Residents object to temporary halting site

icebergiceberg · 18-10-2015 09:18AM

mucksavage1985 wrote: »

Just imagine living beside a halting site:
1: they seem to be able to make noise anywhere they got go. Hulla hulls hulla boss. Any copper boss. Shouting roaring.
2: they light fires ( burning pvc off copper wires which can cause fires to spread) anyone else would get fined for burning illegally.
3. They litter every where. They don't believe in paying for a bin service. They dump at will anywhere.
4. They can be very bullish and forceful. Poor elderly people are living in fear of them
5. Their relations and friends are probably worse than they are and might as well rob while they visit.
6. They see everything. It comes as a skill because they do f.ck all else
7. If you had cattle in your house they would be easier manage.

I hope that the residents don't back down. I live close to a halting site. Never had problems until it was built. They are unruly animals. I pity anyone that is inflicted with their presence.

I would not disagree with most of your points. I don't keep cattle however but can imagine how difficult that would be to manage.
What do you mean by they see everything?
What halting site do you live near?
Could we draw up a list of the halting sites that people are referring to because they seem to take on a mythical number? I don't live beside one. Do people have different views on the same halting sites? That would be strange because most halting sites are must rat infested etc given that people refer to the rubbish strewn around the place.

I listened to the link provided to Pat Kenny show on RTE from Ballymote in Sligo I think it was. I heard the screams and shouting etc. The houses in that estate now going for €25,000. I don't know how I missed that in the news a few year ago. And the Traveller spokeswoman from Sligo, some Maughan woman, saying the residents are leaving the estate because it is beside a graveyard and they are leaving because they are afraid of ghosts! Can you imagine all the laughs that would raise in Pavee Point and the Irish Traveller Movement? They must think we are all a bunch of f.....g idiots. How dare she say that and how can any self respecting Traveller stand by those remarks. She should have been forced to apologise and stand down from whatever position she had.

18-10-2015 10:24AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Oh dear.

You're getting annoyed.

Yeah, let's stick to the facts. People blocked access to land they don't own. Now, you knowing that the access is for bad people is laughably inane, because the law of private property is not actually trumped by whether the people who may occupy the land are deemed good or bad on the www. Of course they need not be happy with it, I wouldn't be happy if a football stadium or a mosque or a MacDonalds went up next to me...but once it was legal all I can do is cry into my cornflakes, and if I blocked bulldozers I'd actually expect to get a thump from a Garda baton.

Ridiculous. You are entitled to object to any of these buildings at the planning stage.
Which there is none of in this case.

pmasterson95 · 18-10-2015 10:31AM

I hope none of these opposing travellers were the same eejits wanting floods of Syrians to move in.

La Fenetre · 18-10-2015 10:37AM

Surely there must be some good people in Ireland, that can get together and offer a halting side beside where they live, that don't mind the high risk of anti-social behavior, lack of peace and quite, and taking the hit on the value of their house ?

Surely someone somewhere must trust a local authority enough to give them the befit of the doubt that they will work hard at properly planning, build, maintain and design a good halting site beside them, and that they will deal effectively with any instances of anti-social behavior ?

There is always a first after all. Surely someone is willing to trust a local authority enough to offer a site beside them ?

Or is this just people preaching that other people should allow a halting site beside them ?

gandalf · 18-10-2015 10:37AM

end of the road I see you weren't willing or able to give me any example of the positives that Traveller Culture brings to general Irish Society. I therefore take it that from your point of view there are no positives.

As for the residents they would be soft in the head to risk their peace of mind, quality of life and investment value in letting in these families.

Here is a small example of the lawlessness that follows the travelling community and until that community makes a concerted effort to deal with the lawlessness that infects it from within general society is of course going to view them with extreme suspicion.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/30-in-irish-traveller-crime-gang-arrested-across-eu-219594.html

More than 30 members of a notorious Irish Traveller crime network have been arrested in eight countries following a massive Europe- wide investigation.

The network, known as the Rathkeale Rovers, also operates across the Americas, Asia and Australia.

Some €9m worth of tax demands have been served on nine key members of the group, which is made up of several Traveller families.

Europol, the EU police agency, described the group as a “highly organised crime group” which was involved in a range of serious crime: counterfeit products, tarmac fraud, robbery, money laundering and drug trafficking.

...

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/irish-traveller-crime-ring-takes-the-spotlight-in-bloomberg-businessweek-report-239026611-239671371.html

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/traveller-gangs-targeting-unsupervised-gaelic-clubs-in-nationwide-crime-spree-26664227.html

Gardai in Meath last week agreed with the views expressed by 'James' that there had been a rise in the number of illegal sites occupied by Travellers in the county in the past two years. One site, bought by Travellers just under two years ago, has three illegal entrances and can also be accessed through shrubbery. The site, with a variety of pre-fabricated houses, caravans and trailers, was raided last year. It had a set of very expensive ornate lanterns in front of the main housing area. These were examined and it was found they had been stolen from a house in Wicklow a short time earlier.

A group believed to consist of young Traveller men has been targeting GAA clubs in the past year, arriving when teams are training, and breaking into cars and the clubhouses as well as stealing vehicles, particularly 4x4s.

....

Last autumn in drawing up payments from Government departments to Traveller groups -- aside from welfare and unemployment benefits -- it was discovered that in 2008 alone, as the country slid into recession, €140m of public money was paid to Traveller groups.

http://www.herald.ie/opinion/traveller-gangs-have-become-a-mafia-the-law-fears-to-tackle-27989028.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/an-irishman-s-diary-1.23247

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/man-injured-at-traveller-wedding-reception-loses-damages-claim-1.2218528

This is just a very small selection of articles after a very brief search of google this morning.

I await your list of Traveller Culture positives with baited breath

end of the road · 18-10-2015 10:42AM

walshyn93 wrote: »

I agree it's a vicious cycle. But not discriminating against them is a good way to get victimised.

dear god. where did you come up with this tripe?

walshyn93 wrote: »

These residents are acting in their own rational self-interest.

and as they are blocking the authorities from using an authority site they should be forcibly removed.

walshyn93 wrote: »

If I change my opinion of travellers, no ones life improves.
If I maintain a rational distrust, I reduce my risk of being the victim of a crime.

you don't. its just another excuse by yourself to continue being the obvious

walshyn93 wrote: »

Your resorting to inflammatory language to make your point is very telling.

its not.

walshyn93 wrote: »

You can tell someone they're a bigot, but you can't very well tell them why they
shouldn't be.

do i really need to tell someone why they shouldn't be a bigot? seriously? your actually being ridiculous if you think one should explain the obvious

end of the road · 18-10-2015 10:47AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

This is absolute nonsense. Criminality and anti social behaviour as well as dumping rubbish is something Travellers have to answer for. Nothing to do with bigotry.

it is very much to do with bigotry when its being used as an excuse to tar everyone from that group with the same brush by those who wouldn't dare to do it to other groups

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Everything to do with reputation.

you continue to tell yourself that, but most see through it.

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Can't cry bigotry in the face of the overwhelming evidence that it is Travellers themselves that have "earned" (for want of a better word) their reputation.

the fact you state "cry bigot" just proves my point and says it all. your not interested in travelers commiting crime at all are you.

Wolf Hanssen wrote: »

Yes, residents blocked access to Council property. Why would you imagine they done that now?

to get themselves in the papers?

digzy · 18-10-2015 10:47AM

Just heard Alex white on Marion finucane there. I wonder if those castigating the residents such as Alan Kelly, joe Duffy etc would maintain their current position if a local authority decided to railroad through a halting site beside where they live.

If we're being honest the vast majority don't wanna see a halting site in close proximity to their homes due to what manifests itself as traveller 'culture'. The minority who would like to see a halting site close to their homes are bluffers or extremely naive.

La Fenetre · 18-10-2015 10:51AM

I'm wondering why residents who don't want to have a halting site beside them should have one, while the residents who think other people should allow halting sites beside them have none ?

Surely they should lead by example and volunteer to have one ?

Hans Bricks · 18-10-2015 10:55AM

end of the road wrote: »

it is very much to do with bigotry when its being used as an excuse to tar everyone from that group with the same brush by those who wouldn't dare to do it to other groups

you continue to tell yourself that, but most see through it.

the fact you state "cry bigot" just proves my point and says it all. your not interested in travelers commiting crime at all are you.

to get themselves in the papers?

What other groups ?

Talk about shifting the goalposts. Bigotry. A tired tactic.

"most see through" you in fact. Considering your desperate apologism in the face of the experiences a lot of posters have stated over the last 10 pages.

end of the road · 18-10-2015 10:58AM

mucksavage1985 wrote: »

1: they seem to be able to make noise anywhere they got go. Hulla hulls hulla boss. Any copper boss. Shouting roaring.

same happens in the settled community

mucksavage1985 wrote: »

2: they light fires ( burning pvc off copper wires which can cause fires to spread) anyone else would get fined for burning illegally.

travelers get fined for burning illegally, and are jailed if they don't pay. no different to the rest of us. plenty of bonfires lit in the settled community at certain parts of the year, or more.

mucksavage1985 wrote: »

3. They litter every where. They don't believe in paying for a bin service. They dump at will anywhere.

like fly tippers from the settled community.

mucksavage1985 wrote: »

4. They can be very bullish and forceful. Poor elderly people are living in fear of them

again, you will find that with a number of individuals from various walks of life

mucksavage1985 wrote: »

6. They see everything. It comes as a skill because they do f.ck all else

like the average busy body so

mucksavage1985 wrote: »

I hope that the residents don't back down.

i hope the residents get a choice of unblock the site or anything possible will be used to move them. they have lost any right to object once they blocked a council site behaving like thugs. we have a system to object to any plans of the council.

mucksavage1985 wrote: »

I live close to a halting site. Never had problems until it was built. They are unruly animals. I pity anyone that is inflicted with their presence.

just a bunch of stuff written with nothing to back it up. i'd say you don't live near one at all but who knows

gandalf · 18-10-2015 10:59AM

I know very little about you end of the road but I am curious as to whether you are a property owner and mortgage holder?

As a property owner and mortgage holder with a wife and a young child I will do everything in my power to protect my home, my families quality of life and well being and to ensure that the biggest investment I have made in my life is maintained by factors within my control.

If that means blocking land that the council want to develop without facing the proper planning mechanisms to house a potential threat to my families quality of life I would do it and I commend the residents of Rockville Drive for standing up to the threat facilitated by their council in effecting their quality of life.

end of the road · 18-10-2015 11:00AM

digzy wrote: »

Just heard Alex white on Marion finucane there. I wonder if those castigating the residents such as Alan Kelly, joe Duffy etc would maintain their current position if a local authority decided to railroad through a halting site beside where they live.

If we're being honest the vast majority don't wanna see a halting site in close proximity to their homes due to what manifests itself as traveller 'culture'. The minority who would like to see a halting site close to their homes are bluffers or extremely naive.

have you any evidence for that claim? you can provide studdies that say such people are bluffers and or naieve? no? thought not

gandalf wrote: »

I know very little about you end of the road but I am curious as to whether you are a property owner and mortgage holder?

As a property owner and mortgage holder with a wife and a young child I will do everything in my power to protect my home, my families quality of life and well being and to ensure that the biggest investment I have made in my life is maintained by factors within my control.

If that means blocking land that the council want to develop without facing the proper planning mechanisms to house a potential threat to my families quality of life I would do it and I commend the residents of Rockville Drive for standing up to the threat facilitated by their council in effecting their quality of life.

thats fine but when the state remove you by force which i hope would happen expect no sympathy. you do not get to block council land, and should you do so full force should be employed

La Fenetre · 18-10-2015 11:02AM

I wonder why people don't trust local authorities ?

I mean the country is flooded with successful, well designed, well run and maintained halting sites, where any anti-social behavior is promptly dealt with by the authorities and the local traveling community, and local property values and the social environment and culture are all enhanced in a win-win.

Ghost Buster · 18-10-2015 11:02AM

end of the road wrote: »

dear god. where did you come up with this tripe?

and as they are blocking the authorities from using an authority site they should be forcibly removed.

you don't. its just another excuse by yourself to continue being the obvious

its not.

do i really need to tell someone why they shouldn't be a bigot? seriously? your actually being ridiculous if you think one should explain the obvious

If I moved into an area and began to lower they quality of life of the existing residents with antisocial behaviour would I be a bigot or an ethnic minority exercising my unique culture?

Roger Hassenforder · 18-10-2015 11:09AM

digzy wrote: »

The minority who would like to see a halting site close to their homes are bluffers or extremely naive.

They're probably the same people living in a leafy middle class suburb, with a probability of getting a halting site in their area of about 0.02.

end of the road · 18-10-2015 11:12AM

gandalf wrote: »

end of the road I see you weren't willing or able to give me any example of the positives that Traveller Culture brings to general Irish Society. I therefore take it that from your point of view there are no positives.

you can take it whatever way you like, but you have nothing to back it up. and its not relevant.

gandalf wrote: »

As for the residents they would be soft in the head to risk their peace of mind, quality of life and investment value in letting in these families.

its council land, they do not get to block it. the councils right to use land trumps the right to have a property continue to be at the same investment value. brute force needs to be employed to move these people on so the land can be used. peace of mind and quality of life are good, but if you block council land rather then useing the proper channels to object to a plan, then you lose any right to have any of those.

gandalf wrote: »

until that community makes a concerted effort to deal with the lawlessness that infects it from within general society is of course going to view them with extreme suspicion.

thats just an excuse by some of wider society to continue their "ways" .

Ghost Buster wrote: »

If I moved into an area and began to lower they quality of life of the existing residents with antisocial behaviour would I be a bigot or an ethnic minority exercising my unique culture?

we have laws to deal with anti-social behaviour

La Fenetre · 18-10-2015 11:12AM

digzy wrote: »

The minority who would like to see a halting site close to their homes are bluffers or extremely naive.

I think that's a little unfair, they should be given the chance to lead by example, demonstate their trust and confidence in their local authorities to do it well, and show everyone how well it works beside them. Having a trendy halting site beside you could be turned into the new fashion trend. There is usually acres of spare space and nice leafy green tree lined plots in such areas.

Perfect for cultural bonfires and artistic stockpiles of cultural artifacts.

gandalf · 18-10-2015 11:14AM

end of the road wrote: »

thats fine but when the state remove you by force which i hope would happen expect no sympathy. you do not get to block council land, and should you do so full force should be employed

Ok I assume as you didn't answer whether you are a property owner that you aren't one.

I also assume from your comments above that you advocate swift and decisive action against illegal traveller settlements when they take possession of land they aren't entitled to by the Gardai with "full force" ?

Also still no positives on Traveller Culture, are there really none you can list?

gandalf · 18-10-2015 11:19AM

end of the road wrote: »

you can take it whatever way you like, but you have nothing to back it up. and its not relevant.

It's extremely relevant. So no positives at all then.

its council land, they do not get to block it. the councils right to use land trumps the right to have a property continue to be at the same investment value. brute force needs to be employed to move these people on so the land can be used. peace of mind and quality of life are good, but if you block council land rather then useing the proper channels to object to a plan, then you lose any right to have any of those.

How can the residents use the proper channels when the council aren't :rolleyes:

thats just an excuse by some of wider society to continue their "ways" .

No that is what the majority are saying because the traveller community is not able to clean up its own act. Seriously why should we give traveller organisations any funds when they don't offer us any positives at all. IMHO it is time to cut all funding to the travellers and to deal with them using the general mechanisms that all residents in Ireland have. Let them have true equality.

we have laws to deal with anti-social behaviour

Which are not being actioned.

end of the road · 18-10-2015 11:20AM

gandalf wrote: »

Ok I assume as you didn't answer whether you are a property owner that you aren't one.

take it whatever way you like, you have nothing to prove it. i certainly wouldn't be giving the answer on here as its nobodies business

gandalf wrote: »

I also assume from your comments above that you advocate swift and decisive action against illegal traveller settlements went they take possession of land they aren't entitled to by the Gardai with "full force" ?

yes, and it happens, so irrelevant

gandalf · 18-10-2015 11:23AM

end of the road wrote: »

irrelevant

Yes most of your argument is alright

Good day.

end of the road · 18-10-2015 11:25AM

gandalf wrote: »

How can the residents use the proper channels when the council aren't

the council are. they are using the emergency accommodation powers they have. its these moaning nimbys who aren't.

gandalf wrote: »

No that is what the majority are saying because the traveller community is not able to clean up its own act.

no its what a few use as excuses to continue their "ideals"

gandalf wrote: »

Seriously why should we give traveller organisations any funds when they don't offer us any positives at all.

its our job to give these organisations funding so they can continue the help they give.

gandalf wrote: »

IMHO it is time to cut all funding to the travellers and to deal with them using the general mechanisms that all residents in Ireland have. Let them have true equality.

travelers do have to use the general systems the rest of us have to use. so they have true equality in that sense. cutting the funding would make things more difficult hence it hasn't happened.

Kenny Logins · 18-10-2015 11:35AM

Irish Times poll shows 72% in support of the residents' protest.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/they-don-t-live-the-same-way-we-do-it-s-just-a-fact-1.2392169

Spanish Eyes · 18-10-2015 11:37AM

I commend the residents of Rockville. They have opened up a debate at the very least.

Unfortunately it would seem that no media outlet and so called "commentariat" have once said that they agree with the residents of Rockville. Nimbys lecturing the residents and the wider settled community that they are prejudiced and Nimbys themselves!

Seems a bit one sided to me. The residents of Rockville are very brave and are to be commended for wanting to preserve their quality of life in the face of extreme negativity from those who would never have a halting site anywhere near them.

La Fenetre · 18-10-2015 11:39AM

Kenny Logins wrote: »

Irish Times poll shows 72% in support of the residents' protest.

Good news. That's means 28% of Irish times readers can be counted on to volunteer to have a halting site beside them, and be trusting of their local authorities to do it well.

gandalf · 18-10-2015 11:46AM

end of the road wrote: »

the council are. they are using the emergency accommodation powers they have. its these moaning nimbys who aren't.

But these people are already being housed using the standard emergency housing mechanism.

The residents are acting like this because they know that once the people set foot on this site they won't be moving out. And based on their experience with "temporary" halting sites it could be years before this one is actually cleared.

no its what a few use as excuses to continue their "ideals"

No it's time for the travelling community to grow up and stop expecting others to resolve THEIR OWN ISSUES!

its our job to give these organisations funding so they can continue the help they give.

Why there is no positives in doing so.

From one of the articles I linked to earlier Travellers organisations got funding of €140 million in 2008. That money would have been better utilised by the Gardai funding the tackling of traveller related crime.

travelers do have to use the general systems the rest of us have to use. so they have true equality in that sense. cutting the funding would make things more difficult hence it hasn't happened.

No they don't, as per this example in Carrickmines they get preferential treatment over everyone else. Not only do they get access to the normal emergency accommodation mechanisms they will get special temporary housing built for them while their new accommodation is being built.

Kenny Logins · 18-10-2015 11:46AM

La Fenetre wrote: »

Good news. That's means 28% of Irish times readers can be counted on to volunteer to have a halting site beside them, and be trusting of their local authorities to do it well.

Can't see it happening TBH. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised at all if some of those opposed to the Rockville residents' protest are secretly worried that the site will be moved closer to them.

Bebopclown · 18-10-2015 12:07PM

If the resident lose and the family do move in, how about the residents record everything and start a blog talking about what's going on. If they aren't doing anything bothersome then they write that but if they are and they have video proof, upload that ****. Any objections to that?

end of the road · 18-10-2015 12:19PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I commend the residents of Rockville. They have opened up a debate at the very least.

Unfortunately it would seem that no media outlet and so called "commentariat" have once said that they agree with the residents of Rockville. Nimbys lecturing the residents and the wider settled community that they are prejudiced and Nimbys themselves!

Seems a bit one sided to me. The residents of Rockville are very brave and are to be commended for wanting to preserve their quality of life in the face of extreme negativity from those who would never have a halting site anywhere near them.

The residents of Rockville are not one bit brave for blocking the council from legally using one of its sites, and they must be reminded of this by our media. their quality of life no longer matters now as they have shown they cannot be trusted to behave and use the proper channels. the council should use whatever powers they have to use this site and refuse to engage with anyone involved in the blockade.

Residents object to temporary halting site

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