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DCM 2015: Mentored Novices Thread
Comments
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Hehe let's do better than a chocolate teapot. Next week, we're going to compile a course overview based on our personal experiences. Why not start now...?!
Post up your extract from your lsr's (denis b, nop, TFGR etc I'm looking at YE
) and we'll cobble them together into a coherent overview.
To make your overview easy to search for, please put 'course overview' in the title (as above).
I've run the course from the Phoenix Park to the finish I think on 4 occasions. I'll try and put together my tuppence ha'pennys worth over the weekend.0 -
I've done bits of the DCM 15 route over the last few months... not enough to be completely authoritative, but I'll share my thoughts!
Miles 0-1: Should be fast because of enthusiasm and wide streets, but no doubt will be full of crowds and general mayhem. Planning on not getting too stressed here...
Miles 1-2: Drag up to High Street is tough enough, but early so no doubt we'll all power through. I guess don't waste too much energy here.
Miles 2-3: Some difficulties here - the downhill on Bridge Street to the quays is pretty steep, followed by a drag up Manor St., and then into a quite narrow Aughrim St., which is all uphill.
Miles 3-4: Should be wide enough on the NCR, but once into the park things get pretty narrow again.
Miles 4-5-6: Slight uphill all the way through Chesterfield Avenue. Good surface and plenty of space, so should be comfortable, though don't waste too much energy here.
Miles: 7-8-9: More uphill to Castleknock, but expecting good support. Generally downhill down to and through the park (nice to be doing that goddamn hill at the end of the 5/10/13.1 races in reverse
)
Miles 10-18: Unknown territory - I've heard about the Crumlin Rd. wind tunnel...
Miles 18-19: Largely downhill through Terenure and Orwell Rd/Park
Miles 19-20: Uphill through Milltown :mad:
Miles 20-21: Kind of up and down but mostly up until...
Miles 21-23: ...more uphill, and then up Mount Roebuck, which is short but sharp. Mild aside, I ran around here in March and went the wrong way after Roebuck into Mount Merrion, which has some even more serious hills. I was really worried about here until I realised that the route goes down Foster Avenue, which is a lovely downhill... :pac:
Miles 23-24: Still more downhill, then a slightly annoying drag up to the UCD flyover. I'm sure at this stage "slightly annoying" will mean "completely head wrecking" but it's the last hill... :rolleyes:
Miles 24-26: Slight downhill on wide enough road, some nice landmarks to pass and straight on through to... :eek:
Miles 26 - 26.2: ...an easy sprint to the finish line, even though it's slightly uphill, to Merrion Square, the gateway to McGrattan's 0 -
Tweaking question DG.....
I am following the David Carrie plan and it has 20 miles listed for this weekend. I want to do 22 as I missed out on the distance attempt last weekend. I am thinking that it wont be an issue unless you can tell me otherwise?? ......Any thoughts?.... PHey P, I'm going to pass this over to FBOT, he's the resident David Carrie expert
The plan has 18/20 miles, P so it already gives you room for tweaking
Joking aside no matter what plan you are on at this stage I would question the merits of pushing the boat out for your longest run only two weeks out. The couple of extra miles will do nothing for your endurance at this point. Now it is all about getting the body rested, recovered, prepped and ready for the big day. I would argue that another week heavily weighed with one big LSR could do more harm than good.
I am actually advising Mrs Mc (who is also following the Dave Carrie Plan) to err on the side of caution at this stage and to do a time on her feet run of no more than 3hrs this weekend rather than the planned 18/20 miles.
And I would be advising you to take the cautious approach too. As I think I have said on this thread a couple of times already playing catch up is a mugs game when it comes to marathon training......IMHO.
Best of luck whichever way you decide to go.:pac::pac:0 -
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Pace band works by giving you each mile/km, and at what time etc., specific to your goal finish time.
So say you look down at mile 3, and it says 31:36, that means you should pass through mile 3 at 31:36 for you to be bang on target. Its a very easy way to tell if you're ahead or behind without having to try to do sums 0 -
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Pace band works by giving you each mile/km, and at what time etc., specific to your goal finish time.
So say you look down at mile 3, and it says 31:36, that means you should pass through mile 3 at 31:36 for you to be bang on target. Its a very easy way to tell if you're ahead or behind without having to try to do sums
Might be overkill but we're always told not to try something new on the race day that you haven't tried on your LSR so are these things easy enough to tear off & dump if they get annoying.
I ask because I might get two (4:30 & 4:40)0 -
Might be overkill but we're always told not to try something new on the race day that you haven't tried on your LSR so are these things easy enough to tear off & dump if they get annoying.
I ask because I might get two (4:30 & 4:40)
you wont even notice them on your wrist, I wore 2 last year, they're really light & comfy 0 -
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Got out for a slow 5 mile run this am. This was my first run since doing the 20m lsr on Sunday. My knee was sore for a few days after that & then family commitments meant I didn't actually get back out till this am. Felt a bit rusty, but no pains or niggles afterwards.
I know the general wisdom on missed training days is "when it's gone, it's gone", so I wanted to check how I should proceed for the next few days. I'm on HHN1, so this week's mileage was supposed to be 5 - 8 - 4 - 12. I've only done the 5 so far. I'm planning to do 8 tomorrow & 12 on Sunday. This way, I've only skipped the 4 mile run. I'd rest on Mon & then continue on as per plan next week.
Is this OK?
That sounds suspiciously like catching up via a sneaky-squashing-them-all-together approach
You're meant to be reaping the benefits of a down week this week after your 20lsr so try 4-5 very easy tomorrow and go for the 12 on Sunday - again at an easy pace and listening all the time to your body for niggles etc. An 8 and 12 back to back would mimic the effects of a lsr and that's not on the plan this week.
You won't have lost anything by the few days rest, the purpose of this week is just to recover after the lsr and to keep the engine ticking over. Your new 5/4-5/12 will do that too.0 -
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That sounds suspiciously like catching up via a sneaky-squashing-them-all-together approach
You're meant to be reaping the benefits of a down week this week after your 20lsr so try 4-5 very easy tomorrow and go for the 12 on Sunday - again at an easy pace and listening all the time to your body for niggles etc. An 8 and 12 back to back would mimic the effects of a lsr and that's not on the plan this week.
You won't have lost anything by the few days rest, the purpose of this week is just to recover after the lsr and to keep the engine ticking over. Your new 5/4-5/12 will do that too.
Cheers DG!!,
I've found myself in this same position, was about to head out the door for 8 miles in a few mins, looks like I'll shorten it to 5 now, and the 12 on Sunday.0 -
That sounds suspiciously like catching up via a sneaky-squashing-them-all-together approach
You're meant to be reaping the benefits of a down week this week after your 20lsr so try 4-5 very easy tomorrow and go for the 12 on Sunday - again at an easy pace and listening all the time to your body for niggles etc. An 8 and 12 back to back would mimic the effects of a lsr and that's not on the plan this week.
You won't have lost anything by the few days rest, the purpose of this week is just to recover after the lsr and to keep the engine ticking over. Your new 5/4-5/12 will do that too.
He he... there's no flies on you! Nothing gets past you. I had a feeling you might suggest something like that. Fair enough - you haven't steered me wrong so far.
I'll do an easy 5 tomorrow & a leisurely 12 on Sunday.0 -
Pace band works by giving you each mile/km, and at what time etc., specific to your goal finish time.
So say you look down at mile 3, and it says 31:36, that means you should pass through mile 3 at 31:36 for you to be bang on target. Its a very easy way to tell if you're ahead or behind without having to try to do sums
A pace band will also give you your 'real' marathon time, rather than your garmin time.
To explain:
Pretty soon into the marathon you'll notice that your watch is beeping the miles (or KMs) well before you hit the mile marker. This is because you will inevitably be weaving around the road a little, overtaking people or going from side to side on the road - and all of this adds distance. So, your watch will have calculated that you've run 5 miles before you get to the 5 mile marker. In actual fact, you'll have run at least 5.05 miles by then.
What's important about this is that, later on, your garmin will show you have finished the 26.2 miles BUT you'll still have from 0.25 to 0.5 miles to go before your each the gantry, depending on how much weaving you've been doing.
So (and this is where it gets really important), let's say you're going for a goal time of sub four hours, you've calculated that means you need to run at an average pace of 9.05 per mile, which will get you home at 3.58.09. Great.
BUT, if you do a marathon like my DCM in 2012 you'll actually cover around 26.5 miles. If you stick to 9.05 pace religiously in this scenario then your finishing time will be 4.00.42.
Ouch
A good way to avoid this is to monitor the cumulative time you've been running (as well as your average pace of course, if you're used to doing that) on your Garmin and use a pace band.
Your pace band will say the following:
Mile 1: 9.05
Mile 2: 18.10
Mile 3: 27.15
Mile 4: 36.20
Mile 5: 45.25
etc.
Ignore the mile beeps from your watch and instead glance down at the 'time passed' on your garmin when you hit a mile marker. In this case when you hit the 5 Mile Marker glance down at your pace band - if the 'time passed' says c. 45.25 then you're on track for your sub four marathon.
Also, try to run the racing line wherever possible. 26.2 miles is long enough, no need to be adding any more distance!
Best of luck everyone.0 -
I think the funny thing about the Dublin Marathon is that all the talk beforehand focuses on 'Heartbreak Hill' and other minor inclines late in the race, when the truth is that the second half is relatively flat compared to the constantly undulating first half.
Here's my take on it:
Mile 1 - This is completely flat. Use this section to get into a nice rhythm and gradually settle into your race pace before you start to encounter any hills.
Miles 2-3 - Some steep ascents & descents in these miles. You climb up from St Patrick's Cathedral to 'High' Street, before almost immediately plunging back down to the quays. This is followed by another more gradual (but steep) climb through Stoneybatter and Aughrim Street up to the NCR. The main thing here is to keep the effort you've dialled in from the first mile consistent. Don't worry about the mile splits. Since you'll be so full of energy and amongst a huge crowd at such an early stage it will be easy to hold PMP going up the inclines, but don't do this as you'll almost certainly pay for it in the second half. Loads of time to get those seconds back later. For once ignore your trusty leader (Sorry Dubgal :pac:) and use your Garmin here to ensure you're not moving too quickly.
Mile 4 - Up the NCR and into the park beside the Garda HQ. Flat enough but may get congested due to the narrow roads around the zoo. Again, don't panic. A few seconds dropped here can be easily reclaimed later on. If you're following pacers, don't worry if you're not on their shoulder. Once you can see them, you can catch them. Don't zig-zag all over the road, wasting energy and covering more ground than necessary trying to make up ground. It will open up like the Red Sea after halfway.
Miles 5-7 - Almost three miles in a straight line up Chesterfield Avenue to Castleknock. Road is significantly wider here which should ease any congestion and allow you to get back into your rhythm. Slight drag all the way up but nothing major.
Miles 8-10 - Turning back out of Castleknock and taking a roundabout route down into Chapelizod through the park. This is all downhill. Keep the effort the same and your splits for these miles should be naturally quicker than before. You should be close to target PMP on your pace band going through the 10 mile point, but being slightly slower is fine. There are fast sections coming up in a few miles.
Miles 11-13 - This is the steepest incline you'll tackle in the entire race. St Laurence's Hill takes you out of Chapelizod up into Ballyfermot. Don't even look at your watch here. Just concentrate on keeping the effort steady & consistent. From there to Rialto you're constantly going slightly up or down. Again, it's the effort that's all important. Don't even worry if you're slightly behind pace through halfway. Dublin is a course that suits a negative split.
Miles 14-15 - A long drag from Dolphins Barn up the Crumlin Road and then on to the Walkinstown Roundabout. Wind is normally against you here, but it was stronger than usual last year and you'd be very unlucky to encounter the same conditions. Effort again is the most important thing in these miles.
Miles 16-20 - Respite - at last! When you turn left off the Walkinstown roundabout, you head down Cromwellsfort Road into Kimmage, and then through Terenure and Rathgar towards Milltown. Almost entirely flat with good support and a good opportunity to make up any lost time. Probably the longest section of the course without any significant inclines/declines.
Miles 21-23 - Coming into Milltown, you drop downhill below the LUAS bridge, before climbing back up into the village itself. There's plenty of winding around bends after that until you eventually come to 'Heartbreak Hill' on Roebuck Road. Don't believe the hype. This is not much of a climb at all and has been totally exaggerated in the last few years. The fact that a big crowd lines the street there cheering and clapping you up to the Lucozade 'Wall Of Support' makes it even easier to scale. Over and done with in no time. Then it's a nice downhill on Fosters Avenue before rising back up a little bit to the N11.
Miles 24-Finish - As soon as you turn left down the N11 you are heading directly for the finish line. I don't know about anyone else, but this gives me a huge boost. Another overplayed 'hill' is the slip-road off the N11 here. If you actually look at it, you barely climb at all. The dual carriageway drops down below the bridge meaning you're barely coming off the flat to get to the top. Once you've done that, it's down the other side onto Nutley Lane and a flat (slightly downhill) run to the finish. The crowds will increase for each yard you travel and it just gets louder and louder. Soak it all in and enjoy it 0 -
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A pace band will also give you your 'real' marathon time, rather than your garmin time.
To explain:
Pretty soon into the marathon you'll notice that your watch is beeping the miles (or KMs) well before you hit the mile marker. This is because you will inevitably be weaving around the road a little, overtaking people or going from side to side on the road - and all of this adds distance. So, your watch will have calculated that you've run 5 miles before you get to the 5 mile marker. In actual fact, you'll have run at least 5.05 miles by then.
What's important about this is that, later on, your garmin will show you have finished the 26.2 miles BUT you'll still have from 0.25 to 0.5 miles to go before your each the gantry, depending on how much weaving you've been doing.
So (and this is where it gets really important), let's say you're going for a goal time of sub four hours, you've calculated that means you need to run at an average pace of 9.05 per mile, which will get you home at 3.58.09. Great.
BUT, if you do a marathon like my DCM in 2012 you'll actually cover around 26.5 miles. If you stick to 9.05 pace religiously in this scenario then your finishing time will be 4.00.42.
Ouch
A good way to avoid this is to monitor the cumulative time you've been running (as well as your average pace of course, if you're used to doing that) on your Garmin and use a pace band.
Your pace band will say the following:
Mile 1: 9.05
Mile 2: 18.10
Mile 3: 27.15
Mile 4: 36.20
Mile 5: 45.25
etc.
Ignore the mile beeps from your watch and instead glance down at the 'time passed' on your garmin when you hit a mile marker. In this case when you hit the 5 Mile Marker glance down at your pace band - if the 'time passed' says c. 45.25 then you're on track for your sub four marathon.
Also, try to run the racing line wherever possible. 26.2 miles is long enough, no need to be adding any more distance!
Best of luck everyone.
Excellent post, I used a pace band in all the half marathons I have run to date and find them very useful for the exact reason above. It's the mile markers on the course you need to check your cumulative time at as opposed to your watch when it beeps. The watch is a handy point of reference for a secondary confirmation on your pace but for a race you can only really trust the stopwatch function!
The last half marathon I did in Dingle, at the 10 mile beep on my watch I was maybe 20 seconds faster than target but passing the 10 mile marker I was one second faster than target.0 -
A pace band will also give you your 'real' marathon time, rather than your garmin time.
To explain:
Pretty soon into the marathon you'll notice that your watch is beeping the miles (or KMs) well before you hit the mile marker. This is because you will inevitably be weaving around the road a little, overtaking people or going from side to side on the road - and all of this adds distance. So, your watch will have calculated that you've run 5 miles before you get to the 5 mile marker. In actual fact, you'll have run at least 5.05 miles by then.
What's important about this is that, later on, your garmin will show you have finished the 26.2 miles BUT you'll still have from 0.25 to 0.5 miles to go before your each the gantry, depending on how much weaving you've been doing.
So (and this is where it gets really important), let's say you're going for a goal time of sub four hours, you've calculated that means you need to run at an average pace of 9.05 per mile, which will get you home at 3.58.09. Great.
BUT, if you do a marathon like my DCM in 2012 you'll actually cover around 26.5 miles. If you stick to 9.05 pace religiously in this scenario then your finishing time will be 4.00.42.
Ouch
A good way to avoid this is to monitor the cumulative time you've been running (as well as your average pace of course, if you're used to doing that) on your Garmin and use a pace band.
Your pace band will say the following:
Mile 1: 9.05
Mile 2: 18.10
Mile 3: 27.15
Mile 4: 36.20
Mile 5: 45.25
etc.
Ignore the mile beeps from your watch and instead glance down at the 'time passed' on your garmin when you hit a mile marker. In this case when you hit the 5 Mile Marker glance down at your pace band - if the 'time passed' says c. 45.25 then you're on track for your sub four marathon.
Also, try to run the racing line wherever possible. 26.2 miles is long enough, no need to be adding any more distance!
Best of luck everyone.
Thank you for this! Makes perfect sense and very useful to know before the day. This happened to me at my Half on August and I was so confused! I wasn't using a pace band that day but it would have come in handy!
I've ordered a free pace band from Asics, which was great because you could choose a slower start over 3, 6 or 9 miles (if I recall correctly). I put in my target time, I think I chose a 6 mile 'warm up' and I can pick up the band at the expo. It helps to have a better understanding of how to use it with the watch! So again, thank you!0 -
I think the funny thing about the Dublin Marathon is that all the talk beforehand focuses on 'Heartbreak Hill' and other minor inclines late in the race, when the truth is that the second half is relatively flat compared to the constantly undulating first half.
Here's my take on it:
Mile 1 - This is completely flat. Use this section to get into a nice rhythm and gradually settle into your race pace before you start to encounter any hills.
Miles 2-3 - Some steep ascents & descents in these miles. You climb up from St Patrick's Cathedral to 'High' Street, before almost immediately plunging back down to the quays. This is followed by another more gradual (but steep) climb through Stoneybatter and Aughrim Street up to the NCR. The main thing here is to keep the effort you've dialled in from the first mile consistent. Don't worry about the mile splits. Since you'll be so full of energy and amongst a huge crowd at such an early stage it will be easy to hold PMP going up the inclines, but don't do this as you'll almost certainly pay for it in the second half. Loads of time to get those seconds back later. For once ignore your trusty leader (Sorry Dubgal :pac:) and use your Garmin here to ensure you're not moving too quickly.
Mile 4 - Up the NCR and into the park beside the Garda HQ. Flat enough but may get congested due to the narrow roads around the zoo. Again, don't panic. A few seconds dropped here can be easily reclaimed later on. If you're following pacers, don't worry if you're not on their shoulder. Once you can see them, you can catch them. Don't zig-zag all over the road, wasting energy and covering more ground than necessary trying to make up ground. It will open up like the Red Sea after halfway.
Miles 5-7 - Almost three miles in a straight line up Chesterfield Avenue to Castleknock. Road is significantly wider here which should ease any congestion and allow you to get back into your rhythm. Slight drag all the way up but nothing major.
Miles 8-10 - Turning back out of Castleknock and taking a roundabout route down into Chapelizod through the park. This is all downhill. Keep the effort the same and your splits for these miles should be naturally quicker than before. You should be close to target PMP on your pace band going through the 10 mile point, but being slightly slower is fine. There are fast sections coming up in a few miles.
Miles 11-13 - This is the steepest incline you'll tackle in the entire race. St Laurence's Hill takes you out of Chapelizod up into Ballyfermot. Don't even look at your watch here. Just concentrate on keeping the effort steady & consistent. From there to Rialto you're constantly going slightly up or down. Again, it's the effort that's all important. Don't even worry if you're slightly behind pace through halfway. Dublin is a course that suits a negative split.
Miles 14-15 - A long drag from Dolphins Barn up the Crumlin Road and then on to the Walkinstown Roundabout. Wind is normally against you here, but it was stronger than usual last year and you'd be very unlucky to encounter the same conditions. Effort again is the most important thing in these miles.
Miles 16-20 - Respite - at last! When you turn left off the Walkinstown roundabout, you head down Cromwellsfort Road into Kimmage, and then through Terenure and Rathgar towards Milltown. Almost entirely flat with good support and a good opportunity to make up any lost time. Probably the longest section of the course without any significant inclines/declines.
Miles 20-23 - Coming into Milltown, you drop downhill below the LUAS bridge, before climbing back up into the village itself. There's plenty of winding around bends after that until you eventually come to 'Heartbreak Hill' on Roebuck Road. Don't believe the hype. This is not much of a climb at all and has been totally exaggerated in the last few years. The fact that a big crowd lines the street there cheering and clapping you up to the Lucozade 'Wall Of Support' makes it even easier to scale. Over and done with in no time. Then it's a nice downhill on Fosters Avenue before rising back up a little bit to the N11.
Miles 23-Finish - As soon as you turn left down the N11 you are heading directly for the finish line. I don't know about anyone else, but this gives me a huge boost. Another overplayed 'hill' is the slip-road off the N11 here. If you actually look at it, you barely climb at all. The dual carriageway drops down below the bridge meaning you're barely coming off the flat to get to the top. Once you've done that, it's down the other side onto Nutley Lane and a flat (slightly downhill) run to the finish. The crowds will increase for each yard you travel and it just gets louder and louder. Soak it all in and enjoy it
Thanks for that, that incline at the start of 11-13 is one section I have not ran before at all and have been told to watch for it by a few sources now.0 -
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Might be overkill but we're always told not to try something new on the race day that you haven't tried on your LSR so are these things easy enough to tear off & dump if they get annoying.
I ask because I might get two (4:30 & 4:40)
If you do decide to tear them off and dump them please do so responsibly 0 -
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