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Charlie Hebdo makes fun of drowned Syrian boy.

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    #302
    omnithanos
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 710 ✭✭✭omnithanos


    eet fuk wrote: »
    They should be shot for that type of carry on

    The BBC reported that the Charlie Hebdo shooting was a False Flag.



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    #303
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    That "BBC" report is a fake:

    http://www.mediaite.com/online/bbc-article-calling-charlie-hebdo-attack-a-false-flag-is-a-fake/

    http://www.ibtimes.co.in/hoax-busted-report-claiming-paris-attack-was-false-flag-operation-fake-620199


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    #304
    Maguined
    Registered Users Posts: 8,247 ✭✭✭Maguined


    I found the actual photograph of the drowned child on the front page of every newspaper far more distasteful than a cartoon on one magazine could ever be.


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    #305
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,180 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    omnithanos wrote: »
    The BBC reported that the Charlie Hebdo shooting was a False Flag.


    I don't believe that's a single extract, it's a video montage : the so-called BBC reporter is never seen, and the sound quality of the sign-off at the end is very different from the rest of the report. It sounds like a different person.


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    #306
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    And Charlie Hebdo was fighting against that suppression of free expression by the state.



    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rachel-ryan/french-censorship-and-charlie-hebdo_b_6438450.html

    I believe in the right t to free speech. I do. We have the right to do many things we don't do because it would uld make us horrible and we would hurt others or anger them to a point that they hurt us. For example we could all go around saying other people's children are ugly but that t would make us mean and others might punch us.


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    #307
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    melissak wrote: »
    I believe in the right t to free speech. I do. We have the right to do many things we don't do because it would uld make us horrible and we would hurt others or anger them to a point that they hurt us. For example we could all go around saying other people's children are ugly but that t would make us mean and others might punch us.

    Well if you can't speak your mind for fear of physical violence its not very free is it.

    Melissa you don't honestly believe that the magazine was mocking Alyun Kurdi do you?


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    #308
    Mesrine65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,969 ✭✭✭Mesrine65


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    you don't honestly believe that the magazine was mocking Alyun Kurdi do you?
    Some people don't get the subtle nuance of the humour...it is however, tasteless IMHO


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    #309
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    Mesrine65 wrote: »
    Some people don't get the subtle nuance of the humour...it is however, tasteless IMHO

    Tasteless why?


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    #310
    Mesrine65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,969 ✭✭✭Mesrine65


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    Tasteless why?
    "Proof that Europe is Christian - Christians walk on water - Muslim kids drown"


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    #311
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    Mesrine65 wrote: »
    "Proof that Europe is Christian - Christians walk on water - Muslim kids drown"

    Yes its a eviscerating assault on the faux-Christianity of Europeans especially as some assert this distinction as a justification for sealing borders. It is in incredible good taste.


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    #312
    Mesrine65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,969 ✭✭✭Mesrine65


    Agree to disagree, I still think it's bad taste, a child died ;)


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    #313
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    Mesrine65 wrote: »
    Agree to disagree, I still think it's bad taste, a child died ;)

    Indeed and that is the tasteless, offensive monstrous part, not the effort to call this appalling siltation to attention and shame those responsible.


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    #314
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    Well if you can't speak your mind for fear of physical violence its not very free is it.

    Melissa you don't honestly believe that the magazine was mocking Alyun Kurdi do you?

    Having the right to do something doesn't absolve you of the consequences. To me it means that authority won't stop you, not that you should do it or that it is ok.


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    #315
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    melissak wrote: »
    Having the right to do something doesn't absolve you of the consequences. To me it means that authority won't stop you, not that you should do it or that it is ok.

    But the word authority here is key. The 'authority' is anyone with the power to stop you and in this case its the threat of physical violence from islamist forces.

    You didn't answer my question BTW.


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    #316
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    But the word authority here is key. The 'authority' is anyone with the power to stop you and in this case its the threat of physical violence from islamist forces.

    You didn't answer my question BTW.

    I think sometimes if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, maybe it is not a clever chicken that seems to be a duck in a satirical fashion in order to protest the injustice in the barnyard, but in fact a duck. Or at least people not in on the joke might reasonably be expected to take it for a duck, and that this is intentional


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    #317
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,180 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    melissak wrote: »
    I think sometimes if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, maybe it is not a clever chicken that seems to be a duck in a satirical fashion in order to protest the injustice in the barnyard, but in fact a duck. Or at least people not in on the joke might reasonably be expected to take it for a duck, and that this is intentional
    So other than your complete lack of understanding of the concept of satire, do you have any other explanation for why a group of people most of whom have a long personal history of anti-racist actions and writings would in fact be secret racists masquerading as anti-racists and fooling all those around them (but not you)?

    Or is it in fact necessary to know nothing whatsoever about the individuals involved in order to maintain your gut reaction-level assumptions about them?


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    #318
    Realt Dearg Sec
    Registered Users Posts: 10,862 ✭✭✭✭Realt Dearg Sec


    melissak wrote: »
    I think sometimes if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, maybe it is not a clever chicken that seems to be a duck in a satirical fashion in order to protest the injustice in the barnyard, but in fact a duck. Or at least people not in on the joke might reasonably be expected to take it for a duck, and that this is intentional

    So, you don't understand it, therefore it's dangerous and offensive.


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    #319
    130Kph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 625 ✭✭✭130Kph


    It's true - you can’t fix stupid :rolleyes:


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    #320
    Ignatius in bloom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 240 ✭✭Ignatius in bloom


    The outrage is mad. Most people don't really give a **** about kids dying. If we really did we would spend less on materialistic stuff and make sure we spread the wealth more equally so it doesn't happen. But the world doesn't and its crocodile tears for a few days and then out to buy a new smart phone.


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    #321
    omnithanos
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 710 ✭✭✭omnithanos


    volchitsa wrote: »
    So other than your complete lack of understanding of the concept of satire, do you have any other explanation for why a group of people most of whom have a long personal history of anti-racist actions and writings would in fact be secret racists masquerading as anti-racists and fooling all those around them (but not you)?

    Or is it in fact necessary to know nothing whatsoever about the individuals involved in order to maintain your gut reaction-level assumptions about them?

    I'd take honest big old fashioned Ron Atkinson over these monstrous pretentious Charlie Hebdo fake ass racists any day of the decade.


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    #322
    Realt Dearg Sec
    Registered Users Posts: 10,862 ✭✭✭✭Realt Dearg Sec


    omnithanos wrote: »
    I'd take honest big old fashioned Ron Atkinson over these monstrous pretentious Charlie Hebdo fake ass racists any day of the decade.

    I didn't know we had to choose between them. What are we choosing between them for, to run a football team, to create satirical cartoons, to empty the cat litter, to run the large hadron collider? Because it really does depend.


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    #323
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Ignatius in bloom wrote: »
    The outrage is mad. Most people don't really give a **** about kids dying. If we really did we would spend less on materialistic stuff and make sure we spread the wealth more equally so it doesn't happen. But the world doesn't and its crocodile tears for a few days and then out to buy a new smart phone.

    I would say the opposite, most care very much about kids dying, but the issue isn't really brought home by cold stats and articles about wars or famine, the issue really only hits when an image or a cartoon makes a powerful statement and makes it much more vivid and harder to ignore. You may not care and be happy with your smart phone and see it as a straight choice, and that is your prerogative. But not sure you can project that across the public in general, I don't think the choice really is "care for kids or good phone", or choosing the latter indicates that the buyer doesn't give a **** about kids dying.


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    #324
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    volchitsa wrote: »
    So other than your complete lack of understanding of the concept of satire, do you have any other explanation for why a group of people most of whom have a long personal history of anti-racist actions and writings would in fact be secret racists masquerading as anti-racists and fooling all those around them (but not you)?

    Or is it in fact necessary to know nothing whatsoever about the individuals involved in order to maintain your gut reaction-level assumptions about them?

    I understand satire. Satire was traditionally the only way of highlighting injustice the lower classes could resort too. I believe charlie is a provocateur. Bear in mind the scenario in france. Charlie is a french magazine that the state police is shielding with 24hr protection. France is bombing syria. Refugees from that bombing are now being refused entry to france. France is extremely polarised on the issue. There are extremists on both sides of the devide that will be fuelled by this cartoon. Extremists tend to be blinded by what they think they see. There are thousands of people who have made that terrible jouney that killed so many of their people including this little boy. There has already been a major incident that strongly suggests at least some people don't get the joke


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    #325
    Ignatius in bloom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 240 ✭✭Ignatius in bloom


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I would say the opposite, most care very much about kids dying, but the issue isn't really brought home by cold stats and articles about wars or famine, the issue really only hits when an image or a cartoon makes a powerful statement and makes it much more vivid and harder to ignore. You may not care and be happy with your smart phone and see it as a straight choice, and that is your prerogative. But not sure you can project that across the public in general, I don't think the choice really is "care for kids or good phone", or choosing the latter indicates that the buyer doesn't give a **** about kids dying.

    Good man Conor nail on head. Yes ignore the reality of statistics and concentrate on the nice shiny picture.


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    #326
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    Ignatius in bloom wrote: »
    The outrage is mad. Most people don't really give a **** about kids dying. If we really did we would spend less on materialistic stuff and make sure we spread the wealth more equally so it doesn't happen. But the world doesn't and its crocodile tears for a few days and then out to buy a new smart phone.

    If we could reduce our dependance on other people's oil it would make a big difference. Or at least acknowledge that we know it is our inability, in the supposedly developed world, to not take more than our share that hurts people.


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    #327
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »
    So, you don't understand it, therefore it's dangerous and offensive.

    No. It has already proven itself to be dangerous and offensive.


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    #328
    eet fuk
    Registered Users Posts: 263 ✭✭eet fuk


    So many posts read:

    "I believe in freedom of speech but...."

    You either do or you don't.


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    #329
    zombieHanalei
    Closed Accounts Posts: 695 ✭✭✭zombieHanalei


    eet fuk wrote: »
    So many posts read:

    "I believe in freedom of speech but...."

    You either do or you don't.

    Not true, you can believe in freedom of speech while at the same time believe people must be held accountable for how they use that freedom.


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    #330
    Ignatius in bloom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 240 ✭✭Ignatius in bloom


    melissak wrote: »
    No. It has already proven itself to be dangerous and offensive.

    Its quite informed actually. McDonalds is an interesting subject in as far one of its board of directors is also the operational executive for the Carlyle group which allegedly has a murky past in military operations.


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    #331
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,180 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Ignatius in bloom wrote: »
    Its quite informed actually. McDonalds is an interesting subject in as far one of its board of directors is also the operational executive for the Carlyle group which allegedly has a murky past in military operations.

    No, no, no, you mustn't start looking for indirect references or some sort of key to reading these things. It's absolutely essential to remain at the level of the gut reaction of the least informed person imaginable. How else would satire work?? If it walks like a duck, then it's a duck, you've just had that explained to you!

    Satire is only to be used by the oppressed - though I'd say many of the ex-Muslims who've been threatened or even physically attacked by Muslim extremists for daring to openly reject Islam should fit that definition but apparently they don't matter.

    And of course Dean Swift's famous satire about the Irish eating their children which I mentioned earlier doesn't really fit this new redefined bill either - not many people would claim that Jonathan Swift was in any way part of the oppressed class he was writing about. Would they?


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