Residents object to temporary halting site

Datallus wrote: »

Of course you can, numbskull! If you declare yourself to be a fish, it is demonstrably untrue.

Same thing as what you're saying!

what am i saying. in the post you originally replied to i stated i'm not a traveler. as its the case that i'm not a traveler then i'm right. thats that

anewme wrote: »

I'm totally lost now.

Is this the same group or not?

End of the road says there's no issues but other people do.

is it the same site and people?

It is, my point is that there are many in this thread who defended the residents before knowing about the specifics just because "who would want travellers [note: not *these* particular travellers, just travellers in general] living next to them".

That's a generalising and profiling which has no place in a civilised society. None whatsoever.

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh dear.

You're getting annoyed.

Yeah, let's stick to the facts. People blocked access to land they don't own. Now, you knowing that the access is for bad people is laughably inane, because the law of private property is not actually trumped by whether the people who may occupy the land are deemed good or bad on the www. Of course they need not be happy with it, I wouldn't be happy if a football stadium or a mosque or a MacDonalds went up next to me...but once it was legal all I can do is cry into my cornflakes, and if I blocked bulldozers I'd actually expect to get a thump from a Garda baton.

Of course, if you were on a protest against IW, for example, and blocked the public highway, and prevented workmen or women from access to their lawful place of employment, you could expect an early morning call from severel burly Gardaí, and, as you say, you may be nursing tour head having got a skelp from a baton.

Of course, OTOH, if you are a farmer protesting in Kildare St. or down at a creamery entrance, blocking access, or driving in a convoy of tractors blocking the public highway, or a resident in Rockfield Drive, you might just get away with it.......

On valuations, I'd just ask if a former Banker, who was in charge of one of the busted private bailed out Irish Banks, wanted to move in, or his buddy the bondholder, whom we paid handsomely, regardless of the status of his investment, wanted to move in, would anyone protest?

And, we know these people have been responsible for the biggest ever loss of house value in the history of Europe......

and no-one would object, with their nice shiny Jags, Bentleys, Mercs, etc, etc paid for the grateful Irish Citizenry, no one would say a word, except....

fair play to dem......clever boyos.....

Thanks very much Big Fella....

walshyn93 wrote: »

I agree it's a vicious cycle. But not discriminating against them is a good way to get victimised. These residents are acting in their own rational self-interest.

Yeah, house valuations and dislike of travellers in general.

That seem to be it.

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I commend the residents of Rockville. They have opened up a debate at the very least.

Unfortunately it would seem that no media outlet and so called "commentariat" have once said that they agree with the residents of Rockville. Nimbys lecturing the residents and the wider settled community that they are prejudiced and Nimbys themselves!

Seems a bit one sided to me. The residents of Rockville are very brave and are to be commended for wanting to preserve their quality of life in the face of extreme negativity from those who would never have a halting site anywhere near them.

How do you think it's going to work out, this debate.

All Parties are united in their view that the residents are being wrong headed.

I heard Aodháin Ó Riordáin saying that Traveller Ethnicity will be legislated for, as he needs no new law to allow for this.

All Parties, from the SP/PWP/AAA/SF/LP/FF and I think, Fine Gael are in agreement on this.

So, what result do you expect from this debate?

irishpancake wrote: »

Whaty would you do with regard to the Bankers, Bondholders, Politicians who between them ensured that your house valuation halved in the past 5/6 years?

Would you allow them to live near you?

They have had a much bigger effect on the "value" of your property than any halting site could ever have.

Why do you consider your house to be an investment and not a place to live for you, your wife and kids?

The residents of Rockville are entitled to a safe home for them and their families to live in peace.

The residents have made allegations of anti social behaviour. There have been a number of people on here who claim to have experienced it from the people in question.

However, from the indo....

a spokeswoman for the Traveller group refused to comment on claims that residents in the area made about matters of anti-social behaviour.

Then, end of the road stated firstly there was no anti social behaviour but then refused to comment

The point is, the local residents, the councillors, the travellers involved and the Gardai will have details, calls, history etc if there iis a history so it should be possible to confirm or deny the allegations.

If there is a history of anti social behaviour the residents should not accept this family , not because they are travellers but because they are anti social

mucksavage1985 wrote: »

Just imagine living beside a halting site:
1: they seem to be able to make noise anywhere they got go. Hulla hulls hulla boss. Any copper boss. Shouting roaring.
2: they light fires ( burning pvc off copper wires which can cause fires to spread) anyone else would get fined for burning illegally.
3. They litter every where. They don't believe in paying for a bin service. They dump at will anywhere.
4. They can be very bullish and forceful. Poor elderly people are living in fear of them
5. Their relations and friends are probably worse than they are and might as well rob while they visit.
6. They see everything. It comes as a skill because they do f.ck all else
7. If you had cattle in your house they would be easier manage.


I hope that the residents don't back down. I live close to a halting site. Never had problems until it was built. They are unruly animals. I pity anyone that is inflicted with their presence.

Just imagine living beside an Irish family:
1: They seem to be able to make noise anywhere they go. "Story bud", "What's the craic with ya" "Dafuq are you looking at". Shouting roaring.
2:They sleep all day and they drink all night, yet they claim that they are not wasting their time.
3: They spill out of houses at all hours of the morning coked off their heads and vomiting / pissing in the street.
4: They inject themselves with heroin and then wander around all day like zombie, accosting passers-by and threatening them with syringe-stabbage if they don't hand over cash.
5: Their relations and friends are probably worse than they are and might as well shoot up on the street outside and piss against your car while they visit.
6: They see everything. <-- not sure what to do with this one, dafuq are you even getting at here...?
7:If you had cattle in your house they would be easier to manage.

See what I've done there? I've taken a bunch of different Irish stereotypes and thrown them all together in a list of reasons to be racist against Irish people. Doesn't look so good, does it? Want me to do the same with black stereotypes next? Or how about a bit of anti-semitism? I know, I'll do a list of reasons why living next to a woman would be appalling, that'll go down well :rolleyes:

I've said this several times already but I'll say it again: I'm honestly shocked at how normalised this f*cking abhorrent bigotry is as soon as travellers are involved. Replace travellers with any other demographic and you'd be ashamed of yourself for posting it. You are all following the same very basic assumption which lies at the heart of all of this broken logic, and that is "I've heard of travellers who are criminal scum, therefore every single traveller family and every single halting site is full of criminal scum". It's absolutely ridiculous and the fact that people here don't see how stupid they're being coming out with this utter sh!te is frightening.

First they came for.....

garrixfan wrote: »

They are the same people as us

I wasn't implying that they weren't, I was merely trying to illustrate how f*cking moronic a post looks when it judges an entire demographic based on stereotypes.

they are just scrotes.

facepalm.jpg

walshyn93 wrote: »

They're not using those channels because they don't trust them. They're taking the law into their own hands because the law is unable to protect them.

That is an unlawful thing to do.

it's the same as a paramilitary organisation taking upon themselves to enforce what they perceive as "justice", because they do not trust the State or recognise it's laws, which is very often the antithesis of justice.

Would you equally support them?

There's not much difference.

From the times
The residents claims

More pointedly, they claimed the local area had been blighted by antisocial behaviour and sporadic criminality since the temporary halting site on Glenamuck Road was set up eight years ago.
“Speeding, stolen cars, crashed cars, [car] doughnuts out the back of the halting site at night, drinking, dogs, kids on the road, fridges and TVs left on the road,” said one woman in her 30s, who moved there five years ago.
“I’ve been on to the council about this stuff happening every month because of the halting site up the road.”
Another man in his early 40s said the community was simply standing up for itself instead of being bullied by the council.
“They don’t live the same way we do,” he said. “ It’s not a slant on them. It’s just a fact. We like houses, they like mobile homes.
“We like to sleep at night so we can get to work the next day. They like to light bonfires in the middle of the night. It’s the culture – and that’s fine, but in the right place.”
Most of the claims are rejected by local Traveller groups, who say the local site was carefully maintained.
Gardaí declined to comment on the claims, though one garda – who opted not to be named – confirmed they were “acquainted” with the site.

I've said time and time again on here that the residents, the travellers, the local councillors and gardai will be able to prove and or disprove those claims better than any of us.

Is there a racetrack that's used to race cars around? If there is, there will be evidence. If people are complaining about rubbish, anti social behaviour there will be a log of it.

anewme wrote: »

From the times
The residents claims

More pointedly, they claimed the local area had been blighted by antisocial behaviour and sporadic criminality since the temporary halting site on Glenamuck Road was set up eight years ago.
“Speeding, stolen cars, crashed cars, [car] doughnuts out the back of the halting site at night, drinking, dogs, kids on the road, fridges and TVs left on the road,” said one woman in her 30s, who moved there five years ago.
“I’ve been on to the council about this stuff happening every month because of the halting site up the road.”
Another man in his early 40s said the community was simply standing up for itself instead of being bullied by the council.
“They don’t live the same way we do,” he said. “ It’s not a slant on them. It’s just a fact. We like houses, they like mobile homes.
“We like to sleep at night so we can get to work the next day. They like to light bonfires in the middle of the night. It’s the culture – and that’s fine, but in the right place.”
Most of the claims are rejected by local Traveller groups, who say the local site was carefully maintained.
Gardaí declined to comment on the claims, though one garda – who opted not to be named – confirmed they were “acquainted” with the site.

I've said time and time again on here that the residents, the travellers, the local councillors and gardai will be able to prove and or disprove those claims better than any of us.

Is there a racetrack that's used to race cars around? If there is, there will be evidence. If people are complaining about rubbish, anti social behaviour there will be a log of it.

That seems damming stuff. The residents are the group that matters here regarding local information. If traveller groups deny this why don't they get a statement from the guards backing up their claim? That would put an end to the matter occe and for all. It is not in the interest of anybody to be traveller bashing so let Pavee Point go to the guards or local TD to get guards to issue statement saying the travellers there on that site were never any trouble etc etc. Then that's it.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Why should race or religion be treated differently to any other demographic attribute when it comes to profiling, exactly?

Simple: because discriminating against people based on race, religion or gender is illegal in most circumstances e.g. if someone applies for a job. Not so for other reasons, e.g. if an employer bins a CV just because a candidate happens not to have gone to a top university. You might disagree with that, and wish it were not so. But many people would see it differently.

I'm not ok with this kind of profiling either, it's another example of socially acceptable discrimination which makes life difficult for decent people, drives up the cost of living for students, and involves sweeping generalisations.

And many people wouldn’t e.g. landlords who have had their properties destroyed by students, and are sick of hearing complaints from neighbours about parties.

Many would say the same about black people in the United States, but I doubt many of the people justifying discrimination here against travellers (and now students apparently) would say the same if we were talking about black people. And rightly so - judging any individual's character based on how others who happen to share that person's demographic attributes behave is moronic and wrong, end of story.

And of course discriminating against ethnic groups would be wrong. Nothing to disagree with there. Now here’s a news flash for you: travellers are not the blacks of Ireland. Any more so than students. They never have been, unless you consider “people from Achill” to be their own distinct ethnic minority. Again, you might disagree with that, but there is no factual basis for that view point. All you have here is your own opinion and sense of self-righteous indignation to back it up.