Billy Walsh quits ** SEE MOD WARNING #643 BEFORE POSTING

walshb · 22-10-2015 06:59AM

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

All NGBs don't "deserve" a thing. They all have to fight their own corner for funding from the ISC.

Any organisation with governance issues most definitely should be bottom of the list in terms of funding , if even on the list in the first place.

So, in your opinion did the IABA meet the criteria for deserving, or being rightfully given monies in the past? Simple yes or no. Has you view of them not deserving monies always been your view?

Ctrl Alt Delete · 22-10-2015 07:26AM

walshb wrote: »

So, in your opinion did the IABA meet the criteria for deserving, or being rightfully given monies in the past? Simple yes or no. Has you view of them not deserving monies always been your view?

I think I gave a fair concise answer previous

walshb · 22-10-2015 08:06AM

Well, Billy's enroute to the U.S. as we speak. IABA likely to issue a more detailed statement later today, and allegedly they are to come out fighting, pardon the pun.

gordongekko · 22-10-2015 08:07AM

walshb wrote: »

Well, Billy's enroute to the U.S. as we speak. IABA likely to issue a more detailed statement later today, and allegedly they are to come out fighting, pardon the pun.

What's keeping them?

walshb · 22-10-2015 08:09AM

gordongekko wrote: »

What's keeping them?

Who knows. Anyway, not long to wait now. It will hopefully allow us to make a more informed judgment on this saga.

efb · 22-10-2015 08:09AM

walshb wrote: »

Well, Billy's enroute to the U.S. as we speak. IABA likely to issue a more detailed statement later today, and allegedly they are to come out fighting, pardon the pun.

Took their sweet time, awaiting their explanation with baited breath

Joe_ Public · 22-10-2015 08:59AM

efb wrote: »

Took their sweet time, awaiting their explanation with baited breath

Well, they've had, what is it, 3-4 days since all this broke to get their case together and recover the ground they've ceded to the other parties in the dispute. I wouldn't be optimistic for them, though, they've always been pretty hopeless at PR. Then again they could always surprise us this one time!

dRNk SAnTA · 22-10-2015 11:03AM

It doesn't matter what they say - they're a publicly funded body, not some part-time volunteer club.

When you receive that level of public funding - there is a minimum level of transparency and good governance required.

Whatever the petty reasons - they've just lost the main coach 9 months before the Olympics. This should never have happened, and we certainly shouldn't be waiting 4 days for a statement. Do you think this would happen in the UK?

Time to drag these dinosaurs in to the 21st century. New faces and a new structure before too long, I'd say.

walshb · 22-10-2015 11:18AM

dRNk SAnTA wrote: »

When you receive that level of public funding - there is a minimum level of transparency and good governance required.

This is just it. People rushing to judgment. Where has it been officially stated and shown that the IABA are failing as regards governance and transparency?

So far, one freakling man has left the HP team because he was not happy, and because in his view he was being treated unfailry. One side's view is somewhat out there. The other side should present some information shortly. But, for many here from day 1 of this breaking they jumped straight in with both feet with these claims like above.

If it is shown that the IABA are failing and breaking rules and guidelines as regards governanace and transparency then that is fair enough, but for chrissake at least allow due process here.

If they are so incapable and so not goverened properly and so not transparent, then what the hell does that say of the ISC who have been funding them? Who signed off on funding such an incompetent and underhanded organisation with taxpayers money?

Joe_ Public · 22-10-2015 11:46AM

walshb wrote: »

This is just it. People rushing to judgment. Where has it been officially stated and shown that the IABA are failing as regards governance and transparency?

So far, one freakling man has left the HP team because he was not happy, and because in his view he was being treated unfailry. One side's view is somewhat out there. The other side should present some information shortly. But, for many here from day 1 of this breaking they jumped straight in with both feet with these claims like above.

If it is shown that the IABA are failing and breaking rules and guidelines as regards governanace and transparency then that is fair enough, but for chrissake at least allow due process here.

If they are so incapable and so not goverened properly and so not transparent, then what the hell does that say of the ISC who have been funding them? Who signed off on funding such an incompetent and underhanded organisation with taxpayers money?

Yes there is a due process, that is fair enough, but in going to ground and refusing to engage while crisis erupts around them, the IABA hasn't helped its own cause here. They exude a sense of arrogance and defiance, as if smitten that anyone should dare question them and retreat to their bunkers to do whatever it is they do. In the absence of information, people are always going to draw conclusions. That's just human nature and the IABA have to be smart enough to know that. I certainly wouldn't be portraying them as victims in all of this.

walshb · 22-10-2015 11:49AM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Yes there is a due process, that is fair enough, but in going to ground and refusing to engage while crisis erupts around them, the IABA hasn't helped its own cause here. They exude a sense of arrogance and defiance, as if smitten that anyone should dare question them and retreat to their bunkers to do whatever it is they do. In the absence of information, people are always going to draw conclusions. That's just human nature and the IABA have to be smart enough to know that. I certainly wouldn't be portraying them as victims in all of this.

Yes, but people drew conclusions a little bit too early. That is fair enough, but the OTT conclusions that were so very anti IABA is what I find wrong.

Anyway, what about my point regarding the ICS funding them? If they are, or were incapable and not transparent etc, why did they get funding in the first place? Surely they had to qualify.......?

Joe_ Public · 22-10-2015 11:59AM

walshb wrote: »

Yes, but people drew conclusions a little bit too early. That is fair enough, but the OTT conclusions that were so very anti IABA is what I find wrong.

Anyway, what about my point regarding the ICS funding them? If they are, or were incapable and not transparent etc, why did they get funding in the first place? Surely they had to qualify.......?

The reality on funding is the ISC has limited powers to interfere in the daily life of any NGB, regardless of what the articles of its constitution says. All NGBs get funded and some of them fritter it away, like lots of government agencies outside of sport. You try to hold them accountable, but won't always work out. And I've given my view on this several times: the ISC is a political, strategic body. It has been in ongoing conflict with the IABA for many years, going back to the beginning of HP - same as with Athletics Ireland back in the day - and has to plot carefully and pick when it's going to go into battle. Now is that time - it's a virtual slam dunk for Treacy because the minister and half of Ireland is on side. I'm not portraying that as an entirely wholesome process, it's political and dirty and it's the reality.

Clearlier · 22-10-2015 12:08PM

walshb wrote: »

This is just it. People rushing to judgment. Where has it been officially stated and shown that the IABA are failing as regards governance and transparency?

<snip>

If it is shown that the IABA are failing and breaking rules and guidelines as regards governanace and transparency then that is fair enough, but for chrissake at least allow due process here.

If they are so incapable and so not goverened properly and so not transparent, then what the hell does that say of the ISC who have been funding them? Who signed off on funding such an incompetent and underhanded organisation with taxpayers money?

The ISC is saying that the IABA is breaking rules and guidelines as regards governance and transparency. It's their job to make that assessment. Mulvey made clear that they have been working with the IABA to improve for some time and that this incident is the final straw.

The two sides are Billy Walsh and the IABA. The ISC is adjudicator with better knowledge of what's gone on than any of us and they are coming down very heavily on the side of Billy Walsh.

walshb · 22-10-2015 12:24PM

Clearlier wrote: »

The ISC is saying that the IABA is breaking rules and guidelines as regards governance and transparency. It's their job to make that assessment. Mulvey made clear that they have been working with the IABA to improve for some time and that this incident is the final straw.
.

So why are they being funded? Or have they only been breaking these rules since Billy began having issues?

Joe_ Public · 22-10-2015 12:38PM

walshb wrote: »

So why are they being funded? Or have they only been breaking these rules since Billy began having issues?

Depends on far you want to go back. When was the Dominic O'Rourke situation? 2009 or 2010 I think. That was a fairly clear breach of governance guidelines and the IABA only backed down when, like now, its funding lifeline was threatened.

walshb · 22-10-2015 12:49PM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Depends on far you want to go back. When was the Dominic O'Rourke situation? 2009 or 2010 I think. That was a fairly clear breach of governance guidelines and the IABA only backed down when, like now, its funding lifeline was threatened.

Well, it appears that even if it does back down to the ISC that the ISC won't get what they really want. Billy reinstated. I don't think he can go back now. It has gone too far. He's touching down in the U.S. shortly.

Joe_ Public · 22-10-2015 12:55PM

walshb wrote: »

Well, it appears that even if it does back down to the ISC that the ISC won't get what they really want. Billy reinstated. I don't think he can go back now. It has gone too far. He's touching down in the U.S. shortly.

May well be the case. But even if he does come back, what's sorted? Does everybody just shake hands, then go back to their jobs still hating each other, just waiting for the next war to break out? Maybe they'll limp on to Rio, Billy will go and they'll get a replacement who's more on board with IABA wishes. I think that was obviously their target all along, as Egan alluded to in the paper yesterday.

gordongekko · 22-10-2015 01:12PM

walshb wrote: »

This is just it. People rushing to judgment. Where has it been officially stated and shown that the IABA are failing as regards governance and transparency?

So far, one freakling man has left the HP team because he was not happy, and because in his view he was being treated unfailry. One side's view is somewhat out there. The other side should present some information shortly. But, for many here from day 1 of this breaking they jumped straight in with both feet with these claims like above.

If it is shown that the IABA are failing and breaking rules and guidelines as regards governanace and transparency then that is fair enough, but for chrissake at least allow due process here.

If they are so incapable and so not goverened properly and so not transparent, then what the hell does that say of the ISC who have been funding them? Who signed off on funding such an incompetent and underhanded organisation with taxpayers money?

“When interviewed the [IABA]CEO acknowledged the issues faced in respect of the match between the governance of the sport and its present fitness for purpose to host what is, in effect, the country’s leading performance programme.”

gordongekko · 22-10-2015 01:15PM

walshb wrote: »

Yes, but people drew conclusions a little bit too early. That is fair enough, but the OTT conclusions that were so very anti IABA is what I find wrong.

Anyway, what about my point regarding the ICS funding them? If they are, or were incapable and not transparent etc, why did they get funding in the first place? Surely they had to qualify.......?

Yesterday you claimed they were bullying the iaba by threatening to withdraw funding now they should not have been getting funding............

walshb · 22-10-2015 01:24PM

gordongekko wrote: »

Yesterday you claimed they were bullying the iaba by threatening to withdraw funding now they should not have been getting funding............

No, read my words and the use of a ?. The word 'if' is a very imprtant word, as is the use of a question mark.

Clearlier · 22-10-2015 01:33PM

walshb wrote: »

So why are they being funded? Or have they only been breaking these rules since Billy began having issues?

The bit of my post that you quoted answers that but (given that my user name is intended to be ironic):

The ISC has a duty to ensure that governance within the sporting bodies that they allocate funding to is at an appropriate level. It seems that they have had concerns about the IABA for some time and have been working with them to resolve these issues. The incident with Billy Walsh is telling them that they're getting nowhere or perhaps that the governance issues are worse than they realised.

I think that it's a good thing that the ISC try to positively influence governance of sporting bodies rather than just going nuclear in respect of funding.

walshb wrote: »

Well, it appears that even if it does back down to the ISC that the ISC won't get what they really want. Billy reinstated. I don't think he can go back now. It has gone too far. He's touching down in the U.S. shortly.

The issue is not that they want Billy back but that they want better governance put in place to prevent this kind of thing ever happening again. I don't believe that they would be happy with a simple apology from the IABA to Walsh and an offer of the contract previously agreed. They'll want evidence of changes to ensure that this kind of thing doesn't happen again.

walshb · 22-10-2015 01:41PM

Clearlier wrote: »

The issue is not that they want Billy back but that they want better governance put in place to prevent this kind of thing ever happening again. I don't believe that they would be happy with a simple apology from the IABA to Walsh and an offer of the contract previously agreed. They'll want evidence of changes to ensure that this kind of thing doesn't happen again.

Well, that remains to be seen. Maybe they really do want Billy back.

As to this type of thing happening again?

What if Billy's successor has real success, and he/she then gets into a spot of bother with the IABA, is it again a case of the IABA are at fault?

Something tells me that this is as much about personalities-success as it is about governance and trasparency. The ISC were, and are happy to fund the IABA. Loads of medals means all is dandy. Then one man, who is a very important man in terms of position suddenly has an issue, and the ISC are stepping in claiming it's all down to the IABA and its governance-transparency, and its "gross disrespect."

If the IABA are as bad as what's being made out here, and as bad as what Mulvey and the ISC are saying it is, then they deserve to be sacked for funding it, and for allowing it to go on. Reading about it and hearing stories about it, it seems that this alleged ineptitude has been going on for years now.

Clearlier · 22-10-2015 02:06PM

walshb wrote: »

Well, that remains to be seen. Maybe they really do want Billy back.

As to this type of thing happening again?

What if Billy's successor has real success, and he/she then gets into a spot of bother with the IABA, is it again a case of the IABA are at fault?

I do believe that you read my post but this doesn't suggest that you understood it. I think that I may have run out of ideas on how to explain it's role in a more easily understood fashion.

walshb wrote: »

Something tells me that this is as much about personalities-success as it is about governance and trasparency. The ISC were, and are happy to fund the IABA. Loads of medals means all is dandy. Then one man, who is a very important man in terms of position suddenly has an issue, and the ISC are stepping in claiming it's all down to the IABA and its governance-transparency, and its "gross disrespect."

I agree that the clash between Billy Walsh and the IABA is quite possibly about personalities which is why you want good processes and procedures in place to prevent a personality clash from getting in the way of good decisions. That said, the fact that the ISC who make decisions on funding (and thus would be a body you would expect the IABA to want to have good relations with) also find it difficult to work with the IABA suggests that it might be less a personality clash and more person(s) who is/are impossible to work with within the IABA.

walshb wrote: »

If the IABA are as bad as what's being made out here, and as bad as what Mulvey and the ISC are saying it is, then they deserve to be sacked for funding it, and for allowing it to go on. Reading about it and hearing stories about it, it seems that this alleged ineptitude has been going on for years now.

Be careful with that cake, if you keep eating it while still having it...

Funnily enough the situation is a bit more nuanced than this. Also funnily enough the first section of my last post describes that nuance in as clear a fashion as I think I can manage:

Clearlier wrote: »

The ISC has a duty to ensure that governance within the sporting bodies that they allocate funding to is at an appropriate level. It seems that they have had concerns about the IABA for some time and have been working with them to resolve these issues. The incident with Billy Walsh is telling them that they're getting nowhere or perhaps that the governance issues are worse than they realised.

I think that it's a good thing that the ISC try to positively influence governance of sporting bodies rather than just going nuclear in respect of funding.

gordongekko · 22-10-2015 02:08PM

walshb wrote: »

Well, that remains to be seen. Maybe they really do want Billy back.

As to this type of thing happening again?

What if Billy's successor has real success, and he/she then gets into a spot of bother with the IABA, is it again a case of the IABA are at fault?

Something tells me that this is as much about personalities-success as it is about governance and trasparency. The ISC were, and are happy to fund the IABA. Loads of medals means all is dandy. Then one man, who is a very important man in terms of position suddenly has an issue, and the ISC are stepping in claiming it's all down to the IABA and its governance-transparency, and its "gross disrespect."

If the IABA are as bad as what's being made out here, and as bad as what Mulvey and the ISC are saying it is, then they deserve to be sacked for funding it, and for allowing it to go on. Reading about it and hearing stories about it, it seems that this alleged ineptitude has been going on for years now.

So sack the isc and leave the iaba alone?

walshb · 22-10-2015 02:15PM

gordongekko wrote: »

So sack the isc and leave the iaba alone?

The way it's going sack the lot of them and let Billy run it as he sees fit.

gordongekko · 22-10-2015 02:31PM

walshb wrote: »

The way it's going sack the lot of them and let Billy run it as he sees fit.

Billy has a job, so sack the isc and leave the iaba alone??

Joe_ Public · 22-10-2015 02:32PM

As a point of reference was just doodling around on the USA Boxing website earlier, kind of leaves the IABA one in the shade a little bit. They even publish the minutes of executive board meetings on it. Can't see Joe Christle following up on that anytime soon. Anyway, in the published job description for a HP director, absolute autonomy over all matters pertaining to the team is implied. As it is I'm sure in GB and most of the other rival associations. Maybe in Eastern Europe they do things differently, but around these parts, Ireland is a bit of an anomaly.

Also had a glance at the HP section on the IABA's website. They must be having a giraffe. Can't even get the names of their own boxers and coaches right on it. It's the small details that tell a lot, or so they say.

walshb · 22-10-2015 02:43PM

gordongekko wrote: »

Billy has a job, so sack the isc and leave the iaba alone??

What answer will make you happy?

You have now asked that twice.

walshb · 22-10-2015 02:46PM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Also had a glance at the HP section on the IABA's website. They must be having a giraffe. Can't even get the names of their own boxers and coaches right on it. It's the small details that tell a lot, or so they say.

Very true

Similar to Michael Ring, a minister, referring to Billy Walsh as Billy Welsh!

Joe_ Public · 22-10-2015 02:54PM

walshb wrote: »

Very true

Similar to Michael Ring, a minister, referring to Billy Walsh as Billy Welsh!

Well, I'd be more alarmed by the inability to put a decent website in place - we're talking about a recently revamped one here - but take the point. I use to wind up some Kilkenny friends by referring to their star wing-back as Tommy Welch, never failed to drive them nuts.

Billy Walsh quits ** SEE MOD WARNING #643 BEFORE POSTING

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