a much better players just like it did with tj Reid
Cork attuide is though we're always too harsh while year after year ruthless kk absoultey ruthless kk win all ireland after all ireland
There is no maybe imo Harnedy is ten times more value to cork as been cork consistent performance last three years winning all star and nominated for one and if horgan was not starting yes free have to be looked at but lehane could take them
In every single game Harnedy performs and should been captain of cork imo

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Sorry now but I don't think he's scape goated in once it's purely on the field of play the critsim is justified and upon reflection if you look at kk and cody attuide to lads like Walsh, Reid for a bit, hogan Carter he dropped them as cody doesn't do this nonense or soft minded approach that is half the reason that cork is where it is in half a game or spell isn't good enough in you must perform for the seventy minutes

No player is guaranteed he's place in kk
Nobody ever doubts horgan point v clare or he's score yesterday as he is the most talented hurler in cork and even twelve years agoapprox or so when he won the christy ring best forward in cork award he had unbelievable talent
That's never in doubt
But it's he's consistency and performance both club in three county finals from play he's been poor from all star when you see lads like Reid Callan joe deane etc doing more from play etc
He hasn't scored enough from play for cork this year imo in around ten points or so in four games this year it's perfectly reasonable to expect more from senior former all star
We can make excuses after excuses the game now doesn't suit he style, he doesn't get protection from the refs when the bottom line is Corbett and Callan tipp were like horgan before but they became consistent
Shefflin was correct in an interview before this year horgan could make the ball talk no doubt about it
But he's not consistent enough in the big games and yes he played better than other games yesterday but aside from the goal if that game is watched again it's reasonable to say he didn't always show for the dirty ball
Compare him to the outstanding shanhan tony kelly Reid Callan from play imo horgan doesn't come close to them
Have no doubt if he was in kk cody would have dropped him and I firmly believe dropping him would make him a much better players just like it did with tj Reid
Cork attuide is though we're always too harsh while year after year ruthless kk absoultey ruthless kk win all ireland after all ireland
There is no maybe imo Harnedy is ten times more value to cork as been cork consistent performance last three years winning all star and nominated for one and if horgan was not starting yes free have to be looked at but lehane could take them
In every single game Harnedy performs and should been captain of cork imo

I'll answer your points one by one.

I mean scapegoat as in he's the first player people criticise when things go wrong. I think it's a bit of the Pa Cronin syndrome is because he's slow he's an easy target.

Dropping Horgan. You can't compare our current team to any Kilkenny team of the last 15 years. Cody could afford to drop people because of the quality he had on the bench. Look at Cork's options in the forwards. There aren't any. I don't think dropping him for a league game would achieve what you're looking for and to drop him for a championship game would be madness.

Horgan didn't have a great year last year, that's true. He was still in our top 3 forwards though. I'd suggest of our forwards Harnedy was our best forward, by far the most consistent. The next tier would be Lehane and Hoggy who were inconsistent but at times dominated games. All the other forwards, especially in the inside line were all poor. That includes Moylan, Cadogan, Luke O'Farrell and Spillane in the league.

I think there's enough evidence from Lehane for Middleton that he would be nowhere near as reliable as Horgan from frees. We could be costing ourselves 2-3 points per game.

I never compared him to the likes of Callinan, Reid, Kelly or the names you mention. He's not consistent enough to be in that class, but then how many actually are? I compare him to our options and he's without doubt in our top 3 forwards.

I'd happily go along with Harnedy being more valuable. No argument there. If you ask me though name the one Cork man you'd want to have the ball in his hand in the last couple minutes of a championship game to slot a point or to create something and it's Hoggy every time.

Great to see john keirns rip mentioned in the all ireland documentary
A superb keeper and fair play for the part with he's wife and son
Fair play to hes son who done him proud in Croke park in the all ireland double ceremony.

Figsy32 wrote: »

I'll answer your points one by one.

I mean scapegoat as in he's the first player people criticise when things go wrong. I think it's a bit of the Pa Cronin syndrome is because he's slow he's an easy target.

Dropping Horgan. You can't compare our current team to any Kilkenny team of the last 15 years. Cody could afford to drop people because of the quality he had on the bench. Look at Cork's options in the forwards. There aren't any. I don't think dropping him for a league game would achieve what you're looking for and to drop him for a championship game would be madness.

Horgan didn't have a great year last year, that's true. He was still in our top 3 forwards though. I'd suggest of our forwards Harnedy was our best forward, by far the most consistent. The next tier would be Lehane and Hoggy who were inconsistent but at times dominated games. All the other forwards, especially in the inside line were all poor. That includes Moylan, Cadogan, Luke O'Farrell and Spillane in the league.

I think there's enough evidence from Lehane for Middleton that he would be nowhere near as reliable as Horgan from frees. We could be costing ourselves 2-3 points per game.

I never compared him to the likes of Callinan, Reid, Kelly or the names you mention. He's not consistent enough to be in that class, but then how many actually are? I compare him to our options and he's without doubt in our top 3 forwards.

I'd happily go along with Harnedy being more valuable. No argument there. If you ask me though name the one Cork man you'd want to have the ball in his hand in the last couple minutes of a championship game to slot a point or to create something and it's Hoggy every time.

That is a valid argument in horgan could score from any angle where ever he was on the ptich and talent wise he's just in a league of he's own and I think talent wise he's as good as shefflin Reid Callan for pure hurling but he's attuide work is no where near them and Cronin I agree gets like cahalane also unfair criticism when to be fair not most talented hurling wise but they always give huge work ethic and I'm a fan of most
People view horgan point fair enough v clare but for me Cronin goal that he scored a brilliant goal brought cork in to a game cork were out of and in the replay Harnedy also with a goal and in munster final v limerick cork cried out for leadership Harnedy got the goal

Horgan time after time has been held by Noel connor and Peter kelly held him in the all ireland semi final and yes horgan pounced for a goal but too many times he's beaten for he's own ball which has imo a twin effect in if forward looses lot he's battles with he's man he's defence comes under huge pressure as as fast as the ball goes in it comes out again
Even when kk forwards don't score very rarely are they dominated from play

Fair enough we don't have free taker but at least try lehane from frees and Murphy for long range during the league as imo horgan having this attuide he's undroppable despite playing some games good some poor isn't good enough and if he was at least taken off frees he would imo have to do more from play
At the moment he's I think cork second highest scorer ever above Ben o connor and behind ring but in truth from play imo he's way behind them

O connor in two all ireland final in a two and in beaten team got two goals and for club and county always scored from play and worked very hard and o connor was a gifted stick man but he had work rate while horgan imo talent wise better than connor in that good but I would have ben o connor over horgan any day as connor on poor day brings work rate

Timmy mac was another player unfairly critsed in cork in not the most talented but huge huge work rate and all ireland final got three points in 99 and in other ones always delivered imo
Against tipp in under twenty one in thurles was he late goal started the under twenty one success and in killarney in 2004 vital goal yet he was imo never given the credit he deserved

Imo horgan talent some seems to think he can perform some days and not others

Spillane to be fair never got a constant run of games to prove himself
Shefflin was right he can make the ball talk but to be regarded as a great player which he has with out a doubt the talent to be he needs consistency
To be fair even aside from the inter county stage he doesn't always performed in the cork championship and that is poor standard in cork to others so no doubt he has the talent to perform there but he doesn't always match the intensity

By reports here john sullivan cork under seventeen was outstanding in under twenty one game yesterday four points from play in conditions wouldn't suit he's style but he performed in county under twenty one final yet hes only minor
Has to start cork minor this year
Peter casey still harty cup has performed for he's club in both county final and munster so far and hasn't even played under twenty yet but was on the panel yet he's flying at senior so it's not unreasonable to expect a senior all star with nearly nine or so inter county years behind him for cork at senior to do more from play in games

As for last play of the game and one man to have the ball it would have to be Harnedy as he is totally consistent and is a man when the need is greatest leads from the front
How he's not captain imo is beyond me
Should been captain of cork

Andre 3000 wrote: »

Meade played well considering conditions which were shocking. His great touch was valuable. Played deeper today so had very little if any opportunities on goal but played well. Horgan came on very early due to an injury to Cathrach Keane. Horgan played very well. Probably their best forward on the day. Won a lot of ball, caught several puck outs especially in the second half and chipped over a few lovely points. For a lad who hasn't played much Hurling all year he was very good...he'll definitely start the final considering their injuries. Himself and Meade have cleverness that few their age have. Lovely hurlers.

Thank for that horgan got a great review in the paper today and imo could be vital at under twenty one for cork
Huge credit to newestown for having the hunger and desire to push on in munster

Figsy32 wrote: »

John O'Sullivan was superb yesterday. Dragged them back into the game and was one of the few Rockies to handle the conditions.

How was john cashman at full back
Great to see Hallorhan and niall cashman and meaney all playing as there the future for black Rock
Just one point regards horgan and indeed any other players in some times one magic moment seems to cover over other poor aspects of a game when imo it shouldn't

An example in another sport was twenty four years ago ireland number eight Brian Robinson was hailed as magnificent for scoring four tries against poor opposition in group world cup game yet against Australia with minutes to go he received a kick off on he's own twenty two and instead of doing the basic job right as he was a forward and passing to a back like staples or keyes to kick down field he kicked poor ball in to touch with no ground made such that from that line out Australia got a scrum and scored the match winning try

Ireland attuide back then would been to only remember Robinson four tries in groups game yet now any modern coach would critical Robinson decision making at crucial point of the game


Carter got many great goal for kk but it never meant below par performance was not question by kk
The reason I mention kk is cork have no choice to aspire to kk attuide if we're ever going to beat them
Frank flannery spoke how cork will win all ireland in two years
Fair enough i applaud he's drive however saying that then and seeing the panel cork picked with choice captain imo doesn't show ruthless edge imo cork need to win an all ireland

Correct, what an absolutely outstanding goal. There are only 1 or maybe 2 other players at most in the country who would have scored that goal.
But let's be clear here, Hoggie has plenty of knowledgeable hurling people in Cork who can see what he brings. It's just sometimes a minority have the annoying ability to shout loudest and unfortunately longest.