Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

Greengrass1 · 26-09-2015 11:50PM

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I love farming, sometimes probably too much. But sometimes u need to think of those around u. Some farmers love to say holidays aren't for them, and in saying that they're deciding their families won't have holidays with them either, v v selfish.

100% agree it's only now after 40 yrs busting there ass my folks take holidays and it's the best thing they do.
Come back with a new perspective on things.
Didn't get away here this summer but definitely will be in Spain for a wk next summer.
Diary already filling up with Macra stuff so that'll keep me busy

kowtow · 27-09-2015 08:33AM

Deepsouthwest wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I love farming, sometimes probably too much. But sometimes u need to think of those around u. Some farmers love to say holidays aren't for them, and in saying that they're deciding their families won't have holidays with them either, v v selfish.

Afraid I'm guilty of that this year.

Was all set for a week of white sand + heat at Christmas .. first family holiday together for some years.

Until we scanned. .. so OH + any children that want to join her off on Stephens day while I rinse off the calving jack.

Deepsouthwest · 27-09-2015 08:56AM

kowtow wrote: »

Afraid I'm guilty of that this year.

Was all set for a week of white sand + heat at Christmas .. first family holiday together for some years.

Until we scanned. .. so OH + any children that want to join her off on Stephens day while I rinse off the calving jack.

That sounds like a typical farmers excuse that's peddled out to farmers wives yr after yr, I didn't have u down for that type.
Scanning doesn't determine when a cow will calve, AI/bulling date and breed of bull decide that, I doubt if that changed since u booked ur holiday. Scanning only really confirms a pregnancy, and possibly which service to held to if u get it before 80/90days, anything after that is vague.

kowtow · 27-09-2015 09:01AM

Deepsouthwest wrote:

That sounds like a typical farmers excuse that's peddled out to farmers wives yr after yr, I didn't have u down for that type. Scanning doesn't determine when a cow will calve, AI/bulling date and breed of bull decide that, I doubt if that changed since u booked ur holiday. Scanning only really confirms a pregnancy, and possibly which service to held to if u get it before 80/90days, anything after that is vague.

I'm afraid it's worse than an excuse!

Suffice to say that I didn't think a five month old bull calf would have had it in him.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 27-09-2015 09:34AM

kowtow wrote: »

I'm afraid it's worse than an excuse!

Suffice to say that I didn't think a five month old bull calf would have had it in him.

Sign of health, as my father would say.

Deepsouthwest · 27-09-2015 10:33AM

kowtow wrote: »

I'm afraid it's worse than an excuse!

Suffice to say that I didn't think a five month old bull calf would have had it in him.

Well, I was not expecting that answer. So, ur dignity's intact but ur calving pattern's fcuked up!
He most be the most fertile bull in Ireland!!

kowtow · 27-09-2015 10:50AM

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Well, I was not expecting that answer. So, ur dignity's intact but ur calving pattern's fcuked up!
He most be the most fertile bull in Ireland!!

It's all part of the long process of wrestling management control away from the cows. They were here before I was, and by and large they know what they are doing (certainly compared to the farmer), but they do lack any sort of moral compass.

Straight into the parlour for them this year, calves de-horned and separated, and AI from now on. In fact I'm half tempted to go with sexed semen as an additional safety measure.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 27-09-2015 10:55AM

kowtow wrote: »

It's all part of the long process of wrestling management control away from the cows. They were here before I was, and by and large they know what they are doing (certainly compared to the farmer), but they do lack any sort of moral compass.

Straight into the parlour for them this year, calves de-horned and separated, and AI from now on. In fact I'm half tempted to go with sexed semen as an additional safety measure.

Be careful if you do. Some bulls have very bad conception rates with sexed semen and some have near normal conception rates.

Deepsouthwest · 27-09-2015 10:59AM

kowtow wrote: »

It's all part of the long process of wrestling management control away from the cows. They were here before I was, and by and large they know what they are doing (certainly compared to the farmer), but they do lack any sort of moral compass.

Straight into the parlour for them this year, calves de-horned and separated, and AI from now on. In fact I'm half tempted to go with sexed semen as an additional safety measure.

Stick with conventional AI I'd say, maybe an introduction of sex ed at an earlier date, for the farmer of course, and u should be safe enough!

Sacrolyte · 27-09-2015 11:13AM

Greengrass1 wrote: »

100% agree it's only now after 40 yrs busting there ass my folks take holidays and it's the best thing they do.
Come back with a new perspective on things.
Didn't get away here this summer but definitely will be in Spain for a wk next summer.
Diary already filling up with Macra stuff so that'll keep me busy

Would ye be where ye are today if your parents didn't burst their arses for forty years. Doubt it. Not having a pop but you got to look at the holistic picture. Some of us are where your parents were with our heads down arses up and I think we all know or hope it won't be forever. I'm doing it for the next generation. I can see the light.

kowtow · 27-09-2015 11:17AM

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Stick with conventional AI I'd say, maybe an introduction of sex ed at an earlier date, for the farmer of course, and u should be safe enough!

Thankfully this year we had time to build sufficient handling around the parlour to make AI a sensible prospect next year.

And having the parlour up and running before calving (unlike last year) means we can separate straight away. As entertaining as it was, the Cows should be much easier to draft when they don't have their randy 350kg "teenager" in tow as they come out of the bail gates.

Then theoretically all we have to do is connect up the tank, start making some cheese and persuade the co-op to take whatever is left over. Figuring that part of the puzzle out is December's job*.

*oh, and buy a few springers to get the numbers up.

Deepsouthwest · 27-09-2015 11:41AM

Sacrolyte wrote: »

Would ye be where ye are today if your parents didn't burst their arses for forty years. Doubt it. Not having a pop but you got to look at the holistic picture. Some of us are where your parents were with our heads down arses up and I think we all know or hope it won't be forever. I'm doing it for the next generation. I can see the light.

Sorry, can't agree with that. U live ur life for u, are u gonna be holding this guilt trip over ur kids in twenty yrs time if none of them are interested in farming, telling them how u had "ur head down and ass up" for yrs, and this the thanx u get. That day is long, long gone.
U choose the life u live.

Timmaay · 27-09-2015 12:04PM

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Sorry, can't agree with that. U live ur life for u, are u gonna be holding this guilt trip over ur kids in twenty yrs time if none of them are interested in farming, telling them how u had "ur head down and ass up" for yrs, and this the thanx u get. That day is long, long gone.
U choose the life u live.

Its just a generation gap, young people like GG etc just need to accept that life was alot harder for our parents, however equally so they expected less of life, holidays were a total bonus, not a given expectation every year etc. And as you said DSW our parents or us as parents need to accept that kids down owe us/them anything, and it's pointless working yourself into the grave expecting otherwise.

Sacrolyte · 27-09-2015 12:04PM

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Sorry, can't agree with that. U live ur life for u, are u gonna be holding this guilt trip over ur kids in twenty yrs time if none of them are interested in farming, telling them how u had "ur head down and ass up" for yrs, and this the thanx u get. That day is long, long gone.
U choose the life u live.

I suppose it nigh on impossible to know where a person is at from one or two lines in a post.
I guess that's how you've misread my situation. I would never expect any son/daughter of mine to get into farming. They will choose their own paths.
And don't worry. I have a life too. Work hard play hard kinda thing. But I'm not totally self centred. When my children are of maturing age they can do whatever they like outside farming or if they want can get involved in a hopefully viable dairy enterprise.

kowtow · 27-09-2015 12:23PM

Sacrolyte wrote: »

I have a life too. Work hard play hard kinda thing. But I'm not totally self centred. When my children are of maturing age they can do whatever they like outside farming or if they want can get involved in a hopefully viable dairy enterprise.

We're spoilt, especially here, by endless dairy research but one of the surveys I'd really like to see is one of the difference in sentiment / perceived obligation between say Irish dairy farms & UK farms. I'm basing this on the assumption that many if not all UK farms have changed over the last 20 years away from the typical family model which we all see here into much more businesslike enterprises - run, perhaps still by family, but also perhaps upon less emotional lines. Not all of them by any means, and I'm not suggesting that one way or the other is better.

Many of us here would have parents who worked under much harder conditions to build up wealth but it's worth remembering that (on paper at least) their generation built capital which would have been unthinkable to their own parents and grandparents. I would be surprised if we see the same kind of increase in wealth in the next generation. Moreover, in farming at least, incomes simply don't reflect that wealth - and only time will tell us whether that is because milk is too cheap or land is madly overpriced.

I think Ireland really is unique in terms of family farming and I wonder whether the discussion we are having here will even be the same sort of emotive issue when the time comes for GG's generation to consider succession.

Certainly would be a fruitful study area for all those diverse educations farming parents are stretching themselves to provide.

freedominacup · 27-09-2015 07:30PM

Timmaay wrote: »

Its just a generation gap, young people like GG etc just need to accept that life was alot harder for our parents, however equally so they expected less of life, holidays were a total bonus, not a given expectation every year etc. And as you said DSW our parents or us as parents need to accept that kids down owe us/them anything, and it's pointless working yourself into the grave expecting otherwise.

In fairness to gg he grew up with it. There has to be a balance.

Greengrass1 · 27-09-2015 08:34PM

Sacrolyte wrote: »

Would ye be where ye are today if your parents didn't burst their arses for forty years. Doubt it. Not having a pop but you got to look at the holistic picture. Some of us are where your parents were with our heads down arses up and I think we all know or hope it won't be forever. I'm doing it for the next generation. I can see the light.

I reckon they would be further on again tbh maybe I'm wrong.
Break sets the fire alight in you again imo

jaymla627 · 27-09-2015 09:38PM

kowtow wrote: »

We're spoilt, especially here, by endless dairy research but one of the surveys I'd really like to see is one of the difference in sentiment / perceived obligation between say Irish dairy farms & UK farms. I'm basing this on the assumption that many if not all UK farms have changed over the last 20 years away from the typical family model which we all see here into much more businesslike enterprises - run, perhaps still by family, but also perhaps upon less emotional lines. Not all of them by any means, and I'm not suggesting that one way or the other is better.

Many of us here would have parents who worked under much harder conditions to build up wealth but it's worth remembering that (on paper at least) their generation built capital which would have been unthinkable to their own parents and grandparents. I would be surprised if we see the same kind of increase in wealth in the next generation. Moreover, in farming at least, incomes simply don't reflect that wealth - and only time will tell us whether that is because milk is too cheap or land is madly overpriced.

I think Ireland really is unique in terms of family farming and I wonder whether the discussion we are having here will even be the same sort of emotive issue when the time comes for GG's generation to consider succession.

Certainly would be a fruitful study area for all those diverse educations farming parents are stretching themselves to provide.

wealthiest farmer in my area, started out farming 50 years ago with a few hundred pounds he gathered up while over in america working on the twin towers, owes 250 acres at the minute and is extremely wealthy....
unthinkable that the same type scenario could occur in Ireland in present times

WheatenBriar · 27-09-2015 09:44PM

He mightn't actually be that wealthy
Nobody truly knows anybody elses business tbh
I gave up assuming things a long time ago

kowtow · 27-09-2015 10:10PM

frazzledhome wrote:

Henry IV If I'm not mistaken

It was, but given the evening that's in it (and the turn the discussion has taken) perhaps Richard II would have been better..

"The pale faced moon looks bloody on the earth.. and lean-looked prophets whisper fearful change"

jaymla627 · 27-09-2015 10:10PM

WheatenBriar wrote: »

He mightn't actually be that wealthy
Nobody truly knows anybody elses business tbh
I gave up assuming things a long time ago

Would know the man extremely well through the father and he's minted, would be a extreme case granted but he made a fortune the time the first eu subsides came in and that's what gave him a great kick start and land was bought fairly right back then too....
The Celtic tiger and the bubble it created for land prices is probably the biggest contributing factor in screwing up the correlation between land prices and the return you can get from it thorough farming back then their wasnt farmers falling over themselves paying 13-14 grand an acre on the back of selling sites near the town for millions

kowtow · 27-09-2015 10:17PM

jaymla627 wrote:

The Celtic tiger and the bubble it created for land prices is probably the biggest contributing factor in screwing up the correlation between land prices and the return you can get from it thorough farming back then their wasnt farmers falling over themselves paying 13-14 grand an acre on the back of selling sites near the town for millions

True, though UK has also seen sharp rises for farmland and there is no valid development explanation there.

Closely tied to the latest phase of the commodity cycle come to think of it but not i think a direct result. .. more likely it shares some common underlying cause.

whelan2 · 28-09-2015 09:22AM

What dairy nuts are ye feeding and how much? Feeding an 18% here, fresh ones on 5-6kg and stale ones on 2kg

Greengrass1 · 28-09-2015 10:08AM

whelan2 wrote: »

What dairy nuts are ye feeding and how much? Feeding an 18% here, fresh ones on 5-6kg and stale ones on 2kg

16 here. Fresh 3 spring ones 2

Milked out · 28-09-2015 10:12AM

whelan2 wrote: »

What dairy nuts are ye feeding and how much? Feeding an 18% here, fresh ones on 5-6kg and stale ones on 2kg

2kg 14% at the moment. No fresh yet. Given grass situation may order 18% for next load as silage likely to be fed. Will get 16% in parlour when cows go in and get a 3 way mix to balance silage and maize in feeder probably. Will allow me to raise and lower ration to milkers without affecting overall p in diet too much

mahoney_j · 28-09-2015 10:13AM

Greengrass1 wrote: »

16 here. Fresh 3 spring ones 2

18% here 285 tonne.just over 3 kg been fed.is 3 kg enough for fresh calves gg??.grass doesn't have same punch now as earlier in year even though it looks very good ,fresh cows would prob need 5 kg at grass

Timmaay · 28-09-2015 10:27AM

14%p, fresh 4kg stale 1kg. fresh calver knocked out 21L this morning, so I make bump her up to 5/6kg. Need to order nuts today, will prb go to a 16%, athlo milk urea still in the 40s/50s, so doesn't appear the cows are lacking P.

Timmaay · 28-09-2015 10:31AM

Milked out wrote: »

2kg 14% at the moment. No fresh yet. Given grass situation may order 18% for next load as silage likely to be fed. Will get 16% in parlour when cows go in and get a 3 way mix to balance silage and maize in feeder probably. Will allow me to raise and lower ration to milkers without affecting overall p in diet too much

Your obviously stocked very high? Grass flying it here, probably the best summer/autumn here for growth in many many years, will hopefully keep the cows out until close to Dec if weather allows.

mahoney_j · 28-09-2015 10:38AM

Timmaay wrote: »

14%p, fresh 4kg stale 1kg. fresh calver knocked out 21L this morning, so I make bump her up to 5/6kg. Need to order nuts today, will prb go to a 16%, athlo milk urea still in the 40s/50s, so doesn't appear the cows are lacking P.

A lot of p in grass this time of year can't be processed by the cow though Tim,as it breaks down too quick in rumen .

Greengrass1 · 28-09-2015 10:54AM

mahoney_j wrote: »

18% here 285 tonne.just over 3 kg been fed.is 3 kg enough for fresh calves gg??.grass doesn't have same punch now as earlier in year even though it looks very good ,fresh cows would prob need 5 kg at grass

Maybe. 2 cows going into churn atm cakved 4/5 days still not clear. Was easily 30l in it between 2 of them this morning

Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

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