Eir rural FTTH thread

rob808 · 02-10-2015 10:22PM

Jaketherake wrote: »

My area has the blue line going past it and along all the other roads around.
We have had a cab enabled since the start of FTTC.
Myself and a few other people in the area have eFibre, but eircom keep tell all of the other neighbours that its not available in their area when they try to get it.
And no amount of convincing will work on Eircom. they will not even come out to them to check.
The funny thing is that i have eFibre and both neighbours either side of me are being told not available in your area. The guy across the road has it too.

what speed do get from your efibre if it less than 30mb you get FTTH of eir but you won't be able to order until they start working on it in 2017 but you mightn't have it until 2020.The eir sales won't be able answer your question because work hasn't even started.

Jaketherake · 03-10-2015 12:57PM

rob808 wrote: »

what speed do get from your efibre if it less than 30mb you get FTTH of eir but you won't be able to order until they start working on it in 2017 but you mightn't have it until 2020.The eir sales won't be able answer your question because work hasn't even started.

I have just over 50 megs at the moment, but my point was that eir just because eir make it available in your area it is likely that they might not supply you, as has happened with eFibre in my area. So a blue line means some people along it will be served and eir will just ignore others on it.

Gonzo · 03-10-2015 01:05PM

Jaketherake wrote: »

I have just over 50 megs at the moment, but my point was that eir just because eir make it available in your area it is likely that they might not supply you, as has happened with eFibre in my area. So a blue line means some people along it will be served and eir will just ignore others on it.

eFiber is totally different to FTTH in how it works. Efibre uses a cabinet and if your line is not connected to that cabinet you get nothing and if your over 1500m from the cabinet your speed is not much better than standard ADSL. Thats why eFibre has been so patchy in who can get it and who can't.

The blue lines FTTH are like cable and it will connect all houses that run alongside the blue lines. The main point of it is to connect people who dont get eFibre or who have very low speeds from it. the blue lines also mostly run alongside peoples homes on roads heading into the countryside rather than a housing estate type situation where its almost a lottery if you get efibre or not.

legocrazy505 · 03-10-2015 01:09PM

As per usual with the area I live in, efibre coming to a village less than 1km down the road in Q1 2016 and we probably won't get anything from it. FTTH gets announced and that coverage ends about 1km up the road in the other direction. Ireland is an absolute joke of a country. NBP won't fix anything because we all know who will snatch it up "because they already run the infrastructure that has made Ireland the leader of IT in Europe"....

enfant terrible · 03-10-2015 01:55PM

Think we have some of the best broadband infrastructure in the world.

Anyone know are many other countries running fiber cables out to rural areas?

ED E · 03-10-2015 03:09PM

enfant terrible wrote: »

Think we have some of the best broadband infrastructure in the world.

Anyone know are many other countries running fiber cables out to rural areas?

Sweden
http://www.ftthcouncil.eu/documents/Opinions/2013/Rural_FTTH_Nordics_Final.pdf

Jaketherake · 03-10-2015 03:14PM

Gonzo wrote: »

eFiber is totally different to FTTH in how it works. Efibre uses a cabinet and if your line is not connected to that cabinet you get nothing and if your over 1500m from the cabinet your speed is not much better than standard ADSL. Thats why eFibre has been so patchy in who can get it and who can't.

The blue lines FTTH are like cable and it will connect all houses that run alongside the blue lines. The main point of it is to connect people who dont get eFibre or who have very low speeds from it. the blue lines also mostly run alongside peoples homes on roads heading into the countryside rather than a housing estate type situation where its almost a lottery if you get efibre or not.

They said the same thing when we were told eFibre was coiming to our area. they said everyone within x distance of the cab would get it.

Johnboy1951 · 03-10-2015 03:23PM

Jaketherake wrote: »

They said the same thing when we were told eFibre was coiming to our area. they said everyone within x distance of the cab would get it.

.... and those connected to the cab do ...

Jaketherake · 03-10-2015 04:40PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

.... and those connected to the cab do ...

Well eircom confirmed that several people were connected to the cab when asked. Of those who were, about 50% got eFibre.

bk · 03-10-2015 05:47PM

ED E wrote: »

Sweden
http://www.ftthcouncil.eu/documents/Opinions/2013/Rural_FTTH_Nordics_Final.pdf

The Scandinavians are certainly ahead of us, as are the Lithuanians, but we are certainly catching up very quickly and looks like we will end up in the top 20 countries.

Gonzo · 03-10-2015 08:25PM

enfant terrible wrote: »

Think we have some of the best broadband infrastructure in the world.

Anyone know are many other countries running fiber cables out to rural areas?

they doing this in the UK now as well I think?

rob808 · 03-10-2015 08:44PM

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2015/05/uk-isp-gigaclear-win-huge-30m-rural-fibre-optic-broadband-funding-boost.html

guil · 03-10-2015 11:36PM

Gonzo wrote: »

eFiber is totally different to FTTH in how it works. Efibre uses a cabinet and if your line is not connected to that cabinet you get nothing and if your over 1500m from the cabinet your speed is not much better than standard ADSL. Thats why eFibre has been so patchy in who can get it and who can't.

The blue lines FTTH are like cable and it will connect all houses that run alongside the blue lines. The main point of it is to connect people who dont get eFibre or who have very low speeds from it. the blue lines also mostly run alongside peoples homes on roads heading into the countryside rather than a housing estate type situation where its almost a lottery if you get efibre or not.

That's not totally correct. Efibre is available if you are DF as well.

Gonzo · 04-10-2015 05:15PM

guil wrote: »

That's not totally correct. Efibre is available if you are DF as well.

I forgot about the DF lines but even at that it doesnt operate out very far and slows down very fast after about 1200meters radius from the centre of a town/village.

legocrazy505 · 04-10-2015 08:55PM

bk wrote: »

The Scandinavians are certainly ahead of us, as are the Lithuanians, but we are certainly catching up very quickly and looks like we will end up in the top 20 countries.

You can say this but until there are actual results which there isn't then really the government need to keep pushing. I have serious doubts Eir will actually be able to roll this out after years of saying how it's not "viable" for them, I don't see how it can suddenly be fine to announce now. It's a pipe dream for "rural" Ireland in order to get the NBP tender, nothing more. Once they get that I reckon they'll tone it back and say "oh we can only do 30mbps because it would cost too much to do what we had originally proposed".

And 30mbps by 2020 isn't a once and for all solution to the problem that has hindered "rural" Ireland for so long.

Johnboy1951 · 04-10-2015 09:10PM

legocrazy505 wrote: »

You can say this but until there are actual results which there isn't then really the government need to keep pushing. I have serious doubts Eir will actually be able to roll this out after years of saying how it's not "viable" for them, I don't see how it can suddenly be fine to announce now. It's a pipe dream for "rural" Ireland in order to get the NBP tender, nothing more. Once they get that I reckon they'll tone it back and say "oh we can only do 30mbps because it would cost too much to do what we had originally proposed".

And 30mbps by 2020 isn't a once and for all solution to the problem that has hindered "rural" Ireland for so long.

No one will get the contract/s unless they specify exactly what they aim to provide and how they aim to do so.

rob808 · 04-10-2015 09:18PM

legocrazy505 wrote: »

You can say this but until there are actual results which there isn't then really the government need to keep pushing. I have serious doubts Eir will actually be able to roll this out after years of saying how it's not "viable" for them, I don't see how it can suddenly be fine to announce now. It's a pipe dream for "rural" Ireland in order to get the NBP tender, nothing more. Once they get that I reckon they'll tone it back and say "oh we can only do 30mbps because it would cost too much to do what we had originally proposed".

And 30mbps by 2020 isn't a once and for all solution to the problem that has hindered "rural" Ireland for so long.

It because of the FTTC roll out and they can upgrade people easy enough to FTTH.They probably did make the move to supply 300,000 rural homes FTTH to make easier to secure a bid in NBP.They be able to offer way higher than 30mb way upto 1GB.There up against siro who are making there own FTTH network and are interested in NBP.

Gonzo · 04-10-2015 10:28PM

legocrazy505 wrote: »

You can say this but until there are actual results which there isn't then really the government need to keep pushing. I have serious doubts Eir will actually be able to roll this out after years of saying how it's not "viable" for them, I don't see how it can suddenly be fine to announce now. It's a pipe dream for "rural" Ireland in order to get the NBP tender, nothing more. Once they get that I reckon they'll tone it back and say "oh we can only do 30mbps because it would cost too much to do what we had originally proposed".

And 30mbps by 2020 isn't a once and for all solution to the problem that has hindered "rural" Ireland for so long.

I think Eir will stick to their word and deliver to the 300,000+ homes, however It may think longer than 2020 before it's all completed. I do not believe they will go with a cheaper alternative as we all know wireless is fairly crap and does not work at all locations with line of sight problems etc. They wont do efibre either as the cost of installing cabinets every 1.5km all over the country would just be insane as well as planning permission problems so FTTH really is the only method they can use.

legocrazy505 · 05-10-2015 12:12AM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

No one will get the contract/s unless they specify exactly what they aim to provide and how they aim to do so.

I already know this is the case but I can just see the government settling for a solution that is another band-aid solution to the problem.

rob808 wrote: »

It because of the FTTC roll out and they can upgrade people easy enough to FTTH.They probably did make the move to supply 300,000 rural homes FTTH to make easier to secure a bid in NBP.They be able to offer way higher than 30mb way upto 1GB.There up against siro who are making there own FTTH network and are interested in NBP.

No they have always stated fibre (FTTH and FTTC) would never be viable for rural, they've already said recently they would need €1 billion to make the NBP work. I know Siro is also in the running for this and honestly I'd rather they secure it. We need fresh competition, Eir have owned the infrastructure for years and have sat on their backsides when it comes to "rural" locations. It's about time someone else came along and had a go. Siro's solution to me seems far more ambitious too if it's given the money it needs to get going.

Gonzo wrote: »

I think Eir will stick to their word and deliver to the 300,000+ homes, however It may think longer than 2020 before it's all completed. I do not believe they will go with a cheaper alternative as we all know wireless is fairly crap and does not work at all locations with line of sight problems etc. They wont do efibre either as the cost of installing cabinets every 1.5km all over the country would just be insane as well as planning permission problems so FTTH really is the only method they can use.

I'm aware FTTH is the only viable solution but they could still have " up to 1gbps FTTH" but only allow the customer to receive far less than that. The problem here is these plans if they are to be in way useful need to be done by 2020, not after. I enjoy "advanced broadband services" according to Eir, that's 0.85mbps down and 0.20mbps. 1km away from a planned cabinet and 1km away from planned FTTH. I'll get nothing with Eir's grand and glorious plan, it's simply not ambitious enough and I fear the NBP will turn out to also be a disappointment if Eir are handed the tender.

rob808 · 05-10-2015 01:03AM

I know what your saying but to be fair eir have being doing what there saying yes there some people who can't get efibre yet in FTTC areas.I think that down planning and other issue which cause the delays.

The NBP hasn't really anything to do with eir announcement I see them finishing 1.9 million connections by 2020.The NBP seem it might be a failure but 275 million still alot of money and that just start of money the real figure won't be knowing till it goes to tender at end of this year.

The worst case would be if wisp did win it over the 20 years

guil · 05-10-2015 08:23AM

legocrazy505 wrote: »

I already know this is the case but I can just see the government settling for a solution that is another band-aid solution to the problem.

No they have always stated fibre (FTTH and FTTC) would never be viable for rural, they've already said recently they would need €1 billion to make the NBP work. I know Siro is also in the running for this and honestly I'd rather they secure it. We need fresh competition, Eir have owned the infrastructure for years and have sat on their backsides when it comes to "rural" locations. It's about time someone else came along and had a go. Siro's solution to me seems far more ambitious too if it's given the money it needs to get going.

What do you think Siro is going to do if you say FTTH isn't viable?

rob808 · 05-10-2015 10:20AM

Siro interested in NBP and would want some of the 275 million they would do FTTH to rural areas.It more than likely the NBP won't be finished by 2020 probably main reason the goverment made it a 20 year contract.I do think eir would finish it 300,000 houses by 2020 or maybe 2021.

I think this because nearly all blues lines are coming out from FTTC areas making it easier for eir to do FTTH.The only problem which could delay it would be planning and road authorities.

bk · 05-10-2015 11:12AM

legocrazy505 wrote: »

No they have always stated fibre (FTTH and FTTC) would never be viable for rural, they've already said recently they would need €1 billion to make the NBP work.

No, actually, they never said that. They have always said it will be difficult and expensive up front, but they have never said it wasn't viable.

Rural FTTH is very viable, in fact it is the perfect solution for rural broadband.

It is far more reliable and easy to maintain then copper network and it doesn't suffer from degradation over long distances.

The cost of maintaining and operating a fiber network is a fraction of a copper network. I've read reports that the savings from the reduced opex costs would actually pay for the construction of the fiber network after just 10 years. Beyond that they would be saving significantly over maintaining a copper network.

There are just two issues with this. Obviously they need to be allowed by comreg to decommission the copper network in order to benefit from the savings.

Secondly the 1 billion they would need up front to build the network in the first place isn't just going to fall out of the sky. With Eircom up until recently with €5 billion in debt, they simply couldn't afford to raise the money to do it. Since they now have restructured and redcuded their debt and stopped the bleeding of customers with FTTC, they are now in a better place to raise the money to build out their FTTH network.

In the long term, FTTH is a no brainer, it just can't be done over night.

legocrazy505 · 05-10-2015 08:36PM

guil wrote: »

What do you think Siro is going to do if you say FTTH isn't viable?

I'm not saying it, Eir have been for years. They have been saying for ages there isn't the return to make it worthwhile. People saying Eir have now got the money to invest in it, maybe they have but the amount of people they would be serving with FTTH hasn't. The whole excuse companies have always given people outside of cities is it's "too expensive" or "not enough people". Eir are only announcing this because competition has come knocking.

I won't deny the whole plan isn't exciting but I've read and experienced Eir's failure to deliver so much that I feel the plan is too good to be true. I also feel it isn't ambitious enough but I hope that the NBP can cut the time needed to build the network and also deliver FTTH nationwide.

I don't feel this can be done with Eir though due to the fact they have ran the infrastructure for years and have been just a failed business, Siro have their finances in order already. They should be the ones getting the cheque.

In the end Eir are only changing their tune about rural broadband because they smell money.

bk · 05-10-2015 09:17PM

legocrazy505 wrote: »

I'm not saying it, Eir have been for years. They have been saying for ages there isn't the return to make it worthwhile. People saying Eir have now got the money to invest in it, maybe they have but the amount of people they would be serving with FTTH hasn't. The whole excuse companies have always given people outside of cities is it's "too expensive" or "not enough people". Eir are only announcing this because competition has come knocking.

Simple, until recently Eircom couldn't afford it, but things change, why is that so hard to understand?!

Until mid-2012, Eircom was in debt to the tune of €5 Billion!!!!

They then restructured that debt, cutting it in half to €2.5 Billion.

But that meant lenders weren't happy (they made big loses on Eircom) and for the next few years, Eircom found it VERY hard to borrow the money they needed at favourable rates.

But now things have improved significantly, the economy is out of the recession and growing quickly again. Eircoms FTTC rollout has been a big success and they have finally stabilised their lose of customers and is actually growing parts of the company (EVision, Meteor, etc.) and growing profitability.

So now they are able to borrow the money they need to actually rollout FTTH.

Of course there is also an element of protecting their turf from a new competitor. That is why competition is great!

rob808 · 05-10-2015 09:24PM

legocrazy505 wrote: »

I'm not saying it, Eir have been for years. They have been saying for ages there isn't the return to make it worthwhile. People saying Eir have now got the money to invest in it, maybe they have but the amount of people they would be serving with FTTH hasn't. The whole excuse companies have always given people outside of cities is it's "too expensive" or "not enough people". Eir are only announcing this because competition has come knocking.

I won't deny the whole plan isn't exciting but I've read and experienced Eir's failure to deliver so much that I feel the plan is too good to be true. I also feel it isn't ambitious enough but I hope that the NBP can cut the time needed to build the network and also deliver FTTH nationwide.

I don't feel this can be done with Eir though due to the fact they have ran the infrastructure for years and have been just a failed business, Siro have their finances in order already. They should be the ones getting the cheque.

In the end Eir are only changing their tune about rural broadband because they smell money.

well you have to remember eir was owned by different owners who just acid strip it.The competition heating up with siro and in Dublin virgin has a big market share so they can't go back to there old ways because it be there end giving why there investing heavily in fibre.

Gonzo · 05-10-2015 09:44PM

Eircom/Eir can never go back to their old ways, they paid hard for trying to keep the ISDN/Dialup cashcow for far too long with slow expansion of ADSL exchanges in the early days while at the same time NTL/UPC/Virgin Media built an entire future upgradable cable/fibre network covering Dublin and serving over a million people and took most of the business away from Eircom.

They are not gonna let that happen again in the countryside and provincial towns. The countryside is not densely populated but it still holds roughly 60% of the population.

ACLFC7 · 06-10-2015 09:14PM

I'm looking at the "Rural Fibre Routes" on this map http://fibrerollout.ie/where-and-when/. The fibre route where I live comes from an exchange that is approx 4.5 Km away? Will this impact heavily on my potential future speed?

mass_debater · 06-10-2015 09:18PM

ACLFC7 wrote: »

I'm looking at the "Rural Fibre Routes" on this map http://fibrerollout.ie/where-and-when/. The fibre route where I live comes from an exchange that is approx 4.5 Km away? Will this impact heavily on my potential future speed?

No, fibre isn't affected buy distance in the same way copper is, it can easily do 25 km, and then just needs a repeater to do another 25 km

ACLFC7 · 06-10-2015 09:20PM

mass_debater wrote: »

No, fibre isn't affected buy distance in the same way copper is, it can easily do 25 km, and then just needs a repeater to do another 25 km

OK, Cheers

Eir rural FTTH thread

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