The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V2

JCTO · 21-10-2015 02:57PM

kennyb3 wrote: »

Well 2 gapping on a 3 man front you're meant to be getting double teamed aren't you? [/URL]

Not necessarily as in a standard 3-4 the nose is responsible for the A gaps if he plays a 0 technique and has linebackers covering the B and alternate A gap. If the nose is playing a 1 technique they is practically sitting in the A gap and has a linebacker covering the other A gap and could see a double team. It will depend on what the Oline have called on how the guy gets blocked also. Bigger guys like Wilfork will generally see a double team.

helimachoptor · 21-10-2015 03:04PM

JCTO wrote: »

Not necessarily as in a standard 3-4 the nose is responsible for the A gaps if he plays a 0 technique and has linebackers covering the B and alternate A gap. If the nose is playing a 1 technique they is practically sitting in the A gap and has a linebacker covering the other A gap and could see a double team. It will depend on what the Oline have called on how the guy gets blocked also. Bigger guys like Wilfork will generally see a double team.

:pac::pac:

There's a few guys on the titans site im on that talk about this stuff in great detail, i think one was the o-line coach at some point for the Vols, i generally skip past the posts

kennyb3 · 21-10-2015 03:18PM

JCTO wrote: »

Not necessarily as in a standard 3-4 the nose is responsible for the A gaps if he plays a 0 technique and has linebackers covering the B and alternate A gap. If the nose is playing a 1 technique they is practically sitting in the A gap and has a linebacker covering the other A gap and could see a double team. It will depend on what the Oline have called on how the guy gets blocked also. Bigger guys like Wilfork will generally see a double team.

Yeah badly very put by me. I mean as the premier DE rusher in a 3-4, you're likely going to get double teamed on passing downs (or tripled if your Watt, cox et al.)

My point being most of the premier OLB or DE's are going to find themselves double teamed on passing downs - it's not unique to Cox.

kennyb3 · 21-10-2015 03:23PM

helimachoptor wrote: »

:pac::pac:

There's a few guys on the titans site im on that talk about this stuff in great detail, i think one was the o-line coach at some point for the Vols, i generally skip past the posts

I honestly thinks it's another one of the reasons that makes football so great - so much to understand and work out. The more you can understand, the more you know about what's really going on on the field.

I'd be more familiar with the Bears old 4-3, cover 2 defence. We switched to a 3-4 press man system (with some cover 2 & 3 thrown in) and it's been really interesting to learn.

I'm no expert in it all, but if you try, it's really fun.

phatkev · 21-10-2015 03:26PM

Knex. wrote: »

As a 3-4 DL, Cox is second to Watt, for me.

Mo Wilkerson for me, seriously underrated!

Here's pff interior d rankings so far this season

Billy86 · 21-10-2015 03:31PM

Good to see Mike Daniels continue to keep around the top 10 there; he's not one of the best-of-the-best-of-the-best but he's not that far off. A criminally underrated player, at least in my experience since more often than not it seems people have not even heard of him beyond maybe being vaguely familiar with his name. Also a pleasant surprise to see Datone Jones in there, over the spring there was some talk circulating about him being cut after a hugely underwhelming first few years.

phatkev · 21-10-2015 03:37PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Good to see Mike Daniels continue to keep around the top 10 there; he's not one of the best-of-the-best-of-the-best but he's not that far off. A criminally underrated player

He's a beast! I love watching him play, the guy never stops

JCTO · 21-10-2015 03:38PM

kennyb3 wrote: »

Yeah badly very put by me. I mean as the premier DE rusher in a 3-4, you're likely going to get double teamed on passing downs (or tripled if your Watt, cox et al.)

My point being most of the premier OLB or DE's are going to find themselves double teamed on passing downs - it's not unique to Cox.

It again depends on the Offensive line and their blocking scheme. Some tackles are good enough to pick up the block on the ends. If the end is destroying the tackle then the oline could shift their blocking scheme to slide the protection thus giving extra help but

It also really depends on what technique the end is in also. A traditional 3-4 the end is generally over the tackle in a 5 technique or over the shades 4 and 6 technique. The Edge rushers OLB are generally in a 7,8,9 technique depending if there is a man over them.

As the game grows a lot of 3-4 defense have man mountains as the Nose and two ends and then speedy big end rushers coming of the edge. Double teams do happen on the bigger guys from time to time but not always.

Old article but Pro Football Focus break it down nicely:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/08/12/defensive-line-techniques-the-prototypes/

kennyb3 · 21-10-2015 03:39PM

Daniels has been brilliant this year.I think what's helping Jones numbers above is being in a rotation (coming in fresh).

Malik Jackson looks like a rising star.

Fair play to the rookie Henry Anderson - really shows up against the run when watching the Colts.

21-10-2015 03:58PM

kennyb3 wrote: »

He's an excellent player but I think you've your Eagles hat on here
won't argue with that at all he's the best player on the team i follow and i watch him a hell of a lot more than the likes of wilkerson/richardson/atkins so i wouldn't dare say he's 100% the best (i don't think i did if so i didn't mean to) but i personally (and i do feel like i can be impartial most of the time) think he's very possibly d-lineman no 3 in this league at the moment
- 3 of his 5 sacks and 2 of his 3 FF were against an awful NO line.
its hard to judge a 3-4 two gapping lineman solely on sacks he gets a lot of pressures but thats not his job his job is to suck in defenders stop the run and opens up a lot of holes for others (we run a lot of shunt plays where he drags the guard and tackle out and leaves a gap for an olb coming in) and teams have had no success running at him
Has the Eagles front 7 really been one of the best in the league? The defensive stats are average enough and that's even with very good safety play.
hard to look at the eagles defence with most stats because they lead the league considerably in snaps played so they will naturally concede more yards. on the link for example it shows that they are 4th in the league in yards per play impressive even before you take into account how tired they must be come the end of a game. also the safetys and corners are not great on this team (outside of malcom jenkins who is a good player) the defence is very much built from the front 7 out
They've hardly played superpowers in the like of the Jets, Redskins, NO and the Giants either.
your right outside of the falcons we have not played a great offense (bar the falcons but julio did burn us that was more on the secondary) but it goes right back to last year considering the amount of snaps they played they where a very good front 7 the secondary was just terrible last year look how cary williams and bradley fletcher are doing now despite having gone into great situations. they've actually gotten far far better this year despite missing kiko alonso and michael kendrick for significant time

When I think of front 7's I'd rather have I come up straight away with the Rams, Broncos, Cardinals, Jets and Seattle straight away.
of coarse they will because they statistically are better and you will notice that all of those teams have better secondarys. it always takes people on d a bit of time to get credit people laughed at sherman because they didn't think he was close to revis. and people didn't give that seahawks secondary real credit until the playoffs when they won there Super Bowl. and that was an all time great defence.
Through weeks 1 to 5

kennyb3 wrote: »

I agree I think he's there or there abouts (with the likes of wilkerson). But that's a much much narrower field and not what Clementine Scary String's original post said at all.

i think i phrased it poorly i meant d-linemen not defensive players I'm not a fan of comparing for example cornerbacks to nose tackles there jobs are so different its hard to compare

kennyb3 wrote: »

Yeah badly very put by me. I mean as the premier DE rusher in a 3-4, you're likely going to get double teamed on passing downs (or tripled if your Watt, cox et al.)

My point being most of the premier OLB or DE's are going to find themselves double teamed on passing downs - it's not unique to Cox.

it depends as he's not a pure pass rusher they wouldn't normally but because he's so dangerous they do double team him but triple (or quadrouple as above

) is not so common it really should be impossible to get any pressure like that

Son Of A Vidic · 21-10-2015 04:05PM

Some good new for Daniel Fells, he was released from hospital yesterday and thankfully the MRSA infection didn't lead to a foot amputation.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000561902/article/giants-daniel-fells-mrsa-released-from-hospital

Morte · 21-10-2015 10:59PM

mcgratheoin wrote: »

Meh - have a read of this article about players trying to get signed and putting themselves in poor positions chasing their dreams. Unless they're going to get paid I really don't see an upside to this for players - if a team wants you this week then they'll still want you next week.

I was thinking of that article too, it really shows how desperate players are to get on a roster. If you're not on one your chances of playing again must be bleak. You're just one of a bunch of guys deemed not as good as all the players who did make a roster and by next year there'll be a whole crop of college graduates to compete with as well. Doing stuff like this helps to keep their name in the frame. Sure there's very little chance of anything happening at the moment but you never know what might happen down the line. The team might have an injury crisis or they might need a body or two for next year's training camp. Or if that team doesn't then a team that does might get recommended your name if they ask around. Or so they tell themselves anyway.

21-10-2015 11:05PM

its sometimes harsh though like james casey is a really good player he just plays a position that is no longer coveted there are guys out there not playing on nfl teams right now that could make a difference for those teams

BizzyC · 22-10-2015 09:41AM

JCTO wrote: »

Old article but Pro Football Focus break it down nicely:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/08/12/defensive-line-techniques-the-prototypes/

Your comments didn't make sense to me, reading Sam's article it does now...
Every system I've seen, the even tech is head up on the man, odd number is outside shade and an inside shade would be an "i" tech.

So in this case on a 3-4 front, your DE would play between a 3 and a 5 tech, and the NT would stay inside the 2 techs.

JCTO · 22-10-2015 01:08PM

BizzyC wrote: »

Your comments didn't make sense to me, reading Sam's article it does now...
Every system I've seen, the even tech is head up on the man, odd number is outside shade and an inside shade would be an "i" tech.

So in this case on a 3-4 front, your DE would play between a 3 and a 5 tech, and the NT would stay inside the 2 techs.

I would agree but I have seen and used both variants in my time. The odd even technique as you laid out is what I used when I last coached and also what my buddies here use now also. I found Sam's article detailing them easier to point out and know coaches who find it easier to do it that way. Both systems are valid depending on who you ask really.

Its funny when I first had to learn defense all them years ago it baffled me how many variations that all have the basic similarities but small differences. Even if you just google it you will see so many variations of it which never made it easy for someone learning from scratch. Different coaches with different ideas I guess. I went to a linemen clinic in NY once and one of the discussions was 3-4 4-3 techniques and it was interesting to see how coaches differ.

Paully D · 22-10-2015 04:01PM

Good read this from Ted Sundquist, former Broncos GM:

Why I Drafted Jay Cutler, And What Happened From There.

Realt Dearg Sec · 22-10-2015 04:44PM

Paully D wrote: »

Good read this from Ted Sundquist, former Broncos GM:

Why I Drafted Jay Cutler, And What Happened From There.

That's an interesting read alright. The stuff about the draft was especially interesting but it sounded like it wasn't entirely clear who was in charge of their draft room. And for sure, it doesn't sound like Sundquist himself was in charge of very much at all. But his reading of Cutler's career and development as mismanaged and patchy rings true. I'm a little confused by some of it though; he seems to say within the space of a few sentences, several times, that Cutler was both extremely confident, and lacking in confidence. There again, watching how he improvises, the brilliance and the stupidity, it might actually sum him up perfectly.

Never a dull day watching Jay.

Hulk Hands · 22-10-2015 06:09PM

Pats official Twitter put up a picture of the buttfumble earlier with reference to this weekend. Thought it was one of those fanpages run by 12 year olds when I seen it retweeted first. Taken down now with some marketing intern getting his marching orders id say

phatkev · 22-10-2015 06:23PM

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Pats official Twitter put up a picture of the buttfumble earlier with reference to this weekend. Thought it was one of those fanpages run by 12 year olds when I seen it retweeted first. Taken down now with some marketing intern getting his marching orders id say

saw that, idiot! Brady's TBT is so much better
https://www.facebook.com/TomBrady/photos/a.655314961176324.1073741825.214003275307497/1002734046434412/?type=3&theater

Realt Dearg Sec · 22-10-2015 06:23PM

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Pats official Twitter put up a picture of the buttfumble earlier with reference to this weekend. Thought it was one of those fanpages run by 12 year olds when I seen it retweeted first. Taken down now with some marketing intern getting his marching orders id say

That's one way of meeting Bill Belichick anyway, though something tells me he's not a man you want to find yourself answering to for your own stupidity.

belichick%2Blets%2Bparty%2Bmeme.PNG

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 23-10-2015 01:22PM

Quite a spanking the 49ers took again last night. Seahawks have serious problems themselves cant see them as serious contenders at the moment but the 49ers are looking at a 3rd or 4th pick in the draft the way things are going.

23-10-2015 02:23PM

this was just up on redit reside jones was drafted the same year as cam chancellor look at there stats

Reshad Jones
420 tackles
6.5 sacks
11 interceptions
29 passes defended

Kam Chancellor
427 tackles
2 sacks
9 interceptions
31 passes defended

Knex* · 23-10-2015 02:24PM

Think they also had the breakdown of their contracts, with Jones proving to be slightly better. He got more guaranteed money anyway.

Hazys · 26-10-2015 01:46PM

Greg Hardy such a good character guy: https://vine.co/v/eYarOPnDHYe

No surprise Jerry Jones and Jason Garrett were making excuses for their clubhouse leader after the game.

“He’s, of course, one of the real leaders on this team and he earns it and he earns it with respect from all of his teammates and that’s the kind of thing that inspires a football team,” Jones said.

Realt Dearg Sec · 26-10-2015 02:24PM

Hazys wrote: »

Greg Hardy such a good character guy: https://vine.co/v/eYarOPnDHYe

No surprise Jerry Jones and Jason Garrett were making excuses for their clubhouse leader after the game.

Is there any sense in which he isn't a poisonous asshole?

Son Of A Vidic · 26-10-2015 03:08PM

Hardy's one príck I'd love to see fúcked out of the league. Imo, you don't lay a hand on any coach and if you do, you crossed the line and should receive the severest of punishments from the team. Not surprised to see Jerry The Clown Jones brushing it under the carpet though. But I suppose on a positive note, at least this time Hardy wasn't lashing out a woman like he's fond of doing.

padraig_f · 26-10-2015 06:51PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsB7UQ8BlE0

Oat23 · 26-10-2015 09:52PM

Paully D wrote: »

Good read this from Ted Sundquist, former Broncos GM:

Why I Drafted Jay Cutler, And What Happened From There.

This part killed me. Gold.

Shortly after Josh McDaniels moved into his office at Dove Valley, he called in Cutler and his agent, Bus Cook, for a closed-door meeting. The story goes that McDaniels began with a 20-minute dissertation of his resume, how he'd worked his way up the ranks in New England to become Bill Belichick's right-hand man with the offense and how the team would have been nowhere the year before without his tutelage of backup Matt Cassel. He continued on with justification of his hiring by Bowlen.
After the perplexing recitation of accomplishments, McDaniels suddenly shifted gears.
He began to bash and berate Cutler and his game to the tune of a verbal flogging neither had ever witnessed. The expletive-laden diatribe went on for a few minutes, after which Cook stood up and told Cutler they were leaving. As they walked down the long hallway past Bowlen's office, Cutler turned to Bus and said, "Get me out of here. I don't care how you do it."

paulie21 · 26-10-2015 09:57PM

Lions clearing house

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13979338/detroit-lions-fire-offensive-coordinator-joe-lombardi-two-ol-coaches

27-10-2015 11:16AM

so at what stage do people realise bateing brady does not work

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2582933-dolphins-backup-lb-crushes-tom-bradys-head-in-twitter-avatar-doesnt-back-down

The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V2

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