Charlie Hebdo makes fun of drowned Syrian boy.

kunst nugget

Qualitymark wrote: »

Basically - "I'm joining ISIS - they have more respect for women", and the mullah behind her is wolf-whistling as she mops the floor.

So it's poking fun at France's treatment of women and the fact that a well respected news presenter seems to get dumped for the crime of getting old? It's provocative equating France's treatment of women to that of Isis, as is par for the course with Charlie Hebdo, but I can't really see the problem with it.

melissak

Amirani wrote: »

No, it's post hoc ergo propter hoc - a common fallacy in thinking.

I do something, repeatedly, to piss off a whole group of people that my country's bad foreign policy and greed for oil and control , this provokes a horrible reaction. At this point i know unequivocally that these people are not getting the"joke". I do the same thing again but in worse taste, do i not need to accept that i am poking a bear, and sadly an already abused bear.
Where is the fallacy of thought? I didn't say it would definitely follow, but that it might and that it will up the sales of their nasty little craprag. A lot of people on here are offended. How are the refugees supposed to feel when this is posted on all the papers, in french, as charlie should have expected if they are no e as clever as they think

meeeeh

Offense is not good enough excuse for something not to be printed. And media shouldn't be afraid to post something just because it might offend unless it constitutes hate speech, which those cartoons don't.

melissak

meeeeh wrote: »

Offense is not good enough excuse for something not to be printed. And media shouldn't be afraid to post something just because it might offend unless it constitutes hate speech, which those cartoons don't.

To me, given the back story here, it does constitute hate speech, hiding behind the veil of what i meant was, if you were smarter youd get it cowardice. I didn't say they shouldn't have been allowed to print it. People have the right to free speech, supposedly. This thers have the right to take it so badly they shoot you. Obviously they don't have the right to get away with murder, but they have the right to way up the prospect of imprisonment and decide if it is worth that. I have the right to say, if it happens, je no suis pas charlie. In my opinion charlie is a dick.

Amirani

melissak wrote: »

To me, given the back story here, it does constitute hate speech, hiding behind the veil of what i meant was, if you were smarter youd get it cowardice. I didn't say they shouldn't have been allowed to print it. People have the right to free speech, supposedly. This thers have the right to take it so badly they shoot you. Obviously they don't have the right to get away with murder, but they have the right to way up the prospect of imprisonment and decide if it is worth that. I have the right to say, if it happens, je no suis pas charlie. In my opinion charlie is a dick.

Hate speech? Are you serious?

meeeeh

It's not hate speech, it's a satirical comment on a refugee situation using the image that was plastered all over media. It might be insensitive but it is not hate speech. And nothing justifies the killings this summer. Are you suggesting we should change our right to free speech or any other rights, so we don't provoke some religious nutjobs?

kunst nugget

melissak wrote: »

To me, given the back story here, it does constitute hate speech, hiding behind the veil of what i meant was, if you were smarter youd get it cowardice. I didn't say they shouldn't have been allowed to print it. People have the right to free speech, supposedly. This thers have the right to take it so badly they shoot you. Obviously they don't have the right to get away with murder, but they have the right to way up the prospect of imprisonment and decide if it is worth that. I have the right to say, if it happens, je no suis pas charlie. In my opinion charlie is a dick.

Others have the right to take it so badly they shoot you?

So you're alright with someone being murdered over a cartoon that the murderer deemed offensive as long as they weighed up the options and decided they were happy to go to prison over it? Jesus…

Lollipops23

I've never found Charlie Hedbo to be funny, but that's not the point. Dark satire is dark satire- what I might be howling with laughter at might be deemed totally inappropriate and unfunny to someone else.

Qualitymark

Charlie Hebdo's humour is always aimed upwards at the powerful, not downwards at the powerless.

amandstu

melissak wrote: »

To me, given the back story here, it does constitute hate speech, hiding behind the veil of what i meant was, if you were smarter youd get it cowardice. I didn't say they shouldn't have been allowed to print it. People have the right to free speech, supposedly. This thers have the right to take it so badly they shoot you. Obviously they don't have the right to get away with murder, but they have the right to way up the prospect of imprisonment and decide if it is worth that. I have the right to say, if it happens, je no suis pas charlie. In my opinion charlie is a dick.

reported.

melissak

kunst nugget wrote: »

Others have the right to take it so badly they shoot you?

So you're alright with someone being murdered over a cartoon that the murderer deemed offensive as long as they weighed up the options and decided they were happy to go to prison over it? Jesus…

How, without thought policing or magical powers would we stop them? Do you have any idea how many people, who could have provoked or prevented nothing, died in syria the day of the charlie murders, or yesterday, or everyday in between? Is their right to continue to exist less valid than charlies right to insult. Where was their solidarity marches and je suis syrian bracelets. Actions have consequences. People have the right to do a lot of things we don't do because we would be dicks to do them. I reserve my sympathy for more innocent people. People die horribly every day. I don't have time to think of them all.

melissak

Qualitymark wrote: »

Charlie Hebdo's humour is always aimed upwards at the powerful, not downwards at the powerless.

Of course it is.....In the same way that france et al s war machine is aimed at isis and kills innocents

melissak

Yeah ok. How would we take that right from them. I didn't say they had the right to get away with it. Or that it would be the right thing to do. I specificially said it wouldn't. I didn't shoot them nor would i, i value my freedom and don't care enough. But well done you, tell the teacher. I guess my right to free speech is invalidated because you disagree.

amandstu wrote: »

reported.

kunst nugget

melissak wrote: »

How, without thought policing or magical powers would we stop them? Do you have any idea how many people, who could have provoked or prevented nothing, died in syria the day of the charlie murders, or yesterday, or everyday in between? Is their right to continue to exist less valid than charlies right to insult. Where was their solidarity marches and je suis syrian bracelets. Actions have consequences. People have the right to do a lot of things we don't do because we would be dicks to do them. I reserve my sympathy for more innocent people. People die horribly every day. I don't have time to think of them all.

I'm genuinely at a loss to know what point you're making. I don't know why you're trying to make a connection between a Syrian person's right to life and Charlie Hebdo producing satire.

kunst nugget

melissak wrote: »

Of course it is.....In the same way that france et al s war machine is aimed at isis and kills innocents

Charlie Hebdo aren't in league with the French government - they've spent most of their time pointing out the hypocrisies of French society and government policy.

melissak

kunst nugget wrote: »

I'm genuinely at a loss to know what point you're making. I don't know why you're trying to make a connection between a Syrian person's right to life and Charlie Hebsdo producing satire.

Sorry. Maybe i havent explained. Right now france is bombing syria. A frenxh craprag that has a long history of insulting muslims released a cartoon that said christians walk on water, muslim kids die over a picture of a dead syrian xhild at a time wben syrian refuhees are entering france.

melissak

kunst nugget wrote: »

Charlie Hebdo aren't in league with the French government - they've spent most of their time pointing out the hypocrisies of French society and government policy.

I didn't say they were. I was drawing a paralell. I have conspiracy theory but I keep them off boards as a rule.

kunst nugget

melissak wrote: »

Sorry. Maybe i havent explained. Right now france is bombing syria. A frenxh craprag that has a long history of insulting muslims released a cartoon that said christians walk on water, muslim kids die over a picture of a dead syrian xhild at a time wben syrian refuhees are entering france.

It has a long history of insulting everyone and it's obvious from both cartoons that their targets are the West and it's reaction to the refugee crisis and not Muslims.

Ave Sodalis

melissak wrote: »

Sorry. Maybe i havent explained. Right now france is bombing syria. A frenxh craprag that has a long history of insulting muslims released a cartoon that said christians walk on water, muslim kids die over a picture of a dead syrian xhild at a time wben syrian refuhees are entering france.

They have a long history of producing cartoons about any injustice, it's only been Muslim extremists that have taken such an offence to it. Charlie Hebdo aren't bombing Syria. If anything, that cartoon is making a mockery of how people believe Christians are more important than Muslims.

kunst nugget

melissak wrote: »

I didn't say they were. I was drawing a paralell. I have conspiracy theory but I keep them off boards as a rule.

Ah, no. Let us know what is really going on.

melissak

Amirani wrote: »

Hate speech? Are you serious?

Sorry. You are right. Nit hate speech. Images designed to convey and provoke hate

melissak

kunst nugget wrote: »

Ah, no. Let us know what is really going on.

No. I can't find my tinfoil hat.

melissak

sup_dude wrote: »

They have a long history of producing cartoons about any injustice, it's only been Muslim extremists that have taken such an offence to it. Charlie Hebdo aren't bombing Syria. If anything, that cartoon is making a mockery of how people believe Christians are more important than Muslims.

You see It That way. I don't.

Ave Sodalis

melissak wrote: »

You see It That way. I don't.

I've noticed. To be honest, the only conclusion I can come to is that you're determined to be offended and outraged, regardless of what's said.

melissak

sup_dude wrote: »

I've noticed. To be honest, the only conclusion I can come back to is that you're determined to be offended and outraged, regardless of what's said.

How do yoy figure. I said i an not offended as i am not a Muslim or syrian in france. I think charlie are horrible sneaky people. What about your counter outrage

Qualitymark

melissak wrote: »

Sorry. Maybe i havent explained. Right now france is bombing syria. A frenxh craprag that has a long history of insulting muslims released a cartoon that said christians walk on water, muslim kids die over a picture of a dead syrian xhild at a time wben syrian refuhees are entering france.

The cartoon showing Christ walking on water was pointing out the hypocrisy of Christians, who might as well be saying "Us, we're drownproof" while scolding Muslim refugees for fleeing a war and trying to settle in their country.

Charlie Hebdo is deeply brave for the way that it tackles the visceral anti-Muslimism of many French people, which has been growing ever since the country lost its Algerian colony.

melissak

Qualitymark wrote: »

The cartoon showing Christ walking on water was pointing out the hypocrisy of Christians, who might as well be saying "Us, we're drownproof" while scolding Muslim refugees for fleeing a war and trying to settle in their country.

Charlie Hebdo is deeply brave for the way that it tackles the visceral anti-Muslimism of many French people, which has been growing ever since the country lost its Algerian colony.

What do you call those black and white pictures where if you look at the. Black you see one picture and when you look at the White you see another, like the one with tge young woman and old woman. This is what i think this is. Both pictures are there and both are intentionl a
Whilst this is cclever. To me it is not brave.

kunst nugget

melissak wrote: »

What do you call those black and white pictures where if you look at the. Black you see one picture and when you look at the White you see another, like the one with tge young woman and old woman. This is what i think this is. Both pictures are there and both are intentionl a
Whilst this is cclever. To me it is not brave.

It's not an optical illusion at all. It's stripping away the artifice to starkly show us the hypocrisy of Western attitudes. You might find it distasteful but it's a hell of a lot less distasteful than what I've read on various threads here or what I've heard people saying over the last couple of weeks in relation to the refugee crisis.

melissak

kunst nugget wrote: »

It's not an optical illusion at all. It's stripping away the artifice to starkly show us the hypocrisy of Western attitudes. You might find it distasteful but it's a hell of a lot less distasteful than what I've read on various threads here or what I've heard people saying over the last couple of weeks in relation to the refugee crisis.

But surely you can see that to the syrians who are arriving in that country, that is funding the misery and is openly hostile to them might not get the joke

Insect Overlord

melissak wrote: »

But surely you can see that to the syrians who are arriving in that country, that is funding the misery and is openly hostile to them might not get the joke

They'll hardly be spending their precious cash on a satirical magazine, in fairness.