Dublin GAA Discussion Thread MOD WARNING POST #2944

corny · 21-09-2015 04:29PM

Stoner wrote: »

Lol will you leave Gooch alone.

There's no diminishing return to the Gooch jokes.:D

but1er · 21-09-2015 04:42PM

Worse day in my life in work! Its over time for a curer!

Sam is home

Shurimgreat · 21-09-2015 06:48PM

realies wrote: »

It makes it even more enjoyable to have won Sam when you see some of the embarrassing and petty posts that some some people post, ha ha and they have to live with Dublin being champions for another 12 months, minimum. God help there little minds if The Dubs did the double.

I'd imagine most other county's fans feel the same way that fans of most clubs in Scotland bar Celtic feel. Its a case of "ah well, what can you do".

Given the resources, money, population, facilities, number of clubs, players, young players, senior players, economies of scale, concentration of players etc etc, the only surprise is that Dublin doesn't win the AI every year.

In light of this you have to hand it to Kerry in particular for being way ahead of Dublin in AI wins.

For all the self congratulation, Dublin still have a long way to go to match Kerry's tradition.

EICVD · 21-09-2015 06:50PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I'd imagine most other county's fans feel the same way that fans of most clubs in Scotland bar Celtic feel. Its a case of "ah well, what can you do".

Given the resources, money, population, facilities, number of clubs, players, young players, senior players, economies of scale, concentration of players etc etc, the only surprise is that Dublin doesn't win the AI every year.

In light of this you have to hand it to Kerry in particular for being way ahead of Dublin in AI wins.

For all the self congratulation, Dublin still have a long way to go to match Kerry's tradition.

Well this doesn't sound like sour grapes at all....

Shurimgreat · 21-09-2015 06:53PM

EICVD wrote: »

Well this doesn't sound like sour grapes at all....

Ha, the "sour grapes" response. Kind of expected. Sometimes wish certain posters would remove their county jersey and think of the overall health of the sport. Impossible to expect I suppose.

There's no sour grapes about the Dublin win. They were the best team all year. Generally that happens when you have by far the most resources to work with.

Paulzx · 21-09-2015 07:16PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Ha, the "sour grapes" response. Kind of expected. Sometimes wish certain posters would remove their county jersey and think of the overall health of the sport. Impossible to expect I suppose.

There's no sour grapes about the Dublin win. They were the best team all year. Generally that happens when you have by far the most resources to work with.

But what do you want to do about the "overall health of the sport".

Handicap the best teams to bring them backwards instead of progressing the weaker ones forward?

Mayo don't seem to worried about the "health of the sport" in Connaught after winning 5 in a row.

All the "advantages" you've named apply equally to Dublin hurling yet they can't come next to near winning an All Ireland. A team still needs the unquantifiable X to win an All Ireland

Slattsy · 21-09-2015 07:16PM

EICVD wrote: »

Well this doesn't sound like sour grapes at all....

I tend not to go down the sour grapes route myself.

I like the 'chip on thy shoulder' angle myself. But that's just me

Sure you'd feed all those poor Syrian refugees with the amount of chips some lads have about Dublin. And our resources.

lukesmom · 21-09-2015 07:25PM

As a Meath woman with mayo blood I hoped Mayo would win this year but it wasn't meant to be....again! I shouted for Dublin yesterday, delighted they beat Kerry well done!

Paulzx · 21-09-2015 07:25PM

Slattsy wrote: »

I tend not to go down the sour grapes route myself.

I like the 'chip on thy shoulder' angle myself. But that's just me

Sure you'd feed all those poor Syrian refugees with the amount of chips some lads have about Dublin. And our resources.

........and our good looks

Shurimgreat · 21-09-2015 07:26PM

Paulzx wrote: »

........and our good looks

Now I know you're having a laugh

Paulzx · 21-09-2015 07:27PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Now I know you're having a laugh

What?????
I'm deadly serious:eek:

Slattsy · 21-09-2015 07:34PM

Paulzx wrote: »

........and our good looks

Its our cross to bear.

MonsterCookie · 21-09-2015 07:57PM

Perhaps it's the timing...you know 24 hours since Dublin won Sam, but it does come across as sour grapes.

That said, no harm debating it as long as we focus on improving the game rather than just dragging the more successful counties back.

No easy answer I'm afraid, but you'd swear Dublin were winning it every frickin year for the last few decades...3 in 5 is not exactly a problem IMO.

Sunnyisland · 21-09-2015 08:26PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I'd imagine most other county's fans feel the same way that fans of most clubs in Scotland bar Celtic feel. Its a case of "ah well, what can you do".

Given the resources, money, population, facilities, number of clubs, players, young players, senior players, economies of scale, concentration of players etc etc, the only surprise is that Dublin doesn't win the AI every year.

In light of this you have to hand it to Kerry in particular for being way ahead of Dublin in AI wins.

For all the self congratulation, Dublin still have a long way to go to match Kerry's tradition.

Well that's all well and good but when Dublin are not winning Leinster or Sam cups, like just before 2011 you don't see these posts about ,Dublins home advantage ,not nice supporters, to much money,dirty football team etc etc
They all come when we win which looks like for the most part big chips on some posters shoulders,
As for catching Kerry were getting there more so than any other county, ah but that's because Dublin have home adv, lots of money......Etc etc
Anyway enough of all this ,Dublin won yesterday I am delighted and feck all the begrudegers .

Shurimgreat · 21-09-2015 08:32PM

MonsterCookie wrote: »

Perhaps it's the timing...you know 24 hours since Dublin won Sam, but it does come across as sour grapes.

That said, no harm debating it as long as we focus on improving the game rather than just dragging the more successful counties back.

No easy answer I'm afraid, but you'd swear Dublin were winning it every frickin year for the last few decades...3 in 5 is not exactly a problem IMO.

True enough. They were definitely caught on the hop by Donegal last year. I doubt they will make that mistake next year. This year they have combined defensive solidity and a sweeper with the usual forward play. If anything they are improving and getting stronger and can bring in new players like Fenton at will. Lets be honest, they are the best team in the country and the only way to beat them is by catching them unawares like Donegal did last year or get lucky as Mayo almost did this year. There's no question Dublin are a force to stay long into the future. Its scary really the amount of young talent they have, McCaffrey, footballer of the year at 21, Kilkenny, Rock, Fenton, and a couple of others. I'd imagine there's 6 or 7 youngsters on the panel just as good. And the difference is they are all built like seniors, as opposed to fresh faced skinny minors.

Shurimgreat · 21-09-2015 08:36PM

realies wrote: »

Well that's all well and good but when Dublin are not winning Leinster or Sam cups, like just before 2011 you don't see these posts about ,Dublins home advantage ,not nice supporters, to much money,dirty football team etc etc
They all come when we win which looks like for the most part big chips on some posters shoulders,
As for catching Kerry were getting there more so than any other county, ah but that's because Dublin have home adv, lots of money......Etc etc
Anyway enough of all this ,Dublin won yesterday I am delighted and feck all the begrudegers .

Its all accumulative. Dublin with home advantage, population and resources alone weren't enough. If you slightly increase the resources and money, get more young players and trainers involved, and so on, then it gives an advantage to the county.

I don't think the most dyed in the wool Dublin supporter can argue against Dublin having a number of advantages over the majority of other counties. That's not to take from the All-Ireland, its just stating facts. Dublin is hardly short of population, money or other things. The way some Dublin supporters make it sound, you'd swear Dublin was a minnow lucky to be playing with the "big boys".

21-09-2015 08:50PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Its all accumulative. Dublin with home advantage, population and resources alone weren't enough. If you slightly increase the resources and money, get more young players and trainers involved, and so on, then it gives an advantage to the county.

I don't think the most dyed in the wool Dublin supporter can argue against Dublin having a number of advantages over the majority of other counties. That's not to take from the All-Ireland, its just stating facts. Dublin is hardly short of population, money or other things. The way some Dublin supporters make it sound, you'd swear Dublin was a minnow lucky to be playing with the "big boys".

What irks Dublin fans is the double standard.

Kilkenny utterly dominate in hurling and nobody whines about why it's unfair or that we should spilt the county in half. Kerry have won far more All Ireland titles than Dublin and yet nobody complains that Dublin have to split their resources between football and hurling whereas Kerry hurling is the poor cousin of their football brethren and they focus their coaching and resources on one game.

Dublin are just doing things right. They have good administrators, excellent structures and they maximize their revenue streams (in the same way Kerry do magnificently by the way). When other counties stop having ridiculous internal politics ruining them (Cork) they will likely come on as well.

Shurimgreat · 21-09-2015 08:57PM

Deleted User wrote: »

What irks Dublin fans is the double standard.

Kilkenny utterly dominate in hurling and nobody whines about why it's unfair or that we should spilt the county in half. Kerry have won far more All Ireland titles than Dublin and yet nobody complains that Dublin have to split their resources between football and hurling whereas Kerry hurling is the poor cousin of their football brethren and they focus their coaching and resources on one game.

Dublin are just doing things right. They have good administrators, excellent structures and they maximize their revenue streams (in the same way Kerry do magnificently by the way). When other counties stop having ridiculous internal politics ruining them (Cork) they will likely come on as well.

I don't dispute any of what you say. They also have endless finances, a huge population, a massive stadium they can fill with their own fans and drown out any others. You could fit the entire population of some Leinster counties inside Croke Park and probably still have room to spare.

They have an advantage, there is no other way of saying it to be honest. You can't say Carlow and Dublin are playing on an even field for example. Lets all just be honest about it for a start and stop pretending otherwise.

Flukey · 22-09-2015 01:24AM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I don't dispute any of what you say. They also have endless finances, a huge population, a massive stadium they can fill with their own fans and drown out any others. You could fit the entire population of some Leinster counties inside Croke Park and probably still have room to spare.

They have an advantage, there is no other way of saying it to be honest. You can't say Carlow and Dublin are playing on an even field for example. Lets all just be honest about it for a start and stop pretending otherwise.

Not this absolute rubbish again. How many times do we have say it? Go and read a few of the other threads, where this kind of stuff is brought up and where you will find the facts on this. Dublin do not have any advantage. This only comes up when Dublin win. There was none of this posted after Donegal beat us last year. There was also nothing about the advantages that Kerry have after winning their 37th All-Ireland title last year. There shouldn't be either, because they don't have any advantage. Neither do Dublin. It's almost as if we have to apologise for our success, and not get credit for it, though any other winning county gets credit. Kilkenny retained their title 2 weeks ago. They've won 8 out of the last 10 Hurling championships. We've won 3 out of the last 10 Football Championships, while Kerry have won 4. Yet, despite other counties having more success than us, only we are said to have an advantage. It would be brilliant if we did have some advantages, but unfortunately and despite what the other 31 counties like to say, we don't. If we do, we haven't been very good at using them. It is lovely for non-Dubs to say we have an advantage, but there is no evidence to back it up and a huge amount to prove how much of a nonsense that saying we have is.

corny · 22-09-2015 08:52AM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I don't dispute any of what you say. They also have endless finances, a huge population, a massive stadium they can fill with their own fans and drown out any others. You could fit the entire population of some Leinster counties inside Croke Park and probably still have room to spare.

They have an advantage, there is no other way of saying it to be honest. You can't say Carlow and Dublin are playing on an even field for example. Lets all just be honest about it for a start and stop pretending otherwise.

You've nothing constructive to say at all. Your agenda here is either to make yourself feel better or to devalue Dublin's win.

salmocab · 22-09-2015 10:50AM

Ive said before on various move dublin/split dublin etc threads that Im happy to concede Dublin have a population advantage and probably other advantages over other counties but really the threads that come along all generally miss the point that a weaker Dublin doesn't make it easier for small counties to win Sam but just easier for Kerry Donegal and maybe one or two others to win. We need to find a way to make other counties stronger and I would think coaching is the way not this continual announcements of building centers of excellence. The facilities already exist in most counties they are called clubs. Regards the money that Dublin receive, really for the argument to go further it needs a break down of what each county receives what its used for and how many codes/clubs/teams/players its used to support. Do Dublin still receive money for the development of hurling in the county as this was a big project that if I remember correctly was an attempt to get another strong team in the Hurling championship which has been reasonably successful and unlikely to have helped the footballers much but may make the money look distorted.

Nidgeweasel · 22-09-2015 12:17PM

salmocab wrote: »

a weaker Dublin doesn't make it easier for small counties to win Sam but just easier for Kerry Donegal and maybe one or two others to win.

Does not compute.

salmocab · 22-09-2015 01:54PM

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Does not compute.

I would have thought it was clear I meant small in footballing terms not just population and in GAA terms Donegal are big. By that I mean well run and successful.

Nidgeweasel · 22-09-2015 02:27PM

salmocab wrote: »

I would have thought it was clear I meant small in footballing terms not just population and in GAA terms Donegal are big. By that I mean well run and successful.

Donegal were neither until yer man from Glenties came in.

BonnieSituation · 22-09-2015 02:53PM

salmocab wrote: »

I would have thought it was clear I meant small in footballing terms not just population and in GAA terms Donegal are big. By that I mean well run and successful.

Since 2011.. When they got in a belter of a manager. You are aware they have been the laughing stick of Ulster for the most part though.

If you had told 20yo me Donegal would be a force in football I would have had you certified.

salmocab · 22-09-2015 03:00PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Since 2011.. When they got in a belter of a manager. You are aware they have been the laughing stick of Ulster for the most part though.

If you had told 20yo me Donegal would be a force in football I would have had you certified.

I understand that but the point I was making is that if Dublin were somehow weakened its counties like Kerry Mayo Tyrone and Donegal that would benefit not Louth Leitrim or Sligo.

Floppybits · 22-09-2015 03:06PM

salmocab wrote: »

I would have thought it was clear I meant small in footballing terms not just population and in GAA terms Donegal are big. By that I mean well run and successful.

That's the biggest problem in the GAA is that most counties are not well run and the County boards don't give a crap. The one thing Dublin have is that they have their house in order with the county board supporting not only the inter county teams but the clubs.

Drumpot · 22-09-2015 03:24PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I don't dispute any of what you say. They also have endless finances, a huge population, a massive stadium they can fill with their own fans and drown out any others. You could fit the entire population of some Leinster counties inside Croke Park and probably still have room to spare.

They have an advantage, there is no other way of saying it to be honest. You can't say Carlow and Dublin are playing on an even field for example. Lets all just be honest about it for a start and stop pretending otherwise.

Apart from Kerry, Cork and Mayo what counties benefit from a weaker Dublin?

It just makes the Leinster Province even weaker in All Ireland terms.

Many counties are poorly run. Your arguments are completely redundant. Kilkenny and Kerry have small populations in comparison to the success they have in football and hurling.

Cork has more clubs (259 to Dublin's 134) then any county and still manage to make a balls of their own resources.

There is no advantage in the sport if you have counties like Kerry and Kilkenny that prioritise one game in the entire county. Its a great leveller.

Kerry were in all but a handful of finals in the 00s yet nobody says anything.

This Dublin surge started in the late 90s, not when they were given more money or got more players. It was when they completely restructured their training programmes (football and hurling) and started to make better use of their resources.

For all the whining about Dublin playing at Croke Park, EVERY county in Ireland benefits from the proceeds. I am sure if it was put to a vote , most counties would vote in favour of the Dubs playing at HQ. I think it does the team/county a disservice because I used to love travelling around Leinster for the championship games.

Lastly, playing in Croke Park is a help for familiarity reasons, but it doesn't always play out like a home game. I was at the 1992 final and Donegal had 4-1 support. During the 00s when Dublin kept losing to Tyrone and Armagh , the pressure on the Dublin team was immense and I would argue that playing at home with such expectation was nearly more difficult to perform in, then having "home" advantage.

This post wasn't to try and reason with you or your kind of thinking because there is no objective rational to it. It was simply to highlight to anybody on the fence on this topic, that your points are unfounded gibberish.

BonnieSituation · 22-09-2015 04:11PM

Drumpot wrote: »

Apart from Kerry, Cork and Mayo what counties benefit from a weaker Dublin?

It just makes the Leinster Province even weaker in All Ireland terms.

Many counties are poorly run. Your arguments are completely redundant. Kilkenny and Kerry have small populations in comparison to the success they have in football and hurling.

Cork has more clubs (259 to Dublin's 134) then any county and still manage to make a balls of their own resources.

There is no advantage in the sport if you have counties like Kerry and Kilkenny that prioritise one game in the entire county. Its a great leveller.

Kerry were in all but a handful of finals in the 00s yet nobody says anything.

This Dublin surge started in the late 90s, not when they were given more money or got more players. It was when they completely restructured their training programmes (football and hurling) and started to make better use of their resources.

For all the whining about Dublin playing at Croke Park, EVERY county in Ireland benefits from the proceeds. I am sure if it was put to a vote , most counties would vote in favour of the Dubs playing at HQ. I think it does the team/county a disservice because I used to love travelling around Leinster for the championship games.

Lastly, playing in Croke Park is a help for familiarity reasons, but it doesn't always play out like a home game. I was at the 1992 final and Donegal had 4-1 support. During the 00s when Dublin kept losing to Tyrone and Armagh , the pressure on the Dublin team was immense and I would argue that playing at home with such expectation was nearly more difficult to perform in, then having "home" advantage.

This post wasn't to try and reason with you or your kind of thinking because there is no objective rational to it. It was simply to highlight to anybody on the fence on this topic, that your points are unfounded gibberish.

Everything you said is bang on. Except the late 90s part, more the late 00s.

Also, Dublin play in Croker Park in the Leinster Championship because the other counties voted to have them there.

The biggest factor in calling bollox in this advantage chat is simply how awful Cork are overall in both codes. They should be ashamed to see how they've performed since 2005 given the player pool and resources at their disposal.

Meath have started to get their house in order again. Kildare's youth structures have gotten an overhaul. These will reap rewards. As will Tipp and Roscommon.

And soon they'll dine back at the top table with Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone, Mayo and Donegal.

BonnieSituation · 22-09-2015 04:13PM

Now can us Dubs bask I the success of our footballers.

Dublin GAA Discussion Thread MOD WARNING POST #2944

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